Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
details of purchase / plans be accessed? - Les. It's a forward from another list, as it says. You'll find Dr Karve's address at the beginning of Part 1. He's in Inida. Inida??? Aarghhh! Sorry, it should be India, of course. :-( Keith Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar >From: "Robert Deutsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 >Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > >PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size >requirements of the listserv) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
On Apr 6, 2005 5:28 AM, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Very interested in your process, in N.A. applications. How can > >details of purchase / plans be accessed? > >- Les. > > It's a forward from another list, as it says. You'll find Dr Karve's > address at the beginning of Part 1. He's in Inida. > > Keith > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Keith Addison > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:59 PM > > Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > > > > > > >From: "Robert Deutsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 > > >Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > > > > > >PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size > > >requirements of the listserv) > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qumica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Ps Graduao em Engenharia Qumica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitrio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
details of purchase / plans be accessed? - Les. It's a forward from another list, as it says. You'll find Dr Karve's address at the beginning of Part 1. He's in Inida. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar >From: "Robert Deutsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 >Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > >PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size >requirements of the listserv) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
On Apr 6, 2005 1:20 AM, Leslie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Very interested in your process, in N.A. applications. How can details of > purchase / plans be accessed? > - Les. > - Original Message - > From: Keith Addison > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:59 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > > >From: "Robert Deutsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 > >Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > > > >PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size > >requirements of the listserv) > > > >Production > >This system uses starchy or sugary material as feedstock. 1kg of > >sugar or starch yields about 400 litres of methane, within a period > >of 6 to 8 hours. This quantity is enough for cooking one meal for 5 > >to 6 persons. The biogas produced by this system contains > >theoretically about equal volumes of carbondioxide and methane, but > >in reality, it turned out to have less than 5% carbondioxide. This > >phenomenon is explained by the fact that carbon dioxide dissolves in > >the water in the fermenter vessel and diffuses out of it through the > >1 cm gap between the fermenter and the gas holder. > > > >We are getting about 250 g of methane per kg of flour. The values > >are approximations based on the volume of the gas and the crude > >analysis that was done in a chemistry lab. We are making > >arrangements with a government certified analytical lab for getting > >both the gas and the slurry analysed, and hope to come out with more > >reliable figures. The grain flour contains almost 10% protein and > >about half a percent of seed coat material, along with small > >quantities of fat in the embryo. > > > >Mr. Malar wanted to know the production potential of oilcake to > >methane. The biodigester working on oilcake of Madhuka indica > >actually uses 30 to 32 kg of oilcake (and not 16) to produce about > >15 cubic meters of methane. The time taken by this reaction is just > >24 hours. The weight of methane produced would be about 5.5 kg, > >having a clorific value of roughly 10,000 KCal/kg. > > > >[ From Nandu] Because of the residual oil and the high protein > >content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than > >that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, > >this particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the > >conventional biogas plants. Another person, with whom we are > >collaborating, has a biogas plant producing daily 40 cubic meters of > >gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000kg dung, but now he is using > >daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15 kg sorghum grain flour. > >He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum, as he feels > >that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their daily > >dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour > >and reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets > >an efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system. In > >the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into > >the fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice > >that of the volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. > > > >Starch, sugar, powdered oilcake, grain flour or powdered seed of any > >plant, take about the same time to digest and also produce the same > >amount of gas. It is likely that our high methane content is a > >result of a reaction 4H2 + CO2 = CH4 + 2H2O. Because very little > >work has been done by scientists on use of high calorie feedstocks, > >there is quite a lot of speculation about the high methane content > >that we are getting. > > > >Under our temperature and pressure, 1 cubic meter of biogas produced > >by a typical dung based biogas plant (50% each of CO2 and CH4) > >weighs about a kg. CH4 is about a third as heavy as CO2., therefore, > >in this case, 500 litres of CH4 would weigh about 250 g and the > >remaining 500 litres of CO2 would weigh about 750 g. I our case, we > >get almost pure methane, and it takes about 1 kg of flour to produce > >500 litres of it. Therefore we came to the conclusion that our > >biogas plant gives 250 g of methane per kg of feedstock. We haven't > >found much difference in different species of grain > >
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
Very interested in your process, in N.A. applications. How can details of purchase / plans be accessed? - Les. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar >From: "Robert Deutsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 >Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar > >PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size >requirements of the listserv) > >Production >This system uses starchy or sugary material as feedstock. 1kg of >sugar or starch yields about 400 litres of methane, within a period >of 6 to 8 hours. This quantity is enough for cooking one meal for 5 >to 6 persons. The biogas produced by this system contains >theoretically about equal volumes of carbondioxide and methane, but >in reality, it turned out to have less than 5% carbondioxide. This >phenomenon is explained by the fact that carbon dioxide dissolves in >the water in the fermenter vessel and diffuses out of it through the >1 cm gap between the fermenter and the gas holder. > >We are getting about 250 g of methane per kg of flour. The values >are approximations based on the volume of the gas and the crude >analysis that was done in a chemistry lab. We are making >arrangements with a government certified analytical lab for getting >both the gas and the slurry analysed, and hope to come out with more >reliable figures. The grain flour contains almost 10% protein and >about half a percent of seed coat material, along with small >quantities of fat in the embryo. > >Mr. Malar wanted to know the production potential of oilcake to >methane. The biodigester working on oilcake of Madhuka indica >actually uses 30 to 32 kg of oilcake (and not 16) to produce about >15 cubic meters of methane. The time taken by this reaction is just >24 hours. The weight of methane produced would be about 5.5 kg, >having a clorific value of roughly 10,000 KCal/kg. > >[ From Nandu] Because of the residual oil and the high protein >content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than >that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, >this particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the >conventional biogas plants. Another person, with whom we are >collaborating, has a biogas plant producing daily 40 cubic meters of >gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000kg dung, but now he is using >daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15 kg sorghum grain flour. >He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum, as he feels >that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their daily >dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour >and reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets >an efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system. In >the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into >the fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice >that of the volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. > >Starch, sugar, powdered oilcake, grain flour or powdered seed of any >plant, take about the same time to digest and also produce the same >amount of gas. It is likely that our high methane content is a >result of a reaction 4H2 + CO2 = CH4 + 2H2O. Because very little >work has been done by scientists on use of high calorie feedstocks, >there is quite a lot of speculation about the high methane content >that we are getting. > >Under our temperature and pressure, 1 cubic meter of biogas produced >by a typical dung based biogas plant (50% each of CO2 and CH4) >weighs about a kg. CH4 is about a third as heavy as CO2., therefore, >in this case, 500 litres of CH4 would weigh about 250 g and the >remaining 500 litres of CO2 would weigh about 750 g. I our case, we >get almost pure methane, and it takes about 1 kg of flour to produce >500 litres of it. Therefore we came to the conclusion that our >biogas plant gives 250 g of methane per kg of feedstock. We haven't >found much difference in different species of grain > >I wish to correct the figures of oilcake used and biogas generated. >It takes daily about 30 kg oilcake to produce 15 cubic meters of >gas. But this gas consists of almost pure methane. It is not a case >of co-generation, but direct fermentation. Cattle dung was used only >initially as a source of bacteria, but for more than a month, they >are using only oilcake. >
[Biofuel] Fwd: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:12:35 +0700 Subject: [Bioenergy] Part 2 - Biogas from starch and sugar PART 2 (this message has been cut to conform to the file size requirements of the listserv) Production This system uses starchy or sugary material as feedstock. 1kg of sugar or starch yields about 400 litres of methane, within a period of 6 to 8 hours. This quantity is enough for cooking one meal for 5 to 6 persons. The biogas produced by this system contains theoretically about equal volumes of carbondioxide and methane, but in reality, it turned out to have less than 5% carbondioxide. This phenomenon is explained by the fact that carbon dioxide dissolves in the water in the fermenter vessel and diffuses out of it through the 1 cm gap between the fermenter and the gas holder. We are getting about 250 g of methane per kg of flour. The values are approximations based on the volume of the gas and the crude analysis that was done in a chemistry lab. We are making arrangements with a government certified analytical lab for getting both the gas and the slurry analysed, and hope to come out with more reliable figures. The grain flour contains almost 10% protein and about half a percent of seed coat material, along with small quantities of fat in the embryo. Mr. Malar wanted to know the production potential of oilcake to methane. The biodigester working on oilcake of Madhuka indica actually uses 30 to 32 kg of oilcake (and not 16) to produce about 15 cubic meters of methane. The time taken by this reaction is just 24 hours. The weight of methane produced would be about 5.5 kg, having a clorific value of roughly 10,000 KCal/kg. [ From Nandu] Because of the residual oil and the high protein content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, this particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the conventional biogas plants. Another person, with whom we are collaborating, has a biogas plant producing daily 40 cubic meters of gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000kg dung, but now he is using daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15 kg sorghum grain flour. He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum, as he feels that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their daily dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour and reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets an efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system. In the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into the fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice that of the volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. Starch, sugar, powdered oilcake, grain flour or powdered seed of any plant, take about the same time to digest and also produce the same amount of gas. It is likely that our high methane content is a result of a reaction 4H2 + CO2 = CH4 + 2H2O. Because very little work has been done by scientists on use of high calorie feedstocks, there is quite a lot of speculation about the high methane content that we are getting. Under our temperature and pressure, 1 cubic meter of biogas produced by a typical dung based biogas plant (50% each of CO2 and CH4) weighs about a kg. CH4 is about a third as heavy as CO2., therefore, in this case, 500 litres of CH4 would weigh about 250 g and the remaining 500 litres of CO2 would weigh about 750 g. I our case, we get almost pure methane, and it takes about 1 kg of flour to produce 500 litres of it. Therefore we came to the conclusion that our biogas plant gives 250 g of methane per kg of feedstock. We haven't found much difference in different species of grain I wish to correct the figures of oilcake used and biogas generated. It takes daily about 30 kg oilcake to produce 15 cubic meters of gas. But this gas consists of almost pure methane. It is not a case of co-generation, but direct fermentation. Cattle dung was used only initially as a source of bacteria, but for more than a month, they are using only oilcake. I had never heard of the digestion accelerator, but would love to have it, if it is genuine. In any case, our biogas plant uses waste starch or sugar in any form. Thus spoilt bananas, oilcake of nonedible oilseed (e.g.castor or Jatropha), mango kernels, seed of practically any plant, rain damaged grain, etc. all work beautifully as feedstock. The material must be pulped or powdered. These substances are highly digestible and the methane production starts within a few hours after their introduction into the biogas plant. About 2 kg of dry matter in any of the above forms would yield about 500 g of pure methane in about 8 hours. This period can be halved by heating the biogas plant. Advantages The short retention time and the small feedstock quantity enabled us to reduce the size of the gas plant. Our biogas plants h
