Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Cars Burning Gas in the Drive for Power

2005-07-26 Thread John Morris
  This certainly agrees with my personal experience and analysis. In 
fact, I would go even further. My step-son bought a new 2004 Civic 
Hybrid in January 2004. The car is very nice. It comfortably seats 
four adults and the back seat is comfortable for my six-foot, 
165-pound frame. However, he has found that it gets between 30 and 40 
miles per gallon in his driving. That does not compare particularly 
favorably with the 35 to 45 my 1996 Civic gets (with over 200,000 
miles on it) which also comfortably seats 4 adults. We supported him 
spending the extra money to get it at the time, but I'm feeling 
differently now.
  I don't see the Honda Insight as particularly green either. It's a 
two seater that gets 70 miles per gallon (according to the hype, 
which gave the Civic Hybrid close to 50 mpg). That works out to 140 
person-miles per gallon at full capacity. As I mentioned, my 
five-seater 96 Civic really does get 40 mpg (with some tankfuls going 
as high as 50 mpg). That works out to about 200 person-miles per 
gallon at full capacity (with minor losses as a result of carrying 
that much weight). Even with only four people in the car, it gets 
better mileage than the fully loaded Insight. My wife and I almost 
never travel alone, so we just about always get better mileage (80 
mpg) than the Insight would get with a single driver.
  I think the hybrid concept has tremendous potential. In fact, I 
think it could go much further in performance and safety, _while_ 
getting better mileage, than current IC-only designs. Four 
independent electric motors would give full-time, fully independent 
four-wheel drive with no differentials to mess up the delivery of all 
(or most) of the power to the one wheel that has traction. 
Distributing the battery pack out to all four wheels would reduce 
electrical losses  and improve the weight distribution and thus 
safety of the car. Unfortunately, these first attempts are not going 
this route; they just tack an electric motor onto current designs. 
Given the wasteful nature of capitalism, I guess we will have to go 
through this phase to get to that place.


John

This article reports on the fact that most hybrids actually do not 
get much better mileage than standard cars. Manufacturers are using 
the electrical engines to improve performance rather than increase 
mileage; whereas improved mileage is the reason that these cars 
qualify for large tax credits.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/automobiles/17hybrid.html?ex=1279252800&en=ae427a90941e848d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&em 
c=rss


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[Biofuel] Hybrid Cars Burning Gas in the Drive for Power

2005-07-26 Thread Keith Addison
This article reports on the fact that most hybrids actually do not 
get much better mileage than standard cars. Manufacturers are using 
the electrical engines to improve performance rather than increase 
mileage; whereas improved mileage is the reason that these cars 
qualify for large tax credits.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/automobiles/17hybrid.html?ex=1279252 
800&en=ae427a90941e848d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&em 
c=rss

- New York Times
Hybrid Cars Burning Gas in the Drive for Power

By MATTHEW L. WALD

Published: July 17, 2005

WASHINGTON, July 16 - Mark Buford is happy with the Honda Accord 
hybrid that he bought six months ago, and he has already driven it 
13,000 miles. He was determined to buy a hybrid electric car, he 
said, and this one is clean, "green" and accelerates faster than the 
nonhybrid version. He just cannot count on it to save much gasoline.


Many people concerned with oil consumption, including President Bush 
and members of Congress, are pointing to hybrids - vehicles with 
electric motors as well as internal combustion engines - as a way to 
reduce fuel use and dependence on imported oil. The first ones to 
reach the market did that; the two-seat Honda Insight, introduced in 
December 1999, was rated at 70 miles per gallon, and it was followed 
by the five-seat Toyota Prius, also built for reduced fuel 
consumption. Those cars have no nonhybrid equivalents. Then came the 
Civic hybrid, designed to perform almost as well as the original, 
only using a lot less gasoline.


But the pendulum has swung. The 2005 Honda Accord hybrid gets about 
the same miles per gallon as the basic four-cylinder model, according 
to a review by Consumer Reports, a car-buyer's guide, and it saves 
only about two miles a gallon compared with the V-6 model on which it 
is based. Thanks to the hybrid technology, though, it accelerates 
better.


Hybrid technology, it seems, is being used in much the same way as 
earlier under-the-hood innovations that increased gasoline 
efficiency: to satisfy the American appetite for acceleration and 
bulk.


Despite the use of hybrids to achieve better performance with about 
the same fuel economy, consumers who buy the cars continue to get a 
tax credit that the Internal Revenue Service allows under a "clean 
fuels" program that does not take fuel savings into account.


And the image of hybrids as fuel-stingy workhorses persists. In a 
June 15 speech at an energy forum, Mr. Bush proposed a tax credit of 
up to $4,000 to "encourage people to make right choices in the 
marketplace that will make us less dependent on foreign sources of 
oil and to help improve our environment."


But some hybrids save hardly any fuel, energy efficiency advocates 
say. "The new ones are all being used for power," said Kateri 
Callahan, the president of the Alliance to Save Energy, a nonprofit 
advocacy group based here.


Hybrids should be encouraged, Ms. Callahan said, because their 
electric components some day could be useful in an all-electric car, 
perhaps running on a fuel cell. But she added that the government 
should be careful about which hybrids it subsidizes through tax 
benefits. Now, she said, the car companies are "building to the 
high-end market. They think people want performance."


The companies may have sized up their customers pretty well. Mr. 
Buford, for example, bought his Accord hybrid in January, a month 
after the model came out, replacing a 2001 Accord coupe.


Mr. Buford, a telecommunications analyst at Kraft Foods who works in 
the Chicago area, said he decided on a hybrid because he wanted to 
"go green," although he added, "I wasn't willing to make any of the 
trade-offs normally associated with a hybrid." He said he liked the 
way that the electric motor on his new car kicked in early during 
acceleration, at a speed range in which the V-6 gasoline engine is 
relatively weak. And its emissions of smog-forming pollutants are 
low, he said. (The Environmental Protection Agency puts the hybrid 
and nonhybrid Accords in the same emissions category).


If sold at list price, the hybrid costs about $3,300 more than the 
V-6 with no hybrid. Mr. Buford said he was not sure if the gas 
savings would ever pay for the difference. But in that price range - 
about $30,000 - many buyers are not looking for a car that is the 
cheapest to buy or to operate.


Mr. Buford said he expected that when he files his taxes next April, 
the purchase will cut his tax bill by about $600. The tax credit will 
begin to be phased out in 2006.


The Accord hybrid is not alone in using technology for power; the 
Toyota Highlander and the Lexus RX330, two premium vehicles, both 
gained horsepower when they were produced as hybrids. When Lexus 
created a hybrid version of the RX330 it kept the same 3.3-liter 
engine, but to get across the idea that the hybrid had as much power 
as a vehicle with a 4-liter engine it named it the RX400h.


In the Accord, the mechanism was simple