Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
Thankyou Marilyn, I'm glad to have that on file, and it in the list archives. All best Keith >On Jan. 22 Keith wrote: > >"I remember this bit well: "I have already said that I am not >involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States." That >was "the first post-9-11 interview with Osama bin Laden"? Fisk's >site says Ummat, Karachi, 28th September, 2001" > >and > >"I don't have a transcript, but it sure doesn't look much like the >Ummat interview. The Telegraph says there were four previous >videos after Sept 11, all denying involvement." > >For Keith and anyone else interested in the 9-11 pretext for war: > >If you want the full transcript of the Ummat interview in which he >denied being responsible for 9-11, it is found at the following: > >http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html > >In the interview Osama says: >"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September >attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid >telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I >consider the killing of innocent women, children and other >humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing >harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a >practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. " > >He adds: >" I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. >We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes >other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to >mortgage their political and economic freedom." > >He talks about why the US needs to create an enemy: >"Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require >billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the >government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big >problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that >the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed >an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and >Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush >Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where >will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same >agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their >importance." > >He also talks about what the US media is doing to its people: >"The Western media is unleashing such a baseless >propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is >in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of >this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause >harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in >modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it >against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the >psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means >that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media >is doing that." > >This interview was never made public in the US. Sorry to 2 >months late in responding, but I just found this. > >Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
On Jan. 22 Keith wrote: "I remember this bit well: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States." That was "the first post-9-11 interview with Osama bin Laden"? Fisk's site says Ummat, Karachi, 28th September, 2001" and "I don't have a transcript, but it sure doesn't look much like the Ummat interview. The Telegraph says there were four previous videos after Sept 11, all denying involvement." For Keith and anyone else interested in the 9-11 pretext for war: If you want the full transcript of the Ummat interview in which he denied being responsible for 9-11, it is found at the following: http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html In the interview Osama says: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. " He adds: " I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom." He talks about why the US needs to create an enemy: "Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance." He also talks about what the US media is doing to its people: "The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that." This interview was never made public in the US. Sorry to 2 months late in responding, but I just found this. Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
Howdy Keith, This BBC article about the same interview doesn't say "yes he did it". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1648572.stm "Bin Laden refused to say whether or not he was behind the US attacks, describing the targets as the American icons of military and economic power." If he already confessed in the November 2001 interview, why would this tape need to be "found" and released in December 2001?: The Fake bin Laden Video Tape http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html And even if he did take credit for the attack, it could just as well be to make himself and his buddies look more powerful than they were/are in order to recruit more suckers. What a mess. Keith wrote: >It's hard to believe just about any of the so-called facts about >9/11, from the official stuff all the way on down to "I know FOR A >FACT that the World Trade Center was hit by laser beams from a secret >US military space station..." What seems clear enough is that some >big jets hit some big buildings in the US and lots of people were >killed, and since then lots of smaller jets have hit lots of smaller >buildings in other parts of the world and lots more people have been >killed. Absolutely right. All that we really know is the physical evidence that we have witnessed ourselves. Here's a pretty good site along those lines: www.physics911.net Trouble arises when we let someone else slip in an unproven "fact" (such as "Al-Qaeda did it.") Then any discussion from that point on, no matter how logical, amounts to little more than "mental masturbation". Then again, as long as we believe something to be true, it may as well be true. We know from the CIA's behavior over the past decades that they are not concerned with the truth, but only the use of information for manipulating people. Just the fact that the CIA has endorsed the new "Bin Laden" tape suggests that they approve of the message it presents. So who actually made the tape becomes irrelevant; doubly so when we research the history of "Al-Qaeda". At the very least, the administration can point at the tape and say, "You see, the evil-doer's are listening so you better stop critisizing us, you are strengthening the enemy" and "You see, we need to spy on everyone in the US, because the evil-doer's are here and getting ready to attack!" The easiest way to deflate the Bush adminstration and strengthen their position would be for "Al-Qaeda" to say "We never made any attacks on American soil and we are not going to, we only want the US out of Muslim countries." But that will never happen because the "crazies" in the White House are the biggest recruiters for the wacko wahhabis. They both depend on each other. Two hands of the same body? People full of fear and hate are the easiest to control. BT A few good snips: http://www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/5051 Noam Chomsky, 'War on Terror' "The senior CIA analyst responsible for tracking Osama bin Laden from 1996, Michael Scheuer, writes that bin Laden has been precise in telling America the reasons he is waging war on us. None of the reasons have anything to do with our freedom, liberty, and democracy, but have everything to do with U.S. policies and actions in the Muslim world. Osamas concern is out to drastically alter U.S. and Western policies toward the Islamic world, Scheuer writes: He is a practical warrior, not an apocalyptic terrorist in search of Armageddon. As Osama constantly repeats, Al Qaeda supports no Islamic insurgency that seeks to conquer new lands. Preferring comforting illusions, Washington ignores the ideological power, lethality, and growth potential of the threat personified by Osama bin Laden, as well as the impetus that threat has been given by the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Muslim Iraq, [which is] icing on the cake for al Qaeda. U.S. forces and policies are completing the radicalization of the Islamic world, something Osama bin Laden has been trying to do with substantial but incomplete success since the early 1990s. As a result, [Scheuer adds,] it is fair to conclude that the United States of America remains bin Laden's only indispensable ally. " --- http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0006DFED.htm Does al-Qaeda exist? "Having given bin Laden and his henchmen a name, Western officials then proceeded to exaggerate their threat. 'In the quest to define the enemy, the US and its allies have helped to blow it out of proportion', wrote Dolnik and Kimberly McCloud of the Monterey Institute in 2002. They pointed out that after 1998, US officials began distributing posters and matchboxes featuring bin Laden's face and a reward for his capture around the Middle East and Central Asia - a process that 'transformed this little-known jihadist into a household name and, in some places, a symbol of heroic defiance' (5)." "How can we challenge the widespread but warped understanding of what 'al-Qaeda' is? Dolnik worries that it might be 'too late', but he
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
That's a good question. During the crusades, soldiers were dispersed over Europe and the middle East with essentially no method of communication. 500 B.C. China had battles consisting of 100,000 men or more and still, they were able to maintain their chain of command and execute sophisticated maneuvers. Both a movement and a military campaign can run on a simple set of objectives, leaving those involved to decide what to do. That said, I got nothin'. I have no answer to that question. Perhaps the two have merged, making each indistinguishable from the other. MikeChris lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is al-Qaida an organisation with a command structure and a mastermind who > givesorders that are obeyed? Or is it more like a movement, and Bin Laden its inspiration?
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
> Is al-Qaida an organisation with a command structure and a mastermind who > gives orders that are obeyed? Or is it more like a movement, and Bin Laden its inspiration? < A lot of experts think it's more a movement or people following an idea. Bin had his own army, weren't they called Taliban. Chris. http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0006DFED.htm Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
Hello BT >For comparison to the text in the new "Bin Laden" tape. >It doesn't sound like the same person. > >BT I remember this bit well: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States." That was "the first post-9-11 interview with Osama bin Laden"? Fisk's site says Ummat, Karachi, 28th September, 2001. The Telegraph talks of a video "shot in the Afghan mountains at the end of October": http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11 /wbin11.xml Bin Laden: Yes, I did it By David Bamber (Filed: 11/11/2001) I don't have a transcript, but it sure doesn't look much like the Ummat interview. The Telegraph says there were four previous videos after Sept 11, all denying involvement. Bin Laden says in the new tape: "The nights and days will not pass without us taking vengeance like on Sept. 11, God permitting." According to the AP translation. I don't know if that's an admission that he did it or not, the wording is ambiguous, you'd have to see the original Arabic. He doesn't seem to say much if anything directly, it's more like he lets you jump to conclusions if you want to. On the other hand he doesn't seem to deny it or disown it anymore. Is al-Qaida an organisation with a command structure and a mastermind who gives orders that are obeyed? Or is it more like a movement, and Bin Laden its inspiration? If so he can claim or disown anything he likes, more or less. I don't know whether it's a contradiction or not. Asking "who benefits" doesn't give you proof, only suspicion, perhaps justified. Dragging the Israelis into this mess could be just as distorting as leaving them out could be, and the same goes for the Saudis, and indeed for Bin Laden. Some fairly serious people say Bin Laden had nothing to do with it, same as Saddam Hussein also had nothing to do with it. It's hard to believe just about any of the so-called facts about 9/11, from the official stuff all the way on down to "I know FOR A FACT that the World Trade Center was hit by laser beams from a secret US military space station..." What seems clear enough is that some big jets hit some big buildings in the US and lots of people were killed, and since then lots of smaller jets have hit lots of smaller buildings in other parts of the world and lots more people have been killed. Best Keith > > >http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2006/01/osama-and-odd-israelis.html > >(linked below) >http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=287 >http://www.amnotes.net/doc_galloway_wtcp.html >http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm > >Tuesday, January 10, 2006 >Osama and the odd Israelis > >From the 'Conspiracy Theories' section of Aljazeera.com, an article entitled >"FBI evidence of Mossad involvement in September 11 attacks on the U.S.?!": > >"An article by reporter Jim Galloway, published on The Austin >American-Statesman >on Nov. 25, 2001, stated that the FBI had evidence suggesting that the Mossad, >the Israeli intelligence, along with some rogue American and foreign spy >agencies, may be deeply involved in or even entirely responsible for the Sept. >11 attacks as well as other acts of terrorism against the United States." > >The Galloway article doesn't actually go that far, but is carefully written so >you can draw your own conclusions about why the New Jersey moving industry is >such an attractive career prospect for recent Israeli military veterans (and >you might also wonder why the anthrax attacks were mailed from an area in New >Jersey near where an Israeli intelligence unit is allegedly stationed). The Al >Jazeera article goes on to discuss the first post-9-11 interview >with Osama bin >Laden, in which he unambiguously stated: > >"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the >United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no >knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, >children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly >forbids causing >harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice >is forbidden >even in the course of a battle." > >and: > >"The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these >attacks within >itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting >against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons >who want to >make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and >Christianity >so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive." > >and: > >"Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of >dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This >[funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet >Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They >needed an enemy. So, they first started pro
[Biofuel] More quotes from Bin Laden
For comparison to the text in the new "Bin Laden" tape. It doesn't sound like the same person. BT http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2006/01/osama-and-odd-israelis.html (linked below) http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=287 http://www.amnotes.net/doc_galloway_wtcp.html http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm Tuesday, January 10, 2006 Osama and the odd Israelis >From the 'Conspiracy Theories' section of Aljazeera.com, an article entitled "FBI evidence of Mossad involvement in September 11 attacks on the U.S.?!": "An article by reporter Jim Galloway, published on The Austin American-Statesman on Nov. 25, 2001, stated that the FBI had evidence suggesting that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence, along with some rogue American and foreign spy agencies, may be deeply involved in or even entirely responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks as well as other acts of terrorism against the United States." The Galloway article doesn't actually go that far, but is carefully written so you can draw your own conclusions about why the New Jersey moving industry is such an attractive career prospect for recent Israeli military veterans (and you might also wonder why the anthrax attacks were mailed from an area in New Jersey near where an Israeli intelligence unit is allegedly stationed). The Al Jazeera article goes on to discuss the first post-9-11 interview with Osama bin Laden, in which he unambiguously stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle." and: "The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive." and: "Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks." Anyone looking at the matter objectively has to reach much the same conclusion as the Al Jazeera article: "U.S. intelligence analysts believe that Israel benefited most from the September 11 attacks. Israel has been widely criticized by the West for its aggression against the Palestinians. Israeli occupation soldiers were, and still are, shown on international TV news in heated exchanges with Palestinian youths armed with nothing more than stones. Israeli tanks bulldoze Palestinian farms and homes, and human rights groups complain that Palestinian detainees are tortured and abused in Israeli jails. But after 9/11, things changed dramatically. Sympathy for the Palestinians vanished. The Arabs were universally portrayed as the 'bad guys.'" The beneficiaries of September 11 were the Bush Administration itself, the Pentagon and the military-industrial complex, various intelligence agencies, and Israel. With every day of Bush misrule we learn of more corruption and deception. Is it all that difficult to contemplate that the whole Official Story of 9-11 is just another lie? ___ Biofuel mailing list Bio
