Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1376
Todd S. Civil Disobedience is a right guaranteed to all US citizens.It is one of the freedoms that many men and women have died for in the last 200+ years. Another right or freedom that we enjoy as Americans is the right to go about our business, do our job, support our family, etc. as long as we do not interfere with another citizens rights. Perhaps you are forgetting just exactly what Civil Disobedience is?The US Constitution (and the judicial systems interpretation) gives you plenty of freedom to express your opinions in many different ways on almost any subject you choose as long as you don't break the law in the process. If you do something illegal then you have infringed on another's right to freedom and it is no longer CIVIL Disobedience. It is plain to see that you, and others, seem to think that because you don't care to wait for the civilized process to work you feel that gives you the right to break the law!! You are entitled to work within the legal system to change the law if you so choose. You are NOT entitled to simply ignore (break) the law because you don't agree with it and don't want to take the time and make the effort to change it. It is also plain to see that you, and others, have a great distrust for the US legal system and the US government. I am also concerned about our government and legal system. I do not simply follow blindly along thinking that whatever the government does is to my best interest and they must know better than I do! Even though I share your disgust for SOME of the actions taken by our government and legal system I hold in high regard our democratic system. We in the US live under laws that give us many freedoms that are not enjoyed by a lot of people in other countries. If we, as individuals, were to have the right to choose which laws we would live by and which ones we would not we would no longer have a civilized society. As citizens of the US we have choices. We can choose to live here and abide by the law enjoying the freedom to change those same laws if we choose. We also have the choice of not abiding by the law and excepting the consequences. A third choice is moving to another less civilized country. Personally, I choose to stay in the US and try to make our country a better place to live without compromising your freedoms in the process. Assuming you are a resident citizen of the US, which choice do you make? Phil Hartman - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:59 PM Subject: [biofuel] Digest Number 1376 > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > There are 25 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: organic solar cells >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 2. RE: Latest from my Pal >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 3. Re: good oil crops for England >From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 4. RE: good oil crops for England >From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 5. U.S. Special Operations Units Already in Iraq >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 6. Re: We need Trolls. RE: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: The oil in Iraq >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 7. Re: Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways >From: kavitha palaniappan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 8. Re: Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq >From: Gary Rempel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 9. Re: good oil crops for England >From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 10. Re: Re: Hog Snot!!! >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 11. Re: Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 12. Re: Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 13. Re: Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways >From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 14. Imperial >From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 15. Chokecherries >From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 16. Behind the Great Divide >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 17. RE: Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq >From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 18. PBS - The War Behind Closed Doors >From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 19. Re: Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq >From: "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 20. Re: Chokecherries >From: "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 21. Re: O
More Hog Snozzle!!! was Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1376
And just specifically what is it Phil that makes you think that "perhaps [I] am forgetting just exactly what Civil Disobedience is?" Quite the contrary. What is actually quite "plain to see" is that you are not exactly familiar with the term, nor how or why it is implemented. No different than Greg, civil disobedience is "okay," as long as no one is "disobedient." You state right up front that it "is a right guaranteed to all US citizens. (Not quite sure where you get that chapter and verse, but it is a moral and principle right of every person on the planet.)Yet you continue with declaration that enacting that "right" is wrong, as well as the blatant overly general implication that anyone who is civilly disobedient is pretty well akin to an anarchist taking up molotovs and rocks. Again, no different than Greg, you relay several of the exact same disconnects, generalities, vagueries and pretty much flat out distortions as a result of your all encompassing blanket approach. "Yessireee!!! If Joe Donut has to waste the first breath on someone being civily disobedient, we oughta' lock 'em up for contributin' to terrorism!!!" Well Rosa Parks, save a seat for me on your side of the paddy wagon. Hell, between civilly disobedient "supporters of terrorism," "commies, pinkos and fags," there ain't no room for "honest, upstandin white folks" anymore. Frankly sir, you miss the point and purpose of civil disobedience entirely. I can only hope that you are not in charge of any classroom where civics is taught. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Phil Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1376 > Todd S. > Civil Disobedience is a right guaranteed to all US citizens.It is > one of the freedoms that many men and women have died for in the last 200+ > years. Another right or freedom that we enjoy as Americans is the right to > go about our business, do our job, support our family, etc. as long as we do > not interfere with another citizens rights. Perhaps you are forgetting > just exactly what Civil Disobedience is?The US Constitution (and the > judicial systems interpretation) gives you plenty of freedom to express > your opinions in many different ways on almost any subject you choose as > long as you don't break the law in the process. If you do something illegal > then you have infringed on another's right to freedom and it is no longer > CIVIL Disobedience. It is plain to see that you, and others, seem to think > that because you don't care to wait for the civilized process to work you > feel that gives you the right to break the law!! > You are entitled to work within the legal system to change the law if you so > choose. You are NOT entitled to simply ignore (break) the law because you > don't agree with it and don't want to take the time and make the effort to > change it. It is also plain to see that you, and others, have a great > distrust for the US legal system and the US government. I am also concerned > about our government and legal system. I do not simply follow blindly along > thinking that whatever the government does is to my best interest and they > must know better than I do! Even though I share your disgust for SOME > of the actions taken by our government and legal system I hold in high > regard our democratic system. We in the US live under laws that give us > many freedoms that are not enjoyed by a lot of people in other countries. > If we, as individuals, were to have the right to choose which laws we would > live by and which ones we would not we would no longer have a civilized > society. As citizens of the US we have choices. We can choose to live > here and abide by the law enjoying the freedom to change those same laws if > we choose. We also have the choice of not abiding by the law and excepting > the consequences. > A third choice is moving to another less civilized country. Personally, I > choose to stay in the US and try to make our country a better place to live > without compromising your freedoms in the process. Assuming you are a > resident citizen of the US, which choice do you make? >Phil Hartman > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:59 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Digest Number 1376 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > There are 25 messages in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Re: organic solar cells > >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > 2. RE: Latest from my Pal > >From: Keith Addison
[biofuel] w32.opaserve.worm
Keith and all list members: Last week a virus slipped through and took up residence on my primary drive. It was "contracted" by the simple act of hitting a "contact" link on an internet service provider's web site and was first noted (among a few other things) by the continual upload of information while connected to the internet, even though no net related tasks were being performed. As well, due to the worm's changes in the registry, conflicts began to arise with software and hardware applications. This worm permits unauthorized access to a person's computer and/or network through a flaw in MS password protection and affects Win 95, 98, 98SE and/or ME operating systems. In the past week I've noticed one or two peculiar messages that came through Biofuel (one was E-bay related requesting to be taken off of the mailing list) that might indicate that this virus may have jumped a few people who run these MS systems. In any event, should anyone find that they have this virus, the specifics, the removal tool and the instructions for the tool can be found at http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.opaserv.worm.html There is also a MS patch that has to be installed prior to running the removal tool. Information about it can be found at the same Symantec link above and the patch can be located via this link http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS00-072.asp More information can be found at http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.opaserv.g.worm.html http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=WORM_OPASERV.G&VSect=T http://www.fortinet.com/Vir-Desc/W32/opaserv-g.htm with references to several other files applicable to the virus There are 4 or 5 files that are specifically identifiable with this worm and/or one of its several variants, one of the primaries being MARCO!.SCR However, one or two of the affected files are requisite for Windoze operations, even though they have been overwritten by the virus and corrupted. SHOULD ANY OF THE FILES REFERRED TO IN THE HOT LINKS ABOVE BE FOUND, THEY SHOULD NOT (THAT'S SHOULD NOT!) BE REMOVED INDIVIDUALLY THEY SHOULD ONLY BE REMOVED WITH A VIRUS TOOL SUCH AS THE SYMANTEC LINK ABOVE!!! Also, the particular removal tool above does not necessarily remove all of the participatory files. The end result of the first two applications of the tool yielded "4 deleted files, 3 viral processes terminated, 2 registry entries fixed." Yet a few of the files related to the virus are still "present," apparently in a disabled condition on the root drive. No matter here I suppose (glibly spoken) as the drive is soon to be reformatted. But others who might suffer through this process may need to be aware of the residual files and care to search further as to the appropriate method of their removal, or if they should be removed. Apologies should anyone have been affected by this. The story behind it is a lot more gruesome than any could possibly imaginewell all but a few people anyway. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] From my Pal
Just so you recognize there are counter views in the US I thought you might like the following. By US Senator Robert Byrd Senate Floor Speech Wednesday, February 12, 2003 To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war. Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent -- ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war.Ê There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events.Ê Only on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion of the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world. This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The doctrine of preemption -- the idea that the United States or any other nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently threatening but may be threatening in the future -- is a radical new twist on the traditional idea of self-defense. It appears to be in contravention of international law and the UN Charter. And it is being tested at a time of world-wide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if they will soon be on our -- or some other nation's -- hit list. High level Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of the table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in a world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in our time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, misinformation, suspicion, and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which existed after September 11. Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with little guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members are being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher. This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. In that scant two years, this Administration has squandered a large projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This administration's domestic policy has put many of our states in dire financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous borders. In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin Laden. In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his forces and urging them to kill. This Administration has split traditional alliances, possibly crippling, for all time, International order-keeping entities like the United Nations and NATO. This Administration has called into question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as well- intentioned, peacekeeper. This Administration has turned the patient art of diplomacy into threats, labeling, and name calling of the sort that reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our leaders, and which will have consequences for years to come. Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant -- these types of crude insensitivities can do our great nation no good.Ê We may have massive military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our awesome military ma
Re: [biofuel] Troubled Times Slow Charge
Hi Kris Please don't get me wrong - I don't mind committing the unforgiveable and saying it's probably just a matter of time till somebody solves the free energy puzzle one way or another. I've said something like that here before a couple of times, despite the ominous silence that ensued. On the other hand, most of the claims we've seen merit more scepticism than anything else, and that seems to have been well-founded so far, none of them has come to anything. (Yet.) I'm also somewhat sceptical of imminent cataclysmic events as a reason for getting into appropriate technology - cataclysms or no, it doesn't need such "reasons", it stands on its own well enough, whether in 3rd World countries or developed nations. I don't take a narrow view of what's on topic when it comes to biofuels, nor that is should necessarily be "ready-for-use" technology that's discussed. That's Hakan's focus for instance at his excellent website, and indeed ours at Journey to Forever, for obvious reasons. But here we can be much more wide-ranging. But we can really do without stuff like Zeta, definitely without Dennis Lee, and without magnets. Just as long as you're aware of that. Anfd you are. So no problem. Still worth saying soi for others here who might not be aware of it though. regards Keith >Well Keith, I got a whole diferent view of that web site. I >just spent a couple of hours there but, I didn't click on >any of the Zeta info, because I read that stuff years ago. >What I saw was a group of young guys, probably a lot like >you and me at that age, who are not running around >screaming that the sky is falling but, are trying to put >their thinking caps on now, so they will have accumulated >the knowledge necessary to rebuild after a cataclysmic >event. > >Granted these guys are associating with the scam artists at >Zeta but, I didn't see anything really wrong with their >message except that Planet X is do to visit in the next 75 >days or so. I'm not sure why I spend 2 or 3 hours almost >everyday reading about all kinds of strange subjects but, >something tells me to keep searching for any info that may >be of help when the shit hits the fan. > >I'm not sure if the boogie man is economic collapse, WWIII, >NWO, a pole shift, major earthquakes, or whatever but, I am >convinced that it is time to accumlate as much knowledge as >possible, so my kids have as good a chance at a decent life >as I did. I admit to spending too much time looking at free >energy sites but, I am convinced that one day humans will >overcome their lack of a good clean fuel that will take >them to the stars, and that means over unity. > >I don't see free energy as much different than folks felt >about Thomas Edison or the Wright Bros., before they proved >their theories were fact. And some day real soon all of the >nay sayers will change their tune and will never again be >so unwilling to try and give someone the benefit of the >doubt on controversial subjects. > >I know that people like Dennis Lee have done untold harm >with their scams but, I'm confident that most of these >folks are trying to whip ass on the power brokers just like >the rest of us. And I know that there have always been >doomsayers predicting the end of civilization but, there >have never been so many warning signs of civic collapse as >we have had lately. > >kris > > > >--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > krisbook wrote: > > > > >This link will take you to a site that tells you how to > > charge a large > > >deep cycle battery every two or three days without the > > use of a > > >generator, solar panel, or even a hand crank. This > > technique uses static > > >electricity to recharge batteries. > > > > Hm, maybe. > > > > >There is a lot of good info at this > > >site, spend some time reading about a lot of interesting > > subjects. Just > > >click on "The Hub" at the bottom of the page. > > > http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengx084.htm > > > > Um... > > > > >Troubled Times believes that a world-wide cataclysm, of > > massive > > >proportions, will strike the Earth in the year 2003. The > > cause of > > >this natural event will be a monster planet, known to > > the ancients > > >but as yet undiscovered by modern man, which will pass > > very near the > > >earth as part of its normal 3,600 year orbit around the > > sun. > > > > We've had it here before Kris - the pole shift etc. "Good > > info" it ain't. > > > > Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] organic solar cells
When you consider the framed solar panels, they are rigid. And installation seem to be redundant, that you will need a racking system or tracker. With organic solar film, like I'm reading one of my dream! One day the application will be like a paint that you can paint on any surfaces. Transparent or colored solar film in many colors for you to choose! So when you are painting your houses/cars, which we all have to. You are building your solar system. And the price will be only 1/10 of the current price? That is even better! It's such a happy thought and good news! Thanks a lot! Now we will search and see if could find information about the molecular structure of this organic solar cell. .- Original Message - From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] organic solar cells > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:08:40 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > > > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storyprint.cfm?storyID=3101056 > > > > Thanks for the info. I hope if works out for them. Over the years I've heard > allusions to the energy intensity and waste-disposal problems of present forms > of PV manufacturing, so maybe this material (I think that's what it is) will be > better in those areas as well as having other potentials. > > The negotiations with the cell phone manufacturer sounded interesting. > Development of power solutions for small devices is an interesting field. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? (I may retire earlier to start my own farm, if these are the star crops for the future!) So why don't you? The growing demand of BioFuel and the corns and Soy beans are not the best sources for biofuel? Seem to be a simple solution but did I miss anything? Instead of asking for the government to keep on funding, maybe if the farmers switching to the higher yield crops. Then we will see some Farmer Tycoons over those oil Tycoons? - Original Message - From: "Neoteric Biofuels Inc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England > They do. More oil per acre than African oil palms, apparently, and a > LOT of pulp for ethanol - and they smell nice too? Bonus. The bees > prolly love 'em. > > Edward Beggs > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:14 AM, kirk wrote: > > > I don't think of chokecherries as bearing much. > > The blossoms are one of the lovliest scents in the world. > > Truly exquisite. > > > > Kirk > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] more on the rising cost of fuel
>SNIP< >Joe: >International engine is casting a 6 cylinder diesel engine for the Ford >motor company. It is a cut down version of the 8 cylinder diesel engine >now used in the F-250 and F-350 trucks. The new smaller version diesel is >slated for the so called SUV vehicles. I was not told when they are to be >released, but it is coming.> >Harley Harley, GM is also going to release a V6 version of the Duramax. I don't know when this is coming out either. Blessings. Joe :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol in Australia.
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:38, you wrote: > Hi Guys, > Best Biodiesel site I have seen on the net. > I am about to trial my fist batch of BD, but was surprised by the cost > of methanol in AUS. As I am starting small, I am going to purchase a 20 > litre drum of methanol. > I was surprised it cost AUS$46 for 20L. To make DB with 20% meth does > not seem very cost effective to start with.(46cents + per litre) > My question to any AUS biodiesel makers is "Where do you purchase cheap > Methanol and how much" > > Regards > > bradt Methanol is about $220/200L. Available most fuel Depots. Smaller quantities lways cost more. regards Doug PS Where RU? (I live on N Rivers, N NSW) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
The reasons are many: The markets are probably not in place The processing is not in place Farmers have the equipment and knowledge to grow and harvest corn, wheat soya etc. They will not commit their large farms to a crop which they do not know how to grow, harvest and sell. The claims for yields are probably based on research with trial plots and the yields from growing them in real conditions with pests and diseases that will get bigger as the crops get bigger are much lower. I'll take the example of hemp grown in the UK - it is a wonder crop, amazing yield, needs little fertiliser and chemicals as it grows so fast. Amazing tough fibre, seed can be used for biodiesel etc. But how much is grown. Around 2500 ha. even with a subsidy of around £500/ha. Why - because it is a bastard to harvest and the yields are much lower than the researchers quote, and hence the returns are lower. There is a small demand for it but a UK company has been working very hard for years to promote the crop, and their main market was/is the hurds used for horse bedding. What are chokeberries. Is it April 1st. Rob -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 February 2003 11:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? (I may retire earlier to start my own farm, if these are the star crops for the future!) So why don't you? The growing demand of BioFuel and the corns and Soy beans are not the best sources for biofuel? Seem to be a simple solution but did I miss anything? Instead of asking for the government to keep on funding, maybe if the farmers switching to the higher yield crops. Then we will see some Farmer Tycoons over those oil Tycoons? - Original Message - From: "Neoteric Biofuels Inc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England > They do. More oil per acre than African oil palms, apparently, and a > LOT of pulp for ethanol - and they smell nice too? Bonus. The bees > prolly love 'em. > > Edward Beggs > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:14 AM, kirk wrote: > > > I don't think of chokecherries as bearing much. > > The blossoms are one of the lovliest scents in the world. > > Truly exquisite. > > > > Kirk > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Behind the Great Divide
Keith: Interesting Article. It is hard to believe the line "the "liberal" U.S. media are strikingly conservative - and in this case hawkish.". The US news media is so liberal, that it is hard to think of them in any other way. I am not swayed over, but my perspective has changed a little. Harley -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:41 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Behind the Great Divide A bit weak, especially for Krugman... but it's a start, maybe about the maximum-sized bite the average cable-viewer could chew on without choking. Keith http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/opinion/18KRUG.html Behind the Great Divide By PAUL KRUGMAN There has been much speculation why Europe and the U.S. are suddenly at such odds. Is it about culture? About history? But I haven't seen much discussion of an obvious point: We have different views partly because we see different news. Let's back up. Many Americans now blame France for the chill in U.S.-European relations. There is even talk of boycotting French products. But France's attitude isn't exceptional. Last Saturday's huge demonstrations confirmed polls that show deep distrust of the Bush administration and skepticism about an Iraq war in all major European nations, whatever position their governments may take. In fact, the biggest demonstrations were in countries whose governments are supporting the Bush administration. There were big demonstrations in America too. But distrust of the U.S. overseas has reached such a level, even among our British allies, that a recent British poll ranked the U.S. as the world's most dangerous nation - ahead of North Korea and Iraq. So why don't other countries see the world the way we do? News coverage is a large part of the answer. Eric Alterman's new book, "What Liberal Media?" doesn't stress international comparisons, but the difference between the news reports Americans and Europeans see is a stark demonstration of his point. At least compared with their foreign counterparts, the "liberal" U.S. media are strikingly conservative - and in this case hawkish. I'm not mainly talking about the print media. There are differences, but the major national newspapers in the U.S. and the U.K. at least seem to be describing the same reality. Most people, though, get their news from TV - and there the difference is immense. The coverage of Saturday's antiwar rallies was a reminder of the extent to which U.S. cable news, in particular, seems to be reporting about a different planet than the one covered by foreign media. What would someone watching cable news have seen? On Saturday, news anchors on Fox described the demonstrators in New York as "the usual protesters" or "serial protesters." CNN wasn't quite so dismissive, but on Sunday morning the headline on the network's Web site read "Antiwar rallies delight Iraq," and the accompanying picture showed marchers in Baghdad, not London or New York. This wasn't at all the way the rest of the world's media reported Saturday's events, but it wasn't out of character. For months both major U.S. cable news networks have acted as if the decision to invade Iraq has already been made, and have in effect seen it as their job to prepare the American public for the coming war. So it's not surprising that the target audience is a bit blurry about the distinction between the Iraqi regime and Al Qaeda. Surveys show that a majority of Americans think that some or all of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi, while many believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11, a claim even the Bush administration has never made. And since many Americans think that the need for a war against Saddam is obvious, they think that Europeans who won't go along are cowards. Europeans, who don't see the same things on TV, are far more inclined to wonder why Iraq - rather than North Korea, or for that matter Al Qaeda - has become the focus of U.S. policy. That's why so many of them question American motives, suspecting that it's all about oil or that the administration is simply picking on a convenient enemy it knows it can defeat. They don't see opposition to an Iraq war as cowardice; they see it as courage, a matter of standing up to the bullying Bush administration. There are two possible explanations for the great trans-Atlantic media divide. One is that European media have a pervasive anti-American bias that leads them to distort the news, even in countries like the U.K. where the leaders of both major parties are pro-Bush and support an attack on Iraq. The other is that some U.S. media outlets - operating in an environment in which anyone who questions the administration's foreign policy is accused of being unpatriotic - have taken it as their assignment t
RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Chokecherries are a shrub. Takes a few years before they would bear fruit. Also I don't know any nursery that sells them. They grow wild in ravines. That means they need more water than the average field. Lots of chokecheeries near streams. Not as near as willows but close. Kirk -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:58 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? (I may retire earlier to start my own farm, if these are the star crops for the future!) So why don't you? The growing demand of BioFuel and the corns and Soy beans are not the best sources for biofuel? Seem to be a simple solution but did I miss anything? Instead of asking for the government to keep on funding, maybe if the farmers switching to the higher yield crops. Then we will see some Farmer Tycoons over those oil Tycoons? - Original Message - From: "Neoteric Biofuels Inc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England > They do. More oil per acre than African oil palms, apparently, and a > LOT of pulp for ethanol - and they smell nice too? Bonus. The bees > prolly love 'em. > > Edward Beggs > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:14 AM, kirk wrote: > > > I don't think of chokecherries as bearing much. > > The blossoms are one of the lovliest scents in the world. > > Truly exquisite. > > > > Kirk > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal
Hello Harley It's odd, but actually you haven't responded to my message at all. Are you aware of that? >Keith: > >I was using the 70 % rating that was being used by the US TV news media. Yes, quite... and you haven't noticed what's being said about *them* because you either don't read or simply discount a lot of the "political" posts. >I >keep forgetting this site is world wide. Uh-huh. So is the Internet. So is the biofuels revolution. So is humanity. So are the anti-war protests. (And it's not a "site" it's an email discussion group. No, I'm not just being picky - "sites" are passive, like TV, discussion groups are interactive, you get to be on-screen yourself.) >The 70% was taken from poles done >here in the USA. Again, yes, quite... Part of the same phenomenon. Who do you think pays for these polls? They're just a public service, you think, paid for through pure generosity of spirit? They're part of the PR spin machine, and they're conducted for major corporate and othger clients; what the media gets is a spin-off. And we all know about paying the piper. For instance (there are plenty more f'rinstances): http://www.retropoll.org/press_releases.htm October 17, 2002 Polling Organization Sets Sights on Government-Media Disinformation - Poll results suggest public opinion polls don't reflect public's views >The TV news media did show the anti-war rallies in New >York, and England, and France. The protests Anti-war, Anti-American, >Anti-Bush. and Anti-anything is becoming Anti-Bush. Yes, as one of the "political" posts you didn't read said - if you'd read it, and some of the others, you might also have realized what they didn't show, and why that might be. >My view as in the past >is very Pro-Bush. He is day to night compared to Bill Clinton. Bush picks >a point of view and sticks to it. Remember someone has to balance out, some >of the Liberals. Uh, yes, I'll try to remember that... (I think). >I am glad to hear that Jame's pal is British. I understand you are leaving >political discussions on this site, but it is off subject. Harley, I think you're a classic case of the now-famous figure who says "Let's cut all this political crap and talk about biodiesel" - but it turns out "political crap" simply means "stuff I don't agree with". I'd say that most people in the world, let alone this list, would regard these discussions about Iraq and oil as very much on-topic here. But for (yes!) a not-very-big minority of thoroughly spun folks in the US of A. >It is >interesting when a Bio Diesel subject actually comes up. Do me a favour, Harley - count them. In fact this isn't a "Biodiesel" list, it's a Biofuels list. At the moment there's a lot, much more than usual, of what you'd call off-topic posts that others think are on-topic, but even so, taking your view of it, more than two-thirds of the posts in the last three days are about biofuels issues - more than that if you take closely related subjects, like the rising cost of gasoline in the US (making biodiesel more cost-competitive, right?). So I'm afraid you're talking nonsense. >To answer your >question dealing about feeling special, actually no. I didn't say anything about feeling special, what are you talking about? >As an American, I >don't feel special. As an American I feel lucky. The US is a great place >to live. The American Society is far from perfect, but I believe it is >better than most. Fine, yes, okay, that's very nice, nobody's arguing... but so what? Hakan's nodding right now I bet, and quite a few others - why do you think that opposing the war in Iraq is being anti-American? I keep asking this, but you don't read those posts, nor the answers, nor the comments from others. So you remain in the dark, tilting at windmills. >$135 billion spent on PR, and advertising. I would consider the monies was >used to sell products or services. Slumber on, Harley. http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html PR Watch, vol. 9, no. 4: War is Sell War Is Sell http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14877 A Lesson In U.S. Propaganda http://home.earthlink.net/~dbjensen1/stauber.html War On Truth The Secret Battle for the American Mind An Interview with John Stauber There's lots of this stuff in the archives, but you don't read it, you'd rather not have your views challenged, methinks - and they're not even *your* views, you just think they are. And no, it's not off-topic, the big energy interests are right in there with the megabucks manufacturing consent and people's beliefs to suit their book (and doing it right from the Oval Office these days). >Or are you saying that all that money >was spent just to convince me that this is a great country. They did not >need to do that on my behalf. Seriously, if I believed everything that is >print on this site, about Bush. There's not much opinion, it's mostly reports, studies, well-referenced stuff. If you don't agree, then you can co
[biofuel] biofuel for a d90
hello, > >i have been researching running my 1997 defender 90 on biofuel. the >diesel conversion is a bit too pricey for me so i have been >investigating ethanol. i was talking to biofuel pioneer David Blume >who told me that my 3.9L V8 could run ethanol just by upgrading a >computer chip that would compensate for the correct fuel injection >(apparently performance car people do this all the time). do you >know anything about this? if not what are my options. I would most >like to do the diesel conversion with a used 300 tdi (so i could run >vegetable oil), preferably by selling my existing engine, but only >if it could happen for a modest price (east coast rovers wanted 30K >for a complete conversion...yikes!). i am open to all options and >was curious to see what you had to say. this project is intended to >raise awareness about biofuels and show suv owners that there ARE >OPTIONS. i live in santa cruz, CA and David Blume is working on a >biofuel station that would be built in soquel, ca...a few miles >south of santa cruz. any information would be greatly appreciated. >thanks for your time and i look forward to hearing from you. >josh cohen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Myles Twete, home heating
Hi again Myles, I know that you installed the Hago and looked at your page for updates. How is it going? Hakan At 02:26 AM 2/9/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Myles, > >I looked at your web page and found it very interesting, you are >obviously going through the phases. I am working on information >on using biofuels for heating purposes and would like to be able >to present such materials on my site. So, if you are interested, >we could expand your experiences and I would be happy to >publish it, with full credits of course. > >I did some further comments incorporated in your response, > >At 09:16 AM 2/8/2003 -0800, Myles Twete wrote: > >Hakan- > >Hakan- that was quite a dissertation for only being an intro on heating for > >boilers... but doesn't address the issues raised (seal leakages and cold BD > >coagulation in narrow nozzle tube)---interesting nonetheless. > >Maybe I should have gone into this deeper, but I am spoiled by the >audience on the biofuel list, that have a large experience of seal leakage >and pump problems in conversions of diesel engines. Rubber seals and >other sensitive materials are no-no for them. It does not really offer any >other solution than change to non-sensitive materials. The coagulation >problem is a design problem and again, it offers no other solutions than >preheating or an other design. > >Italy is a major supplier of burner products and therefore it is maybe >one explanation of their leading position in use of biodiesel for heating >purposes. In Italy and EU, the burner suppliers all have researched the >use of biodiesel or SVO. They either already have the products to sell or >are in the launching stage of them. > >The purpose with my posting was to give a general background and >understanding of what we were talking about. I thought that it could >serve as a positive background to your postings and enhance the >understanding of the importance of them. > >It is therefore interesting to hear about that the US "Chinese Wall" that is >obvious for diesel engines, seems to have a counterpart in the market >for heating products. It is amazing to find that products that are so easy >to get in EU, are so difficult to purchase in the US. > > > >In case you're curious, our fuel pressure, flame temperature, flame length > >and breadth in the furnace appear within a reasonably acceptable range to a > >noviceand combustion VASTLY better than ordinary heating oil with an > >ancient burner---which is what we had; our fuel pressure is the rated > >150psi; we have NO explosions or other negative artifacts; burner cycling is > >reasonable and much better than what we experienced with an ordinary > >inefficient burner using regular heating oil. We are currently using a > >0.65/70W Delavan nozzle. Monday I will tear the burner apart again, clean > >it, then install a Hago 0.65/70 nozzle with their "ecovalve". This should > >ABSOLUTELY STOP my nozzle drip cascade failure problem. Here's pictures and > >a summary of the findings thus far for the curious: > >http://home.teleport.com/~mylest/biodiesel/Biodiesel%20Home%20Heating%20Expe > >riences.htm > >I see that you are confirming my assumtions and have seen the necessity to >get to a efficient combustion. I am a little bit curious on what your >numbers are >concerning the lowering of nominal output. I have a feeling that my >estimates of >up to 30% lowering, might be over pessimistic. As I said before, your >experiences >are very valuable for many and deserves a wider audience. > > > >Since there are no heating oil suppliers or servicemen who know squat about > >biodiesel, I am 100% on my own in this project. Using design tables and all > >the techniques you mentioned or alluded to are really academic in this case. > >Of course, since you do not have such material developed for biodiesel. I >thought I made it clear that in my opinion it needed much more development. > > >The BD burns very clean until the nozzle drip leads to cloggin and reduced > >air flow. That is the problem I'm resolving---which takes a lot of work, > >since noone in town can supply me with Hago nozzles w/ecovalves and Hago > >didn't want to undercut their distributors (which only sell wholesale to > >companies)---in the end, Hago understood my predicament and has come to my > >rescue directly. > >Great to hear that a supplier are interested to help and are willing to make >exceptions on US policies, what ever they are. Hago deserves all credit for >that. > > > >With a friend's steamboat http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/NWSSBtor.htm, which > >uses a Bryan industrial watertube boiler, he uses a high pressure (175psi) > >pump and some 3-5gph. He burns 100% biodiesel also and has had his burner > >tuned up by the local Bryan serviceman at Proctor Sales. The serviceman had > >no trouble at all adjusting the burner airflow for optimal combustion > >w/biodiesel. He had never seen it burn before and was impressed with > >biodiesel. > >Such an industrial equipment woul
[biofuel] The Silent Take Over
Hi, I'm not sure if this book by Noreena Hertz is relevant to this group, but still want to recommend. I'm through 1/3 of the book, but it is great. Lot of things put together and how govts world over are joining hands (willingly or forced) with mutlinationals to exploit the commoner. An eye opener, don't know how long I can be on the wrong side of the fence.. Best Regards, Suresh. PS: Currently I live in USA and don't have TV at home. When I tell people no TV at home, they look at me as an alien from far away.. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
- Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 09:45 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > > On the one hand you issue terse condemnation against dirt > worshipin', bunny lovin' tree huggers and circumstances of which > you are largely unaware, yet on the other hand you state that it > may be necessary for you to conduct an act of civil disobedience > in the future as well - not okay with Greg on the one hand but > "okay" with Greg if it's his own hand. > I never said that. I have never, to my knowlage, ever said that an act of civil disobedience is never an option. > Where by your previous and present expressions you have equated > civil disobedience with terrorism, you now qualify civil > disobedience as occasionally being acceptable, even when in the > radical extreme such as John Brown. I never said that John Brown's actions were acceptable to me. While his motives were good, his actions were not. > > The extremisms expressed in your views are a bit incongruent. Not at all. > > By your standards, any activist who does not have "legal > standing" in a judicial matter is one who has "jumped on the > bandwagon" - an activity that you again are disdainful of. I never said that, again you pervert, what was said, and twist it for your own ends. What I said was, "Far to many times people jump on the civil disobedience band wagon, just to be there with out having done any other work, to resolve the issue." I try and clarify it for you. Many times people sit around doing nothing about a problem, they just sit there and get angry about things that are going on. They sit there, and sit there not doing a thing, then they explode into civil disobedience. They didn't seek recourse by legal means, they did nothing untill, they started breaking the law and / or civil code. This is were I have a problem with it. >By > your standards, Thoreau should have filed suit against the poll > tax and waited years for a ruling, even when the tax was but a > vehicle of his protest, not specifically what he was protesting. Did he attempt any other recourse before not paying the tax? > Attempting to establish a standard where people who "haven't done > the work" should have no right to their activism is not only > preposterous but once again a highly opinionated and overly > presumptive judgement. O.k. I'l put it in in different words. Civil disobedience, should always be the last thing to do, not the first. > > Only a select few have the right to enact civil disobedience? And > would it be you who is just the individual capable of determining > exactly who is and who is not acceptable to participate in such a > manner - on any matter? Again I will say it. It is my belief that anyone that engages in civil disobedience and law breaking, before they ( as indivduals ) seak other means of resolving the issue, should get what they recieve, as far as the courts are concerned. If they end up injured by police ( percieved to be on purpose ) in the process, then it is up to the courts to deciede if it was abuse or not. > > Two things that I find lacking in your expressions: 1) a lack of > understanding of critical mass, which seldom to never happens in > the nice, tidy and ever so orderly fashion that you would prefer > and 2) a largely void understanding of the disparity between our > judicial process, both its time lines and its metering of > "justice," and the natural world that you reside in. I know about critical mass, and about how slow the judicial process is, but, it does not in any way shape or form, remove indivdual responsability to seek lawful and legal means of recourse first. >Ecosystems > and human beings don't just get up out of their chair beyond the > dais and casually resume their previous existence after a judge > makes a pronouncement, least of all if they've been devastated, > destroyed or compromised in advance of or throughout the same > legal process. It's a re-growing process, that everyone and everything undergoes through from setbacks. > > And while you may expect that the rest of the world should simply > wait politely and quietly for the pen of a judge, legislator or > policy chief to sway in one direction or another, your > expectations are exaggerated and unrealistic in light of the > inequities, improprieties, injustices and other indiscriminate > spoilage that may be effected both prior to and after that same > pen having been taken up. I don't expect people to stand still, for they can be doing other legal things, in the mean time. > > Perhaps most telling of all is your following perception. > > > If any activists, by breaking the law, draw law enforcement > away from > > anti-terrorist activities, then yes indeed, they are supporting > terrorism. > > They may not be directly supporting terrorism, but, they are > supporting it > > none the less. > > So inequity and injustice should only be met with a pen, wielde
Re: [biofuel] The Silent Take Over
But of course! If one does not have or stayed glued to a boob tube, how can one be appropriately programmedI mean opinionated I mean ingrained I mean...well...you know what I mean... Hto Murdoch or not to MurdochTo Disney/AOL/Time Warner or not to Disney/AOL/Time Warnerthat is the question. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:47 PM Subject: [biofuel] The Silent Take Over > Hi, > > I'm not sure if this book by Noreena Hertz is relevant to this > group, but still want to recommend. I'm through 1/3 of the book, > but it is great. Lot of things put together and how govts world > over are joining hands (willingly or forced) with mutlinationals > to exploit the commoner. > > An eye opener, don't know how long I can be on the wrong side > of the fence.. > > Best Regards, > Suresh. > > PS: Currently I live in USA and don't have TV at home. When I tell > people no TV at home, they look at me as an alien from far away.. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Chokecherries
Sorry I missed the original post. Was there a link to some report or study on the seed's oil content? thanks. thor __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Chokecherries
I have done some checking and it actually is running around the same as Canola, not bad, but there is also a hunch on the part of the researcher that some of the wild varieties could quite possibly go higher than that. There are also a few other concerns in processing that need to be looked at. Anyway, it might be another promising feedstock. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 11:14 AM, Thor Skov wrote: > Sorry I missed the original post. Was there a link to > some report or study on the seed's oil content? > > thanks. > > thor > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
You're right Greg. Technically you never said specifically that. You only implied that it's the wrong option unless of course it has passed through a rationalization process acceptable by your standards, and then absolutely declared that people who do conduct acts of civil disobedience are tantamount to if not supporting terrorism if they draw one dram of energy away from the "war" on terrorism. Gee! I wonder what they were before "the war on terrorism" or before you classified them as supporters of terrorism? Protesters? Activists? Concerned mothers and fathers, sons and daughters? And I'm glad you got around to at least slightly better clarifying your position, as this > Again I will say it. It is my belief that anyone that engages in civil > disobedience and law breaking, before they ( as indivduals ) seak other > means of resolving the issue, should get what they recieve, as far as the > courts are concerned. If they end up injured by police ( percieved to be on > purpose ) in the process, then it is up to the courts to deciede if it was > abuse or not. is certainly not what you implied in your first posts, where the protesters were "asking for it.". And I've always been thoroughly tickled by this mindset: A constitutionally guaranteed "right to peaceful assembly," (but only "between the hours of ___ & ___, on a given day, at a given place, with no more than an authorized number of persons, providing that restroom facilities and any constabulary costs deemed "necessary" are paid for up front, as authorized by a given authoritative agency, presuming that they're not constipated over a given issue or permit applicant. If so, the "right to peacefully assemble" is revoked, erego "illegal," until such time as the applicant can overcome the economic barrier of the judical appeals process. Should the date and time of the initial permit application expire before all legal remedies have been exhausted, the applicant must make new application for a permit, inclusive of all fees, and must once again follow all prescribed permit processes and circle dances.) Yessiree. Ya' just gotta' love the legal and constitutional processes. They work great - when they work. I'll make no apology Greg, least of all when you try to mop the floor with your blanket generalizations and mis-characterizations. You can stick with your prayer breakfasts with the mayor and the gov. I'll stick to pro-activism, inclusive of all legal and civil (obedient and/or disobedient) means, every step of the way praying for critical mass. Todd Swearingen "If you're not mad, you're not paying attention." And then of course - Original Message - From: Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 09:45 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > > > > > > On the one hand you issue terse condemnation against dirt > > worshipin', bunny lovin' tree huggers and circumstances of which > > you are largely unaware, yet on the other hand you state that it > > may be necessary for you to conduct an act of civil disobedience > > in the future as well - not okay with Greg on the one hand but > > "okay" with Greg if it's his own hand. > > > > I never said that. I have never, to my knowlage, ever said that an act of > civil disobedience is never an option. > > > Where by your previous and present expressions you have equated > > civil disobedience with terrorism, you now qualify civil > > disobedience as occasionally being acceptable, even when in the > > radical extreme such as John Brown. > > I never said that John Brown's actions were acceptable to me. While his > motives were good, his actions were not. > > > > > The extremisms expressed in your views are a bit incongruent. > > Not at all. > > > > > By your standards, any activist who does not have "legal > > standing" in a judicial matter is one who has "jumped on the > > bandwagon" - an activity that you again are disdainful of. > > I never said that, again you pervert, what was said, and twist it for your > own ends. What I said was, "Far to many times people jump on the civil > disobedience band wagon, just to be there with out having done any other > work, to resolve the issue." > > I try and clarify it for you. Many times people sit around doing nothing > about a problem, they just sit there and get angry about things that are > going on. They sit there, and sit there not doing a thing, then they > explode into civil disobedience. They didn't seek recourse by legal means, > they did nothing untill, they started breaking the law and / or civil code. > This is were I have a problem with it. > > >By > > your standards, Thoreau should have filed suit against the poll > > tax and waited years for a ruling, even when the tax was but a > > vehicle of his protest, not specifically what he was p
[biofuel] Fw: Oil Shortage
A forward: - Subject: Oil shortage There are a lot of folks who don't understand how we came to have an oil shortage here in America. Well, there's a very simple answer.. Nobody bothered to check the oil. We just didn't know we were getting low. The reason for this is purely geographical. All our oil is in Alaska, Texas, California, and Oklahoma. All our dipsticks are in Washington DC. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Chokecherries
The appearance is that chokecherries can yield ~2.14 times the oil per hectare as does rapeseed. Presuming rapeseed oil yields of ~100 gallons per acre (cold pressed or solvent extracted?), chokecherries would yield ~214 gallons of oil per acre. There would also be the fermentable (and then feed) co-products of the berry, giving yield to ethanol production on top of the oil production. (The sources connected to the links below could perhaps yield a more refined answer.) "Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries." http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/02i gqinews/020926igqinews4.html http://www.agr.gov.sk.ca/afif/Projects/19960373.pdf To collect agronomic and fruit quality data from previously established cultivar trials of Prairie native fruit species including chokecherry, pincherry, highbush cranberry, black currant, lingonberry and blueberry. http://www.cast-science.org/education/sfa2-2.txt Wild Chokecherries Tamed The sour chokecherry is looking sweeter these days. The demand for chokecherry jelly and syrup is good, so prices are premium for the wild fruit. Now, Colorado has the first cultivated chokecherry orchard in the nation. The research project was conceived and developed by the private sector and paid for by industry and interested citizens. A chokecherry processor in Colorado was troubled by the undependable supply of wild berries, so he formed the Chokecherry Growers Association and asked Colorado State University to conduct research. Two acres on a mesa overlooking the San Juan Basin Research Center has been set aside, fenced, and irrigated. In 1987, 600 seedlings of four varieties were planted. Source: News, Colorado State University Cooperative Extension - Original Message - From: Thor Skov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Chokecherries > Sorry I missed the original post. Was there a link to > some report or study on the seed's oil content? > > thanks. > > thor > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1375
Comments inside:
> Message: 13
>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:29:47 -
>From: "Ken Riznyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: The oil in Iraq
>
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 20:41
> > Subject: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
> >
> > Wrong again, You may not have been paying attention as he played
> his game
> > since the Gulf War, but, I have. He has been kicked inspectors
> out of Iraq,
> > several times, since the end of the Gulf War. > > >
>
> {ken} Your memory may have conveniently failed you. Hussein did not
> kick the inspectors out of Iraq. He asked the American members of
> the inspection team to leave because they were CIA agents using the
> inspections as a cover to spy on Iraq. The response of the
> inspection team was to pull everyone out.
And if memory serves correctly, Saddam says the latest batch also is a bunch
of spies.
I don't believe they pulled out because they were a bunch of pansies and
couldn't handle
being called spies.
It probably had to do with access to sites being blocked etc and diplomacy
not having any effect.
Threat of military action does appear to have an effect, however. I
certainly hope that
military action is not needed.
One the other hand, accused spy Scott Ritter says that iraq is not a threat:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/08/ritter.iraq/
>
> > >Given the standard set by GW should I run into his
> > > house and change the regime? I think not. If we go in and
> > >assume that this is good for us to do what if France decides that
> > >since we have numerous WOMD that we should have a regime change
> > >and masses troops in Quebec? Treaties be damed.
> > Your missing the point, Saddam has failed to comply with a Peace
> > Treaty, and several UN resolutions. When is he finally going to
> > comply? The US on the other hand, has bent over backward with
> > treaties as that concern WOMD.
> (ken} there are many countries that ignore UN resolutions especially
> Israel, and treaties are often ignored. The US has not bent over
> backward with treaties concerning WOMD. Until just recently no
> treaty eliminated nuclear weapons, all the treaties with the Soviet
> Union limited future production and occasionally eliminated outdated
> weapons. BTW hasn't Bush thumbed his nose at the Kyoto accord and
> ignored the ABM treaty?
Probably has something to do with view of excessive regulation on the US vs
almost
no regulation on other countries like China, etc.
> > > We could leave him alone and isolated. It worked for 9 years.
> > >
> >
> > Wrong again, all it did was make him think that he can get away
> with more.
> > We left him alone after the Iraq / Iran war, what did he do? He
> went into
> > Kuwait, and caused acts to be committed that almost put him on par
> with the
> > Talaban in some cases.
> (ken) don't forget Bush's daddy led him to believe that he could
> invade Kuwait with impunity.
Saying 'the US did not want to get involved in Arab politics' is not the
same
as 'go ahead to kill, rape, and plunder we don't mind, save some for us'.
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/
Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Troubled Times Slow Charge
Hi Keith and Kris, I do not take a narrow view on technologies either. I would not be Electronic, Building Construction and HVAC engineer with 37 years of computer experiences, if I wasn't passionately interested in technologies. But I share the urgency that Keith have in making something now and that puts a time line on everything we do. What I am afraid of is that people get so distracted, and maybe already are, by all unproven ideas, that we do not do what we can and should do yesterday or at least today. Even if we came up with a fully researched idea for a total solution tomorrow, it would still take around at least 25-30 years and more to generally implement it. You only have to look at Internet to understand it (it took 35 years). This if the idea needed new user equipment and new distribution systems. If the available financial resources at the same time goes down, it would be difficult to do the new investments and the developed countries could find themselves in a downward spiral, difficult to stop. The more dependent the country would be of energy, the the more difficult it would be. Dreams about not "ready for use" technologies or wars to colonize dwindling resources are not good solutions for the current situation, we need consistent work with implementing "ready for use" technologies. That is why I am nagging about "ready for use" technologies and that is why Journey to Forever and Energy Saving Now have it on the web sites. Maybe Keith task in helping the developing world is both a more noble and gratifying one, than my task of trying to get the supposedly advanced and developed world to conserve and change energy use. Sometimes I have the feeling that it would be better to concentrate on the developing world who wants the help, than trying to pull and push the developed jackass off the rail track in front of the rapidly closing train. Maybe I can help with both, but the latter one makes me sometimes a bit stressed and aggressive. That is also why I like this list and Keith as moderator. He have an unique understanding that we, like it or not, have to deal with a lot of political and emotional issues. It is all about changing attitudes and goals, not only issues about technologies. The social aspect of this exercises and education are very important. I think that suddenly the subject title got even more explanatory and fitting. Hakan At 07:09 PM 2/19/2003 +0900, you wrote: >Hi Kris > >Please don't get me wrong - I don't mind committing the unforgiveable >and saying it's probably just a matter of time till somebody solves >the free energy puzzle one way or another. I've said something like >that here before a couple of times, despite the ominous silence that >ensued. On the other hand, most of the claims we've seen merit more >scepticism than anything else, and that seems to have been >well-founded so far, none of them has come to anything. (Yet.) > >I'm also somewhat sceptical of imminent cataclysmic events as a >reason for getting into appropriate technology - cataclysms or no, it >doesn't need such "reasons", it stands on its own well enough, >whether in 3rd World countries or developed nations. > >I don't take a narrow view of what's on topic when it comes to >biofuels, nor that is should necessarily be "ready-for-use" >technology that's discussed. That's Hakan's focus for instance at his >excellent website, and indeed ours at Journey to Forever, for obvious >reasons. But here we can be much more wide-ranging. > >But we can really do without stuff like Zeta, definitely without >Dennis Lee, and without magnets. > >Just as long as you're aware of that. Anfd you are. So no problem. >Still worth saying soi for others here who might not be aware of it >though. > >regards > >Keith > > > >Well Keith, I got a whole diferent view of that web site. I > >just spent a couple of hours there but, I didn't click on > >any of the Zeta info, because I read that stuff years ago. > >What I saw was a group of young guys, probably a lot like > >you and me at that age, who are not running around > >screaming that the sky is falling but, are trying to put > >their thinking caps on now, so they will have accumulated > >the knowledge necessary to rebuild after a cataclysmic > >event. > > > >Granted these guys are associating with the scam artists at > >Zeta but, I didn't see anything really wrong with their > >message except that Planet X is do to visit in the next 75 > >days or so. I'm not sure why I spend 2 or 3 hours almost > >everyday reading about all kinds of strange subjects but, > >something tells me to keep searching for any info that may > >be of help when the shit hits the fan. > > > >I'm not sure if the boogie man is economic collapse, WWIII, > >NWO, a pole shift, major earthquakes, or whatever but, I am > >convinced that it is time to accumlate as much knowledge as > >possible, so my kids have as good a chance at a decent life > >as I did. I admit to spending to
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
- Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:52 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > You're right Greg. Technically you never said specifically that. > You only implied that it's the wrong option unless of course it > has passed through a rationalization process acceptable by your > standards, They are the accepted standards of a clear majority of Americans, nothing more nothing less. >and then absolutely declared that people who do > conduct acts of civil disobedience are tantamount to if not > supporting terrorism if they draw one dram of energy away from > the "war" on terrorism. Not a matter of a "war", but, in local defense of terrorism. Big difference. > > Gee! I wonder what they were before "the war on terrorism" or > before you classified them as supporters of terrorism? > Protesters? Activists? Concerned mothers and fathers, sons and > daughters? > That, but, a few were terrorist as well ( the home grown kind ). It's ok to be a protester, a activist, or a concerned parent, but it is not ok, to break laws to force things down someone else's throat. Thoreau broke the law in a peaceful manner ( basically it affected only him, not total strangers ), I doubt he forced his way in to someone's business, just because he disagreed with them or what the government was doing. > And I'm glad you got around to at least slightly better > clarifying your position, as this > > > Again I will say it. It is my belief that anyone that engages > in civil > > disobedience and law breaking, before they ( as indivduals ) > seak other > > means of resolving the issue, should get what they recieve, as > far as the > > courts are concerned. If they end up injured by police ( > percieved to be on > > purpose ) in the process, then it is up to the courts to > deciede if it was > > abuse or not. > > is certainly not what you implied in your first posts, where the > protesters were "asking for it.". I think that in a way it would be, if the courts decided that they were at fault, and the police did not use "torture". If the courts said that it *was excessive* use of force for the situation, then I would have to back off, with my statement, but, I still honestly believe that they were given plenty of warning, before the spray was applied. Could the police have used different tactics and get better / faster / nicer results? Perhaps. Did the police know that the tactics they used were not going to get the results that they thought that they were going to get? I would say defiantly not. Otherwise why bother to give the warnings first and then the"sample". If the police did not give any warnings, and then just sprayed the hell out of them, I would be allot more sympathetic to them. > > And I've always been thoroughly tickled by this mindset: > > A constitutionally guaranteed "right to peaceful assembly," (but > only "between the hours of ___ & ___, on a given day, at a given > place, with no more than an authorized number of persons, > providing that restroom facilities and any constabulary costs > deemed "necessary" are paid for up front, as authorized by a > given authoritative agency, presuming that they're not > constipated over a given issue or permit applicant. If it applies to everyone to a given situation, I don't see a problem with it. After all it is most likely a public place. >If so, the > "right to peacefully assemble" is revoked, erego "illegal," until > such time as the applicant can overcome the economic barrier of > the judical appeals process. Should the date and time of the > initial permit application expire before all legal remedies have > been exhausted, the applicant must make new application for a > permit, inclusive of all fees, and must once again follow all > prescribed permit processes and circle dances.) > Yes there are qualifiers, but, depending on the situation, I can fully understand it. Would you like to see a full KKK rally, march though black Harlem or any other major, non-white, section of your favorite city, without a ton of police around to *try* and keep the peace? I wouldn't. "Try to keep the peace" are the key words here, it would be like a logging crew cutting down the biggest tree in the U.S., not for lumber or other useful purpose, but, because they can. All hell would break lose. > Yessiree. Ya' just gotta' love the legal and constitutional > processes. They work great - when they work. Better than nothing at all. > > I'll make no apology Greg, I neither ask for, nor demand apologies. > least of all when you try to mop the > floor with your blanket generalizations and > mis-characterizations. To you and some perhaps, but, not to me and others. >You can stick with your prayer breakfasts > with the mayor and the gov. > Are you using a blanket generalization and mis-characterizing? For I don't do one or the other. > I'll stick to pro-activism, inclusive of all legal and civil > (obedi
RE: [biofuel] Engine Transplant
I wonder if the EarthRoamer guy has had problems: www.EarthRoamer.com On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, harley3 wrote: > Ken: > > Also the automatic dodge transmission used on the Cummins diesel engine > do > not hold up. Look at ads on used dodge trucks with a diesel. Every > truck > with an automatic state "rebuilt transmission". Watch for a little time, > and you will also notice the problem. > > Harley > -Original Message- > From: Ken Riznyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:05 AM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Engine Transplant > > > I have a 94 Dodge conversion van with a 318 gasoline engine. It has > over 200,000 miles on it and I am thinking that I will need a new > engine soon. Does anyone have any ideas on what would be a good > diesel transplant? The Cummings diesel used in the Dodge Ram Pickup > uses the same tranny but is much to big to fit into the small engine > compartment in the van. > > Ken > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [&time=1045621906388588] > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Oil and water do mix after all
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3408 Oil and water do mix after all 19:00 19 February 03 Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition Oil and water do not mix - the mantra is familiar to every schoolchild. You have to shake them to overcome the forces that hold the oil together. Mixing the unmixable Now teachers may want to rewrite their lessons. If you first remove any gas that is dissolved in the water, it will mix spontaneously and even stay that way indefinitely, according to chemist Ric Pashley of the Australian National University in Canberra. "Many scientists are going to find this very hard to believe," says colloid scientist Len Fisher of the University of Bristol in England, "but Pashley has provided very strong proof that oil and water will mix." Pashley's observation is bound to cause controversy as the reason it happens is still unclear. Chemists are waiting to see whether the experiment can be repeated. If confirmed, the finding could provide clues to one of chemistry's most puzzling phenomena. This is the so-called long-range hydrophobic force, which causes oil surfaces to attract one another over what to chemists are remarkably long distances. French dressing The effect prevents oil's dispersion in water, and means that you can only make oil and water emulsions, such as French dressing for salads, by shaking them and adding stabilising agents. But although countless chemists have measured the force, no one has ever been able to explain how it works. Pashley was studying oil-like hydrophobic surfaces as they were being pulled apart, and spotted microscopic cavities appearing on their surfaces. Water that has been exposed to air contains the equivalent of several teaspoonfuls of dissolved gas per litre, and Pashley suspected that the cavities contained bubbles of gas that had been drawn out of the water, maybe as a consequence of the long-range hydrophobic force. To test his hunch, Pashley removed almost all the gas from a water-oil mixture by repeatedly freezing and thawing it while pumping off the gases as they evaporated out (Journal of Physical Chemistry B, vol 107, p 1714). What he saw then was completely unexpected. "The mix spontaneously formed a cloudy emulsion. I was as surprised as anybody," says Pashley. The result suggests that dissolved gas may be involved in how the force acts. Extremely close "He takes the air out and he doesn't get the long-range hydrophobic force. It doesn't nail the hydrophobic force down, but now we have something to work on," says James Quirk, a chemist at the University of Western Australia in Perth, who hopes that studying the spontaneous emulsions may lead to an explanation for the elusive force. Related Stories Bizarre chemical discovery gives homeopathic hint 7 November 2002 Beetle fog-catcher inspires engineers 1 November 2001 For more related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Chemistry, Australian National University Physics, University of Bristol Long-range hydrophobic interactions Journal of Physical Chemistry B Even more surprisingly, the mixture did not break up even when gas was put back into the water after the emulsion had formed. Pashley suggests that the gas might interfere with the hydrophobic force most effectively only when the oil droplets are extremely close together, such as when they are first separating as the emulsion starts to form. Once the emulsion has formed, hydroxyl groups from the water adsorb onto the surface of the oil droplets, making them similarly charged and thus preventing them from coming close together. If spontaneous emulsions can be made at will, they could have important applications in medicine and the chemical industry. Many injectable medicines are currently only soluble in oil. An alternative might be to disperse the medicine in degassed water, which is already produced on a large scale by the oil industry. Emulsion paints, which currently use chemical stabilisers to stop them separating, could also be made more cheaply if degassed water would do the trick. Rachel Nowak, Melbourne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] The Silent Take Over
I don't have a TV either. I think it helps me accomplish more tasks as well as get more reading done. It is a terrible time thief. Kirk -Original Message- From: srshb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:47 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] The Silent Take Over Hi, I'm not sure if this book by Noreena Hertz is relevant to this group, but still want to recommend. I'm through 1/3 of the book, but it is great. Lot of things put together and how govts world over are joining hands (willingly or forced) with mutlinationals to exploit the commoner. An eye opener, don't know how long I can be on the wrong side of the fence.. Best Regards, Suresh. PS: Currently I live in USA and don't have TV at home. When I tell people no TV at home, they look at me as an alien from far away.. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
Gee Greg, What happened? Get snowed in for a week and don't have anything better to do than try to wear people down with your endlessly conservative, right-wing war of attritional rationalization? Contrary to what you may think, I have no interest of following your circular logic around and around until either exhausted or churned into butter. But you can continue to argue simply for the sake of arguement if you like. Just be slightly aware when you start answering yourself...out loud anyway. [Geese!!!] Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > > - Original Message - > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:52 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! > > > > You're right Greg. Technically you never said specifically that. > > You only implied that it's the wrong option unless of course it > > has passed through a rationalization process acceptable by your > > standards, > > They are the accepted standards of a clear majority of Americans, nothing > more nothing less. > > >and then absolutely declared that people who do > > conduct acts of civil disobedience are tantamount to if not > > supporting terrorism if they draw one dram of energy away from > > the "war" on terrorism. > > Not a matter of a "war", but, in local defense of terrorism. Big difference. > > > > > Gee! I wonder what they were before "the war on terrorism" or > > before you classified them as supporters of terrorism? > > Protesters? Activists? Concerned mothers and fathers, sons and > > daughters? > > > > That, but, a few were terrorist as well ( the home grown kind ). It's ok to > be a protester, a activist, or a concerned parent, but it is not ok, to > break laws to force things down someone else's throat. Thoreau broke the > law in a peaceful manner ( basically it affected only him, not total > strangers ), I doubt he forced his way in to someone's business, just > because he disagreed with them or what the government was doing. > > > And I'm glad you got around to at least slightly better > > clarifying your position, as this > > > > > Again I will say it. It is my belief that anyone that engages > > in civil > > > disobedience and law breaking, before they ( as indivduals ) > > seak other > > > means of resolving the issue, should get what they recieve, as > > far as the > > > courts are concerned. If they end up injured by police ( > > percieved to be on > > > purpose ) in the process, then it is up to the courts to > > deciede if it was > > > abuse or not. > > > > is certainly not what you implied in your first posts, where the > > protesters were "asking for it.". > > I think that in a way it would be, if the courts decided that they were at > fault, and the police did not use "torture". If the courts said that it > *was excessive* use of force for the situation, then I would have to back > off, with my statement, but, I still honestly believe that they were given > plenty of warning, before the spray was applied. > > Could the police have used different tactics and get better / faster / nicer > results? Perhaps. Did the police know that the tactics they used were not > going to get the results that they thought that they were going to get? I > would say defiantly not. Otherwise why bother to give the warnings first and > then the"sample". > > If the police did not give any warnings, and then just sprayed the hell out > of them, I would be allot more sympathetic to them. > > > > > And I've always been thoroughly tickled by this mindset: > > > > A constitutionally guaranteed "right to peaceful assembly," (but > > only "between the hours of ___ & ___, on a given day, at a given > > place, with no more than an authorized number of persons, > > providing that restroom facilities and any constabulary costs > > deemed "necessary" are paid for up front, as authorized by a > > given authoritative agency, presuming that they're not > > constipated over a given issue or permit applicant. > > If it applies to everyone to a given situation, I don't see a problem with > it. After all it is most likely a public place. > > >If so, the > > "right to peacefully assemble" is revoked, erego "illegal," until > > such time as the applicant can overcome the economic barrier of > > the judical appeals process. Should the date and time of the > > initial permit application expire before all legal remedies have > > been exhausted, the applicant must make new application for a > > permit, inclusive of all fees, and must once again follow all > > prescribed permit processes and circle dances.) > > > > Yes there are qualifiers, but, depending on the situation, I can fully > understand it. Would you like to see a full KKK rally, march though black > Harlem or any other major, non-white, section of your favorite city, > without a ton of police around to *try
RE: [biofuel] Dodge diesels...more coming soon?
Hey this is great. Do these MB motors share the same 'potential' issue of the VW TDI? Message: 9 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:09:33 -0800 From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Dodge diesels...more coming soon? http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b111502.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Chokecherries
Ed, could you post where you did this checking (if it's available on the web)? I've got friends on the Plains who are interested in biodiesel and quite familiar with chokecherries. I'd love to pass all this info along. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have done some checking and it actually is running around the same as > Canola, not bad, but there is also a hunch on the part of the > researcher that some of the wild varieties could quite possibly go > higher than that. > > There are also a few other concerns in processing that need to be > looked at. > > Anyway, it might be another promising feedstock. > > > Edward Beggs > http://www.biofuels.ca > > On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 11:14 AM, Thor Skov wrote: > > > Sorry I missed the original post. Was there a link to > > some report or study on the seed's oil content? > > > > thanks. > > > > thor > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [evworld] Picture, price of gas above $2.00 for 87 Octane at a Shell station in San Diego
Gas has crept up over $2/gal in Boulder Creek, CA, but diesel is still at $1.89. Mark F. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] RE: WVO/SVO & Biodiesel in WA state
Graham, This is an interesting viewpoint. I'm curious whether you know of any situations with state legislatures where WVO/SVO did in fact drag down biodiesel legislation. It seems to me that the concerns you raise are more likely to emerge when dealing with fleet managers and car owners. Why would it not be simple to craft "biofuels" legislation that addresses fuels to be burned in diesel engines? Why not just use language that supports any bio-based fuel for diesels? I don't know if, at least in Washington, legislators are all that concerned about OEM requirements and other technical details. The stuff is okayed by EPA; that's good enough. I'd bet a dime to a dollar that, given the budget crisis and the problems with school bus emissions, the real issues are going to be revenues and pollution. Facing a whopping revenue shortfall, legislators will be wary of granting tax breaks to industries. The easy counter-argument is that such breaks will not produce lower revenues, as no industry currently exists, but rather will promote the growth of new businesses around biodiesel that will provide jobs and revenues. Of course, I don't have any lobbying experience, so I could be off base. But I just don't see how the message of "biofuels" for diesels is less difficult to communicate than that of "biodiesel" for diesels. regards, thor - Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:17:43 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: WVO/SVO & Biodiesel in WA state Hi Ed, I have to disagree with your recommendation that biofuel advocates should try to get the WA legislature to consider SVO and WVO at the same time as biodiesel. I completely agree that the same priciples support the inclusion of both. BUT, we need to pursue goals that we can attain and appreciate that confusion is a major risk here and a tool that will be used against us. We need to have the crystal clear message that biodiesel(as B20) runs in diesel engines with no need for modification and with the (somewhat grudging) support of the OEM's. Putting SVO and WVO into the mix will confuse people and politicians regarding what biodiesel is and how it can be used and make passage substantially less likely. Biodiesel can lead the way for other biofuels but biodiesel will be less likely to get anywhere if it has to pull the weight of SVO and WVO. I hope that you will seriously consider whether this approach will yield the best long-term results. Best, Graham = Grants Manager Stillaguamish Tribe Of Indians 3439 Stoluckquamish Lane P.O. Box 277 Arlington, WA 98223-0277 (360) 652-7362 Ext 284 __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
