Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Aleksander Kac]

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/resources/index.html#greenhouses

This chap wrote a book. I ordered it last week, but I can't comment as amazon 
says it'll take another
two weeks to get here. I just built a hybrid (well, bigger than a cold frame 
and not a full size
greenhouse) last weekend. It will be unheated. I've looked up some information 
on the internet
regarding greenhouses, as my sweatheart has a strong interest in veggie 
gardening in winter and the
accompanied financial benefits, specially during winter. There seem to be two 
schools of thought:
using heated greenhouses and unheated greenhouses. 
For starters I made this small thing, 2,5 by 1,5 metres, about 1,5 metres tall, 
both roofs sloping.
Sadly its burried under one and a half feet of snow today ... winter came in 
early this year. Next year I'm
planning a bigger, walk in greenhouse. It'll be unheated, as we don't aspire to 
tomatoes in winter.
This year we got salad greens in the "hybrid". I'm quite confident it'll work 
fine, as in the
previos winter our winter lettuce survided quite nicely under more than 2 feet 
of snow just
covered with gardening fabric. But that was just surviving, not growing. We're 
hoping for more with this
new setup.

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Rob Hayes]

h all year or nearly all year.



Any thoughts?

Dan



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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Bruno M.]

Hi Dan,

you may like to explore this website,
lots of idea's, plans and/or links to it.
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Sunspace/sunspaces.htm


Have you or others have been thinking about insulation?
With soap bubbles?

An invention ( or development) from a Canadian guy named Richard Nelson,
he is the founder of the Sola Roof movement.( Open Source)

http://www.solaroof.org/wiki/SolaRoof/RichardNelson
http://www.solaroof.org/wiki/SolaRoof/SolaRoof
How it looks: http://www.solaroof.org/wiki/SolaRoof/SolaRoofTech
His own You Tube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SolaRoof

And an accompanying YahooGroup:  
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/solaroof/
( tip: check also their "Files section")


More info on soap Bubble Insolution of greenhouses:

http://www.solaripedia.com/13/231/solaroof_keeps_it_cool_and_hot_%28canada%29.html

http://www.solarbubblebuild.com/overview/overview.php
 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9141143967660224381#

http://www.tdc.ca/bubblegreenhouse.htm

http://www.midwestpermaculture.com/GreenhouseDescription.php


Grts
Bruno M.


Op 1-12-2010 5:43, Dan Beukelman schreef:

Hello All,
> I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> lurking in the shadows I guess.
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
> read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
> than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
> Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
> able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
> but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
> greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
> useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
> thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan
===

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[deborah howard]

I'm just getting into thinking about winter gardening and live in Connecticut, 
vastly different from South Dakota.  In the spring I want to erect a high 
tunnel, and according to Eliot Coleman (check out his books) who lives in Maine 
and does winter gardening, the trick is to plant hardy greens for the winter 
season.  He doesn't heat his space, but uses high tunnel, with low tunnel 
inside or a cold frame type structure over the plants for double protection 
from freezing.

Growing tomatoes in winter sounds so expensive because they are such a hot 
weather crop.  They don't even like high 40's. (Mine didn't anyway)  
Good luck and I just love the topic!!

On Dec 1, 2010, at 1:37 PM, doug wrote:

> For the last several years I've been contemplating building a 
> greenhouse, not merely to extend the growing season, but also, like you, 
> to grow vegetables around the calendar year.  I've collected a number of 
> pieces of mismatched glass panes, and last year helped my neighbor 
> replace a number of dual-pane pieces he had in his livingroom that had 
> lost their seal.  He let me have the old ones, which I then separated.  
> I also acquired a good supply of lumber, free for the taking, and stored 
> that until I worked out the design of the greenhouse I wanted to use.  I 
> dug trenches where the walls were to be installed, and using large 
> blocks of styrofoam scavenged from a hot tub cover, insulated under the 
> walls by placing the styrofoam pieces into the trenches.  in the middle 
> of the greenhouse floor, I shoveled a hole large enough to lay 2 55 
> gallon drums, which were then plumbed in series and out under the rear 
> wall of the greenhouse to a location where the solar concentrator will 
> heat water that will be pumped into the drums for radiant floor heat.  
> The amount of electricity required to move the concentrator to follow 
> the sun and the small 12 volt sump pump for circulating the water will 
> be minimal.
> 
> The dimensions of the greenhouse are 12' x 12', a size determined by the 
> size of the glass panes I was given.  They are tempered glass, and I 
> can't do anything about their size with the tools I have.  (It can't be 
> cut by normal glass cutting techniques)  I had considered using SunTuff, 
> but the price of it was well out of my range.
> 
> The solar concentrator is a 10' satellite dish, with 4" square mirrors 
> glued to the surface.  the "boiler" at the focus is a small 
> "reconstructed" pressure tank that is mounted on a 1/2" pipe measured to 
> the length of the focal distance from the center of the concentrator.  
> The majority of the tracking is done with the linear actuator that was 
> already a part of the satellite dish.  Additional electronics that 
> observe the sky and a comparator that moves the actuator according to 
> the brightness level falling upon the 2 sensors keeps the dish aligned 
> with the sun as it moves across the sky.
> 
> Because I'm using single pane glass, I do lose a lot of heat at night, 
> but I am building insulating panels from corrugated cardboard (laminated 
> at 90 degrees to each other) for stability, a layer of fiberglass 
> insulation, and wrapped in plastic to hold it together.  magnets 
> embedded in the cardboard pieces align with screw heads in the 
> greenhouse framing, such that the panels stay in place when set, but are 
> also easily removed when the night is over.  It's not automatic, but 
> since I am hoping to spend next winter living in the greenhouse, that's 
> not an issue.  It will be like opening the curtains on a house in the 
> morning.
> 
> As I near the completion of the entire system, (including composting in 
> the air intake vent to provide additional CO2 for the plants) I find 
> that I've spent less than $300 for all of it.  It has taken some time to 
> find the materials I need, but by keeping an eye on what other people 
> are willing to throw away well before it deserves to be, (and having 
> plenty of barn space to store such materials in) I've been able to get 
> most of the materials for the taking.  In fact, a friend came by the 
> other day, and picked up the rest of the glass I had collected and 
> hadn't used for a larger greenhouse he's wanting to build to provide 
> fresh vegetables for his family throughout the year.
> 
> The Rodale Press published book "The Solar Greenhouse Book" has provided 
> me with plenty of ideas and experiences of others who have had similar 
> desires.  I recommend it.  (I found my copy at the local thrift store 
> for a dollar)
> 
> I wish you all the best in your project.  I thoroughly enjoy working in 
> my greenhouse on a chilly windy morning and absorbing the sun and 
> humidity that it provides for me once the sun is shining into it.
> 
> I'm not nearly as far north as you are, I live in N Georgia, but I am in 
> a mountainous area, and we do get winter here too.
> 
> Well, I'm off to dig through my neighbor's plumbing parts, just a few 
> connections

Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[doug]

For the last several years I've been contemplating building a 
greenhouse, not merely to extend the growing season, but also, like you, 
to grow vegetables around the calendar year.  I've collected a number of 
pieces of mismatched glass panes, and last year helped my neighbor 
replace a number of dual-pane pieces he had in his livingroom that had 
lost their seal.  He let me have the old ones, which I then separated.  
I also acquired a good supply of lumber, free for the taking, and stored 
that until I worked out the design of the greenhouse I wanted to use.  I 
dug trenches where the walls were to be installed, and using large 
blocks of styrofoam scavenged from a hot tub cover, insulated under the 
walls by placing the styrofoam pieces into the trenches.  in the middle 
of the greenhouse floor, I shoveled a hole large enough to lay 2 55 
gallon drums, which were then plumbed in series and out under the rear 
wall of the greenhouse to a location where the solar concentrator will 
heat water that will be pumped into the drums for radiant floor heat.  
The amount of electricity required to move the concentrator to follow 
the sun and the small 12 volt sump pump for circulating the water will 
be minimal.

The dimensions of the greenhouse are 12' x 12', a size determined by the 
size of the glass panes I was given.  They are tempered glass, and I 
can't do anything about their size with the tools I have.  (It can't be 
cut by normal glass cutting techniques)  I had considered using SunTuff, 
but the price of it was well out of my range.

The solar concentrator is a 10' satellite dish, with 4" square mirrors 
glued to the surface.  the "boiler" at the focus is a small 
"reconstructed" pressure tank that is mounted on a 1/2" pipe measured to 
the length of the focal distance from the center of the concentrator.  
The majority of the tracking is done with the linear actuator that was 
already a part of the satellite dish.  Additional electronics that 
observe the sky and a comparator that moves the actuator according to 
the brightness level falling upon the 2 sensors keeps the dish aligned 
with the sun as it moves across the sky.

Because I'm using single pane glass, I do lose a lot of heat at night, 
but I am building insulating panels from corrugated cardboard (laminated 
at 90 degrees to each other) for stability, a layer of fiberglass 
insulation, and wrapped in plastic to hold it together.  magnets 
embedded in the cardboard pieces align with screw heads in the 
greenhouse framing, such that the panels stay in place when set, but are 
also easily removed when the night is over.  It's not automatic, but 
since I am hoping to spend next winter living in the greenhouse, that's 
not an issue.  It will be like opening the curtains on a house in the 
morning.

As I near the completion of the entire system, (including composting in 
the air intake vent to provide additional CO2 for the plants) I find 
that I've spent less than $300 for all of it.  It has taken some time to 
find the materials I need, but by keeping an eye on what other people 
are willing to throw away well before it deserves to be, (and having 
plenty of barn space to store such materials in) I've been able to get 
most of the materials for the taking.  In fact, a friend came by the 
other day, and picked up the rest of the glass I had collected and 
hadn't used for a larger greenhouse he's wanting to build to provide 
fresh vegetables for his family throughout the year.

The Rodale Press published book "The Solar Greenhouse Book" has provided 
me with plenty of ideas and experiences of others who have had similar 
desires.  I recommend it.  (I found my copy at the local thrift store 
for a dollar)

I wish you all the best in your project.  I thoroughly enjoy working in 
my greenhouse on a chilly windy morning and absorbing the sun and 
humidity that it provides for me once the sun is shining into it.

I'm not nearly as far north as you are, I live in N Georgia, but I am in 
a mountainous area, and we do get winter here too.

Well, I'm off to dig through my neighbor's plumbing parts, just a few 
connections, and I'll be pumping solar heat under my greenhouse floors 
in the next day or so!

doug swanson



Dan Beukelman wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> lurking in the shadows I guess.
>
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
> read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
> than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato

Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[AltEnergyNetwork]

Yes, the critiques that I heard were similar. That is, most of his principles 
are some good basics
for a south west climate and similar zones but fell far short of being 
efficient for colder areas. I believe he was from Arizona or New Mexico. It can 
certainly get cold there at times but nothing like Edmonton or Northern 
Ontario. Your parents house in Wash. is a good example of taking some of these 
earlier designs and "beefing them up" for colder climates. He was also 
certainly not the first to refine the Trombe wall or using mass for energy 
storage. Some of his ideas hold up quite well with some modern tweeks (and 
backup!).You can always get new ideas from old techniques.



>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming
>  Sent: 01 Dec '10 18:10
>  
>  I have Mazria's book too.  Regarding the colder climatesalot of the
>  earlier passive solar design ('70's) was for the desert southwest of the US
>  -- still a fairly cold climate in the winter compared to coastal california
>  (snow and frost is not uncommon, though it doesn't usually accumulate much
>  if any), but not the pacific northwest or northeast, or Canada for sure.
>  I think that later designs realized that you can still do passive solar in
>  much colder, less sunny, climates, but that is does require more control and
>  better insulation.  My parents' house in Washington uses alot of those
>  designs from the Mazria book and would be awesome in northern new mexico --
>  and on the rare sunny day in the winter there, it does heat itself quite
>  well, but that's only about 8 days between November and March
>  
>  On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM, AltEnergyNetwork <
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  >
>  > hmm, I believe I have that book but it's called "Passive solar energy book"
>  > by Edward Mazria copyright 1979
>  > Rodale Press.  ISBN 0-87857-238-4
>  >
>  > starting p289, there is a lot of info on thermal storage wall systems and
>  > spaces
>  >  adjacent to an attached greenhouse. One of the better earlier books but
>  > some of his ideas were later discredited for being insufficient in colder
>  > climates.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > >  ---Original Message---
>  > >  From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > >  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  > >  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming
>  > >  Sent: 01 Dec '10 16:46
>  > >
>  > >  I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating"
>  > >  published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or
>  > >  Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and
>  > >  Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on
>  > >  homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar
>  > >  heating"? Can you provide a url?
>  > >
>  > >  Keith
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  >If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made
>  > the
>  > >  >greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the
>  > >  >light from
>  > >  >the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously.
>  > >  >The wall on
>  > >  >the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point
>  > of field
>  > >  >and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive
>  > >  >solar rooms as
>  > >  >in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out
>  > >  >reflector which is
>  > >  >insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is
>  > >  >more comparable
>  > >  >to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
>  > >  >
>  > >  >Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available
>  > Radiation)
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  ___
>  >
>  > >  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000
>  > messages):
>  > >  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  >
>  > >Search-View 1000's of Alternative Energy+Related Green Tech Videos
>  > http://www.alternate-energy.net/sb/vids/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 

Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Zeke Yewdall]

I have Mazria's book too.  Regarding the colder climatesalot of the
earlier passive solar design ('70's) was for the desert southwest of the US
-- still a fairly cold climate in the winter compared to coastal california
(snow and frost is not uncommon, though it doesn't usually accumulate much
if any), but not the pacific northwest or northeast, or Canada for sure.
 I think that later designs realized that you can still do passive solar in
much colder, less sunny, climates, but that is does require more control and
better insulation.  My parents' house in Washington uses alot of those
designs from the Mazria book and would be awesome in northern new mexico --
and on the rare sunny day in the winter there, it does heat itself quite
well, but that's only about 8 days between November and March

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM, AltEnergyNetwork <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> hmm, I believe I have that book but it's called "Passive solar energy book"
> by Edward Mazria copyright 1979
> Rodale Press.  ISBN 0-87857-238-4
>
> starting p289, there is a lot of info on thermal storage wall systems and
> spaces
>  adjacent to an attached greenhouse. One of the better earlier books but
> some of his ideas were later discredited for being insufficient in colder
> climates.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> >  ---Original Message---
> >  From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming
> >  Sent: 01 Dec '10 16:46
> >
> >  I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating"
> >  published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or
> >  Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and
> >  Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on
> >  homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar
> >  heating"? Can you provide a url?
> >
> >  Keith
> >
> >
> >  >If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made
> the
> >  >greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the
> >  >light from
> >  >the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously.
> >  >The wall on
> >  >the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point
> of field
> >  >and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive
> >  >solar rooms as
> >  >in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out
> >  >reflector which is
> >  >insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is
> >  >more comparable
> >  >to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
> >  >
> >  >Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available
> Radiation)
> >
> >
> >  ___
>
> >  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000
> messages):
> >  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
> >Search-View 1000's of Alternative Energy+Related Green Tech Videos
> http://www.alternate-energy.net/sb/vids/
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Zeke Yewdall]

I've been in one of their greenhouses, in Estes Park.  Pretty nice... though
I'm not sure how well it would do without supplimental heat.  The one I was
in had four 4x8 foot solar thermal collectors heating the pond in it, plus
an electric backup heater.  The dome shape is elegant visually, and lets
alot of omnidirectional light in for good plant growth, but from a solar
control standpoint, not so much too much glazing not facing the winter
sun leaks out heat, and no ability to control overheating in the summer very
easily (shade cloth wrapped over the top of it in the summer...).

Z

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:46 AM, David Penfold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> These chaps do geodesic greenhouses:
>
> http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/features.php
>
> They're hideously expensive, but I think you could incorporate some of the
> properties into a far simpler passive solar design.
>
> David
>
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>
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> messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[AltEnergyNetwork]

hmm, I believe I have that book but it's called "Passive solar energy book" by 
Edward Mazria copyright 1979
Rodale Press.  ISBN 0-87857-238-4

starting p289, there is a lot of info on thermal storage wall systems and spaces
 adjacent to an attached greenhouse. One of the better earlier books but some 
of his ideas were later discredited for being insufficient in colder climates.








>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming
>  Sent: 01 Dec '10 16:46
>  
>  I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating"
>  published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or
>  Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and
>  Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on
>  homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar
>  heating"? Can you provide a url?
>  
>  Keith
>  
>  
>  >If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the
>  >greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the
>  >light from
>  >the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously.
>  >The wall on
>  >the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of 
> field
>  >and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive
>  >solar rooms as
>  >in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out
>  >reflector which is
>  >insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is
>  >more comparable
>  >to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
>  >
>  >Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available 
> Radiation)
>  
>  
>  ___

>  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

>Search-View 1000's of Alternative Energy+Related Green Tech Videos
 http://www.alternate-energy.net/sb/vids/



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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Keith Addison]

Hi Greg

>I'm working on some projects here in Pittsburgh on greenhouses, 
>bioshelters and urban hightunnels. I'd be willing to chat with 
>you/contribute to the threads.

For my part, I'm not up for chatting - too far away (in Japan), and 
it's too late anyway (3 am). But please contribute onlist.

All best

Keith


>Greg
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>On Dec 1, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>  I'm very interested in all this. There's nothing at the Journey to
>>  Forever website about greenhouses, and I've had some questions about
>>  it, so I'm planning to make a new section on greenhouses, But I don't
>>  have any experience of them.
>>
>>  I had a smallish polytunnel once, which worked quite well, but it was
>>  primitive. I have an old book called "Build Your Own Greenhouse", but
>>  it was written 50 years ago and I think hardware materials have
>>  changed a lot in that time. And anyway, I don't want to build one, I
>>  just need to know more about them.
>>
>>  So I'm interested in hearing any and all views and experiences of
>>  greenhouses, please keep it coming!
>>
>>  I also have two old books on cloche gardening, "Continuous Cloche
>>  Gardening" by W.E. Shewell-Cooper, and  "Cloche Gardening" by J.L.H.
>>  Chase. Does anybody do cloche gardening these days?
>>
>>  All best
>>
>  > Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Keith Addison]

Hi Zeke

>This the one that I have
>http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Greenhouse-Book-James-McCullagh/dp/0878571981/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=129148&sr=1-1

Thankyou!

Rodale, hmphh... No apparent catalogue anymore, and their site search 
for "solar" and for "greenhouse" found nothing: "We could not find 
any matches for your search".

Your Amazon link also has this, also by Rodale:

The Homeowner's Complete Handbook for Add-On Solar Greenhouses & 
Sunspaces: Planning, Design, Construction
Publisher: Rodale Pr; First Edition edition (March 1985)
http://www.amazon.com/Homeowners-Complete-Handbook-Greenhouses-Sunspaces/dp/0878575073/ref=pd_sim_b_1

I thiunk the McCullagh book's the one though.

Thanks again

Best

Keith


>On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Keith Addison 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>>  I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating"
>>  published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or
>>  Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and
>>  Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on
>>  homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar
>>  heating"? Can you provide a url?
>>
>>  Keith
>>
>>
>>  >If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the
>>  >greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the
>>  >light from
>>  >the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously.
>>  >The wall on
>>  >the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of
>>  field
>>  >and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive
>>  >solar rooms as
>>  >in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out
>>  >reflector which is
>>  >insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is
>>  >more comparable
>>  >to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
>>  >
>>  >Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available
>  > Radiation)


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[David Penfold]

These chaps do geodesic greenhouses:

http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/features.php

They're hideously expensive, but I think you could incorporate some of the 
properties into a far simpler passive solar design.

David
  
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Re: [Biofuel] The 'Transition Town' Movement's Initial Genius

[Keith Addison]

Hi Chip

Glad it's useful.

And good for you - I'm sure you won't regret this decision. A lot of 
people are moving in that direction, and I don't hear any complaints, 
unless comments like "hard work - but it's worth it!" are complaints.

This might be of interest - or maybe not, I don't know how to judge it:

  7 Towns Where Land is Free
By Colleen Kane, CNBC.com
Nov 17, 2010


All best

Keith


>  >- Original Message -
>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:40:54 PM
>>Subject: [Biofuel] The 'Transition Town' Movement's Initial Genius
>>
>>http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/11/29-7
>>
>>Published on Monday, November 29, 2010 by CommonDreams.org
>>
>>The 'Transition Town' Movement's Initial Genius
>
>Very interesting Keith,
>and quite timely.
>
>With the change in wind here in the US, particularly in my home state
>of WV (a third world country inside the US) I decided that my home state
>was no longer as viable a place to live out my years as I had hoped,
>the very few progressive gains made, having just been pretty much wiped
>out with, , well, enough of that.
>
>Anyway, I started casting about for another place to live.
>
>One of the first things i did was order Rob Hopkin's Transition
>Handbook, and read it cover to cover. And since I am already
>involved in PASA (pennsylvania assoc for sustainable agriculture)
>and getting more and more involved with each passing year,
>Started digging around for transitions initiatives in Pa.
>
>Am now searching for land.
>
>I'm tired of trying to explain myself all of the time, over
>and over again. I have a lot I can teach, and I have a lot
>to learn, and I'm really looking forward to real people
>doing real stuff, on a daily basis, instead of just
>every now and again.


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Zeke Yewdall]

This the one that I have
http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Greenhouse-Book-James-McCullagh/dp/0878571981/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=129148&sr=1-1

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating"
> published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or
> Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and
> Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on
> homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar
> heating"? Can you provide a url?
>
> Keith
>
>
> >If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the
> >greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the
> >light from
> >the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously.
> >The wall on
> >the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of
> field
> >and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive
> >solar rooms as
> >in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out
> >reflector which is
> >insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is
> >more comparable
> >to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
> >
> >Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available
> Radiation)
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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> messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Greg B]

I'm working on some projects here in Pittsburgh on greenhouses, bioshelters and 
urban hightunnels. I'd be willing to chat with you/contribute to the threads. 

Greg

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Dec 1, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm very interested in all this. There's nothing at the Journey to 
> Forever website about greenhouses, and I've had some questions about 
> it, so I'm planning to make a new section on greenhouses, But I don't 
> have any experience of them.
> 
> I had a smallish polytunnel once, which worked quite well, but it was 
> primitive. I have an old book called "Build Your Own Greenhouse", but 
> it was written 50 years ago and I think hardware materials have 
> changed a lot in that time. And anyway, I don't want to build one, I 
> just need to know more about them.
> 
> So I'm interested in hearing any and all views and experiences of 
> greenhouses, please keep it coming!
> 
> I also have two old books on cloche gardening, "Continuous Cloche 
> Gardening" by W.E. Shewell-Cooper, and  "Cloche Gardening" by J.L.H. 
> Chase. Does anybody do cloche gardening these days?
> 
> All best
> 
> Keith
> 
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
> 
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Keith Addison]

I can't find any record of a book called "Passive solar heating" 
published by Rodale (or anybody else) at Rodale, Amazon, ABE or 
Alibris. There are a couple of books published by Chelsea Green and 
Elsevier with "passive solar" in the title, but they're focused on 
homes, not greenhouses. Are you sure it's called "Passive solar 
heating"? Can you provide a url?

Keith


>If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the
>greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the 
>light from
>the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously. 
>The wall on
>the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of field
>and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive 
>solar rooms as
>in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out 
>reflector which is
>insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is 
>more comparable
>to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
>
>Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available Radiation)


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Darryl McMahon]

Nuts.  Apparently I was having finger trouble with cutting and pasting 
this morning.

OK, they should be:

http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
 


and

http://www.climatetemp.info/canada/ottawa-ontario.html

Keith, thanks for noticing that.

While we're on the subject of weather, there is a steady rain falling 
outside - day 2 of 3 per last night's forecast, and somewhere between 50 
and 70 mm expected before we are done.  However, I'm grateful it's 
coming down as the 'rains of November', and not snow.  70 cm (28 inches) 
of the white stuff would be a bit overwhelming just now.

Darryl

On 01/12/2010 11:28 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Those two weather urls are the same Darryl.
>
> Keith
>
>
>> This company supplies tomatoes to local stores year-round in Ottawa,
>> Ontario, Canada.
>>
>> http://www.suntech.ca/
>>
>> You might want to investigate how they do things.
>>
>> Looks like average temperatures are pretty comparable for SD and Ottawa
>> over the course of the year (comparing
>> http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
>> to
>> http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103).
>>
>> Darryl
>>
>> On 30/11/2010 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
>>>   Hello All,
>>>
>>>   I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
>>>   lurking in the shadows I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
>>>   production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
>>>   South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and 
>>> the
>>>   right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
>>>   be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I 
>>> have
>>>   read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
>>>   than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
>>>   foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
>>>   Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should 
>>> be
>>>   able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
>>>   but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
>>>   greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
>>>   useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
>>>   thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>   Dan
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Darryl McMahon
>> The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (eBook and trade paper)
>> http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Keith Addison]

Those two weather urls are the same Darryl.

Keith


>This company supplies tomatoes to local stores year-round in Ottawa,
>Ontario, Canada.
>
>http://www.suntech.ca/
>
>You might want to investigate how the do things.
>
>Looks like average temperatures are pretty comparable for SD and Ottawa
>over the course of the year (comparing
>http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
>to
>http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103).
>
>Darryl
>
>On 30/11/2010 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
>>  Hello All,
>>
>>  I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
>>  lurking in the shadows I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>>  I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
>>  production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
>>  South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
>>  right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
>>  be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
>>  read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
>>  than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
>>  foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
>>  Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
>>  able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
>>  but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
>>  greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
>>  useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
>>  thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Any thoughts?
>>
>>  Dan
>>
>
>--
>Darryl McMahon
>The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (eBook and trade paper)
>http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/


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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Keith Addison]

I'm very interested in all this. There's nothing at the Journey to 
Forever website about greenhouses, and I've had some questions about 
it, so I'm planning to make a new section on greenhouses, But I don't 
have any experience of them.

I had a smallish polytunnel once, which worked quite well, but it was 
primitive. I have an old book called "Build Your Own Greenhouse", but 
it was written 50 years ago and I think hardware materials have 
changed a lot in that time. And anyway, I don't want to build one, I 
just need to know more about them.

So I'm interested in hearing any and all views and experiences of 
greenhouses, please keep it coming!

I also have two old books on cloche gardening, "Continuous Cloche 
Gardening" by W.E. Shewell-Cooper, and  "Cloche Gardening" by J.L.H. 
Chase. Does anybody do cloche gardening these days?

All best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Zeke Yewdall]

There's a greenhouse here in boulder colorado that has aledgedly only needed
auxiliary heat for about 6 hours in the last 20 years to stay above freezing
year round -- not quite as cold a climate as the dakotas for sure, but a
pretty cold winter still.  It's built into the ground, with only the south
facing glass showing - -everything else is well insulated and buried, and
with lots of thermal mass (water barrels IIRC, under the planter beds).   I
can't remember if it was single or double paned glass but I think double.
 Harlequin gardens is the name of the place, though I don't know if their
website has much about the greenhouse.

Most greenhouses here don't use glass at all any more, but the twinwall or
multiwall polycarbonate.

Z

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:51 AM, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the
> greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the light
> from
> the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously. The
> wall on
> the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of
> field
> and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive solar
> rooms as
> in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out reflector
> which is
> insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is more
> comparable
> to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat.
>
> Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available
> Radiation)
>  "
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 6:42:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming
>
> This company supplies tomatoes to local stores year-round in Ottawa,
> Ontario, Canada.
>
> http://www.suntech.ca/
>
> You might want to investigate how the do things.
>
> Looks like average temperatures are pretty comparable for SD and Ottawa
> over the course of the year (comparing
>
> http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
>
> to
>
> http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
> ).
>
>
> Darryl
>
> On 30/11/2010 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> >I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> > lurking in the shadows I guess.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> > production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> > South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and
> the
> > right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around
> might
> > be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I
> have
> > read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is
> colder
> > than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> > foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
> > Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should
> be
> > able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
> > but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
> > greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
> > useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
> > thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
> --
> Darryl McMahon
> The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (eBook and trade paper)
> http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/
>
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>
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>
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>
> Search t

Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Kirk McLoren]

If you built a heliostat field with a concentration of say 10 and made the 
greenhouse an insulated building except for the window receiving the light from 
the heliostats you could reduce supplementary heating tremendously. The wall on 
the far side should be reflective. Window is of course at focal point of field 
and should be low iron glass. Even a building such as the passive solar rooms 
as 
in Rodale press book "Passive solar heating" with a tilt out reflector which is 
insulated on the back so when it is closed at night heat loss is more 
comparable 
to a regular house would save tremendous amounts of heat. 

Look into PAR lamps for cloudy days. (Photosynthetically Available Radiation)
 " 





From: Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 6:42:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

This company supplies tomatoes to local stores year-round in Ottawa, 
Ontario, Canada.

http://www.suntech.ca/

You might want to investigate how the do things.

Looks like average temperatures are pretty comparable for SD and Ottawa 
over the course of the year (comparing 
http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
 
to 
http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103).


Darryl

On 30/11/2010 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>    I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> lurking in the shadows I guess.
>
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
> read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
> than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
> Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
> able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
> but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
> greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
> useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
> thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan
>

-- 
Darryl McMahon
The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (eBook and trade paper)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Fritz]

On 10-11-30 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> lurking in the shadows I guess.
>
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
> read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
> than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
> Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
> able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
> but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
> greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
> useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
> thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
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>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
Hi Dan,
energy efficient glass wont work to grow plants.Ordinary houseplants 
dont need a lot of sunligth,not so Tomatos.A single glasspane is all you 
should install on greenhouses!
Fritz

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Ivan Menchero]

Hi Dan,

Here is a thought

Something I never seen in the Western Countries, I have only seen it in 
China.
Many of their green house construction is of mud/straw with a slope roof 
from the top of one end to about 1m to the other side, with a wooden 
"rafter" going the length every 4m. On top of the plastic they have a roll 
(several rolls depending of the width of the structure) of woven straw that 
they roll up in the morning (over the rafter), so the sun goes thru and roll 
down at night to keep the heat in and If I am correct they are oriented to 
the south (I though t it was ingenious, I was like DA, like a blind!). I 
have seen this in places peaking at -15C with most of the winter at around 
0C. If you are interested I might even have some pictures I can dig them up.

Good luck,

Ivan


-Original Message- 
From: Dan Beukelman
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:43 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

Hello All,

   I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
lurking in the shadows I guess.



I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.



Any thoughts?

Dan



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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Frank Bergmans]

Hi Dan,

In the Netherlands greenhouse farming of vegetables and fruits is quite
well developed. In wintertime when temperature drops, heating is
necessary, even if still above zero. Due to agreements with the
government to reduce energy consumption the concept of the Energy
producing green house has been developed. Most of the information
available is in Dutch though. But this site has some information in
English http://www.zonneterp.nl/english/index_uk.html 

You might also search on `energieproducerende kas` (which means energy
producing green house) or look at http://www.kasalsenergiebron.nl/ and
use Google translation. Or try to contact the Product Board for
Horticulture http://www.tuinbouw.nl/project/energieproducerende-kas-0 

Or if you think about contacting companies who can do the job for you
can contact companies like http://www.dalsem.nl/,
http://www.dsgreenhouses.com/,
http://www.wagro-holland.nl/pagina_engels/index_engels.html provide
green house building technology. Or companies like http://www.sosef.nl/
provide turn key projects. 

Good luck.

Frank Bergmans

 

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Dan
Beukelman
Verzonden: woensdag 1 december 2010 5:44
Aan: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Onderwerp: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

Hello All,

   I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
lurking in the shadows I guess.

 

I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and
the right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around
might be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0
fahrenheit).  I have read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in
Canada, which is colder than us, our area is dominated by grain farming
- but I think that local foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown
garden type tomato in the Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very
efficient greenhouse should be able to be covered by the profit from
selling a well growing tomato crop, but the profits go out the window if
you have the heat much.  All of the greenhouses I know of around here
use plastic coverings and that is only useful for extending the growing
season a little bit on both ends.  I am thinking of keeping growth all
year or nearly all year.

 

Any thoughts?

Dan

 

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Darryl McMahon]

This company supplies tomatoes to local stores year-round in Ottawa, 
Ontario, Canada.

http://www.suntech.ca/

You might want to investigate how the do things.

Looks like average temperatures are pretty comparable for SD and Ottawa 
over the course of the year (comparing 
http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103
 
to 
http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/interstate/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/57103).

Darryl

On 30/11/2010 11:43 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
> lurking in the shadows I guess.
>
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
> production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
> read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
> than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
> foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
> Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
> able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
> but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
> greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
> useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
> thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan
>

-- 
Darryl McMahon
The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (eBook and trade paper)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/

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Re: [Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Guag Meister]

Hi Dan and All ;

> I live in
> South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy
> efficient glass and the
> right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes
> year around might
> be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0
> fahrenheit). 

I live in the tropics so I don't have this problem, but if I did, here's what I 
would do.  Your ROI will depend on construction costs, operating costs 
(heating), and profit from selling the vegetables.  You should try to minimize 
construction costs, minimize heating costs, and maximize vegetable output.  

First of all, your plan must include a way to cover the glass glazing at night 
with high R material to reduce heat losses at night or your plants will freeze 
at night.  Second, you can increase your heat gain by adding reflectors that 
direct more sunlight into your greenhouse.  My recommendation would be to try 
to accomplish both in the same structure.  Third, a high thermal mass 
foundation and north facing walls will help to even out the temperature swings.

During the winter, the sun will be low in the sky. The roof should be designed 
that most or all of the roof area is south facing.  In other words, the high 
point of the roof runs along the north facing edge, and the entire roof slopes 
down toward the south facing edge. Your glass glazing should be double walled.  
There are new types which are evacuated, heat losses are extremely low, and 
these are great if you can afford them.

To cover the glazing at night, design a cover which is hinged on the north 
facing edge of the roof and can be jacked up on the south facing edge.  If you 
jack it up far enough (almost vertical), the bottom surface can be made to face 
towards the sun.  The bottom surface of this cover can be made of reflective 
film which can reflect more sun into your greenhouse and could almost double 
your heat gain during the daytime.  This will need to be sturdy because it will 
act as a big sail and in high winds could be a problem if left in the up 
position.

The north facing wall and the foundation should be high thermal mass to even 
out temperature swings. High thermal mass reduces the temperature RISE during 
the day, and reduces the temperature FALL during the night.

Finally, you should to be using a high density planting strategy like square 
foot gardening or hydroponics to maximize your output.  Good idea to do a 
business model in Excel and see how the finances look before starting.  Hope 
you can understand my descriptions.

BR
Peter G.
Thailand
www.gac-seeds.com



  

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[Biofuel] greenhouse farming

[Dan Beukelman]

Hello All,

   I have read your posts for several years, but have not ever posted -
lurking in the shadows I guess.

 

I am wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts/experience with
production agriculture from a greenhouse/hothouse structure.  I live in
South Dakota and have been thinking that with energy efficient glass and the
right setup that growing fresh vegetables likes tomatoes year around might
be possible (I say this with a wind chill today near 0 fahrenheit).  I have
read that many of the US tomato supply is grown in Canada, which is colder
than us, our area is dominated by grain farming - but I think that local
foods stores would go nuts over a locally grown garden type tomato in the
Wintertime.  The construction costs of a very efficient greenhouse should be
able to be covered by the profit from selling a well growing tomato crop,
but the profits go out the window if you have the heat much.  All of the
greenhouses I know of around here use plastic coverings and that is only
useful for extending the growing season a little bit on both ends.  I am
thinking of keeping growth all year or nearly all year.

 

Any thoughts?

Dan

 

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