Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam, I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals for producing alcohol. The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But. The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side. Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India. On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders for ethanol. So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course. Regards, Subramanian "Pannirselvam P.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Manick I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development. Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help.Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sdPannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers Manickh Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make surethat all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.Wessex Ferret Clubwww.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Thank you, Mr juan, I have now full details of MTBE and only other use for it in industrial solvents but when a oil firm imports a large qty it can only be for mixing with petrol (gasoline) as an octane booster without caring for the health of unvary users. I am writing to (our) Govt of India. Regards, SubramanianJuan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Subramanian.For the possibles uses of MTBE try a search at the United States Patent Office using MTBE or Methyl Terbutyl Ether.www.uspto.gov/patft/index.htmlwww.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.htmlIt might be a lot but select for chemical synthesis using MTBE as one of the reacting compounds, specially if you know or are able to know, that they have at least a chemical reactor for organic synthesis. With that information you could look for the line of products from that 'reputed oil refining and marketing company' and guest if they can use in some of them. So, you will be somehow ready for the answer 'we use it for that products, not for gasoline'.Regards.Juan-Original Message-From: subramanian D.V [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 28/08 2005 10:18 AMFor: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Query on MTBEHello Members,MTBE - Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.Regards,Subramanian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Thanks keith, I raised the matter as the petroleum marketing companies are introducingslightly costlier petrol with brand names "extra mile", "speed petrol" and "premium petrol" etc. the distributors are unable to say what is the additive. The marketing company websites are equally vague. And now a reputed marketing company imports a huge qty of MTBE , the value added petrol is suspect and the citizens must know the hazards associated with it. Regards SubramanianKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello SubramanianNot of direct use, like Juan's reply, but this might be useful - factsheet and other resources on MTBE as an oxygenate additive:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_mtbe.htmlMTBE Fact SheetBest wishesKeithHello Members,MTBE Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.Regards,Subramanian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Query on MTBE
Hello Members, MTBE Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline. It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate additivewhen a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you. Regards, Subramanian__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen energy efficiencies
Bravo Keith ! The ethanol game is hotting up. Very solid facts presented by you for Ethanol. Then how individuals can undo the disinformation campaign. It's the media which makes or mars such people as Pimental -and their views, particularly if they are academics with a couple of alphabets prefixing suffixing their names and backed by an otherwise famous university. Finally what will the Govt decide ? I amkeeping track of the controversy and comments as its fallout will be world-wide Regards, Subramanian, D.V Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith wrote:I think it will not die until it is deliberately killed. Pimentel is debunked again and again yet he takes no notice, he just does it again. He's wrong and he knows he's wrong yet he keeps making these destructive claims. Publishing rebuttals just doesn't work, the disinformation campaign continues. Those publishing the rebuttals don't know how to play the media game like Pimentel does. It's time he was confronted by his detractors in a public debate and discredited, and his new sidekick Patzek with him. Their publishers must be made to account for their obviously skewed peer review.Some earlier studies showed a negative energy balance for corn ethanol. Only Pimentel and Patzek still do so.In 1991 Pimentel stated the net energy balance of corn ethanol was -33,517 btu.In 1989, Ho had put it at -4,000 btu.In 1990, Marland and Turhollow put it at 18,154.In 1992, Keeney and DeLuca put it at -8,438.In 1995 Lorenz and Morris put it at 30,589.In 1995 Shapouri et al. put it at 20,436In 1999 Agri. and Agri-Food, CAN found it was 29,826.In 1999 Wang et al. put it 22,500In 2002, Kim and Dale put it at 23,886 to 35,463 btu.In 2001, 10 years after his first study, Pimentel found it was even less than the first time, -33,562.Make a chart of these figures. Why do Pimentel's analyses stand out?- His corn yields date from pre-1992.- His value for energy required to produce ethanol and the ethanol yield date from pre-1980.- His figures for energy to produce fertilizer are 1990 worldwide values, not recent U. S. values.- He assumes all corn is irrigated (only 16% is) - virtually no irrigated corn is converted to ethanol.- He does not properly assign an energy credit for the high protein DDGS co-product.U.S. corn yields increased steadily from 80 bushels per acre in 1970 to 130+ bushels per acre in 2000.U.S. corn output per pound of fertilizer used increased from 0.33 bushels/lb. fertilizer in 1970 to 0.6 in 2000.Energy use intensity of ethanol plants has reduced by 40% in the case of the more common dry mills and about half that much for wet mills. Most ethanol in the U.S. is produced from dry mills.With his data 20 years out of date, Pimentel has republished his claims again and again since 2001, right up to now, joined a couple of years ago by Patzek. Pimentel must be asked why and on whose behalf he continues to ignore reality, and asked in a public forum for all to see.The data above and more come from the references cited here:http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.htmlIs ethanol energy-efficient?Best wishesKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Thank you Mr. Jain, for the encouraging infmn. I will premix the acetone with some petrol before putting it into the tank. Will keep in touch after 2 months of regular use in petrol driven car. Regards, DVS Y. K. JAIN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. Subramanian, I tried commercial acetone (the one commonly available in India with chemists and used as nail polish remover) in my diesel car @ 0.2% with ordinary diesel. The result as noticed by me under identical conditions of daily commuting was increase in kmpl from 17 to 19.5 . Additional effect noticed was cooler running of the engine and reduction in noise. During highway driving, while overtaking vehicles, I noticed better pick-up (the diesel cars are a bit sluggish as compared to gasoline cars) similar to gasoline cars. A quantitative check could, however be made only in laboratory conditions. A tip here: the acetone may be premixed with fuel to, say, a 5% or 10% mixture so that while it is being added to the fuel tank, it does not damage the tank hose as it flows down; it does not emit fumes that could be inhaled; the measurement accuracy is better (the quantity to be measured and added to the fuel tank does not remain too small to cause appreciable error) and the possibility of damage to car paint by its accidental spillage is reduced. The 0.2 % addition to fuel is not expected to do any damage to the rubber hoses. However, the risk perception and risk taking is personal in nature and, here also, laboratory tests would be required to establish long term effects. Anyway, I am already proceeding with acetone doped fuel for my car. Y. K. Jain - Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ begin:vcard n:;Y.K. JAIN, tel;cell:9810031075, 9818683570 tel;home:PHONE (R) 0120-2624480,95120-2624480 from Delhi tel;work:PHONE (O) 011-26107996 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:ENGINEERS INDIA LIMITED, version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:DGM (Vigilance) adr;quoted-printable:;;5th floor, E.I. Bhawan,=0D=0A1, Bhikaiji Cama Place,;New Delhi,;India;110066;INDIA x-mozilla-cpt:;2864 fn:Y.K. JAIN, end:vcard ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Thank you Doug, The experiment is for on the road driving under normal driving conditions for two months and only to see whether there is a mileage increase or not. I'll certainly keep an eye on plastic and rubber parts. Thank you Keith for yr encouragement and infmn that comml acetone is OK Regards, D.V.S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What worries me is that acetone is a super solvent, and I suspect it would have drastic effects on any plastic parts (gaskets?) or rubber parts (o-rings?) in your fuel system. If they don't dissolve, they might swell. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Keith Addison wrote: It's unlikely that you'll do your car any harm, please go ahead with your plan, and please do keep us informed of the results. By the way, I'm sure you don't need lab-quality acetone, I think the first message in the thread implied that by saying it was a widely available chemical, easy to get. Try it with commercial-grade. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Thank you Mr. Roy for yr helpful comments Regards, DVS ROY Washbish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi DVS It was YOUR question but it sure interests me also. I sure hope no one was REALLY put out by your use of acetone. I feel that they were actually looking for someone with TEST equipment of offer to do a more accepted engineering test. I guess we have a bunch of engineers here and that's fine. We could get some better info in the long run from them but in the mean time we could do as you have and do our own testing in our cars or whatever we have and share the info. ~BEST~ Roy subramanian D.V wrote: Hi , Gasolene( petrol ) costs in India about 95 cents a liter, roughly twice of its price in U.S. And is edging up towards a dollar and more. The possibility of getting more mileage by mixing with a small dose of acetone came up from a mail posted in this list. As one of the middle class using a car trying to balance my budget I decided to give it a try. Ive not even asked anybody else to try and report. I only put a harmless query about the difference between commercial acetone and lab quality acetone and added a footnote whether anybody else has tried this acetone mix with what results. I seem to have caused a minor Tsunami. If my experiment does not measure upto expectation, I have not hurt anybody else O.K. Thank you all for yr comments. Regards, D.V.S - Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Roy Washbish Certified Health Coach A HOME BUSINESS PRODUCTS THAT WORK PRODUCTS BUSINESS HTTP://WWW.TRIVITA.COM/11393920 - Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Hi , Gasolene( petrol ) costs in India about 95 cents a liter, roughly twice of its price in U.S. And is edging up towards a dollar and more. The possibility of getting more mileage by mixing with a small dose of acetone came up from a mail posted in this list. As one of the middle class using a car trying to balance my budget I decided to give it a try. Ive not even asked anybody else to try and report. I only put a harmless query about the difference between commercial acetone and lab quality acetone and added a footnote whether anybody else has tried this acetone mix with what results. I seem to have caused a minor Tsunami. If my experiment does not measure upto expectation, I have not hurt anybody else O.K. Thank you all for yr comments. Regards, D.V.S - Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Hello members, The information below came in one of the Emails. http://pesn.com/2005/03/ 17/6900069_Acetone/ Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage 15-35% Readily-available chemical added to gas tank in small proportion improves the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by eliminating the surface tension that causes some particulates to note fully vaporize. by Louis LaPointe Adapted by Sterling D. Allan with LaPoint's permission for Pure Energy Systems News Acetone (CH3COCH3), also called dimethylketone or propanone, is a product that can be purchased inexpensively in most locations around the world, such as in the common hardware store. Added to the fuel tank in tiny amounts, it aids in the vaporization of the gasoline or diesel, increasing fuel efficiency, engine longevity, and performance -- as well as reducing hydrocarbon emissions How Much to Use Add in tiny amounts from about one part per 5000 to one part per 500, depending on the vehicle -- just a few ounces per ten gallons of gas than demand . I have never seen a problem with acetone, and I have used ACETONE in gasoline and diesel fuel and in jet fuel (JP-4) for 50 years. See also Acetone as a Fuel Additive (index at PESWiki) Fuel The qty of acetone to be mixed with petrol works out 2cc to 20 cc per 10 litres of petrol. The PESWiki link mentioned does not give any guidance about the mixing ratio. I am about to try this on our family car . Acetone is available in the local chemicals market in 2 qualities-- commercial quality at the lower price equivalent of 2 U.S.dollars a litre and the one for laboratory use at 6 dollars a litre. Could any of the members of this forum tell me the difference between commercial quality and laboratory quality acetone? Does the ratio mentioned above for mixing with gasoline apply to commercial or lab quality acetone? Anybody else had the same positive result ? Regards, D.V.Subramanian. Chennai, India . - Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Where's Keith?
FUEL Pan has said a lot about this too: Our biofuel members has the knowlede to jointly develope this small biomass refinary concept first.Yet practical optimized design need to be done and some comunity should com forward to test and improve this integrated design. Let us all join hand and make this as simple and easy to make this biorefinary that can be run in villages. That's the sort of work we should be doing here. But we aren't. Why not? I dont want to go into the details which others in the forum may not agree and create more work for you in the form of a flood of EMails! You'd be welcome to go into detail, I believe that's what we're all doing here, or should be. Similar subjects are quite often discussed, whether it's Gandhi, Buddhist economics, Schumacher or Appropriate Technology, or indeed why sacred cows are and should be sacred. I think it enriches the discussion greatly and is most pertinent to the goals of this group. So please, feel free! Again wishing you a speedy recovery to normal andwith Regards, Thanks again D.V. Best wishes Keith Subramanian, D.V Keith Addison wrote: Many thanks, all, for your concern, I'm sorry to have bothered you. I was in hospital for five days. I'm back home now, recovering, but I'll have to take it easy for a while. This is the second time - I spent two weeks in hospital at the beginning of January. I'll be okay, the prognosis is good, just a matter of time. Thanks once again for your concern and good wishes. Keith wish you happy recovery to come back here , make this list much dynamic.There is need for your reply of many post here sd Pannirselvam Brasil Thankyou for saying so Pan, but I don't agree. I don't think there's any great need for my constant presence here, or at least there shouldn't be. When I was away in January very few people seem to have noticed, the list continued as usual, and several people said that was a sign of its maturity, which is what we were aiming for when we moved the list. See: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/07.html Pan, we've repeatedly talked of the need for a new direction and a new focus for the list, I much agree, and I know others do too. But have you noticed how nothing happens? I also said this at the time we moved: If it [the membership] should shrink to only 300, and they're members who're prepared to take it seriously, that it's a community, *their* community, and they behave like responsible, self-moderating community members, I'll be more than pleased. I'll be delighted. If we can achieve that kind of community here, I couldn't care less how many members it has. For two reasons. One is that I don't have the time to run any other kind of list - we don't have the time, Journey to Forever doesn't have it. Running this list has been costing us very heavily for the last two years or more, it's held us back, done us and our project harm. I've said so before, but I just stuck it out somehow. Not any more. I've also said quite a few times that we don't think biofuels is the most important part of our project, important of course, but just a part - but it's a very greedy part that means more important things have to go without. Not any more. The other reason, the more important one, is that such a list will be able to go about its business a LOT better and will achieve at least as much, regardless of how many members it has or doesn't have. That's what we're aiming for, and this is it - it either flies or it dies. It should fly. I know that a lot of people here want that. A lot of other people I didn't know before have now told me the same. (Thankyou!) Well, it's up to you. Get on with it. From: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/000113.html If it all STILL depends on me, then all that time and effort was wasted - many hundreds of hours and more. One man can't do this - what it NEEDS is not me but a community effort, as I've said all along. Otherwise? Let it die. Best wishes, and thanks again Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Where's Keith?
Dear Mr. Keith, I 've just come to know that you were hospitalied and back on the road to recovery. I pray for yr speedy recovery to normalcy and the good work you have been at. Hindu philosophy says that goodwork done for the community without expecting any return has its own rewards during yr current tenure (life) or the next . I dont want to go into the details which others in the forum may not agree and create more work for you in the form of a flood of EMails! Again wishing you a speedy recovery to normal andwith Regards, Subramanian, D.V Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many thanks, all, for your concern, I'm sorry to have bothered you. I was in hospital for five days. I'm back home now, recovering, but I'll have to take it easy for a while. This is the second time - I spent two weeks in hospital at the beginning of January. I'll be okay, the prognosis is good, just a matter of time. Thanks once again for your concern and good wishes. Keith wish you happy recovery to come back here , make this list much dynamic.There is need for your reply of many post here sd Pannirselvam Brasil Thankyou for saying so Pan, but I don't agree. I don't think there's any great need for my constant presence here, or at least there shouldn't be. When I was away in January very few people seem to have noticed, the list continued as usual, and several people said that was a sign of its maturity, which is what we were aiming for when we moved the list. See: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/07.html Pan, we've repeatedly talked of the need for a new direction and a new focus for the list, I much agree, and I know others do too. But have you noticed how nothing happens? I also said this at the time we moved: If it [the membership] should shrink to only 300, and they're members who're prepared to take it seriously, that it's a community, *their* community, and they behave like responsible, self-moderating community members, I'll be more than pleased. I'll be delighted. If we can achieve that kind of community here, I couldn't care less how many members it has. For two reasons. One is that I don't have the time to run any other kind of list - we don't have the time, Journey to Forever doesn't have it. Running this list has been costing us very heavily for the last two years or more, it's held us back, done us and our project harm. I've said so before, but I just stuck it out somehow. Not any more. I've also said quite a few times that we don't think biofuels is the most important part of our project, important of course, but just a part - but it's a very greedy part that means more important things have to go without. Not any more. The other reason, the more important one, is that such a list will be able to go about its business a LOT better and will achieve at least as much, regardless of how many members it has or doesn't have. That's what we're aiming for, and this is it - it either flies or it dies. It should fly. I know that a lot of people here want that. A lot of other people I didn't know before have now told me the same. (Thankyou!) Well, it's up to you. Get on with it. From: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/000113.html If it all STILL depends on me, then all that time and effort was wasted - many hundreds of hours and more. One man can't do this - what it NEEDS is not me but a community effort, as I've said all along. Otherwise? Let it die. Best wishes, and thanks again Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Gardening and Compost (new technique)
Friends, I see so many of you are interested in composting for gardens and small farms. There is a method to expedite the decomposition called vermi-composting -- kind of outsourcing the job to qualified worms --. Here's a local newspaper article on that. In fact I 've read somewhere else about special kind of earthworms which do the job in 3 -4 weeks. More on this after I get specific infmn. Article begins Vermiculture technology for small farmers A simple system of vermiculture (rearing earthworms) for rapid decomposition of organic farm and home residues has been designed by an eco-technologist at Chennai, India. This vermi-composting method can be adopted by small farmers and resource-poor marginal farmers to get wealth from waste explains Dr. Sultan Ismail, Professor of Zoology at New College, Chennai. Vermiculture is easy to practise, and uses only indigenous worms. The farmer rears them in pits 3m long, 1m wide and 1m deep, which can be easily dug with family labour. At the bottom of the pits, broken bits of earthen pots and broken bricks are laid to provide adequate drainage. Over that a 2.5cm layer of soil is spread and spats of fresh cowdung sprinkled. About 500 earthworms (all collected locally) may then be introduced in the pit, and covered with a thin layer of rice straw. Water should be splashed evenly over the last layer, and the pit covered with coconut fronds to protect the worms from sun and predatory birds. We recommend a composite culture of worms, which include burrowing types, surface feeders and column feeders. They do not compete with each other for food, and water, but on the contrary they are complimentary in nature explains Dr. Ismail. After an incubation period of 30 days, when the worms should have multiplied several fold, the farmers can start charging the pits with all kinds of organic residues. Each time a layer of 5 cm can be added and, after spreading them evenly, a thin layer of soil should be used to cover the organic residues. The pits can be charged once in three days till the level reaches to just a few centimeters from the top. Regular watering should be done to keep the right amount of moisture in the pits. In another 90 days, the worms would have done their job well, as indicated by the earthworm castings on the topmost layer of the bed. Farmers can collect the vermi-compost by digging out all the material from the pit. They should keep the material in a heap in the sun so that all the worms move down to the cool base of the heap. The farmers can then remove the top portions safely, powder the compost and sieve before applying to the fields. The worms collected at the base can be used for inoculating new vermi-composting pits. The quality of vermi-compost is far superior to other composts in terms of nutrients and other plant growth promoting substances. The cost of making 0.5 tonnes of vermi-compost is approx. Rs. 600 (about US $ 15), which the farmers can sell for Rs. 1,500 (about US $ 37.50). Three such vermi-composting pits in a farm of 0.4 hectare can meet the entire nutrient demands of most crops raised in such, according to crop experts. End of article- Try google search on vermicomposting in India . I'm sure you will get a number of useful links. Regards DVS Mani Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter Hi Keith and All ; Very interesting thread. I have 225 ht small wood trees that need to be cleared and composted. Will this type of material be finished in 28 days? It depends how you do it. It could be. It depends what you want too. Along with many others, Jean Pain uses such material in his system, but he wants it to stay hot all year, not just for a month. Wood chippers are not available here Really? A hammermill will do. and I am building my own. What size should the wood chips be (I assume this is a tradeoff between total chipper power used to shred and compost time)? It won't just be wood chips, eh? Leaves too, for one thing, plus bark of various grades, and branches of various grades, up to green young shoots. Not so easy to compost leaves on their own, they tend to pack down, cutting off the air supply, and the wax coating repels the micro-organisms. But a shredder or hammermill tears them up, exposing the tissue, and mixes it all up with the rest of the stuff so there's no aeration problem. Meanwhile the leaves add a lot of N to help the C:N ratio. As for the wood itself, chopping a stick into neat little lengths of an inch or two doen't help much, it's still just the ends that are exposed. You want to crush the thing, expose the fibres lengthwise. Anyway, Peter, we discussed this before - it's pigs you want. You can't make smoked rashers out of a shredder! Nor does it plough up the soil and manure it for you. Very obliging, pigs. Yes, yes, the book in question - still not finished scanning. But I've just uploaded another book,
RE: [Biofuel] Slogan
Crisp and to the point Joe. I like it Mani , DVS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How's this? Save the Earth use Biodiesel Joe Original Message Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Slogan From: Ken Provost Date: Sun, September 19, 2004 6:18 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 9/18/04 2:20 PM, Jeff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fossils Fuels are Extinct While Biodiesel is Alive and Growing! Is this a better one? Jeff Still too long, but I'd put a bumper sticker on my Beetle TDI that just said Fossil Fuels are Extinct. Reminds me of my old War is Obsolete sticker -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Slogan
Mr. Keith, Would junk the wars ( or warmongers) for ever make a better slogan for a sticker? Regards, Mani Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/18/04 2:20 PM, Jeff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fossils Fuels are Extinct While Biodiesel is Alive and Growing! Is this a better one? Jeff Still too long, but I'd put a bumper sticker on my Beetle TDI that just said Fossil Fuels are Extinct. That's good Ken! It hits home and it's a teaser, it'd get at least some people thinking about what isn't extinct, maybe starting to ask questions. Reminds me of my old War is Obsolete sticker -K Hasten the day when you can put one there saying Warmongers are Obsolete and it's just a superfluous statement of fact rather than a goal. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
