Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again

[Dawie Coetzee]

Keith
>Of course there's a lot to be said 
>for ease of communication, but people tend to see how like us other 
>creatures are or aren't as a measure of their superior worth, or of 
>their uselessness, which is odious.

That applies as much between humans as between humans and other species. How 
often are people of other ethnicities not seen as somehow not quite up to 
scratch simply because they aren't comfortable in one's language? This is 
the well-known origin of the word barbarian. It goes as far as 
actively teaching oppressed people to speak badly: I think of the pidgin 
Afrikaans that black people were expected to speak here during apartheid, and 
still are in some quarters. Bantu Education involved teaching children that "Ek 
gan hallom die foshol vor Baas" is the way one speaks Afrikaans, and the result 
then held forth as obvious proof that the people are intellectually inferior. 
Parallel instances can be found throughout the history of colonization.
Odious indeed.
Regards
Dawie


  __
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080514/d2af867a/attachment.html 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards

[Darryl McMahon]

Well, somebody has to support hydrogen (and it isn't me).  Wired 
Magazine isn't enamoured of it anymore either.

"Hydrogen Cars Won't Make a Difference for 40 Years"
http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2008/05/hydrogen

Regarding the Lehman Bros. article.  I can see a slow down in the U.S. 
economy reducing the demand for gasoline and diesel (and therefore oil), 
but I don't see how bringing on more refinery capacity will reduce the 
demand for oil.  If refinery capacity was a real bottleneck, the price 
of oil should be going down while the price of gasoline rises 
considerably faster than diesel (less fractional distillation required 
for diesel).  Personally, I think the growing economies in China, India 
and elsewhere will more than take up that slack in supplies fairly 
quickly.

To my mind, there are other factors at play than simple supply and 
demand, or perhaps I should say other players are driving the visible facts.

Darryl McMahon

Robin&Leigh Termath wrote:
> But we still like hydrogen...
> Robin
> 
> 
> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>
>> Thanks Kirk. Let's put it in the archives. We were
>> way ahead with 
>> this - there is no oil shortage, there's no food
>> shortage either.
>>
>> I thought you meant this Lehman's:
>> http://www.lehmans.com/
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards
>>
>> Friday, April 25, 2008 5:56 p.m. EDT
>>
>> Is $120 oil even real? Not if you ask the Saudis, or
>> even Lehman Bros.
>>
>> The investment bank's oil expert said this week that
>> the oil boom is 
>> due to bust. Economic growth across the globe will
>> slow just as new 
>> refineries kick in, raising supply.
>>
>> Recession or not, a U.S. slowdown will slacken
>> demand sharply, right 
>> as new oil hits the market. "Supply is outpacing
>> demand growth," said 
>> Michael Waldron, Lehman's oil strategist.
>>
>> "Inventories have been building since the beginning
>> of the year. We 
>> have pretty significant projects starting soon in
>> Saudi Arabia, and 
>> large off-shore fields in Nigeria," he said.
>>
>> Lehman is now predicting prices at $83 a barrel in
>> 2009 and as low as 
>> $70 in 2010.
>>
>> Although some years off, Brazil too has found as
>> much as 8 billion 
>> barrels of light oil and gas offshore. The South
>> American giant's 
>> president says his country might well join OPEC when
>> the Tupi field 
>> begins to pump, in 2011.
>>
>> In addition, Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds
>> have pushed up the 
>> oil price by investing billions of their oil gains,
>> ironically, in 
>> commodities index funds.
>>
>> Now they could be looking to get out, warns Waldron.
>> He figures the 
>> money effect has driven anywhere from $20 to $30
>> into the barrel 
>> price.
>>
>> In addition, a weak dollar is holding oil prices
>> high, according to a 
>> series of statements from OPEC leaders over the past
>> week.
>>
>> If you buy the views of OPEC's various leaders,
>> that's at least 
>> another $20 of oil price that is not supported by
>> the actual supply 
>> and demand situation.
>>
>> In addition, Europe's central bank seems bent on
>> containing inflation 
>> there. A rate increase in Europe is sure to contain
>> the euro's rise 
>> against the dollar - if serious steps are taken
>> soon.
>>
>> Couple that with a lower-than-expected rate cut in
>> the U.S. next 
>> week, or perhaps no cut, and the oil price drops as
>> the dollar gains 
>> ground.
>>
>> All this is having little immediate impact now, of
>> course. U.S. gas 
>> prices at the pump hit $3.58 a gallon just as the
>> summer driving 
>> season kicks off.
>>
>> If nothing changes, analysts now expect gas to rise
>> to as high as $4 
>> a gallon in as little as a month.
>>

-- 
Darryl McMahon
Are high energy costs getting you down?  The hydrogen economy is not
going to save us.  Want to know what will?

The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (in trade paperback and eBook)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards

[Robin&Leigh Termath]

But we still like hydrogen...
Robin


--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
> 
> Thanks Kirk. Let's put it in the archives. We were
> way ahead with 
> this - there is no oil shortage, there's no food
> shortage either.
> 
> I thought you meant this Lehman's:
> http://www.lehmans.com/
> 
> :-)
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards
> 
> Friday, April 25, 2008 5:56 p.m. EDT
> 
> Is $120 oil even real? Not if you ask the Saudis, or
> even Lehman Bros.
> 
> The investment bank's oil expert said this week that
> the oil boom is 
> due to bust. Economic growth across the globe will
> slow just as new 
> refineries kick in, raising supply.
> 
> Recession or not, a U.S. slowdown will slacken
> demand sharply, right 
> as new oil hits the market. "Supply is outpacing
> demand growth," said 
> Michael Waldron, Lehman's oil strategist.
> 
> "Inventories have been building since the beginning
> of the year. We 
> have pretty significant projects starting soon in
> Saudi Arabia, and 
> large off-shore fields in Nigeria," he said.
> 
> Lehman is now predicting prices at $83 a barrel in
> 2009 and as low as 
> $70 in 2010.
> 
> Although some years off, Brazil too has found as
> much as 8 billion 
> barrels of light oil and gas offshore. The South
> American giant's 
> president says his country might well join OPEC when
> the Tupi field 
> begins to pump, in 2011.
> 
> In addition, Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds
> have pushed up the 
> oil price by investing billions of their oil gains,
> ironically, in 
> commodities index funds.
> 
> Now they could be looking to get out, warns Waldron.
> He figures the 
> money effect has driven anywhere from $20 to $30
> into the barrel 
> price.
> 
> In addition, a weak dollar is holding oil prices
> high, according to a 
> series of statements from OPEC leaders over the past
> week.
> 
> If you buy the views of OPEC's various leaders,
> that's at least 
> another $20 of oil price that is not supported by
> the actual supply 
> and demand situation.
> 
> In addition, Europe's central bank seems bent on
> containing inflation 
> there. A rate increase in Europe is sure to contain
> the euro's rise 
> against the dollar - if serious steps are taken
> soon.
> 
> Couple that with a lower-than-expected rate cut in
> the U.S. next 
> week, or perhaps no cut, and the oil price drops as
> the dollar gains 
> ground.
> 
> All this is having little immediate impact now, of
> course. U.S. gas 
> prices at the pump hit $3.58 a gallon just as the
> summer driving 
> season kicks off.
> 
> If nothing changes, analysts now expect gas to rise
> to as high as $4 
> a gallon in as little as a month.
> 
> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
> archives (70,000 messages):
>
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 



  

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again

[Keith Addison]

Hi Chip

>Keith Addison wrote:
>|>  How about Neo-con Fascist.
>|>
>|> Chris
>|
>| That sounds serviceable. I suppose some people would stick "pig" on
>| the end, it fits quite well. Fine critters, pigs. I never met a pig
>| who was a Fascist. I think Orwell gave them a bad press.
>|
>| Best
>|
>| Keith
>
>Agreed.

The dogs could have played the pigs' role too. Like the hyena in The 
Island of Dr Moreau movie: "Good doggie." Bang!

>That said, they are more like us (home sapiens sapiens) than
>just about everybody (all critters) else, other than our 2 chimp cousins.

Yes. But then I'm not sure that's much of a measure of anything much 
other than ease of communication. Of course there's a lot to be said 
for ease of communication, but people tend to see how like us other 
creatures are or aren't as a measure of their superior worth, or of 
their uselessness, which is odious. Anyway, communication isn't that 
difficult if you try, even with creatures who're not like us at all.

>That said, considering us, who knows what they would be
>like if they had hands!

:-) Well, we can see what politicians are like when you give them troughs.

Best

Keith

>:)


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards

[Keith Addison]

>

Thanks Kirk. Let's put it in the archives. We were way ahead with 
this - there is no oil shortage, there's no food shortage either.

I thought you meant this Lehman's:
http://www.lehmans.com/

:-)

Best

Keith


Lehman Bros. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards

Friday, April 25, 2008 5:56 p.m. EDT

Is $120 oil even real? Not if you ask the Saudis, or even Lehman Bros.

The investment bank's oil expert said this week that the oil boom is 
due to bust. Economic growth across the globe will slow just as new 
refineries kick in, raising supply.

Recession or not, a U.S. slowdown will slacken demand sharply, right 
as new oil hits the market. "Supply is outpacing demand growth," said 
Michael Waldron, Lehman's oil strategist.

"Inventories have been building since the beginning of the year. We 
have pretty significant projects starting soon in Saudi Arabia, and 
large off-shore fields in Nigeria," he said.

Lehman is now predicting prices at $83 a barrel in 2009 and as low as 
$70 in 2010.

Although some years off, Brazil too has found as much as 8 billion 
barrels of light oil and gas offshore. The South American giant's 
president says his country might well join OPEC when the Tupi field 
begins to pump, in 2011.

In addition, Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds have pushed up the 
oil price by investing billions of their oil gains, ironically, in 
commodities index funds.

Now they could be looking to get out, warns Waldron. He figures the 
money effect has driven anywhere from $20 to $30 into the barrel 
price.

In addition, a weak dollar is holding oil prices high, according to a 
series of statements from OPEC leaders over the past week.

If you buy the views of OPEC's various leaders, that's at least 
another $20 of oil price that is not supported by the actual supply 
and demand situation.

In addition, Europe's central bank seems bent on containing inflation 
there. A rate increase in Europe is sure to contain the euro's rise 
against the dollar - if serious steps are taken soon.

Couple that with a lower-than-expected rate cut in the U.S. next 
week, or perhaps no cut, and the oil price drops as the dollar gains 
ground.

All this is having little immediate impact now, of course. U.S. gas 
prices at the pump hit $3.58 a gallon just as the summer driving 
season kicks off.

If nothing changes, analysts now expect gas to rise to as high as $4 
a gallon in as little as a month.


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/