Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator
John Mullan wrote: I've seen that before. Excellent idea. I wonder how much all that copper, insulation, etc. would cost (for purpose of payback period)? When calculating the 'payback period' be sure to deduct (or add) the cost of a couple of medium term power outages, as folks all across the mid-west have seen over the last few winters. And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator
Hi Chip, You wrote: And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. Some aspects of payback can be difficult to quantify or even anticipate. Gardening: Shovel $37 (US) Rake ($26) Pitchfork ($32) Hoe ($30) Small Hand Tools ($76) Seeds/Plants $__, etc. The experience of gardening; growing your own food: Priceless. While one could argue that vegetable gardening is profitable, what about flower gardens? What about people who grow fruits and vegetables and give most of them away w/o concern for payback period? Some things that are simply joyful ... as in full of joy. We take joy in doing them.. Some take joy in the little dollops of independence that we feel by producing our own food or by getting off the grid. I wouldn't know how to put a price on joy or independence. It certainly is an interesting refrigerator. When I see a creative idea/design implemented by human hands it takes on the qualities of art. Pouring a cold glass of milk from the interesting refrigerator . priceless. Not so much to jump on the question re; payback period for the refrigerator; it is a valid question. They did mention in the section Solar Electricity that they would have had to pay $30,000 to run wiring to their home. It might be that given their situation, the interesting refrigerator made perfect economical sense as well; another example of appropriate technology. Thanks for the original post Kirk. I've been playing around with some ideas for at least pre-heating water going to my boiler (heat hot water)using a solar collector and maybe even my woodstove, to lower the amount of fuel I use. Tom - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator John Mullan wrote: I've seen that before. Excellent idea. I wonder how much all that copper, insulation, etc. would cost (for purpose of payback period)? When calculating the 'payback period' be sure to deduct (or add) the cost of a couple of medium term power outages, as folks all across the mid-west have seen over the last few winters. And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Only in America...
Industry doesn't want to sell them voluntarily, they want to be forced to do so, lest someone else come in with a simpler, more common-sensical alternative. But they do want to sell them, lots of them, for huge prices. That's why they're pushing this industry can do it but perversely refuse to theory. -D - Original Message From: Jason Mier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, 10 January, 2008 7:53:49 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Only in America... i normally dont put much stock in MSN's articles, but this is just too stupid to be a lie... http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=434502 _ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: [SOLAR] The JTEC
If this is made into a practical reality it will transform individual power. And unlike photovoltaics it uses thermal, so even your wood stove does double duty. Kirk Grant Schnebly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie Johnson, the nuclear engineer who brought us the Super Soaker water gun, is working on a solid-state heat engine that promises to convert solar to electric at 60% efficiency. See http://www.johnsonems.com/jhtec.html ___ Solar-concentrator mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eventhorizons.com/mailman/listinfo/solar-concentrator Problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080110/bf4cb6cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd:Aspartame poisoning
Manick Harris wrote: a lot of folks email addresses snipped Subject: Fw: is this true Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:03:56 -0500 other stuff snipped. Subject: is this true SWEET POISON A MUST READ Very interesting read indeed. That said, some fact checking puts this whole letter into question. Parts of it are snipped from transcripts of talks, that aren't very well attributed. I'm all for avoiding these products, no argument there. That said, I find this letter to be a bit too chain-letter like, and it's claims pretty fantastic. a bit of googling tells a larger story. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd:Aspartame poisoning
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello E. Lots of stuff snipped. Nicely done Keith. (as always) keep up the good work! -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators
paper for instance, Bibliography of Water-Fuel Emulsions Studies, lists 23 studies, all with diesels: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf David Blume also reports on the use in Brazil and other countries of blends of 20% castor oil and 80% wet ethanol (4% water) as diesel fuel. Used WVO and castor oil are not the same (and the quality of the WVO surely matters too - higher FFA probably means more water, for one thing). But I think Pagandai's recipe might be a good one just the same: vegetable oil 70%, hydrated (96%) ethanol 10% and biodiesel 20%. There's also the ACREVO study of SVO use, which mentions using 9% of 95% ethyl alcohol with SVO: The overall combustion performance of the rapeseed oil are very satisfactory in comparison with the diesel fuel while the rapeseed oil produces almost 40 % less soot than diesel fuel. The different volatility of this fuel respect to the diesel fuel is responsible of the different behaviour of the sampled gas concentrations in the base of the flames while at the end of the flames, both attain almost the same values. It has been established that an addition of 9 % of ethyl alcohol (95 %) bring a great benefit regarding the pre-heating oil temperature. In fact, the presence of alcohol allows a reduction in the inlet oil temperature from 150 °C to 80 °C. Moreover, the combustion of the emulsion produces less soot and, at the exhaust, the amount is almost one half less than that produced by the combustion of rapeseed oil. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm Advanced Combustion Research for Energy from Vegetable Oils (ACREVO) 3. Could E-85 be substituted for the hydrated ethanol? I've heard of commercial suppliers adding small amounts of gasoline to their diesel. Since the E-85 would only constitute 10% of the mix, the total gasoline would only be .15 X .10 = .0150 (1.5%) I doubt the gasoline would make a difference. Pagandai's blend using E85 could be worth a try, IMHO, especially with a generator, there's a case for it but no guarantees. Start and stop on biodiesel might be safer, though from what ACREVO says it might not be necessary. HTH. Best Keith Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- http.www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com http://partnerpage.google.com/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3217-1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080110/9b76ced7/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators or BD or Blend
and dry ethanol in diesel engines. Most used 50% ethanol, and 25% each of biodiesel and petro-diesel, but Blume says they only used the petro-diesel because it was cheaper than biodiesel at the time and 50-50 alcohol and biodiesel should be fine. He thinks a minimum of 20% biodiesel and 80% alcohol would also be fine, but says it needs testing (with a dynamometer and a knock-meter). What % water would be tolerated? Water in the fuel can be a Good Thing, it improves combustion efficiency and reduces emissions - just as long as it stays in the fuel and doesn't separate. This EPA paper for instance, Bibliography of Water-Fuel Emulsions Studies, lists 23 studies, all with diesels: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf David Blume also reports on the use in Brazil and other countries of blends of 20% castor oil and 80% wet ethanol (4% water) as diesel fuel. Used WVO and castor oil are not the same (and the quality of the WVO surely matters too - higher FFA probably means more water, for one thing). But I think Pagandai's recipe might be a good one just the same: vegetable oil 70%, hydrated (96%) ethanol 10% and biodiesel 20%. There's also the ACREVO study of SVO use, which mentions using 9% of 95% ethyl alcohol with SVO: The overall combustion performance of the rapeseed oil are very satisfactory in comparison with the diesel fuel while the rapeseed oil produces almost 40 % less soot than diesel fuel. The different volatility of this fuel respect to the diesel fuel is responsible of the different behaviour of the sampled gas concentrations in the base of the flames while at the end of the flames, both attain almost the same values. It has been established that an addition of 9 % of ethyl alcohol (95 %) bring a great benefit regarding the pre-heating oil temperature. In fact, the presence of alcohol allows a reduction in the inlet oil temperature from 150 °C to 80 °C. Moreover, the combustion of the emulsion produces less soot and, at the exhaust, the amount is almost one half less than that produced by the combustion of rapeseed oil. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm Advanced Combustion Research for Energy from Vegetable Oils (ACREVO) 3. Could E-85 be substituted for the hydrated ethanol? I've heard of commercial suppliers adding small amounts of gasoline to their diesel. Since the E-85 would only constitute 10% of the mix, the total gasoline would only be .15 X .10 = .0150 (1.5%) I doubt the gasoline would make a difference. Pagandai's blend using E85 could be worth a try, IMHO, especially with a generator, there's a case for it but no guarantees. Start and stop on biodiesel might be safer, though from what ACREVO says it might not be necessary. HTH. Best Keith Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- http.www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com http://partnerpage.google.com/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e Processos DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970 http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage 3215-3769 ramal 210 casa 3217-1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080110/643bca0a/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators or BD or Blend
Pannirselvam, Happy New Year to you from India. Good to see your mail after a long time, but I'm quite confused by it. I thought Keith only reported what YOU wrote earlier on 9/25/2006 (regarding mixing ~20% BD and 5-10% ethanol into (fresh/used) VO to reduce viscosity). Could you please specifically clarify if you or your associates have actually made this kind of mixture work or if you have seen this being done or if you are making a hypothesis that needs experimental verification? Thanks and regards. Chandan Pagandai Pannirselvam wrote: snip Based on what Keith has reported recently, castor oil 20 % can be used to 80 % ethanol hydrated ,I am sure again a significant amount of ethanol can be replaced using SVO with viscosity as the limit,thus there will not be no need for BD in rural areas to run generator. Milled Castor beans can be used extract ethanol from water , then pressed , mixed with the SVO , so taht the engine can run with out engine modification and also without the expensive BD . snip Yours truely Pagandai V pannirselvam 2008/1/7, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Tom Hello All, On 9/25/06 Pagandai Pannirselvan wrote: The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine, removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor maintainence in rural areas. He says with less problem, I'm not sure if that means without problem but it might do. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: Cute Video with important messages
Cute video, 9 min, with some important messages about consumption. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/workplace/73239/ This film was selected for the 2008 Sonoma Environmental Film Festival. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080110/ce08b1b5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] We need these cars
The ZENN (zero emissions no noise) car. Video, 10 min http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M88k6Ipp3c - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080110/58248af2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
