RE: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help
Jan, Could you please give references of the research papers on SVO use and deposit formation as mentioned in your e-mail bellow? No doubt about the conclusions but I would like to understand this issue in more detail. Best regards, Armando A.C. Rodrigues Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149 C.P 3279 Maputo 2 Maputo - Moambique e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Mensagem original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de Jan Warnqvist Enviada: quarta-feira, 30 de Maro de 2005 17:08 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Assunto: Re: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Hello Luke. I agree with you fully, but do not forget that SVO have a lower cetane number, and they tend to form deposits in the combustion surroundings. These deposits have a high cracking point (550-600oC) and the diesel engine is built for fuel with a max boiling point of 350oC, so the deposits will continue to form and grow until they cause trouble. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: WM LUKE MATHISEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Thanks for you input, I like the idea of capturing the heat and using it. I did just run into this from Biomass 2004 Biodiesel handling and use guidelines by the DOE enerty Efficiency and Renewable Energy. Raw or refined vegetable oil, or recycled greases that have not been processed into biodiesel, are not biodiesel and should be avoided. Research shows that vegetable oil or greases used in CI engines at levels as low as 10% to 20% can cause long-term engine deposits, ring sticking, lube oil gelling, and other maintenance problems and can reduce engine life. These problems are caused mostly by the greater viscosity, or thickness, of the raw oils (around 40mm 2/s) compared to that of of the diesel fuel for which the engines and injectors were designed (between 1.3 an d4.1 mm @/s). To avoid viscosity-related problems, vegetable oils and other feedstocks are converted into biodiesel. Through the process of converting vegetable oil or greases to biodiesel, we reduce viscosity of the fuel to values similar to conventional diesel fuel (biodiesel values are typically between 4 and 5 mm 2.s). I just paid $4000 for a genset and would like it to last the 20,000 to 50,000 hours it was designed for. Are there any studies out there that contradict the DOEs studies? - Original Message - From: Gene Chaffinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/29/2005 10:45 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Set up help Jeremy: I started with an 8KW china diesel which runs at 2000rpm and consumed .8 gallons per hour. I now do not consider these china diesels capable of 24/7 operation, eventhough I did get 6,200 hours out of one. I am now using a Detroit 2-71 12 KW genset which consumes 1.1 gallons per hour of wvo. I have only been using the Detroit genset for two weeks now but I do like the fact that it revolves at a slow 1200 rpm and does not have a fuel injection pump like most diesel engines. I don't just produce electricity I also use the waste heat from the cooling system as well as the waste heat from the exhaust. The waste heat is used to heat up the vege oil and warm the water on my fish farm so the little rascals don't go into hybernation. If you make use of all of the parasitic heat available from your genset you will have no problem running straight veg oil, I don't care if you live in Alaska. It freezes where I am and I still had to install a swamp cooler to keep the generator room comfortable. Make use of the water jacket heat and exhaust heat to provide your domestic hot water and heat your house. I have not had any fuel system maladies. Most of the problems I was experiencing with the China diesels was with the valve train...they needed valve jobs every 2000 hours. My learning curve is rather long at this point so don't hesitate to pick my brain as you progress. I am now in the process of installing a 20 KW Northern Lights genset which has a similar engine to your Isuzu. It has the Bosh/Kiki fuel injection pump. I do not expect to have any problems with that conversion to wvo. Good luck. Gene Chaffin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeremy Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Luke and Gene, Running straight WVO through your genset is great if you life in sunny california, but I would not rely on that in Missoula. WVO in Missoula would require a hefty investment in time and materials to create an environment equal to that of california in a shed. Also, it is very difficult
Re: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help
Hello Luke. I agree with you fully, but do not forget that SVO have a lower cetane number, and they tend to form deposits in the combustion surroundings. These deposits have a high cracking point (550-600oC) and the diesel engine is built for fuel with a max boiling point of 350oC, so the deposits will continue to form and grow until they cause trouble. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: WM LUKE MATHISEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Thanks for you input, I like the idea of capturing the heat and using it. I did just run into this from Biomass 2004 Biodiesel handling and use guidelines by the DOE enerty Efficiency and Renewable Energy. Raw or refined vegetable oil, or recycled greases that have not been processed into biodiesel, are not biodiesel and should be avoided. Research shows that vegetable oil or greases used in CI engines at levels as low as 10% to 20% can cause long-term engine deposits, ring sticking, lube oil gelling, and other maintenance problems and can reduce engine life. These problems are caused mostly by the greater viscosity, or thickness, of the raw oils (around 40mm 2/s) compared to that of of the diesel fuel for which the engines and injectors were designed (between 1.3 an d4.1 mm @/s). To avoid viscosity-related problems, vegetable oils and other feedstocks are converted into biodiesel. Through the process of converting vegetable oil or greases to biodiesel, we reduce viscosity of the fuel to values similar to conventional diesel fuel (biodiesel values are typically between 4 and 5 mm 2.s). I just paid $4000 for a genset and would like it to last the 20,000 to 50,000 hours it was designed for. Are there any studies out there that contradict the DOEs studies? - Original Message - From: Gene Chaffinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/29/2005 10:45 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Set up help Jeremy: I started with an 8KW china diesel which runs at 2000rpm and consumed .8 gallons per hour. I now do not consider these china diesels capable of 24/7 operation, eventhough I did get 6,200 hours out of one. I am now using a Detroit 2-71 12 KW genset which consumes 1.1 gallons per hour of wvo. I have only been using the Detroit genset for two weeks now but I do like the fact that it revolves at a slow 1200 rpm and does not have a fuel injection pump like most diesel engines. I don't just produce electricity I also use the waste heat from the cooling system as well as the waste heat from the exhaust. The waste heat is used to heat up the vege oil and warm the water on my fish farm so the little rascals don't go into hybernation. If you make use of all of the parasitic heat available from your genset you will have no problem running straight veg oil, I don't care if you live in Alaska. It freezes where I am and I still had to install a swamp cooler to keep the generator room comfortable. Make use of the water jacket heat and exhaust heat to provide your domestic hot water and heat your house. I have not had any fuel system maladies. Most of the problems I was experiencing with the China diesels was with the valve train...they needed valve jobs every 2000 hours. My learning curve is rather long at this point so don't hesitate to pick my brain as you progress. I am now in the process of installing a 20 KW Northern Lights genset which has a similar engine to your Isuzu. It has the Bosh/Kiki fuel injection pump. I do not expect to have any problems with that conversion to wvo. Good luck. Gene Chaffin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeremy Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Luke and Gene, Running straight WVO through your genset is great if you life in sunny california, but I would not rely on that in Missoula. WVO in Missoula would require a hefty investment in time and materials to create an environment equal to that of california in a shed. Also, it is very difficult to collect WVO oil in freezing temps, or do anything with WVO in freezing temps. I have a 12k isuzu generator that I am hoping to run with a diesel/biofuel mix. I think the best we could do is Biofuel in the summer and a mix in the winter, something greater than 50/50. I think it would be best to process your fuel in the summer, and store it with diesel for the winter. That would require knowing how much fuel you would need over the winter, probably close to a half gallon an hour for you lister petter. Gene: could you describe your generator, what load you run
