[biofuels-biz] Re: Dave's calculations....
Hi I've tried a heat exchanger to pre heat cold oil before it hits the hot plate - it's either too effiecnt or to restrictive - the oil seems to congeal in the tubes. Next plan is a larger hot plate with heat exchanger above to collect heat from steam to pre heat oil, somthing like and auto transmission cooler is about right. Condensed water could return via my existing heat exchanger. i'm not convinced that the heat input would be the same as heating a whole barrel. Only the wet oil needs heating to boiling point, this is at most the bottom third. By heating a whole drum you need all the oil above boiling point so the water doesn't condense before it reaches the surface. By using the hot plate, although not fast, you only need to heat the wet oil. Some heat will precipiat upwards in the drum and you should end up with a tank of oil about 60 degs not 120(estimate) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bill Althouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a thermally cascaded batch process, (the dry hot oil is used to heat the > incoming wet oil), energy usage can be cut by over 90% with a counter flow > heat exchanger and insulated tanks and lines. Counter flow exchangers are > very efficient and easy to make. > > Bill > www.enviroactive.com > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 3:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Dave's calculations > > > Hi jan/dave > > YOur calculations seem to match my guesses. I'm using a 1100 watt > element which seems to produce a lot of steam. I reckon it will boil > of all the water (from a 160 litre batch) in about 4 hours and leave > it at a sensible temp for processing. > > Perhaps one of you that's good at the maths will confirm that this > uses less energy than haeting the whole drum to 120+ degs to remove > the water. > > ANy idea how much heat i could recover from the steam? > > Simon > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jan Surwka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > Your calculations are OK. > > > > All the others, please give the attention of the ratio of apparent > heat to latent heat > > > > latent heat is always a huge amount. > > > > jan > > thermo-dynamics specialist > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ujOgTC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Dave's calculations....
Hi jan/dave YOur calculations seem to match my guesses. I'm using a 1100 watt element which seems to produce a lot of steam. I reckon it will boil of all the water (from a 160 litre batch) in about 4 hours and leave it at a sensible temp for processing. Perhaps one of you that's good at the maths will confirm that this uses less energy than haeting the whole drum to 120+ degs to remove the water. ANy idea how much heat i could recover from the steam? Simon --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jan Surwka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Your calculations are OK. > > All the others, please give the attention of the ratio of apparent heat to latent heat > > latent heat is always a huge amount. > > jan > thermo-dynamics specialist > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: drying waste oil
I've now made the protoype and it seems to work. Another advantage over heating a drum is it will require less energy and can be left unattended. A tank of WVO settles into 3 layers. Clean oil at the top, wet oil in the middle and water at the bottom. If I take the oil/water from the bottom, heat and return to the bottom of the tank the dry oil will rise and any wet oil will sink to the bottom to be returned to the heater. After a few cycles there will be enough heat for the water to boil off easily, with only the bottom layer rising in temp by much. When the sizzling stops thge oil is dry. A quick stir will even out the temp ready for processing. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Yes it does make sense. A molecular still works on this principal. A > large metal basket(1metre) with sides that taper out at the top > rotates at a few hundred revs within a basket of heating coils. The > feed stock migrates up the inside in a thin layer. In this case the > water could evaporate efficiently without much heating of the oil > that wouldd reach the top dry. Worth a try!! Got to go. > Regards from Harry. > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Here's my thought, something i'm working on but not finished. > > > > Water will absorb more heat than the oil - that's why if you hold a > > spoonful above a flame it bubbles, the water is boiling but the oil > > doesn't take up much heat. Also electric elements tend to burn out > > in oil for the same reason. > > > > If you pass the wet oil over a hot plate in a thin enough layer > with > > the plate temp set at abot 150 deg c the water should boil off > > instantaniously but the oil will not absorb as much heat, probably > > ending up at the right temp for processing. > > > > Does this make any sense > > > > Simon > > http://www.veggiepower.org.uk > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I searched the archives and there dos'nt seem to be much info on > > > drying heavily used waste oil. In my recent experience simply > > heating > > > the oil to 60 degrees C and letting it settle does not seem to > > work. > > > Boiling the stuff off is expensive and time consuming unless > > > specialist equipment is used. I concluded that a vaccuum pump > could > > > be used to remove the steam effectively. Has anybody tried this > and > > > what are the best pumps? Anybody got any other ideas? It's also > > > interesting to see the oil change colour from creamy white > through > > > brown to black (cold). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: drying waste oil
Here's my thought, something i'm working on but not finished. Water will absorb more heat than the oil - that's why if you hold a spoonful above a flame it bubbles, the water is boiling but the oil doesn't take up much heat. Also electric elements tend to burn out in oil for the same reason. If you pass the wet oil over a hot plate in a thin enough layer with the plate temp set at abot 150 deg c the water should boil off instantaniously but the oil will not absorb as much heat, probably ending up at the right temp for processing. Does this make any sense Simon http://www.veggiepower.org.uk --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I searched the archives and there dos'nt seem to be much info on > drying heavily used waste oil. In my recent experience simply heating > the oil to 60 degrees C and letting it settle does not seem to work. > Boiling the stuff off is expensive and time consuming unless > specialist equipment is used. I concluded that a vaccuum pump could > be used to remove the steam effectively. Has anybody tried this and > what are the best pumps? Anybody got any other ideas? It's also > interesting to see the oil change colour from creamy white through > brown to black (cold). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
SVO - was Re: [biofuels-biz] Worst fears realized!!
Hi John Nichols conversion is not at the location given as i've changed the site around. It can now be found by visiting http://www.veggiepower.org.uk and going to Goat industies veg oil conversion. There is also a page for links to biodiesel producers, at the moment it is empty. If anyone would like a link or other details listed I'd be pleased to do so. Simon --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >what is an svo conversion? > > Here are some resources on SVO, from "Biodiesel resources on the Web": > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html > > Straight vegetable oil > > The book "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" by Joshua Tickell has > how-to details on both kerosene mixes and a stright vegetable oil > system. > http://www.veggievan.org/book/ > > Neoteric Biofuels Inc. works with straight vegetable oil (SVO) fuel > systems and has done long-distance promotional tours fuelled on > vegetable oil. > http://www.biofuels.ca > > See also John Nicholson's straight vegetable oil conversion at > Veggiepower -- photographs, diagram and description. > http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/john.htm > > TbyPressen, a Swedish company making small-scale oil-presses, has > much information on using straight vegetable oil as a diesel fuel, > including an online forum and links to other forums and resources > (some in English). > http://www.oilpress.com/ > > Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/M8mxkD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: methanol collection
Why do you need to collect the methanol? Unless your right on their doorstep it must be cheaper to have them deliver. Or is this a problem with North Wales? Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: UK Duty on Bio
To the best of my knowledge the reduction is 20p which works out to a duty rate of 25.8p/litre --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm a bit confused. In answer to a question about the UK duty on > Biodiesel I was told that... Tax will be reduced to 20p below the > prevailing rate on ULSD with effect from April 2001. > I've since been told however that the law will come into effect in > April 2002 and that the reduction will be 25.8 pence. > Can anyone please clarify? > Thanks - James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: NEW can you help?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Methanol out of hemp - > No figures available - too impractical. > Anyone disagree? No idea, but someone is uses hemp oil to make biodiesel. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fw: Methanol in the UK ?
Hi For small amounts look at a model shop. It's used as a model fuel. You can order it online from the model shop list under chemical suppliers on http://veggiepower.org.uk > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Free links
Hi All I'm happy to provide links to commercial biofuels from http://www.veggiepower.org.uk (unless someone else plans on starting up on my doorstep!!) Does anyone have info on testing to din51606? Simon Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Free links
Hi All I'm happy to provide links to commercial biofuels from http://www.veggiepower.org.uk (unless some else plans on starting up on my doorstep!!) Does anyone have info on testing to din51606? Simon Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: simons heating elements
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Simon, you mention on veggiepower how to build a biod processor, you were uncertain of the adequacy of your hot water heating element. > How did it perform? > thanks > Ian > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] It works fine. It takes about 3 hours to warm 160 litres of oil. Not quick but works for me, I turn it on at lunch time and start mixing when i finish work. I'll probably change to electric soon as it's all going to move. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: www.veggiepower.org.uk
Opps!!! sorted now.--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "chris rudge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Simon... Great idea for a UK site. > > Had a look, and sadly the pictures do not display. Maybe you have the file > name with a first letter as a capital somewhere?? > > Chris > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 6:25 PM > Subject: [biofuel] www.veggiepower.org.uk > > > > I've just set up www.veggiepower.org.uk. At the moment it links to > > my site but I'd like to use it as a "gateway" to uk sites on veggie > > fuel. If you'd like a link let me know. Or photos and text and I'll > > try and creat a page or two for you. > > > > Simon > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/837408/_/981552365/ -_-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[biofuel] www.veggiepower.org.uk
I've just set up www.veggiepower.org.uk. At the moment it links to my site but I'd like to use it as a "gateway" to uk sites on veggie fuel. If you'd like a link let me know. Or photos and text and I'll try and creat a page or two for you. Simon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/837408/_/981483932/ -_-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
