Re: [Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Thanks Keith, You're welcome Mick. As it turns out, between posting this message and receiving your reply I did some thinking and came up with the same solution. I've washed this batch twice since and the PH is coming up slowly, currently about PH 6.5. Tap water here is about PH 7.6 so I estimate another two or three washes will do it, maybe. Lots of water unfortunately however I suppose it can't be avoided. Keep it for future washes? - 3rd wash water for the next 2nd wash etc. Not good considering Sydney is on level 3 water restrictions caused no doubt by the urban sprawl, drought conditions and infrastructure not keeping pace. I was thinking, is it possible to speed this process up and reduce the water used by using someting like Bi-carb Soda in the wash water to neutralise the acid further? Or would this complicate things? I really don't know, but are you trying to neutralise the acid or to get rid of it? Maybe it would be faster but maybe you might end up with some neutralised acid and some equally neutralised Bi-carb Soda both still in the fuel. But I don't know. I'd stick with the washing I guess, you should have enough time. I'm hoping I can manage to do the necessary washes and dry the fuel before I hit the road at the end of the week. Thanks again Keith for your advise, much appreciated. HIH Mick, hope it works out too, have a good trip. Best Keith Mick Hello Mick Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. If the pH is below 7 then you'll get a positive titration reading, but I don't see the point of titrating it. If you have converted biodiesel back to FFA it sure won't be much. The low-ish pH reading is much more likely to be due to residues of the acid you used in the wash quench. It can take quite a lot of qwashing to get it out. Keep on washing it until the pH returns to something near neutral (or the same as your wash water). My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? You're planning to neutralise the excess acid you used in the wash quench by re-processing the biodiesel? Overkill, just wash it some more, maybe quite a lot more. If that doesn't work then we can think again. Best Keith Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Thanks Keith, As it turns out, between posting this message and receiving your reply I did some thinking and came up with the same solution. I've washed this batch twice since and the PH is coming up slowly, currently about PH 6.5. Tap water here is about PH 7.6 so I estimate another two or three washes will do it, maybe. Lots of water unfortunately however I suppose it can't be avoided. Not good considering Sydney is on level 3 water restrictions caused no doubt by the urban sprawl, drought conditions and infrastructure not keeping pace. I was thinking, is it possible to speed this process up and reduce the water used by using someting like Bi-carb Soda in the wash water to neutralise the acid further? Or would this complicate things? I'm hoping I can manage to do the necessary washes and dry the fuel before I hit the road at the end of the week. Thanks again Keith for your advise, much appreciated. Mick Hello Mick Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. If the pH is below 7 then you'll get a positive titration reading, but I don't see the point of titrating it. If you have converted biodiesel back to FFA it sure won't be much. The low-ish pH reading is much more likely to be due to residues of the acid you used in the wash quench. It can take quite a lot of qwashing to get it out. Keep on washing it until the pH returns to something near neutral (or the same as your wash water). My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? You're planning to neutralise the excess acid you used in the wash quench by re-processing the biodiesel? Overkill, just wash it some more, maybe quite a lot more. If that doesn't work then we can think again. Best Keith Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Hello Mick Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. If the pH is below 7 then you'll get a positive titration reading, but I don't see the point of titrating it. If you have converted biodiesel back to FFA it sure won't be much. The low-ish pH reading is much more likely to be due to residues of the acid you used in the wash quench. It can take quite a lot of qwashing to get it out. Keep on washing it until the pH returns to something near neutral (or the same as your wash water). My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? You're planning to neutralise the excess acid you used in the wash quench by re-processing the biodiesel? Overkill, just wash it some more, maybe quite a lot more. If that doesn't work then we can think again. Best Keith Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
