Re: [Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Thanks Keith, You're welcome Mick. As it turns out, between posting this message and receiving your reply I did some thinking and came up with the same solution. I've washed this batch twice since and the PH is coming up slowly, currently about PH 6.5. Tap water here is about PH 7.6 so I estimate another two or three washes will do it, maybe. Lots of water unfortunately however I suppose it can't be avoided. Keep it for future washes? - 3rd wash water for the next 2nd wash etc. Not good considering Sydney is on level 3 water restrictions caused no doubt by the urban sprawl, drought conditions and infrastructure not keeping pace. I was thinking, is it possible to speed this process up and reduce the water used by using someting like Bi-carb Soda in the wash water to neutralise the acid further? Or would this complicate things? I really don't know, but are you trying to neutralise the acid or to get rid of it? Maybe it would be faster but maybe you might end up with some neutralised acid and some equally neutralised Bi-carb Soda both still in the fuel. But I don't know. I'd stick with the washing I guess, you should have enough time. I'm hoping I can manage to do the necessary washes and dry the fuel before I hit the road at the end of the week. Thanks again Keith for your advise, much appreciated. HIH Mick, hope it works out too, have a good trip. Best Keith Mick Hello Mick Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. If the pH is below 7 then you'll get a positive titration reading, but I don't see the point of titrating it. If you have converted biodiesel back to FFA it sure won't be much. The low-ish pH reading is much more likely to be due to residues of the acid you used in the wash quench. It can take quite a lot of qwashing to get it out. Keep on washing it until the pH returns to something near neutral (or the same as your wash water). My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? You're planning to neutralise the excess acid you used in the wash quench by re-processing the biodiesel? Overkill, just wash it some more, maybe quite a lot more. If that doesn't work then we can think again. Best Keith Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hi Ken On Jan 8, 2006, at 2:15 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: I was referring to acid esterification of FFA:s / oil without passing through the soap step. These reactions are often incomplete, and moreover, quite slow. Not only that, but difficult to isolate your biodiesel from the react- ants. After the acid step? No need. My experience with straight esterification is that you always have two phases, but you can't ever tell what's in each phase. It starts out, of course, with alcohol in one and FFA in the other. After the reaction has gone as far it's going to (many hours of agit- ation at high temps), Well, if you like. Or perhaps not many hours at not very high temps. there's a combination of biodiesel, FFA, acid, and a little methanol in the oily phase, and the huge excess of meth- anol plus water and most of the acid in the aqueous phase. Hard to ever get pure biodiesel, or even know how far the reaction has gone, and you can't easily purify or wash the biodiesel without reversing the reaction to some extent. Huh? Easy washing, high-quality product, no reverse reaction. After completing the second-stage base transesterification step that is, I guess that's what you mean. I'm sure it's doable, once you work out all the variables and have a process down with good testing of your product. For me, the base- catalyzed reaction is much more practical. To each his own, of course. For me, single-stage base is primitive by comparison with acid-base, and I'm not at all alone in thinking that. Just had yet another newbie doing the Foolproof method, as-is, this one another school student doing it for his science fair. It works great, thanks! We tell them don't do it, start at the beginning, learn the whole thing so you can do troubleshooting, but a lot of people jump in anyway and most of them don't seem to have any problems. We get a lot of feedback on it, what I said about it the other day has a firm basis: You try the Foolproof method and sometimes people don't have any success with it and maybe come back later and try again, but most likely it works just fine, or you have to fiddle with it a bit and then it works just fine, or maybe you have to fiddle with it quite a lot, and then it works just fine. (I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine, but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer.) Just as an aside, I know you didn't say that, but IMHO it's not a good approach to view the acid-base process as a normal single-stage base transesterification with an add-on in front. When the acid step is done and you start the base transesterification step you're not starting from the same place as you would be if you were doing a simple single-stage base reaction with lower-FFA oil. There are some very complicated ways to proceed, and some very easy ways too. Titrating it for instance might not tell you much, or might not tell you what you think it's telling you (though it might work anyway). Best approach it as a single integrated process with two steps. Sorry to be so vague, perforce, but it's a good hint. Aleks's Foolproof method is definitely the place to start with acid-base and maybe to stay with, which most people seem to do. Regards Keith -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Venezuela's diesel in Chicago - blog
http://newstandardnews.net/alivewires/business/content/?show_item=2729 Venezuelan Fuel Story Leads to Action in Chicago POSTED BY: *Brian Dominick* http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_contributor_biocontributorID=1 BLOGGING: Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_itemitemid=2710 The following is an excerpt from an email sent to The NewStandard by Chicago media activist and long-time TNS reader/supporter Mitchell Szczepanczyk about the impact of the story we ran last week by Jessica Pupovac. The story concerned the Chicago Transit Authority's decision to decline an offer of discounted diesel for its buses from Venezuelan-owned Citgo oil, the only condition being they had to pass the savings on to poor public-transit users. Within a day of the post of Jessica's story on TNS, it got reposted/linked on two widely-read Chicago-area websites: Chicago Indymedia http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display/67794/index.php (which prominently re-featured http://www.chicago.indymedia.org/ the story) and Gapers Block http://www.gapersblock.com/news/archives/2005/12/#011709. Another blog, Chicagoist http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2005/12/30/new_years_resolution_for_cta_hire_competent_people.php, also linked to the story. It continued spreading among a variety of left-of-center websites: COANews http://www.coanews.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=539PHPSESSID=41772ca6c1f1954e0dbbcd39a533bbef posted it as their lead story, Alternet http://www.alternet.org/story/30296/ reprinted the story in its entirety and featured it. Then yesterday, things really got big. A number of prominent Chicago-area legislators held a press conference about the matter. Somehow they heard about the story and vented loudly. The coverage of that press conference and the story led to stories in the /Chicago Sun-Times http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-citgo05.html/, the /Chicago Tribune http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0601050105jan05,1,4069803.story?coll=chi-business-hed/ (despite a previous unsuccessful attempt on my part to get the Tribune interested in the story), and on Chicago's CBS radio affilate http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/1776.php and Chicago Public Radio http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/chicago/news.newsmain?action=articleARTICLE_ID=861492. TNS was cited /immediately/ by Chicago-area legislator Luis Guttierez's communications director as a key source for the story getting reposted across the web and onto wider public consciousness, continuing to add to the considerable value of TNS. We don't usually have time in our day to do this level of follow-up on any particular story we publish, but it's really gratifying when a reader contacts us to let us know what a difference our journalists make. -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
Hey Logan and David; These numbers are reasonable. (don't forget to factor in an amount for a steady state leake rate on your system as this adds to the load your pump will see as it approaches base vacuum) Actually I can get on the order of 100 to 200 ml water out of 25 liters of oil at times collecting in my liquid trap. This is estimated I have not measured it. Perhaps I should. But this is after heating to 55 degrees celsius and draining any liquid water that precipitates. So 200 mls in 25 liters is 0.8% water by volume. I'm not sure what your batch size is but as a conservative figure use 1% to figure the amount of water you will have to remove by vacuum. Also remember that a 5 CFM pump will not necessarily give you 5 CFM as was pointed out before. And even after correcting it using gas law equation it still is hampered by conductance of piping between the pump and chamber. Rule of thumb here is use large diameter pipe (as large as the pump inlet if possible) and as few elbows as possible will help a lot. To give you a feel for these factors consider my system takes about an hour to remove said amount of water. My system is relatively leak tight I can get to 29 inches ultimate on a dry system, so I am getting an EFFECTIVE throughput of about 4 to 5 liters per minute at vacuum BUT I am using a dual stage rotary pump which is designed to do 18 CFM. Throughput is reduced dramatically by the fact that I am pumping through a 1/4" tube!! Bear in mind that from the standpoint of throughput bigger is always better, but as a girl I once knew taught me; quality counts for more. When I was pumping through 1/2" copper pipe I only succeeded in causing the contents of the reactor to froth up and " boil over" contaminating the liquid trap in the process. So it is possible to have too much of a good thing. You can reduce the conductance of the piping or install a valve for throttling the pump to avoid this problem and toward the end of the drying cycle open up the valve to speed up the end game. If your reactor starts rumbling and dancing around on it's stand it is a good bet that you will suck liquid up into the condenser, especially if the reactor is filled to a high level. I hope I have helped and not made it seem a lot more complicated. If so take a hint from the fact that my pump is more than adequate for my 30 liter size reactor. I get a sense that it could easily handle a 150 liter tank. There is a tradeoff between heat and vacuum. Either one can speed the drying process but you don't want froth! When I started learning about vacuum my mentor said " you can't rush a vacuum son - we got time for a coffee" so true. Cheers Joe logan vilas wrote: David Sorry if that number's wrong it's what I've been told from the only person I know who does AC work. But that number makes it sound a lot better. You will not have 1 cubic foot of water in your oil after you settle and drain it. If you do then you need to get a better method. There is likely less then 1 cubic inch after setteling and draining. That would only take 6 miniutes to remove. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. logan vilas wrote: Water boils off at 43F at 20-50mmhg of vacuum at sea level. At 140F it takes about 150-200mmhg. When fluids are mixed togther the Pressure of Vaporization changes especially when thouroughly mixed. You do not need a condensor if you are useing a AC type vacuum pump(that's what they are designed for). I know iowa's BECON program flash heats their oil to 230F then runs it through a vacuum chamber to achieve dewatering. Unless you have a very large vacuum pump or very little water in your oil it will take a long time. Water multiplies in volume by 10-18 thousand times when boiled. Say WHAT? I'm not sure what number you mean by "10-18 thousand". The number I remember is about 1700 times. 1 Cubic foot = 1728 cubic inches 1 Cubic Inch of water when boiled off = 5.79 cubic feet minimum 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches Vacuum Distilation alone would take a huge amount of time. I would still heat then let it settle and remove the water off the bottom. Then use vacuum distilation. Remember if you buy a 5CFM vacuum pump that is displacement of the piston at no load and full rpm. When you start pulling a vacuum that number falls off quickely and at 30" that is probably less then 1CFM. You have to multiply the CFM by the pressure. 1/30 atmosphere * 5 CFM = 1/6 CFM. It you're trying to pump off a cubic foot of water it would take something like 1700 * 6 minutes. That's a long time to wait:) --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Chicage - Venezuela
But this whole discussion is somewhat academic isn't it? I mean surely to blazes the city of Chicago must already be involved in international terrorism? I mean when you consider that the US administration is one of the worst offenders in that regard, I can't imagine that a city the size of Chicago can plead innocence on the charge. There must be military contractors in the area and in the very least the city is making tax revenues off of thier operations within the municipality which means the city is already complicit in acts of terror and agression all over the world! Oh wait - I forgot we don't tax the rich and powerful - nev'r mind. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: But we seem to have no problem buying oil from Saudi Arabia, which has had far more to do with funding and sponsoring terrorism than Venezuela. I have yet to see anything conclusive about Chavez other than he has clamped down on some members of the opposition in his own country. I fail to see how he is much of a threat to the US. Not to mention, there is a Citgo station AT THE PENTAGON! It sells Biodiesel! My head hurts. Mike Aramco is a foreign government-owned company, are your local governments allowed to buy fuel? Anyway, whatever, the news report says: But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. If your explanation had any chance of standing up I don't doubt she'd have used it, but she didn't. People like Weisbrot would surely know it too. I think you're just grabbing for an excuse. IMHO, considering the current context in the US of oil interests, corruption and interfering with foreign governments (and even your own), your arguments seem somewhat bizarre. In the context of the poor too, especially after some of Hurricane Katrina's revelations. But you blamed the victims at the time, didn't you? Nobody's said the S-word yet (aarghh), LOL! Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol
If the bio was unwashed (as you state below) then how could it have given good results in the methanol test as stated by Jan below, below? I find that the methanol test is quite stingent. I can easily get fuel that passes the wash test with flying colours but still gives some precipitate from the methanol test. BTW out of curiosityhow many of you get zero precipitate in the methanol test? Can we have a show of hands? Joe JJJN wrote: Thanks Jan, You have confirmed what I have researched from JtF about the base converting the methyl esters back to mono and di glycerides (can happen) and that certainly makes sense as the bio was unwashed therefore it would have had additional catalyst available for this to happen. Thanks again for your help here Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, since the methanol solubility test worked out well, you probably have created some soap from the methyl esters. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "JJJN" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "BIO" Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I have done with the results and further below are my questions, The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer removed. 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test) as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel. Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change. 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method, (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel) - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour. Results: after 24 hours there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all. 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room temp till mixed into one phase. Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time. Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is close to seven. O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above? I am not sure except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm so I did. My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on top of the other clear amber layer may be? Could this be the FFA content per L? Thanks in advance, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Geeky process question
Hi Bob; I notice you are very sharp on the chemistry so I have a question for you regarding the biodiesel process. Copying to list as well. I am wondering if in these processes where you have two phases that separate does the separation proceed over time by an exponential decay? I mean if I measured the amount of say glycerine that comes out per unit of time would it be described by a function something like Y= X(1-e^-t/tc) where Y would be the amount of glycerine at a given time, X is the total amount which will ever settle out, t is the time interval and tc some time constant for the reaction conditions? If this IS the case then what factors would dictate tc?? Where I am going with this is that in electronics we use this formula to describe the charging of a capacitor. Basically after a period of time equal to five time constants there is already 99% of the maximum you will ever get in the capacitor. I am trying to determine a cutoff point for settling in order to optimize the process in terms of time, without raising contamination levels in the final product unduely. Am I on the right track here? Sorry but I am not trained in chemistry. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Geeky process question
Say Joe, Wouldn't be appropraite if you put Bob Allen - Geeky process question in the heading? fredOn 1/9/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bob;I notice you are very sharp on the chemistry so I have a question foryou regarding the biodiesel process. Copying to list as well.I amwondering if in these processes where you have two phases that separate does the separation proceed over time by an exponential decay?I meanif I measured the amount of say glycerine that comes out per unit oftime would it be described by a function something like Y= X(1-e^-t/tc) where Y would be the amount of glycerine at a given time, X is the totalamount which will ever settle out, t is the time interval and tc sometime constant for the reaction conditions?If this IS the case then what factors would dictate tc??Where I am going with this is that inelectronics we use this formula to describe the charging of acapacitor.Basically after a period of time equal to five timeconstants there is already 99% of the maximum you will ever get in the capacitor.I am trying to determine a cutoff point for settling inorder to optimize the process in terms of time, without raisingcontamination levels in the final product unduely.Am I on the righttrack here?Sorry but I am not trained in chemistry. Joe___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Geeky process question
Howdy Joe, to be honest I have never given thought to the kinetics of phase separation, although your intuitive guess at an exponential rate for the process certainly seems reasonable. Variables would include viscosities of both phases, the difference in densities of the phases, and maybe the difference in the polarities of the phases, and I would bet most importantly, temperature. The variables are not completely independent as viscosity is a function of temperature, even the densities may vary differently as a function of temperature. Further, unless you have essentially infinite partition coefficients, you will always have some of each dissolved in the other. and one more thing, the two phases are not homogeneous, the glycerin phase also contains the unreacted methanol, and alkaline catalyst, small amounts of mono and diglycerides, etc. If I were to approach the problem, I would certainly do it empirically. take crude reaction mixture after it had cooled to room temperature (to control for temperature which is an important variable), remix it, then put it in a burette, and monitor phase separation over time. All that having been said, does it really matter that much, considering that good washing will remove any of the glycerin cocktail not separated by gravity? Hi Bob; I notice you are very sharp on the chemistry so I have a question for you regarding the biodiesel process. Copying to list as well. I am wondering if in these processes where you have two phases that separate does the separation proceed over time by an exponential decay? I mean if I measured the amount of say glycerine that comes out per unit of time would it be described by a function something like Y= X(1-e^-t/tc) where Y would be the amount of glycerine at a given time, X is the total amount which will ever settle out, t is the time interval and tc some time constant for the reaction conditions? If this IS the case then what factors would dictate tc?? Where I am going with this is that in electronics we use this formula to describe the charging of a capacitor. Basically after a period of time equal to five time constants there is already 99% of the maximum you will ever get in the capacitor. I am trying to determine a cutoff point for settling in order to optimize the process in terms of time, without raising contamination levels in the final product unduely. Am I on the right track here? Sorry but I am not trained in chemistry. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: [PasturedPigs] NAIS letter
Greetings, Please call your representatives, senators and everyone you can. This bill includes cats and dogs. And if you think it is about preventing disease, think about this: All of your food will be microchiped! I do know how hard it is to find those microchips and remove them when you butcher, the emu industry used them. We could all wind up with a pound of microchips in our intestines. Bright Blessings, Kim Worth reading. Worth thinking about. Worth writing about. Worth fighting. Begin forwarded message: From: Laura Haggarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: January 9, 2006 9:39:31 AM EST Hi all, I got this letter from another email list (with permission to cross-post and use), made a few small modifications, and have sent it to my local newspaper (have already written to my legislators.) I thought you all might want to send it along to yours: Dear Editors, I am writing to ask the Grant County News to publish my letter in order to inform their subscribers about the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) which is currently in its initial stages. This USDA-run program has as its goal the registration of every farm animal (including non-food animals such as horses) in a centralized government database. This program will require micro chipping of each animal (including all forms of poultry), at the expense of the owner, and a premises ID for every farm which will be linked to a satellite photo and Global Positioning System record (see this link for the USDA website about the program: www.usda.gov/nais/) As a hobby farm owner who has horses, goats, and poultry, I strongly oppose the implementation of the NAIS. Agribusiness, specifically The National Institute for Animal Agriculture (NIAA), lobbied the USDA (after 9/11 and subsequent BSE scares) to create the NAIS supposedly to protect U.S. citizens and their animals from diseases. The NIAA is composed primarily of two groups - (1) large corporate producers and (2) the makers and producers of animal ID equipment. In April 2002 a task force composed of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) and over 30 livestock organizations provided leadership in creating the animal identification system. Small-scale farmers involved in animal husbandry, homesteaders, and animal hobbyists were not represented. Language quoted from the Draft Strategic Plan proves this, APHIS then established the National Identification Development Team (NIDT), a joint, State, Federal, and industry group to further advance this effort. Throughout 2003, the NIDT, consisting of approximately 100 animal and livestock industry professionals representing more than 70 associations, organizations, and government agencies, expanded upon the work plan to produce the initial draft of the U.S. Animal Identification Plan (USAIP). (Plan, p. 4) While associations, organizations, etc. may be backing the NAIS, they did not inform their members of this proposed legislation. Chances are the members still have no idea that their freedoms are being given away. I am writing in opposition of the National Animal Identification System because: (1) Should the NAIS become law, we will be forced to pay fees to register our farms and animals. Even with public funding, there will be costs to producers. (Plan, p. 11) (2) We will be forced to report to the national animal records repository within a short-term specified timeframe the birth, death, and loss of identification device, sale, or movement of any animal in our possession. (3) We will be required to report to the national animal records repository when an animal we own attends a livestock show, participates in a trail ride, is transported to another farm for stud service, or takes part in a community parade, etc. (4) Our personal information collected through NAIS could be disclosed - the USDA cannot assure the confidentiality of all the information at the present time. (Plan, p. 15) Financial institutions were not able to keep this information confidential, so it is no surprise that USDA cannot guarantee confidentiality. (5) The NAIS will violate the religious beliefs of minority faith communities by requiring them to become part of this computerized, technology-dependent system or abandon the livestock ownership necessary for their way of life. (Many adherents raise their own food animals and use animals in farming and for transportation. Some, by scriptural teaching, would refuse to take the mark of such a numbering system.) (6) Our livestock would become part of the national herd. (Plan, p. 8) Not only would small farm operators be negatively affected by the NAIS, but this legislation will do serious damage to feed store owners, farm supply houses, hatcheries that sell and ship day-old poultry, and other businesses frequented by farmers. The most common types of meat contamination in the U.S. are the occurrences of pathogens such as Listeria or E. Coli in processed meat. When meat becomes
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [PasturedPigs] NAIS letter
That only falls in line with other policies in the bizzarro world of the federal gubmint:"Clear Skies" initiative that rolls back progress of the clean air actUSA Patriot act that rolls back protection and rights under the constitutionAn unqualified FEMA director who's emails included quotes like "can I quit now?" after Katrina....etc, etc, etc.Why not have a myopic USDA spenda boat loadof dollars tracking thesymptoms rather than theroot cause which, by enlarge, is already known....so what's wrong with feeding livestock the brains and end-trails of their brothers, sisters, cousins and parents anyway?Even if every person on Earth voices dissent against what theUS gubmint is doing, there is still the monumental task of picking a priority and direction. I don't see an end in sight unless everycitizenof every country becomes active and voices their dissent.It's everybody's problem.I just get extremely frustrated trying to figure out how much I can do in betweenanti-racistdemonstrations,fighting for quality K-12 education and programs that promote science and engineering - causes that I've adoptedover the last two years.Thank you. Keep up the good work.By the way, there is no point. I'm venting.Mike Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings,Please call your representatives, senators and everyone you can. This bill includes cats and dogs. And if you think it is about preventing disease, think about this: All of your food will be microchiped! I do know how hard it is to find those microchips and remove them when you butcher, the emu industry used them. We could all wind up with a pound of microchips in our intestines.Bright Blessings,KimWorth reading. Worth thinking about. Worth writing about. Worthfighting.Begin forwarded message:From: "Laura Haggarty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: January 9, 2006 9:39:31 AM ESTHi all,I got this letter from another email list (with permission to cross-postand use), made a few small modifications, and have sent it to my localnewspaper (have already written to my legislators.) I thought you allmight want to send it along to yours: Dear Editors,I am writing to ask the Grant County News to publish my letter in orderto inform their subscribers about the National Animal IdentificationSystem (NAIS) which is currently in its initial stages. This USDA-runprogram has as its goal the registration of every farm animal (includingnon-food animals such as horses) in a centralized government database.This program will require micro chipping of each animal (including allforms of poultry), at the expense of the owner, and a premises ID forevery farm which will be linked to a satellite photo and GlobalPositioning System record (see this link for the USDA website about theprogram: www.usda.gov/nais/)[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
