Re: [Biofuel] Potassium hydroxide - was Re: Caustic Soda supply source?
- Original Message - From: Evergreen Solutions To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Potassium hydroxide - was Re: Caustic Soda supply source? >Still, details would be helpful. Looking towards multiple several-hundred gallon batches we're wanting more info on KOH over NaOH. Any details would be ?>greatly appreciated!! I spoke with rep. about Biodiesel in large-scale 500-gal production. (Sorry, I don't remember his name or his company) His Biodiesel facilties is located in Texas and Staten Island, New York. He found my name on Connecticut Biodiesel Board and wanted to know if I was interested in purchasing BD in bulk. After I mentioned that I make my own BD on a slightly-less capacity (37 gal processor) I said I was not interested, but while I had him on the phone I asked him about his process. He said that they use potassium Hydroxide (KOH) since it was more environmentally safer then sodium and use virgin oil that had date expired from a vegetable supplier. They do not use WVO in their production. I asked that the SVO must be expensive? He said no, that they buy it by the barrel cheep, since it has expired for resale. More info on KOH can be found on the forum "search KOH" at http://www.veggieavenger.com -KS ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Potassium hydroxide - was Re: Caustic Soda supply source?
Not really! Sorry, I'm not sure why I said "wash"? I have found it easier using KOH to mix or dissolve with the methanol then NaOH. I did not notice any difference with the wash stages. -KS - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Potassium hydroxide - was Re: Caustic Soda supply source? > Hello Kevin > > >Soap Supplies on the web have both Potassium (Much easier to wash) and > >Sodium Hydroxide at bulk discounts. You will have to pay a $25.00 Haz Mat > >fee + freight + fuel surcharges, unless you can pickup yourself instead. > > Can you provide some details of how it's easier to wash with KOH? > > Does anybody else think so? > > Thanks! > > Keith > > > > > >-Kevin > >- Original Message - > >From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:19 AM > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Caustic Soda supply source? > > > > > > > Would you post your results? > > > > > > Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > > > > > > Quick question, we're exhausing ourselves looking for a bulk-supplier > > > > of lye/caustic soda/NaOH. I've found some solutions online, but they > > > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Caustic Soda supply source?
Soap Supplies on the web have both Potassium (Much easier to wash) and Sodium Hydroxide at bulk discounts. You will have to pay a $25.00 Haz Mat fee + freight + fuel surcharges, unless you can pickup yourself instead. Search "soap making supplies" (or search something similar) on the web and see what you find. Much cheaper then the Red Devil Lye (R.D. Lye Also sold at "Shop-Rite" supermarkets here on the east coast USA. Laboratory supply companies is usually not a good source for Lye/Methanol at a good price. * Not an expert on your Blue Poly question, but I believe the HDPE will start to deform at 140F. Not sure of what the total failier-rate temp to be. But I would not want to stick-around to see (or clean-up its mess!) -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Caustic Soda supply source? > Would you post your results? > > Evergreen Solutions wrote: > > > Quick question, we're exhausing ourselves looking for a bulk-supplier > > of lye/caustic soda/NaOH. I've found some solutions online, but they > > are extremely expensive. It seems odd to me that 55 gallon drums of > > methanol has been easy, while Lye has been difficult. Actually, Ace > > Hardware has been the only place we've found 100% lye period, in the > > form of Red Devil lye. > > > > I believe someone mentioned something about getting a 40lb bag shipped > > to their door. Can anyone shed more light on this? > > > > Oh, and one more question. Does anyone know what kind of temperatures > > the 55 gallon blue-plastic drums can take before deforming/releasing > > dioxin? 55 gallon metal drums are also proving to be less than fun. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > > >___ > >Biofuel mailing list > >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wash speed
I'm Famous! Yes this way has worked for me. I can only stress to be sure to have your completed wash batch free of water in the end. Mainly due to damage to your injector-pump and engine components (over time). It is the fuel that lubricates the injector pump and poor lubrication could lead to a replacement injector pump. Ex. my pump on my Isuzu NPR is made by Bosch and if for some reason if it fails, I cannot repair myself. I must bring the whole vehicle to an authorized Bosch location for removal as it requires special tools. A bench test of the pump is $500.00 to replace it is $2500.00. This was quoted by Isuzu Motor Corp I'm not sure what it would cost for other diesel makes and models, so I can only relate to what has warned me produce good quality (dry) fuel. My advice would to make several lots of BD fuel and let them sit after the wash process for 2-weeks. Decanter from the top and leave the base! Water is the enemy! -Kevin Shea - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Wash speed > >Hello everyone > > > >I'm asking for solutions in decreasing the time required for the wash stage in > >biodiesel manufacturing. > >In the present I use bubble wash and a quantity of water of 0,3 liters per > >liter of biodiesel. Is this correct? Normaly in three washes the product is > >ready for the next step, but the time required for this slows down > >the process. > >Any sugestions? > > > >Thanks > > See: > > Stir washing > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#stir > > Frequently Asked Question: "Is there a way to speed-up the > water-biodiesel wash? I've read the bubble washing techniques and > understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up > to a week, with several washes." > > Answer: "You can speed up the washing process considerably. It > involves the following... > > Subsequent comment: "Todd, I had a chance to try your 'fast' wash > method today (35 gal white poly drum) with a simple 55 gal drum mixer > and wanted to thank you for the time you just gave back to me! > Success! At least for me, this procedure is much better and faster to > wash biodiesel this way, compared to the bubble-wash method. Just > five minutes of 'appearing homogenous' and allowing the 1 hour > settling, drained-off and replaced the water and repeated for a total > of three wash cycles. The water and biodiesel layers are currently > clear and it's settling for 24 hours. Excellent separation, no > emulsion!" -- Kevin Shea at the Biofuel mailing list. > > [more] > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Got the pump working today! My best educated guess is that the wvo (hopper) intake can't pump oil into the system, unless I also open the ball valve on the reactor bottom tank outtake. So as I'm filling/loading the reactor for the first time from the hopper, I have to compromise some oil from the very vessel I'm trying to fill! A vacuum is forming prior to the pump intake simply due to the fact that there is no vent inline in the 3/4" plumbing when I completely close the reactor tank to fill (vent is located in top reactor only) . I suppose I could include a vent (small air hose) shaft that if back flow to occur could be rerouted to overflow into the hopper tank. I also need to exceed the shaft past the height of the oil level. Thanks for everyone's replies -Kevin Beacon, NY - Original Message - From: "Jules Veres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed! Hi there. you guys might want to try diaphragm air pumps .They work on comp. air all plastic, good for most chemicals and heavy oils.very low maintenece non sparking etc. jules - Original Message - From: ardis streeter<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed! Hi Kevin, My personal advise to you is to get a pump that is truly rated for the work at hand.A gear pump for Graingers is a great pump to use for your process. Yoy will need an electric motor closed design and two pullys,a belt to drive the pump at the correct speed.If the motor is rated at 1800 r.p.m. and the pump is to be driven at 900 r.p.m. you will need one pully 3inches in dia. and the other pully 6inches in dia.with the large pully on the motor and the small pully on the pump, hope this helps!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Michael Fleetwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > Hi > > I have had a capacitor failure on this type of pump > it had only done a > couple of batches - I got a warranty replacement but > wonder if temperature > rise from pumping hot oil rather than cold water was > a factor - it occurred > on a very hot day. > > Mike in Australia. > > At 11:14 PM 26/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, > >I've been using the Harbor Freight 1" 1/2 hp clear > water pump in a closed > >reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches > Approximate 37 gal of WVO + > >7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The > pump is struggling to > >pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water > heater). In fact the pump > >doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at > this point from a lower > >valve outlet! I know the pump is not only > underrated, but possible not > >working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with > this new pump) Note: I > >need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is > 5 feet. > > > >Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the > reactor and also to > >provide better circulating mixing and need to > simply upgrade this pump. > > > >Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: > >http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186&catname=water&ke yword=WPCA > > > >Also: > > > >http://www.mcmaster.com/ > > > >But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some > pumps don't recommend > >liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I > hope to purchase this > >unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. > > > >Thank you, > >Kevin Shea > >Beacon, NY > >___ > >Biofuel mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - > Release Date: 25/04/2005 > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel<http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel> > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Hi Keith, It's 1" downsized to 3/4" > I think so, sounds like it's faulty. A 1" Harbor Freight clear water > pump can easily lift hot oil 2ft. By the way, is it working at 1" or > did you plumb it down to 3/4"? > > We pointed out some time ago that these pumps are not powerful enough > to mix that volume of oil effectively in the given time (one hour), > among other problems with those reactors, and hence the poor results, Yes, I remember following the the posts about increasing the mix times or looking into another pump. However, I already had purchased the pump, so I was going to use it for however long until it dies and then upgrade it. The two batches I used it last October got excellant mix. However it really struggled to get going to curculate that I thought I needed redesign to increase the outlet feed lenght from the reactor to the inlet of the pump (Hence better gravity prime feed). So I brought the processor out of storage and reposition the pump. This added about another 1' of lift. I turned the pump on to pump wvo from my preheat hopper/filter tank to feed into the reactor...It just trickled up the lift tube into the reactor! Every once in a while you would get a good "ploping" going, but it would go back to a "I think I can ... I think I can" mode! It's a nice setup, just wimpy pump (or defective). Thanks, Kevin ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1" 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186&catname=water&keyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Mobil Biodiesel Processor
I've seen a couple of trailers in the Upstate NY area with a trailer setup. Unfortunately, I couldn't talk to the person(s) as we were both driving past each other on the NY thruway at maximum speeds. It's a shame, as the chap had all stainless steel tanks and a really nice pump! The setup was very professional and well thought out. Girl Mark has a basic trailer setup with pictures at veggieavenger web site below that she may trailers to speaking engagements. A functional simplistic setup that can be made to look neater if someone desired. Note the condenser reclaim to the liquid trap! Very nice addition! Some other photos available at that site of other processors setups as well. -Kevin http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=505&sid=5813174dac69cb9342d5659af9112f43 > Dear Mr. Harris: > Please send us plans when you get mobil unit. > Tks, > Francisco ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Stainless Steel Tanks and Reactors Salvage
http://www.jlmercer.com/Reac_Pres.asp I found the above site while looking for tanks. I must openly confess..., the railroad car-size tanks may be too large for my "under-the-porch" biodiesel setup! Thought some folks may be interested? Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, New York USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] "Safety First" (Formally Methanol Liquid Trap)
Points all well taken. With all the resources available, I don't believe I've have read an article that did not have warnings when handling methanol, caustic soda or methoxide or others, regarding the homebrew of Biodiesel. JTF has strictly accented these warnings. In fact, a screw driver purchased from Sears has a warning to wear safety glasses when using! As far as the "average Joe's" if you don't heed to warnings, then watch out! This goes for any products including common household items such as chlorine, bleach, or even installing a fan belt in your vehicle, etc. Fumeless biodiesel processor or closed process have addressed and reduced the dangers of methanol or methoxide. The average Joe will need to educate and use these resources to avoid all VOC safety hazards. Hence this JTF site. Read, absorb, ask, test, evaluate, reevaluate, test, ask, so forth, before diving-in! As far as VOC in the house, I'm not sure what to add regarding local code or California regulations. Other for people to use common sense, wear all required safety equipment and to safely store their bulk chemicals outside city limits. Unfortunately, your right and mishaps will certainly happen! Safety First! -KS - Original Message - From: "Phillip Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery and "Safety First" > John/Kirk, brings up some good points regarding > precautions with methanol. As biodiesel homebrew > penetrates the marketplace many more "average joes" > will get involved (I am an "average joe" too) and > reason for my survey of "Zoning Ordinances in > California Cities" that I posted. I am very curious > how planners in California feel about biofuels, > biodiesels. Regular gasoline is toxic too! My > responses indicate that City Planners will ask > questions related to volatile organic compounds. > > Generally speaking, many homes and businesses (at > least in California) have volatile compounds and > chemicals in their storage areas, garages and kitchens > - and methanol should be handled with care. For > example, the wine industry is a user of caustic soda, > sulfur dioxide, and other such chemical in the making > of large quantities of wine on a commerical scale. And > all "wine cellar rats" undergoe extensive safety > training to handle such chemicals(I worked in big > wineries). > > I think JTF is generally headed in the right direction > by saying the biofuel can be made in a safe and sane > manner. My concern is the "average joe" may not > understand the need for prudence and caution in > handling methanol. > > (Readers must also note that methanol fumes emit exist > when fueling up your car with regular gasoline.) > > In comparision to othter animals, "humans are uniquely > sensitive" to methanol "...and the toxic effects in > these species is characterized by formic acidaemia, > metabolic acidosis, ocular toxicity, nervous system > depression, blindness, coma and death. Nearly all of > the available information on methanol toxicity in > humans relates to the consequences of acute rather > than chronic exposures. A vast majority of poisonings > involving methanol have occurred from drinking > adulterated beverages and from methanol-containing > products." > http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc196.htm > > Conclusion: > "SAFETY FIRST! SAFETY FIRST is a motto I learned when > working for the US Forest Service, an electric > utility, and the petroleum businesss. "SAFETY FIRST" > is something I advocate and preach to my kids at my > home and my workplace (which is now my home > office!)...and I am sure us JTF biofuel readers > advocate that same philosophy. > > Phillip Wolfe > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery
Haven't got much from this topic other then Luc's & J.L.'s I figure that from what I've read, for the condenser, the vacuum should be 22-28 Hg's (BTW, I found inexpensive vacuum and pressure gauges @ gaugestore.com) I also found an image of a still that uses a large glass jar with what I believe is a cap or rubber stopper with two holes that will allow for a dip tube and above liquid level outtake (http://paicorp.com/images/inv1pic1.jpg) . I've located black rubber two-hole stoppers at VWR International. -No choice on stoppers, as all they have is rubber. However other then vapors, I don't expect methanol to come in direct contact with the stopper. So with 22-28Hg's of vacuum, I'm hoping a glass jar will hold up? Thanks, Kevin - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > Are they aluminium? It doesn't react well with methanol. > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Barry Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > > > > Another possible suitable small tank...not glass obviously, but pressure > > rated none the less...is the used referigerant tanks the heat and air > > people use to charge up air conditioners. These are usually discarded or > > made into portable air tanks. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > > > > > >> try to find an old propane tank the 5- 10 gallon size like the ones under > >> your b-b-q grill > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 8:36 PM > >> Subject: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > >> > >> > >> I'm looking for a suitable liquid trap, but having some difficulty in > >> finding "the pressure tank" w/fittings that would be a candidate for the > >> task. I would like to see a glass or clear type liquid trap, so I can > >> view the recovery. However, I'm not sure such a canister exist. I saw > >> picture of Girl Mark's processor and she had a small water heater (5-10 > >> gal ) that was used. > >> > >> Several liquid trap designs on Journey's site had to do with a paint > >> mixer approx. 2.5 gall metal canister, a scuba tank, and a small water > >> heater. None of these are available to me as a "free" status. Has anyone > >> have any suggestions or ideas on another type I can use for a liquid > >> trap? > >> > >> At this stage, I have a condenser constructed (Copper tubing in sealed > >> PVC pipe with pump circulating cold water), a very nice Edwards Vacuum > >> Two-Stage pump. I'm at a stand still (no pun intended), to complete this > >> last recovery necessity. > >> > >> The reactor, pump, preheat WVO tank, filter and wash tanks are completed > >> to process 43.2 gal batch. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> Kevin Shea > >> Beacon, NY > >> ___ > >> Biofuel mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > >> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >> > >> ___ > >> Biofuel mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > >> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >> > >> > > > > > > ___ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery
How would I connect it? I need an intake and outtake lines. The intake has to have a diptube or tube leading to the bottom and the outtake need to be above the liquid line so not to get to my vacuum pump. Let me know? -KS - Original Message - From: "J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > try to find an old propane tank the 5- 10 gallon size like the ones under > your b-b-q grill > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 8:36 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > > > I'm looking for a suitable liquid trap, but having some difficulty in > finding "the pressure tank" w/fittings that would be a candidate for the > task. I would like to see a glass or clear type liquid trap, so I can view > the recovery. However, I'm not sure such a canister exist. I saw picture > of Girl Mark's processor and she had a small water heater (5-10 gal ) that > was used. > > Several liquid trap designs on Journey's site had to do with a paint mixer > approx. 2.5 gall metal canister, a scuba tank, and a small water heater. > None of these are available to me as a "free" status. Has anyone have any > suggestions or ideas on another type I can use for a liquid trap? > > At this stage, I have a condenser constructed (Copper tubing in sealed PVC > pipe with pump circulating cold water), a very nice Edwards Vacuum Two-Stage > pump. I'm at a stand still (no pun intended), to complete this last > recovery necessity. > > The reactor, pump, preheat WVO tank, filter and wash tanks are completed to > process 43.2 gal batch. > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > Beacon, NY > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery
Thanks Luc, I was going to use the same water heater to reheat the glycerol. However, I realize the congeal factor and paid close attention to filtering the WVO as well as possible before adding my methoxide, so not to have too much particle contamination in the byproduct. Ian Vacuum process uses a former LP gas tank as the reactor to boil off the methanol, but Ian has a removable lid in place. (This allows glycerol to be poured in and not pumped) I do have a preheat tank to pour the glycerol in and slightly heat it to allow movement via pump to reactor (sealed tank). I'm not sure how this is going to ultimately function as I have not tested glycerol in the preheat tank, but only WVO. My goal is to have a multi-purpose setup, and not have to create a separate sealed-tank reactor for the condenser operation. I estimate about 7.2 gal of Glycerol/byproduct per batch X's 2 = 14.4 gallons to process and recover from my weekend production. Has anyone used the water heater for this task? is it too problematic with the "dense" glycerol? I'll plan on using the vacuum setup illustrated at http://home.swbell.net/scrof/procdraw.jpg -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > G'day Kevin; > > I suppose you are looking for a closed,sealed container in which to boil the > methanol. I am presently in the process of building one exactly the same as > you, only I am using a pressure cooker and hot plate along with the > PVC/copper tubing thing. > To capture the condensed methanol at the other end you need another > container that will allow a fumeless (as much as possible) capture. > This can be accomplished by using a carboy with the vent slightly ajar to > allow pressure to escape IMO and have the copper tube attach to the main > drain part of the carboy. You could also vent the pressure realease to the > outdoors via an open window if that is a concern,again IMO. > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:36 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery > > > I'm looking for a suitable liquid trap, but having some difficulty in > finding "the pressure tank" w/fittings that would be a candidate for the > task. I would like to see a glass or clear type liquid trap, so I can view > the recovery. However, I'm not sure such a canister exist. I saw picture > of Girl Mark's processor and she had a small water heater (5-10 gal ) that > was used. > > Several liquid trap designs on Journey's site had to do with a paint mixer > approx. 2.5 gall metal canister, a scuba tank, and a small water heater. > None of these are available to me as a "free" status. Has anyone have any > suggestions or ideas on another type I can use for a liquid trap? > > At this stage, I have a condenser constructed (Copper tubing in sealed PVC > pipe with pump circulating cold water), a very nice Edwards Vacuum Two-Stage > pump. I'm at a stand still (no pun intended), to complete this last > recovery necessity. > > The reactor, pump, preheat WVO tank, filter and wash tanks are completed to > process 43.2 gal batch. > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > Beacon, NY > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Liquid Trap for Methanol Recovery
I'm looking for a suitable liquid trap, but having some difficulty in finding "the pressure tank" w/fittings that would be a candidate for the task. I would like to see a glass or clear type liquid trap, so I can view the recovery. However, I'm not sure such a canister exist. I saw picture of Girl Mark's processor and she had a small water heater (5-10 gal ) that was used. Several liquid trap designs on Journey's site had to do with a paint mixer approx. 2.5 gall metal canister, a scuba tank, and a small water heater. None of these are available to me as a "free" status. Has anyone have any suggestions or ideas on another type I can use for a liquid trap? At this stage, I have a condenser constructed (Copper tubing in sealed PVC pipe with pump circulating cold water), a very nice Edwards Vacuum Two-Stage pump. I'm at a stand still (no pun intended), to complete this last recovery necessity. The reactor, pump, preheat WVO tank, filter and wash tanks are completed to process 43.2 gal batch. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO toyourPre-heat tank or reactor.
Whatever works is right! Finally, a solution I did not have to spent $$$ and was able to use "spare parts" lying around the house! -KS - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO toyourPre-heat tank or reactor. > G'day Kevin; > > I did it a bit differently but the same principle. I use only 22 liter pails > for collection and storage of WVO. I came across a 20 liter paint pail which > has the same body dimensions as the 22 liter so I cut off the bottom leaving > about 1/2 of the pail intact, strapped the screening mesh over the top of > the now half pint pail and secured it around the edges with grapple bar, > allowing the mesh to droop into the center of the pail. This half pail is > then placed inside the rim of the 22 liter pail and just sits there pretty > as you please and I filter my heated WVO that way. Whatever works eh ? > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:25 AM > Subject: [Biofuel] Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO to > yourPre-heat tank or reactor. > > > Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO to your Pre-heat tank or > reactor. > > I found a solution to filter the WVO before adding it to my Processor. > > *** > > Take two (or three) 5 Gallon round drywall buckets and cut the bottoms from > both. ( I used a jig saw with no problem) If the buckets have sealed lids, > cut the lids out as well. > > Bucket A: Wrap a 28"x 28" or so, (fiberglass) mesh window screen around the > bottom and side leaving no gaps. Pay attention to conforming the screening > to the bottom and don't worry too much about the bucket sides as the > screening will crease. > > Install Bucket A into Bucket B. This will hold the filter (screen) in > place. > > Slide a 2"x4", or pipe through the handle to support the filter bucket over > your preheat tank and pump or pour your WVO. > > I imagine you can add a third bucket to the design with a smaller or larger > micron filtration, but the window mesh was sufficient. > > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO to your Pre-heat tank or reactor.
Cheepo 5 gallon Filter Assembly to filter WVO to your Pre-heat tank or reactor. I found a solution to filter the WVO before adding it to my Processor. *** Take two (or three) 5 Gallon round drywall buckets and cut the bottoms from both. ( I used a jig saw with no problem) If the buckets have sealed lids, cut the lids out as well. Bucket A: Wrap a 28"x 28" or so, (fiberglass) mesh window screen around the bottom and side leaving no gaps. Pay attention to conforming the screening to the bottom and don't worry too much about the bucket sides as the screening will crease. Install Bucket A into Bucket B. This will hold the filter (screen) in place. Slide a 2"x4", or pipe through the handle to support the filter bucket over your preheat tank and pump or pour your WVO. I imagine you can add a third bucket to the design with a smaller or larger micron filtration, but the window mesh was sufficient. Thank you, Kevin Shea ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] vacuum dehydration & methanol recovery
Hi Leif, I'm also looking into creating a methanol recovery unit / water evaporator with the aid of a vacuum pump and have the same concerns. In fact, I was going to post the same questions you have! Mainly, what vacuum pump to use along with the condenser that will not explode from the recovered methanol. This is my next addition to my processor and would echo your concerns with any advice on this subject. HELP!! -Kevin > >> Wondering if you can help me with a couple of vacuum pump questions. > >> I am building a reactor out of a 150 gallon vessel and want to use > >> vacuum to dry incoming waste oil, dry washed biodiesel, and recover > >> methanol from glycerin and biodiesel. I am trying to figure out what > >> vacuum pump I need (at least the ball park specifications) and find > >> an affordable source. > > > > > >> On safety: Do you think I need to be concerned about getting an > >> explosion proof or totally enclosed fan cooled vacuum pump? Even > >> though the system will have to be closed and I'll have a liquid trap? > >> > >> Technical: Any idea what the free air CFM @ 25" Hg would have to be > >> to evacuate 20 gallons of methanol from a 150 gallon tank in a > >> reasonable amount of time (1 to 2 hours)? > >> > >> ~leif ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Safety of Dispensing from 55 Gal. Drumstocarboy safely
Thanks Jonathan, Not sure the route I'm going to take on the dispensing from a 55 gal drum. I have got many replies and this is the most dangerous part. Like you said, "It only takes a spark!" I've been paying $29.00 in Connecticut for a 5 gal pail of Power-Mist Methanol in order to get of the ground with short BD production. After about 90 gal of BD production, I decided to hold-off on production to build a larger processor with Methanol recovery and design an efficient process (The other processor made just 30 liters without methanol recovery) . I believe I was quoted $179.00 back in May for a 55 gal drum of methanol -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Jonathan Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:43 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Methanol Safety of Dispensing from 55 Gal. Drumstocarboy safely > Kevin- > We use this set up to empty 55 gal Drums... > Most Drums have a large fill hole and a small vent hole. > Most hardware stores carry brass (spark proof) fittings that will attach > to these holes. I try to avoid the pvc fittings, they can snap off when > tipping the drum over if they are bumped. The large one we use came with a > valve already attached. The small fitting has a vacuum breaker inside. > With the drum upright, install both fittings. > Please, always use spark proof tools. A spark around methanol is verry > dangerous. I once saw a fire started when a guy dropped his wrench to the > floor into another pile of tools. All it took was one spark. > Use a lot of teflon tape on the threads, the methanol is so thin that it > will leak around the rough threads. Ensure the valve is closed as sometimes > people will "play" with the valves in the store. > Lay the drum on its side with the vent hole uppermost. > When you open the valve on the large attachment, the vacuum breaker will > open to allow flow. > Grounding... > I can't think of the manufacturer...someone else on the list may know. > It looks like a very small c-clamp, with the exception that the threaded > part has a jagged, sharp set of teeth to cut through paint, gunk, and dirt > build up on the drum. It attaches to the bottom rim. > The wire is welded to the clamp at one end and to the grounding rod on the > other. > They are very cheap (less than a dollar) and are guaranteed to work. As you > know, a good ground is very important because of static build up when > flowing a volatile fluid into or out of a vapor space like a drum. > Sorry if this was too simplistic. I never know how much detail is too much > detail... > > By the way, How much does a 55 gallon drum of pure methanol cost in your > area? > Also, what is your area? > > ps(to the list) > What does everyone else pay for their chemicals? Please include size of > product > and area of country(us) . > > Jonathan > > > >From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol Safety of Dispensing from 55 Gal. Drums > >tocarboy safely > >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 01:05:34 -0500 > > > >After 11 months of research of biodiesel and pondering methanol safety, I > >have not come across any recent scenarios of dispensing methanol from a 55 > >gal metal drum to a BD methoxide processor (carboy) with only one > >exception. > >(On Journey to Forever's site) > >One chap using a 55 gal poly drum of methanol with a special bung cap > >fitted with a tire valve plug /shaft. > > > >The listed method is from memory, but I believe it is ...Applying > >compressed air to the tire plug will create pressure within the drum to > >exhaust pressured output (methanol) or pump methanol to the methoxide > >container etc. > > > >To purchase a 55 gal. drum or drums of methanol is a vast saving compared > >to buying meth. in 5 gal pails here on the northeast coast of the US. > >Methanol is your most expensive raw material when it comes to biodiesel > >production. My first question is 1.) How to dispense the Methanol from a > >55 gal drum to my carboy safely using approved drum equipment? Model > >number of hand pumps helps to include with reply!! etc.? > > > >How do you ground the drum? > >I can make a ground 55 gal drum clamp w/wire and ground it to the earth. > >-Solved > > > >Method of delivery? > >Not sure how the chap purchased the Methanol in a poly drum, or maybe he > >transferred it, since methanol should most likely be sold in a metal > >drums?. > > > >2.)Question is: Can't find a rated 55 gal. drum pump (hand) to us
[Biofuel] Methanol Safety of Dispensing from 55 Gal. Drums to carboy safely
After 11 months of research of biodiesel and pondering methanol safety, I have not come across any recent scenarios of dispensing methanol from a 55 gal metal drum to a BD methoxide processor (carboy) with only one exception. (On Journey to Forever's site) One chap using a 55 gal poly drum of methanol with a special bung cap fitted with a tire valve plug /shaft. The listed method is from memory, but I believe it is ...Applying compressed air to the tire plug will create pressure within the drum to exhaust pressured output (methanol) or pump methanol to the methoxide container etc. To purchase a 55 gal. drum or drums of methanol is a vast saving compared to buying meth. in 5 gal pails here on the northeast coast of the US. Methanol is your most expensive raw material when it comes to biodiesel production. My first question is 1.) How to dispense the Methanol from a 55 gal drum to my carboy safely using approved drum equipment? Model number of hand pumps helps to include with reply!! etc.? How do you ground the drum? I can make a ground 55 gal drum clamp w/wire and ground it to the earth. -Solved Method of delivery? Not sure how the chap purchased the Methanol in a poly drum, or maybe he transferred it, since methanol should most likely be sold in a metal drums?. 2.)Question is: Can't find a rated 55 gal. drum pump (hand) to use for methanol that is explosive proof and is rated for methanol. Any help Thank you, Kevin Shea ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Fuel Economy Compare by US Department of Energy
I found the following link useful for research of automotive fuel economy prepared by the US Department of Energy. http://www.fueleconomy.gov www.fueleconomy.gov Thank you, Kevin Shea ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] re:galvanized tanks
Thanks Luc. I could go with HDPE, but hope to use the old tanks if possible... My goal is to prevent methanol evaporation and still have a site tube to successfully divert the "good" stuff to another inline tank for overall efficiently of production using 3/4" plumbing to all three tanks (1. Settling tank, 2. Glycerin/byproduct tank, 3. Wash tank) -Divert the "good stuff" to a wash tank -Divert the byproduct to methanol tank for immediate recovery BTW, nice job on the processor! Like the electrical panel! -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re:galvanized tanks > They look like this: > 1-http://www.paramountcan.com/sl7.html > > 2-http://www.generalcontainer.com/displayCategory.asp?cat=9&subcat=32 > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Greg Harbican" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re:galvanized tanks > > > > Get a HPDE livestock watering tank, they can be had pre-plumbed for 2 inch > > ( or close to it ) line, in capacities of up to 500 gal. > > > > Greg H. > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settlingtankw/sitetube
Thanks Keith, I posted pics to the following link if you want to take a look of the galvanized tanks. http://ecmgroup.tripod.com/tank1.jpg http://ecmgroup.tripod.com/tank2.jpg I may scrap it all together if I the coating cannot be done. Perhaps I'll call Bruce and explain if it is possible. I think it all depends on the resin setup time etc. If not, I'll keep the tanks as a solar water preheat tank that will feed into a household water heater to save energy to heat the house hot water. However, this has been a learning experience that will at least benefit my steel WVO preheat tank as I plan on coating the inside with the resin, so I don't have to contend with the rust. (Folks with stainless steel 55 gal drums -stop bragging!) As far as sealed metal tanks go, what will be the safe bet for compatibility with the components used in single-stage or two-stage process? Stainless Steel? -Kevin > You do have a good point on how on earth to get it in the tank. I > didn't realise access was such a problem. You could do it the way you > suggest if you get the mix right, do tests first as suggested to make > certain (a) it doesn't start hardening before you're done, and (b) > that it doesn't not harden at all! Obviously (b) is worse than (a). > > Best wishes > > Keith > > >I have lots of information regarding this subject - thanks to everyone's > >input > > > >I even have a reply from Bruce Curry from AOC corporation, but have not yet > >replied, since I am on my way out the door and have to do some homework to > >get him the answers he requested. I've posted it below > > > >The tanks were made for hydro at ambient temperature (water tanks) that > >used to hold alkily cleaning chemical for an auto auction and is no longer > >used. I picked them up for my bioprocessor to hopefully aid in containment > >of methanol evaporation as well as ease of production. (The reator is the > >Girl Mark fumeless) These three 82 gal tanks are taller then me with only > >four 1" openings. Regarding the correct components from what Keith and what > >I've read of what coating to (and run test), still has to be determined. > > > >I'm at odds on how I would coat the inside with just 1" opening (Openings: > >1" open at top, two 1" opening midway (site tube) and one 1" at side bottom) > >This may not be possible. > > > >My thory of coating would be to pour the solution at the top and rotate the > >tank for full coverage. When full coating is applied, tip the tank (upside > >down and let the excess drain from the opening. let dry for undetermined > >amount of time and possible repeat Time temp. or the density of the > >solution questions still have to be answered and this will take some time. > > > > > >-Kevin ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/sitetube
I have lots of information regarding this subject - thanks to everyone's input I even have a reply from Bruce Curry from AOC corporation, but have not yet replied, since I am on my way out the door and have to do some homework to get him the answers he requested. I've posted it below The tanks were made for hydro at ambient temperature (water tanks) that used to hold alkily cleaning chemical for an auto auction and is no longer used. I picked them up for my bioprocessor to hopefully aid in containment of methanol evaporation as well as ease of production. (The reator is the Girl Mark fumeless) These three 82 gal tanks are taller then me with only four 1" openings. Regarding the correct components from what Keith and what I've read of what coating to (and run test), still has to be determined. I'm at odds on how I would coat the inside with just 1" opening (Openings: 1" open at top, two 1" opening midway (site tube) and one 1" at side bottom) This may not be possible. My thory of coating would be to pour the solution at the top and rotate the tank for full coverage. When full coating is applied, tip the tank (upside down and let the excess drain from the opening. let dry for undetermined amount of time and possible repeat Time temp. or the density of the solution questions still have to be answered and this will take some time. -Kevin FROM BRUCE: Will the refurbished tanks need to contain the sodium hydroxide and the potassium hydroxide and then later be used for biodiesel? If so, what is the concentration of the sodium hydroxide and the potassium hydroxide? What is the temperature? Are there organincs present with the sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide? Vipel F701 or F764 will handle the biodiesel but they will not be able to handle the sodium hydroxide or the potassium hydroxide. Premium corrosion resistant resins will be needed to contain sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide such as Vipel F010 but I need to know concentrations and temperatures before this can be confirmed. Unless you have had fiberglass lay up experience, it is likely that you will need to have someone come in to laminate for you. (Unless the NaOH and KOH concentrations are quite low and the temperature is ambient) These chemicals are quite aggressive to FRP and the laminate needs to made with minimal air bubbles and designed with an ASTM C 581 corrosion barrier. What is the roll of the zinc? Are you dissolving it?What is the concentration of the zinc? Is the zinc just metallic zinc? Bruce Curry AOC Corrosion Product Leader Phone 901-854-2871 - Original Message - From: "Jonathan Schearer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/sitetube > > > Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jonathan > > >Kevin, I'm not sure if this relates to what you are doing, but I > >used the POR-15 that was recommended in the JTF site with great > >satisfaction. I coated the inside of 2-55 gallon tanks with half a > >pint. I used the clear paint and it formed a "shell-like" glaze > >that is solid like a rock. I made sure I read all the precautions > >on this stuff, use a respirator. High organics. I have not had > >anything in the tanks as of yet though. Hopefully I can get another > >stage completed over Thanksgiving. Just a suggestion. Jonathan > >Schearer. > > We'd used POR-15 previously, with great results, but not with > biodiesel. So before I uploaded the POR-15 link to our site I wrote > to them and asked about resistance to all things biodiesel, and they > assured me it was resistant. We haven't used it inside a processor, > but we have used it for a few other things that have had a lot of > contact with biodiesel, but washed biodiesel, thus not with the > processing chemicals. We had one report from someone who used it > inside a processor and said it started to peel off after awhile, > which he attributed to heat expansion and contraction, though it > didn't peel off the rusty bits. I wasn't sure if he'd prepared the > surface properly, which is really important. So I'm very interested > to hear how you get along with it. Please let us know. > > Regards > > Keith > > > I will share my findings. I am very optimistic and hope it works out well. The only frustrating thing on my part is how long it has been taking me to assemble the processor. Just to prepare the surface of the tanks for application took me 3 weeks. I had to do it in 3 stages...Clean surface with their cleaner, let dry, apply the metal etch, let dry, apply POR-15 let dry. When I received the package in the mail, I opened it and one of the first pieces of literatur
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/site tube
Thanks Keith, Is the polyester resin coating something of a 'do-it-yourself' project? There is four 1" openings on each tank, so I should be able to pour the resin (or spray) and rotate each tank for full coverage. However, I inquired further with a resin company on the internet and waiting to see what advice they have for me. -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tankw/site tube > Hello Kevin > > >Currently I process BD as single-stage, but hope to grow into the acid > > two-stage down-the-line. My reactor is the "Girl Mark" fumeless model.. > >Here is my question(s)... > > > > Wondering if I can use three sealed 82 gal sealed galvenized tanks in my > > biodiesel processor is okay? > > Both NaOH and KOH react with zinc. You could try giving the tanks an > inner coating of polyester resin (glass fibre), or two coatings > maybe. It resists the biodiesel process well, including the acid-base > process. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > >I plan to use this as a fumeless settling > > tank, a second 82 gal tank as a biodiesel wash tank and a third to store > >the > > glycerin & byproduct to later pump back to the reactor for methanol > > recovery. (all tanks have pressure release valves for safety) These > >three tanks have a > > maximum pressure of 125 PSI, so they are strong. > > > > However, I've read in "Girl Marks" fumeless processor, she frowns on the > > 3/4" galvanized plumbing (but does not explain why), but since black pipe > >is not available for the manifold > > etc,., we have no choice in some of the components to go with galvanized.. > > > > Can I use these galvanized tank in my process...or what is the deal with > >galvanized > > with biodiesel production if any problems? > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thank you, > > Kevin Shea > > Beacon, New York USA > > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Fw: Biodiesel output to galvanized settling tank w/site tube
Currently I process BD as single-stage, but hope to grow into the acid two-stage down-the-line. My reactor is the "Girl Mark" fumeless model.. Here is my question(s)... Wondering if I can use three sealed 82 gal sealed galvenized tanks in my biodiesel processor is okay? I plan to use this as a fumeless settling tank, a second 82 gal tank as a biodiesel wash tank and a third to store the glycerin & byproduct to later pump back to the reactor for methanol recovery. (all tanks have pressure release valves for safety) These three tanks have a maximum pressure of 125 PSI, so they are strong. However, I've read in "Girl Marks" fumeless processor, she frowns on the 3/4" galvanized plumbing (but does not explain why), but since black pipe is not available for the manifold etc,., we have no choice in some of the components to go with galvanized.. Can I use these galvanized tank in my process...or what is the deal with galvanized with biodiesel production if any problems? Any ideas? Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, New York USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Circulation with pump washing
Yes! - Original Message - From: "Andres Yver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 9:38 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Circulation with pump washing > On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 06:41 PM, biofuel@yahoogroups.com > wrote: > > >> 1) Throw out your mist washer. > >> 2) Box up your bubble washer. > >> 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete > > reaction by > >> testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > >> 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to > > the point of > >> appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > >> 5) Let settle 1 hour. > >> 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two > > more > >> cycles. > >> 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > >> 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was > > left on top > >> after each syphoning in a collection tank. > >> 9) Let settle 24 hours. > >> 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to > > recover the > >> soaps. > >> 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to > > your first > >> wash of your next batch. > > Hi, > > Should step 6 read 'repeat steps 4, 5, & 6 two more cycles' ? > > thanks, > > andres yver > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Circulation with pump washing.
Hi bioveging, Todd spoke words of wisdom to me and helped me save about four days, so I went back and found the post. I had spent time and $$$ on the bubble wash method, but thought it to take too long for my liking. Since then, I drain my separation (after reaction ) to a secondary 55 gal white poly drum and where it settles for 18-24hrs. My secondary drum has two side bulkhead valves installed about 6"-10" apart from another , with 1/2 ballvalves. I'll simply drain the Glycerin-level just below the top ballvalve, using the lower valve. Then drain the BD the top layer into another secondary wash drum that has the same bulkhead setup. Yeah, I could have used the standpipe design, but decided on see-through poly. After following Todd's rules, I'll add 5-10 gal of water gently (I put the garden hose just below the BD, so not to create emulsion) and mix with the same mixer I used in my reactor tank for 3-5 min., wait 30min - 1 hour for settling and repeat twice, before draining the murky water and starting the process over until satisfied. So my original post had to do with saving time! However, I was introduced to a better way to wash BD without any pumps or bubble stones etc. Hope it helps..No emulsion! *** Kevin, Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: . 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process time down to 24 hours. Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash "fuel" from incomplete reactions. That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that their reactions are complete. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hello, > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > Anyone? > > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > > - Original Message - From: "bioveging" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: [biofuel] Circulation with pump washing. > OK, I tried the drill pump via the standpipe and returned it via the > water drain and that didn't give satisfactory results. I then tried > to hook up a Pony Pump and do the same thing with essentially the > same unresults, so I then had the brilliant idea of hooking up the > Pony Pump to the water drain and have it splash into the BD from the > top and that gave about the same results as the former two methods, > unsatisfactory. > Now, before I waste more of my time there has to be someone that > does this successfully and that has been having quite a yarn at my >
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
> Just what are you doing with that 6% -8% loss? Would you flush 6-8% of > petroleum diesel "down the drain" or consider it equally > "insignificant?".That's 6-8 gallons for every one hundred, perhaps more when > using high FFA oils. That's 300-400 miles of travel in a VW Golf or Jetta > every hundred gallons produced. It also equates to 6-8% less fossil diesel > being consumed. Hey Todd, I see the loss with 6%-8% worth saving or any loss for that fact. I understand what you are saying about economically feasible, and so forth,...I have no difference and agree 100% with every point you made. My situation of home brewing is that of a mission to carefully produce good quality BD in the least amount of time due to my lack of space to keep a working processor on standby, or ready for production. Simply put, (I still rent) I need to get this ugly equipment out of here, (make it disappear!) once I have multi-batches brewed in my time period and outputted to the separation tank! I hope to have me green processor someday. However, I have to sacrifice the 6%-8% of additional resources due to the time factor/landlord. Using the two-stage method (in my case), I believe would restrict my output to just 50 liters in the same time-period. This would result in a 75% production loss. I drive 80 minutes to pick up the reactor and supporting equipment and fully assemble the processor. I produce 50 liters per batch for a total of 200 liters and is a full-time procedure for me at this stage of the game. I do this 1x per month. After appox.8 hours, I have 200 liters in a separation drum, that will be drained to a wash tank 24hrs.later. I use BD im my Isuzu box truck and burn my 200 liters in 1.5 days! I'm currently working to improve to output to 100 liters per batch. > As for time being a governing factor... If you set your system up right, > there's precious little more time involved than what it takes to switch on > pumps and motors along with a little prudent oversight. > Good to know, this is what I needed to know from my "your thoughts" post. Thanks, -Kevin > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:38 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hi Todd, > > I just reread the "Fool proof Method" on Journey's website to get > > reacquainted with the acid/base process. > > > > It appears to be a time hungry method! For example: "...After adding the > > acid and methanol in Stage One, you mix for two hours (I'm being brief on > > the process to emphasize the time line) > > > > After mixing: let the batch sit for 8 hours or overnight. ( I would let > sit > > overnight) > > 5 more minutes of mixing when adding the sodiumhydroxide...to complete > stage > > one > > > > Staged two has combined of 7 hours of settling time, not including > reheating > > and draining time, before moving onto the wash stage > > > > Todd, > > I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see > > the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with > > time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > -Kevin > > > > > > > > is acid base much better? > > > > > > Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% > soaps. > > > Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly > > > abused.. > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hi Todd, I just reread the "Fool proof Method" on Journey's website to get reacquainted with the acid/base process. It appears to be a time hungry method! For example: "...After adding the acid and methanol in Stage One, you mix for two hours (I'm being brief on the process to emphasize the time line) After mixing: let the batch sit for 8 hours or overnight. ( I would let sit overnight) 5 more minutes of mixing when adding the sodiumhydroxide...to complete stage one Staged two has combined of 7 hours of settling time, not including reheating and draining time, before moving onto the wash stage Todd, I guess for the 6%-8% loss in the single-stage process, I'm not sure I see the value in the Two Stage acid process as your paying for the loss with time, plus additional energy to reheat and mix. Your thoughts? -Kevin > > is acid base much better? > > Even with fairly clean and unabused oil, you can still produce 6-8% soaps. > Acid/base prevents that 6-8% loss, and then some if the oil is highly > abused.. > > Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
As far as the volume of BD, it's pretty close (Did not measure) to what I started before adding the wash water. After 3 wash cycles, the finished product is much lighter in color, clear. Also, my experience with emulsion has to do with too much agitation of me jetting water into the batch in my earlier trials of biodiesel production mistakes that yielded three layers (BD, Emulsion, Water). This emulsion killed my BD output! So I'm pretty happy to have just two layers after using a mixer vs. bubble in the wash process > If you want to be 100% on the green side with such a fast-paced wash > regimen, you'll want to install a > > If you really want to improve your energy recovery, you can pump the > majority of the water Sorry, I produce the BD at my apartment and have to clean the processors, drums, hoses, etc. up rather quickly before the landlord has a cow! I'm interested in condensing the byproduct to capture the methanol, but could not find the right parts and will proibly find a used water heater to develope one. However, when a time comes for me to own my 1st house, I will be interested in creating the most efficiant/green process to produce BD! > > And if you really want to get efficient, producing more fuel and less soaps > and using fewer lower volumes of chemicals, the next jump would be going > into acid/base once you've got straight base processing down pat. > Todd, is acid base much better? Is that the process you use? I get perfectly good WVO from a restaurant (Canola), and I thought acid base is used for poor WVO? Thanks, Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Todd, I had a chance to try your "fast " wash method today (35 gal white poly drum) with a simple 55 gal drum mixer and wanted to thank you for the time you just gave back to me! Success! At least for me, this procedure is much better & faster to wash Biodiesel this way, compared to the bubble-wash method. Just 5 minutes of "appearing homogenous": and allowing the 1 hour settling,...removed a heavy layer of settled soap murky water (looked like melted marshmallows). Drained-off & replaced the water and repeated for a total of 3 wash cycles. The murkiness of the water & biodiesel layers are currently clear and is settling for 24 hours. Excellent separation, no emulsion! -Kevin Shea - Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Kevin, > > Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: > . > 1) Throw out your mist washer. > 2) Box up your bubble washer. > 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by > testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. > 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of > appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. > 5) Let settle 1 hour. > 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 & 7 two more > cycles. > 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. > 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1"-2" of fuel that was left on top > after each syphoning in a collection tank. > 9) Let settle 24 hours. > 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the > soaps. > 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first > wash of your next batch. > > Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor > tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process > time down to 24 hours. > > Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking > that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash > "fuel" from incomplete reactions. > > That's the primary reason why they were "invented" and have achieved such > wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that > their reactions are complete. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > > > > Hello, > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling > of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand > it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with > several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know > nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, > takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average > homebrewer. > > > > Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" > past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? > > > > Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to > understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation > illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage > process or something similar? > > > > I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm > at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > Thank you, > > Kevin Shea Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fair price for methanol
Upstate NY? Where? I live in Dutchess Cty, NY and I'm looking for a Methanol supplier. Currently paying $28.00 for 5 gal. Please let me know where your supplier is located? Thanks, Kevin > $40 for the quantity mentioned is a fair price. In upstate NY we expect to pay $2.50-$2.75/ gal. in small quantities and $1.90 - $2.25/ gal for a drum (55gals) depending on the time of year it is purchased. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Benz question...sorry,not biofuel related
Hi Steve, I own an Isuzu NPR diesel truck and I believe the same thing happened to me. I would turn the key and pull the key out and the engine would run for approx. 30 seconds until it ran out of fuel in the lines...it was real tough trying to start it up again as the fuel took a while to prime! The problem in my situation was a engine shut-off cable located in the engine compartment and was not electrical, but mechanical. The pulley that "stalls" the engine needed lubrication and was fixed quickly. Check your cable. Hope that helps. -Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cost of Methanol in US
hi Gary, I pay $28.00 per 5 gal can and $179.00 per 50 gal (not 55 gal) drum. I live in NY, but purchase my Methanol in Connecticut at a racing fuel place. -Kevin > I am jst wondering how much methanol cost in the US. My local > supplier in NW Montana quoted me $196 for 55 gal. This works out to > about a $1.40 / gal of finished product not including reclaiming > methanol. > > Thank you Gary > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Thanks for the info on the condenser plans to everyone who shared in the discussion. I did not realize that some info in Journey's website had specifics in the "Simple 5 gallon Processor". I think I passed this info over when I was on my reactor quest and the condenser paragraph was meaningless to me at the time. -Thanks Keith So I have the basics and would hopefully like to still see some plans posted in the future. Converting a liquid-to-a-gas, back to a liquid (Methanol), sounds easy enough. Let's discuss parts: Coaxial coil piping system: I haven't checked where to purchase coaxial pipe yet, (Donnie mentioned a beer homebrewing) but it appears that this can cool the gas efficiently using a cheap re-circulation water pump from let's say, a sealed bucket or as someone said a cooler of icewater? Of course it takes energy to make ice in the first place, but what else could cool the lines? Heater: Most likely I'll use a 1500w-1650w electric water heater threaded into the bottom of a 15 gallon metal drum. Girl Mark passed this heater idea to me when I was inquiring about a pre-heat WVO tank. The pre-heat tank can now serve a duel purpose. I'm not sure how I'm going to seal the lid. Being the drum is a standard size, I may be able to purchase a metal lid and a ring collar to seal it. For the methanol gas vapors, I imagine I would install a valve in the lid to the coaxial pipe, but could use some ideas? I'm not sure if I can mount a funnel-style lid as sealing this to a 15 gallon metal drum could be difficult Idea's??? -Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What went wrong?
> liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top > of it, then shook. Agitated too vigorously too early in the wash stage is probably the problem as this caused emusions. No need to waste your test batch...let it stand for a month in a dark place and you should see it (almost completely) come back. I did the same thing to my earlier test batches by jetting the water into my 5 gal batches with the garden hose and creating foamy stuff..Opps! . -Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Thanks M. I have not a clue to construct a condensor unit. I do see pictures on biodiesel processors that have inline units, but it doesn't go into detail on parts needed and recommeded tips, such as the "Girl-Mark Fumeless" plans. This is really important and a great help in my biodiesel process. I've been storing glycerin in 5 gal carboys until such info can be found. I prefer to "know what I'm doing" when heating biodielsel byproduct for Methanol recovery. Anyone? - Original Message - From: "î Riain, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 8:18 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans > Kevin , > > I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for the same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on condensers . > > I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol vapours through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references to air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as more efficient. > The water in the bath will need to be cooled. i guess if you had a large holding tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . Apologies - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said. > > The guy with the Touchless Processor - http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html > > uses a coaxial pipe system - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates through the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective. > > Please let me know if you find anything useful. > > m > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38 > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans > > > Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) > > Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? > > Pictures appreciated > > > Thank you, > Kevin Shea > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ** > Th contents of this e-mail (including attachments)are private and confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this e-mail or any attachments to anyone else or make any use of its contents; you should not read any part of this e-mail or any attachments. Unauthorised disclosure or communication or other use of the contents of this e-mail or any part thereof may be prohibited by law and may constitute a criminal offence. > > If you receive this e-mail by mistake please notify the system manager @ +353-1-647-2417. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of known computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ** > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? Pictures appreciated Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: NY/CT Free 55 gallon Poly Drums. White/Black/Semi-Clear.
-Drums in Beacon NY, in Dutchess County - Original Message - From: Kevin Shea To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:37 AM Subject: NY/CT Free 55 gallon Poly Drums. White/Black/Semi-Clear. PS: If anyone needs Poly Drums (55 Gal ) who can pick them up, let me know. I discard used poly drums (2 bung closed seal) each week and can hold some if anyone needs them. I work in the car wash industry and used drums have some soap, or other cleaners residuals ( 1-2 gal).as I do not have the facility to re-certify drums for resale. I post this offer to help fellow members. Please email if you are interested [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Kevin Shea Auto Magic of Connecticut 203.526.2212 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] NY/CT Free 55 gallon Poly Drums. White/Black/Semi-Clear.
PS: If anyone needs Poly Drums (55 Gal ) who can pick them up, let me know. I discard used poly drums (2 bung closed seal) each week and can hold some if anyone needs them. I work in the car wash industry and used drums have some soap, or other cleaners residuals ( 1-2 gal).as I do not have the facility to re-certify drums for resale. I post this offer to help fellow members. Please email if you are interested [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Kevin Shea Auto Magic of Connecticut 203.526.2212 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20
Hi Lyle, I consume 72 gal of diesel fuel per week and I will need additional resources to produce 100% BD at this point. I have just one restaurant sponsor of grease during this startup phase and I can be regarded as a new comer of biofuels! (I did not want to get a bunch of sponsors of WVO just yet, until I can regulate a production schedule) So far, so good, as I have consumed 16 gal of homemade BD to date. I have my processors plans to produce 20 liter batches currently, and up that to 80 liters, once my new system can prove it can heat 130F recommended for reaction processing. > Soon you will find yourself seeing how long you can stay on B100. Soon > you will be obsessed. Don't worry, I'm obsessed! My next vehicle will be the most fuel efficient or economical choice. Been following the threads on VW TDI vs. Hybrid Honda's., (Toyota's etc.) I've been turning off lights, A/C on low when needed in the house. I am more aware of energy waste then ever before. My driving habits have changed as I'm planning more scheduled stops while I'm in close proximity to that region. Keith echo'd you on the fuel lines and that has put me at ease. Phew! Thanks, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY. - Original Message - From: "Lyle Estill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > Kevin, > > I would go 100% biodiesel when you have it, top up with petro when you > have to, don't worry about the percentages. Some days you might run > B50, some B83, etc. > > Soon you will find yourself seeing how long you can stay on B100. Soon > you will be obsessed. You'll start carpooling, bumming rides, walking, > and changing your driving habits. > > Forget your fuel lines. They'll be fine. > > For 55F to 90F, I think 100% bd is indicated... > > On May 15, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Kevin Shea wrote: > > > While reading the below post for B20, the thought is...Can I add > > Biodiesel > > to my fuel tank (with existing petrol diesel present) in any > > proportions? I > > would prefer to mix BD with Petro as > > 1) I don't have enough to BD production to fill-up . > > 2) I have not yet replaced any rubber hoses to viton in my fuel lines. > > > > What mix is recommended (if any) for 55F-90F seasonal climate? > > > > Thanks for your inputs in advance, > > -Kevin > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Busyditch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > > > > > >> Mix 2 gallons of B100 with 8 gallons of petro diesel for the proper > >> blend.(B20 = 20%) > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "dewey_nc" <> > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:50 PM > >> Subject: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > >> > >> > >>> If you add 2 gal. of B100 to petrol. diesel, do you have B20? Are > >>> there any issues with blending? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >>> > >>> Biofuels list archives: > >>> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >>> > >>> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >> Biofuels list archives: > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >> > >> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > -~--> > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM > > - > > ~-> > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ &g
Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20
Hey Keith, I've been chucking all along! Thanks, as I wasn't sure. Also, you put me at ease with the link on the rubber lines. -Of course I'll inspect the lines from time-to-time. -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > Hellop Kevin > > Just chuck it in and go. Don't worry but changing the fuel lines, > something of an overrated concern, it will probably never happen. See: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#rubber > Biodiesel and your vehicle > Compatibility > Rubber > > If it does happen it won't be a sudden catastrophe, you'll have warning. > > Best > > Keith > > > > >While reading the below post for B20, the thought is...Can I add Biodiesel > >to my fuel tank (with existing petrol diesel present) in any proportions? I > >would prefer to mix BD with Petro as > >1) I don't have enough to BD production to fill-up . > >2) I have not yet replaced any rubber hoses to viton in my fuel lines. > > > >What mix is recommended (if any) for 55F-90F seasonal climate? > > > >Thanks for your inputs in advance, > >-Kevin > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Busyditch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:58 PM > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > > > > > > > Mix 2 gallons of B100 with 8 gallons of petro diesel for the proper > > > blend.(B20 = 20%) > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "dewey_nc" <> > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:50 PM > > > Subject: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > > > > > > > > > > If you add 2 gal. of B100 to petrol. diesel, do you have B20? Are > > > > there any issues with blending? > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20
While reading the below post for B20, the thought is...Can I add Biodiesel to my fuel tank (with existing petrol diesel present) in any proportions? I would prefer to mix BD with Petro as 1) I don't have enough to BD production to fill-up . 2) I have not yet replaced any rubber hoses to viton in my fuel lines. What mix is recommended (if any) for 55F-90F seasonal climate? Thanks for your inputs in advance, -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Busyditch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > Mix 2 gallons of B100 with 8 gallons of petro diesel for the proper > blend.(B20 = 20%) > - Original Message - > From: "dewey_nc" <> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:50 PM > Subject: [biofuel] B100 / B20 > > > > If you add 2 gal. of B100 to petrol. diesel, do you have B20? Are > > there any issues with blending? > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Is it true it is illegal to collect fat from fast food fryers in Calfornia?
Wow, I had no idea that fees were required in California. $825 for your vehicle and rendering license (Renewable annually). Also, add the road fuel taxes you report for each gal of biodiesel consumed in your vehicle, plus processing chemicalsand your basically broke! A huge price to pay in order to try and save the air we breath and decrease foreign dependability! Perhaps, if the WVO in its non-edible or edible state is used strictly for biodiesel, then I'm not sure Agriculture is the right department I should submit my fee to? I believe the rendering and transporting of WVO according to the pdf Agriculture document is only used in an Agriculture way and reused in food for livestock feed. I did not see any mention of biodiesel, unless it is embedded in one of the links somewhere? I'm not sure it is applicable? -a fee for all! Does anyone know what New York requires? -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Is it true it is illegal to collect fat from fast food fryers in Calfornia? > > On Friday, May 7, 2004, at 01:24 PM, TJ Ferreira wrote: > > > I just heard it is illegal to collect waste frying oil from any-place > > in Calfornia. Does anyone know if this is true or not and point me to > > legal documents on the web that state this. > > > The Department of Food and Agriculture, Meat and Poultry Inspection > Branch, > hereby amends section 300(c), and adopts new article 37.1 and sections > 1180.3.1 and 1180.3.2 of Title 3, California Code of Regulations, to > establish > enforcement fees in regulation, to specify the procedures to apply for > a > license or registration , and to specify the actual processing times for > licenses and registrations for rendering establishments, collection > centers, > and transporters of inedible kitchen grease. > > > http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/mpi/pdfs/enforcement-fees.pdf > > > describes the aforementioned amendments and adoptions. > > CDFA is Calif. Dept of Food and Agriculture > AHFSS is Animal Health and Food Safety Services > MPI is the Meat and Poultry Inspection Branch > > I can only assume that anyone making biodiesel in our state > has complied with the law and has obtained the necessary > permit to transport inedible kitchen grease. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Orange Biodiesel?
While still a rookie, I've produced 6-7 liters using WVO. My labor paid off with a neutral pH and amber clear biodiesel. However, can certain WVO oils mixed together produce a different color output? For example I received approximate 5 gal peanut oil, 15 gal canola and 1 gal of Soy Oil.that were donated to me from varies sources (All are WVO). I simply poured the WVO in my WVO drum for future bioprocessing. Upon processing, I completed 3 batches of 17 liters. I received good separation. After draining the biodiesel to a wash tank, I noticed that my output was murky and orange in color. I've washed the fuel twice and still it's orange and murky (even though the wash water is clear)! I did a gentle shake test using about 6 oz "orange" to 6 0z of water and it easily separated within minutes. Later, I shook the same container vigorously, no emulsions and good separation within minutes. I haven't tested the pH yet, but on the biases of the color I received, has anyone had orange biodiesel? It looks just like orange soda, but It smells exactly as biodiesel?. The processing phase seemed normal. Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Thanks for the posts! -Wouldn't the glycerin wash step or agitating the glycerin just recontaminate the top layer? Or is the glycerin beneficial in filtering the biodiesel (on its way to the bottom again)? Why wouldn't you discard the glycerin from the batch rather then remixing it? Glycerin, bad right? Also, Keith's number 18 > 18. Optional: For easier washing: Drain off the glycerin. Measure > off 25% of the total glycerin (including previously drained > glycerin if you followed step 15) and mix with 10 milliliters of 10% > phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for each litre of oil/fat processed. The > mixing can be done with a wooden spoon in a plastic container. Pour > the acidified glycerin back into the reactor and stir for 20 > minutes, unheated. Allow to settle for at least six hours and then > drain the glycerine fraction completely. I will have to try this. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel > Hi Ken > > >on 5/1/04 8:43 PM, Kevin Shea at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during > > > the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble > > > washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality > > > of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. > > > >One thing you can do that really helps A LOT (and is still > >not widely practiced for some reason) is the so-called > >"glycerine wash" step. After the glycerine separation occurs, > >you re-agitate the mix and let it settle again. Repeat a 2nd > >time. Then add some water (maybe 15% by volume) very gently, > >and very gently stir up the mix again. (You'd think this would > >form an emulsion, but it doesn't -- the glycerine still being > >in there prevents it). Repeat several times, letting the > >glycerine/water/alcohol phase settle out between remixes. > >When you finally take the biodiesel off the top, there's > >practically no alkali, no soap, and no alcohol left in it. > > > >I do this manually every batch, followed by a quick hot > >water bulk wash and a 8-12 hour bubble wash, and I can easily > >get from WVO to fuel in the car in 4 days. And most of that > >is just working around other things in my schedule. If you > >automated it, the whole thing could be done in 2 days, > >I suppose. -K > > That comes from here: > > [... when the processing's finished] > > 17. Allow to settle for one hour. > > 18. Optional: For easier washing: Drain off the glycerine. Measure > off 25% of the total glycerine (including previously drained > glycerine if you followed step 15) and mix with 10 milliliters of 10% > phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for each litre of oil/fat processed. The > mixing can be done with a wooden spoon in a plastic container. Pour > the acidified glycerine back into the reactor and stir for 20 > minutes, unheated. Allow to settle for at least six hours and then > drain the glycerine fraction completely. > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html > Foolproof biodiesel process: Journey to Forever > > It's been there for a long time. > > Best > > Keith > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel
Hello, Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the "settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques & understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a-week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used & know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to "shake" past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg? Anyone? Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] preheating WVO for water heater reactorRe: Kevin Shea
Mark, You described what I need to do to construct this tank in great detail and appreciate that, plus it avoids multiple follow-ups (and the posting delay). Thanks for the design! I have my pump from Harbor Freight on order and will be constructing your "$150.00 Fumeless Processor" in the days ahead using many of the photos and illustrations that you and fellow Biodiesel folks provided. I have lumpy WVO stuff from last month and needed to heat it before entering the processor. Your post provided that solution... A question regarding purchasing a new electric wtr heater unit...Do you recommend any models, size, etc.? I'm going to purchase a new unit, as I'm looking to get real production for my vehicle in the shortage time possible. Having completed several successful 15-17 liter batches, we are hoping to improve productivity and efficiently, so a mere 15 liter production isn't a full-time job! -Kevin - Original Message - From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:33 PM Subject: [biofuel] preheating WVO for water heater reactorRe: Kevin Shea > My suggestion for folks who only have thick oil available or people > who need to dewater is the following (sorry no photos of this design > available yet): > > take a closed-head (ie with two bungs rather than the type with a > removable lid) drum and turn it upside down. > > Cut off what used to be the bottom- the plain end without bungs.I cut > them using a sawzall. > > Take the end with bungs, and attach plumbing this way: > > smaller bung: use threaded pipe, a ball valve, and hose to turn the > small bung into a drain for this tank > > bigger bung: > get a plumbing adaptor called a 'bushing' that goes from a 2" to a 1" > plumbing size > buy an electric water heater heating element (they are in many > hardware stores), a small aluminum c-clamp, a selftapping screw, an > electric plug, and some electrical cord (I use heavier 12 gauge or 10 > gauge only). > > > Thread the water heater element into the bushing. I wrap the threads > with teflon tape, and I don't use the rubber gasket that comes with > the element. > > Wire it as follows: white and black wires of the cord go to either > screw of the heating element, it doesn't matter which as long as > you're using the white and black wires > green wire: that's the ground. This is important. You want to make a > way to attach the green wire to the barrel in case there's a short and > someone's touching the barrel. > > I take the selftapping screw and drill it into the small aluminum > c-clamp. I then make sure I have a few inches of green wire sticking > out from the heating element assembly, and I wire the green wire to > the selftapping screw. Presto, you've got a barrel ground clamp. > > wire the plug according to standard US wiring nstructions: gold screw > on the plug gets the black wire, and silver screw on the plug gets the > white wire, and GREEN screw on the plug gets the green wire. > > assembling: use LOTS of teflon tape and thread the bushing/heating > element into the 2" bung. Assemble the drain valve into the 3/4 inch > bung. > > Take the c-clamp and clamp it securely to the rim of the bottom of the > barrel. > > > Insulate the whole thing as well as you possibly can- you';ll save a > LOT of energy if you use adequate insulation. I use 5 or 6 inches of > bubblewrap insulation sometimes on these barrels. > Be aware that the terminals on the heating element are electrically > live- don't ever grab the barrel while the element is plugged in. I > now also use a sort of cover on it- a rubber/plastic housing from > another replacement plug, which is clamped over the cord and keeps > fingers out of the live terminals. > > I'll post some photos on Veggieavenger.com/media sometime. > > the way this barrel works with the water heater reactor is that you > can connect the barrel's drain tube to the drain/fill tube of the > reactor, close off the reactor's other lower valves, and turn on the > pump to fill the reactor. The good thing about the oil heat barrel is > that you can use to fill the reactor with thick or solid oil, or you > can use it to store WVO before you make a batch. Again, this lets you > use the reactor's nonselfpriming pump for every step of the process... > > Running 240V elements on household 120V current will give you 1/4 the > wattage, but 120V replacement elements (1500 or 1650 watts) are > available as well. > > Mark > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Shea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Mr Shea, I saw your message and I
Re: [biofuel] Heating tank to boil water/fatty acids to WVO before processing 10 gal batches
Hello Keith Thanks for your help and input. > I'm not sure what you mean by breaking down fatty acids. Ideally > they're triglycerides (three chains joined by a glycerine molecule), > your biodiesel process will convert them to mono-alkyl esters (single > chains with a methanol molecule). When triglycerides break down due > to heat or oxidation one or more chains split off to become Free > Fatty Acid molecules, leaving di- and mono-glycerides. More FFAs > means more soap and lower yields, and more difficult processing. Sorry, I mispoke, I mean breaking-down crystalized "lumpy" oil that will be a problem coming this Fall season. As long as in a design mode to create an efficiant processor, I'm trying to provide a way to include potential WVO senerios and incorparate solutions into the final design. This include receiveing WVO with water, as the "kid" from the restuarant didn't bother to put the lid on the WVO reclaim drum and > > This is one of several reasons given for NOT boiling the oil to > remove the water content - there's a danger of the high temps > creating more FFAs. Other reasons are that it might not work very > well (some of the water in fat molecules isn't removed that way), and > that it's a waste of energy. > > Instead, try heating the oil to 130-140 deg F, keep it here for 15 > minutes, then let it settle overnight, draw the oil off from the top. > If you find that's not satisfactory then try boiling the water off. > > Before doing either of those, check if it's even necessary - WVO > doesn't always contain water, or perhaps only minute quantities that > might not matter. Put some in a saucepan and heat it on a stove while > stirring and checking the temp. If it starts to snap-crackle-and-pop > at around 130 deg F it will need dewatering, if not it probably > won't. If it still doesn't crackle at 160F or so, it should be fine > without a dewatering step. > > One way for the boiling-off method not to be a waste of energy is to > use the heat for processing - let it cool off and start the process > when it's fallen to the right process temperature, 130F or whatever. > Looked at that way, the heat-and-settle method might use as much > energy as you'll have to re-heat it for processing the next day. > > Anyway, as far as breaking down crystallised fatty acids is > concerned, unless your WVO is for oil with a high melting point or > contains a lot of tallow, it shouldn't be an issue. Just go ahead and > process it, it will all have melted long before it reaches processing > temperature. If you have to deal with very cold winters (sounds like > you might have to) then you can do different things for summer and > winter biodiesel. This is from our Biodiesel in winter page: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html > > Winterized biodiesel > > Some people find their WVO biodiesel starts to gel at around 4-5 deg > C (40 deg F). This is because any saturated fats/oils in the WVO will > crystallise (solidify) at higher temperatures than unsaturated fats > and oils and separate out, clogging the filter. That includes tallow, > lard, palm oil, etc. > > To make WVO biodiesel for winter, heat the oil first, then cool it to > near 0 deg C (32 deg F); the saturated fats will crystallise out and > sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter > biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But even this > "winterized" biodiesel still won't go much below -5 deg C (23 deg F) > without gelling. > > >I'm hoping to construct this proposed 15 gal metal drum with electric heaters, > > Why do you want to use electricity? You could make a "Turk" type > burner and burn the glycerine cocktail by-product instead, much > cheaper and doesn't waste energy, and no need to fear an open flame > (any more than usual) as there's no methanol involved at this stage. > > Best > > Keith > > > >but could really use some help with what heaters I need and possibly > >vendor info that could heat batches? I would like this to be > >electric and not heated by a flame source. > > > >Any help. > >Send pictures to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Thank you, > >Kevin Shea > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -
Re: [biofuel] Kevin Shea
> Mr Shea, I saw your message and I also was wondering about a > seperate "processor" for incoming raw if you will, wvo. I came up > with a poly drum that I had with two 4500 watt water heater > elements. If you go with a thermostate, you won't get them hot > enough, least mine didn't, so I went w/o it and set them on a > reostate (a30amp one is strong enough) and I can get 225 degree plus > out of it. My barrel has sides strong enough to run the elements > into and Thanks for the info. Where do you get the two 4500 watt heaters? Canabolized water heater? I saw the horror when heater elements heat too much on poly drums or poly conacle tanks. Why not go all metal on the incoming raw WVO tank? Is 225F too hot for poly? I'm pretty sure 140F, poly starts to "melt" away. I assume the 225F is in the water heater module temp? > the set up and it works great. I do 25 gals at a time and thats 5 > gal of meth/lye mix at a time and get around 22 gal or so back. Sounds like 25 gal batches is the way to go for me. I can just pour the 5 gal meth from the container, since I purchase meth in 5 gal pails-no need to measure! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Heating tank to boil water/fatty acids to WVO before processing 10 gal batches
Hello, I've looked at all sorts of designs to base my processor on, but don't see too much emphasis on processor equipment designed to boiling WVO as the 1st step (to rid of water and to "breakdown" crystallized fatty acids) to prepare WVO to the next stage. (This would be filtered, titration gathered and introduced to intake valve to the fumeless processor, or some other method, etc.) I live in the Northeast USA and WVO crystallizes all the time. (Just last night, I left 3 carboys of oil on the porch and this morning all were 50% crystallized! I have oil under the porch that has solidified, but on sunny day's, it's perfect for processing! I would like to see a design able to heat a 15 gal drum. with 10 gal.of WVO to 212F-260F to remove water vapor from oil and to breakdown fatty acids. Some kind of kettle? I'm hoping to construct this proposed 15 gal metal drum with electric heaters, but could really use some help with what heaters I need and possibly vendor info that could heat batches? I would like this to be electric and not heated by a flame source. Any help. Send pictures to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fortune 500 WVO ?? - Keith
Hi Biobenz, Just wondering if you got my email? If not, Here it is... Saw your post regarding the Sean Park's Stand Pipe design. I too was going with this design, but decided against it. 1st reason if those bung NPT caps loosen, you just lost your batch and you have a big mess to clean!. I deliver 55 gallon drums every week, and the caps are always loose or stripped! My feeling is if you remove the tops often, I think it is a matter of time before the threads get stripped or you need to replace the gasket, cap or drum! Perhaps use a sealer on the threads as backup? 2nd reason is I would have to work underneath the drum or make some type of stand that has a void, so the valve wouldn't get crushed and be able to have access if needed. The stand could have worked okay, but it was another "thing" to make. Anyway, attached is a design http://members.tripod.com/ctauto/washtank.htm I put together using a 35 gallon drum, two 1/2" bulkhead ($9ea.), with 1/2" ball valves ($4.99ea.) and varies plumbing, including an inline 40 micron screen filter ($9.95) (Vendor also has 20 & 60 micron filter). I can't post pictures to the Yahoo group, so I sent you this email directtake a look. Also, to save on cost regarding drums, visit your local car wash. Their always trying to get rid of used drums. Sometimes they'll charge $5 per drum. Sometimes I'll drive by a car wash and empty drums are out by their dumpster. I just stop by after closing and put one in my back seat! I'm still working on my processor and just doing small production (15 liter batches), so far, I've made 28 liters and have filtered biodiesel before running it using coffee filters! I gave up the coffee filters on the first try, as it was way to time consuming! Currently, I used a funnel, with poly tubing and an inline Fram fuel filter (the pressure of the biodiesel coming down the funnel, in the tubing, helps "push diesel through" the filter) to do my last filter before it goes into the tank. This works well enough for now, until my future processor is built with complete inline filtration. Who knows when this will be completed, but for now, I have my wash tanks (I made a total of two wash tanks) Thank you, Kevin Shea - Original Message - From: "biobenz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fortune 500 WVO ?? - Keith > Thanks for the encouragement. This is just your run-o-the-mill out > in the back in a 45 gal drum Chinese restaurant WVO. > Is using the 70% isopropyl OK? > After a couple of hours (I didn't really observe it all that time > though) I have sepeartion in the product. One layer is VERY dark, > almost black and then the top layer is also dark but not as much as > the bottom layer. This is the first test batch I have done using WVO > and am just wondering if everything is OK, evn though it is so dark. > > Thanks again. > PS: I build my cabinet this weekend, God willing, and then I can get > the water heater and go to it, yea! I have the plumbing, I have the > buckets I'll need and I have a line on a poly tank (white one) that > I will be using for a wash tank using Sean Park's standpipe method. > I have the pump from Nothern Tool, so all I need to do is get some > housing for it and I should be ready to go in another week or so. > One little step at a time and we eventually get there :o)! > > Have a nice day. > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Either I have hit the fortune 500 of WVO or something is amiss. I Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel 15 Liter batches How to heat the oil with water?
Thanks to Keith and several readers for helping me along in biodiesel production. Keith explained how important it is to have adequate heated WVO during the reaction time. The was a real problem for me not having a heater, and I'm sure for many of you out there are still trying to collect that "salvaged" part from some dumpster or from somewhere?. However, this solution has helped me product 45 liter (3 batches) of flawless biodiesel this weekend and would like to share the simple and effective process of heating the batch for reaction. My batch is 15 liters WVO, 3.1 liter Methanol and usually 82.5 grams of Sodium Hydroxide. All processed in a 5 gal carboy. How do you heat the oil when you do not have the $150.00 fumeless solution? or an attached heaters welded to metal drum? Use an open metal tub (18 gallons capacity or more) and use your garden hose to fill the tub with hot water from your washer machine hot water faucet (or directly to your water heater spout). Turn up the temp on the waterheater to the hottest setting first as you will lose heat in the transfer (depending on the size and distance of your water hose to the target). Once the tub is filled to the correct level, place the 5 gallon carboy in the tub (Usually the water comes up about 3/4 the way up on the jug and level with the oil level within the jug). You may need to weigh the carboy down with some weights, as the carboy may start to float!) Turn on your mixer, add the sodium hydroxide and come back in an hour! The oil was 128 F. and dropped only 6 degrees to 122F when the mixing was completed. (Using an overhead drum mixer) * Don't forget to turn your water heater back to the previously set temp setting! -Kevin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Filtering Biodiesel, 100, 50, 5 micron filters
Hi Keith,
My titration indicated that I needed 2 ml of the lye/water solution for a pH
of 8-9
15 liters of WVO
82.5 grams Lye
3.75 liters of Methanol
I mixed in a 5 gal poly car boy using a drum mixer 15 minutes before added
the catalyst. Mixed for an hour. I did not have a fish heater or any type
of enclosed heater, so I used a better then nothing solutionI used a
heating pad strapped to the side of the carboy, set the temp to the highest
setting and wrapped a towel as insulation around the carboy during the
mixing. Temperature on the heating pad was 105 F. Not sure of how hot the
oil got inside, as the thermometer would not fit in the spout opening.
Next day, I received three separation layers, Bottom: Glycerin, Middle:
White wash: Top: Amber Biodiesel. I assume the white layer to be water from
the WVO I received from a pizza place in Norwalk Connecticut. After
draining, I ended up with approximately 12 liters. (Note: I boiled the WVO
before hand, using my old deep fryer from 212-260 F to try and remove as
much water as possible.)
I washed the finished 12 liters in another carboy where I used my gardening
hose to spray or atomize the best I could appox. 7 liters water into the cap
opening. Once the container was sealed, a quick gentle shake and let the
container sit for four days.
Thanks, I did see the bubble wash link before and will try that method soon.
I own a hydrometer, but it is not rated for thick liquids and did not bother
to use it .
-Kevin
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Filtering Biodiesel, 100, 50, 5 micron filters
> Hello Kevin
>
> >I finally have my batch of 12 liters of biodiesel. I filtered the
> >WVO with a large mesh basket and then using a window screen mesh.
> >Added the catalyst, and watched it separate.Washed it 1x with water
> >and let it sit for 4 days. Drained the water
>
> Did you heat it? How did you agitate it? How much lye did you use?
> And how did you wash it?
>
> Have you seen this?
>
> Bubble washing
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html
>
> >According to Josh's book, the recommended filtration before adding
> >to your fuel tank is a 5 micron filter
>
> There are those who say that book has a lot to answer for. Certainly
> it's wrong about a lot of things. You might care to have a look at
> this:
>
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31729/
>
> >I have search the internet for "micron values" of coffee filters &
> >restaurant conical filters, but cannot find any specifications
> >listed.
> >
> >I have been on racor.com maker of advanced filtration systems, but
> >my processor is manual (caveman) and need a basic conical or gravity
> >style filter (with a rating of 5 microns) ...where I can pour
> >biodiesel from a spout. (Yes, me manually pouring into a filter!)
>
> "Vegetable oil filter cones are made of "Pelon", a generic term which
> can be cotton fiber but is more often synthetic, the longer-lived
> usually being synthetic. It can include adhesive versions of both
> ("fusible pelon"). Both cotton and synthetic Pelon run between 1.5
> and 1.75 ounce for filters. Standard Pelon is usually 1.25 ounce. The
> thicker Pelons can be found in any upholstery supply warehouse in 48"
> or 96" bolts." (Todd Swearingen, Appal Energy.)
>
> I don't know the micron rating of Pelon.
>
> >Sorry for the basic questions, but there is a lot of
> >reading-between-the-lines with the books and articles I have read to
> >date For example, a suggestion of using a restaurant conical filter
> >for filtering biodiesel is recommended, but no micron information is
> >stated. Just to be sure about not damaging my fuel system &
> >clogging my trucks fuel filter, what's the value of this style
> >filter?
> >
> >Or what some of you folks are doing to get a manual 5 micron filtration?
> >
> >I hope to eventually get advanced with pumps, heaters and inline
> >filtration, but I'm not ready with a design and will need to spend
> >some $$$ with this advanced design. I'm am eager to get going with
> >a manual carboy processor
>
> What is a manual carboy processor?
>
> Why don't you rig something like this?
>
> Simple 5-gallon processor
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html
>
> > and produce 12-15 liters per week and do not know what type of
> >filter to purchase to complete the process.
> >
> >Thanks all!
> >
> >PS: I'm sure some folks have posted this question before and do not
> >know of a FAQ's list, if one exist?
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
> Make your own biodiesel
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
[biofuel] Filtering Biodiesel, 100, 50, 5 micron filters
I finally have my batch of 12 liters of biodiesel. I filtered the WVO with a large mesh basket and then using a window screen mesh. Added the catalyst, and watched it separate.Washed it 1x with water and let it sit for 4 days. Drained the water According to Josh's book, the recommended filtration before adding to your fuel tank is a 5 micron filter I have search the internet for "micron values" of coffee filters & restaurant conical filters, but cannot find any specifications listed. I have been on racor.com maker of advanced filtration systems, but my processor is manual (caveman) and need a basic conical or gravity style filter (with a rating of 5 microns) ...where I can pour biodiesel from a spout. (Yes, me manually pouring into a filter!) Sorry for the basic questions, but there is a lot of reading-between-the-lines with the books and articles I have read to date For example, a suggestion of using a restaurant conical filter for filtering biodiesel is recommended, but no micron information is stated. Just to be sure about not damaging my fuel system & clogging my trucks fuel filter, what's the value of this style filter? Or what some of you folks are doing to get a manual 5 micron filtration? I hope to eventually get advanced with pumps, heaters and inline filtration, but I'm not ready with a design and will need to spend some $$$ with this advanced design. I'm am eager to get going with a manual carboy processor and produce 12-15 liters per week and do not know what type of filter to purchase to complete the process. Thanks all! PS: I'm sure some folks have posted this question before and do not know of a FAQ's list, if one exist? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Where to buy equipment?
Thanks Brian, I've scratched my head on this setup also... Several questions also come to mind, as in how long to leave the pump going to recalculate the mix. Also, I'm assuming the 120 F. degree temperature that is ideal should be set on the thermostat. What valves to open when and so forth etc. Does anyone who has followed Girl Mark's processor plan have any photo's of the completed setup? Also a step-by-step procedure? For example, open valve X, fill water heater with X amount Another question: How do you heat up the crystallized WVO, in order to pump it in the water heater? I live in the USA northeast, and have WVO the consistency of mash potatoes. Can the pump handle this? Thank you, as I'm looking for a complete solution to process Biodiesel. -Kevin - Original Message - From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Where to buy equipment? > Thanks to all for your replies. It has been helpful. I do plan to > start small to get the feel for what I'm doing with this. However, > using about 20 gal of fuel per week and not wanting to spend every > weekend making fuel, I plan to move up pretty quickly. I did have a > question about the Girl Mark $150 Fumeless Processor. It appears > that the mixing is done by using the pump to recirculate the mix > during processing. Is this actually the case? If so, I am assuming > that the pump mentioned, from Northern Tool, is able to handle > liquids at the temperatures at which processing takes place. Has > anyone experienced any difficulties using these pumps in this > application? As always, your help is appreciated. > > Brian > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing Biodiesel Turnaround Time?
I have Josh Tickell's book "From the fryer to the fuel tank" and it explains that washing the biodiesel adds "several" days to the process. What is several days? Is two days enough? three? Perhaps other variables delay the washing, but what is a good rule-of-thumb from our groups members? Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method
Thanks for everyones input. I'll give the shake method a try and also try some of the other suggestions in the near future. -Kevin - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method > In a message dated 04/08/2004 3:23:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > mix 3.75 liters of methanol to the appropriate amount of sodium hydroxide in > a 5 gallon carboy (with small hole drilled in cap) and let mix for 15 minutes. > My problem is that the sodium hydroxide fails to dissolve completely with > the methanol. I can see lots of clumped Lye! > I mix about the same amount as you in the same type of container. I use the > shake up method. I shake it for a few min and let it sit for a few min. then > I shake it some more until I can't see any chunks any more. It takes a little > while to do but in a sealed container just the gentle shaking works good. > > Rick M > Brownstown, Mi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method
Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to agitate the Lye powder into the methanol? I use a type 20 Lightning mixer (with small propeller agitator), but have problems with the dissolving of Sodium Hydroxide I mix 3.75 liters of methanol to the appropriate amount of sodium hydroxide in a 5 gallon carboy (with small hole drilled in cap) and let mix for 15 minutes. My problem is that the sodium hydroxide fails to dissolve completely with the methanol. I can see lots of clumped Lye! I hate this part of the process!!! and it is the most dangerous!! I take as much precaution as possible not to expose myself and wear proper safety protection. I'm not crazy about mixing for longer period with an electric mixer or have something happen to cause a catastrophic event, so I'm trying to minimize this danger window of this process Most likely I'll mix the next batch of Sodium Methoxide in a smaller carboy (HDPE), and that should hopefully help. Maybe the propeller shaft should be a larger design?? Anyway, I'm interested in the most efficient (Safe) methods and how long agitation should be? I use the Red Devil powder Lye. Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
