Re: [Biofuel] Top scientists say man may need to dirty skies to shield against warming - CP Wire - 2006.11.16
That's dumb. --- Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And now from the "if your toe hurts, fix it by > smashing your thumb with > a hammer" department ... Darryl > = > Byline: BY CHARLES J. HANLEY > The ``shade'' would be a layer of pollution > deliberately spewed into the atmosphere to help cool > the planet. This over-the-top idea comes from > prominent scientists, among them a Nobel laureate. > The reaction here at the UN conference on climate > change is a mix of caution, curiosity and some > resignation to such ``massive and drastic'' > operations, > as the chief UN climatologist describes them. > The Nobel Prize-winning scientist who first made the > proposal is himself ``not enthusiastic about it.'' > ``It was meant to startle the policy makers,'' said > Paul > Crutzen, of Germany's Max Planck Institute for > Chemistry. ``If they don't take action much more > strongly than they have in the past, then in the end > we > have to do experiments like this.'' > Serious people are taking Crutzen's idea seriously. > This weekend, NASA's Ames Research Center in > Moffett Field, Calif., hosts a closed-door, > high-level > workshop on the global haze proposal and other > ``geoengineering'' ideas for fending off climate > change. > In Nairobi, meanwhile, hundreds of delegates were > wrapping up a two-week conference expected to only > slowly advance efforts to rein in greenhouse gases > blamed for much of the half-degree Celsius rise in > global temperatures in the past century. > The 1997 Kyoto Protocol requires modest emission > cutbacks by industrial countries, but not the United > States, the biggest emitter of carbon dioxide and > other heat-trapping gases, because it rejected the > deal. > Talks on what to do after Kyoto expires in 2012 are > all but bogged down. > When he published his proposal in the journal > Climatic Change in August, Crutzen cited a ``grossly > disappointing international political response'' to > warming. > The Dutch climatologist, awarded a 1995 Nobel in > chemistry for his work uncovering the threat to > Earth's atmospheric ozone layer, suggested that > balloons bearing heavy guns be used to carry > sulphates high aloft and fire them into the > stratosphere. > While carbon dioxide keeps heat from escaping > Earth, substances such as sulphur dioxide, a common > air pollutant, reflect solar radiation, helping cool > the > planet. > Tom Wigley, a senior U.S. government climatologist, > followed Crutzen's article with a paper of his own > on > Oct. 20 in the leading U.S. journal Science. Like > Crutzen, Wigley cited the precedent of the huge > volcanic eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the > Philippines in 1991. > Pinatubo shot so much sulfurous debris into the > stratosphere that it is believed it cooled the Earth > by > 0.5 degrees C for about a year. > Wigley ran scenarios of stratospheric sulphate > injection, on the scale of Pinatubo's estimated nine > million tonnes of sulphur, through supercomputer > models of the climate, and reported that Crutzen's > idea would, indeed, seem to work. Even half that > amount per year would help, he wrote. > A massive dissemination of pollutants would be > needed every year or two, as the sulphates > precipitate > from the atmosphere in acid rain. > Wigley said a temporary shield would give political > leaders more time to reduce human dependence on > fossil fuels, the main source of greenhouse gases. > He > said experts must more closely study the feasibility > of > the idea and its possible effects on stratospheric > chemistry. > Nairobi conference participants agreed. > ``Yes, by all means, do all the research,'' Indian > climatologist Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the > 2,000-scientist UN network on climate change, told > The Associated Press. > But ``if human beings take it upon themselves to > carry out something as massive and drastic as this, > we need to be absolutely sure there are no side > effects,'' Pachauri said. > Philip Clapp, a veteran campaigner for emissions > controls to curb warming, also sounded a nervous > note, saying, ``We are already engaged in an > uncontrolled experiment by injecting greenhouse > gases into the atmosphere.'' > But Clapp, president of the U.S. group National > Environmental Trust, said, ``I certainly don't > disagree > with the urgency.'' > In past years scientists have scoffed at the idea of > air > pollution as a solution for global warming, saying > that the kind of sulphate haze that would be needed > is > deadly to people. Last month, the World Heath > Organization said air pollution kills about two > million > people worldwide each year and that reducing large > soot-like particles from sulfates in cities could > save > 300,000 lives annually. > American geophysicist Jonathan Pershing, of > Washington's World Resources Institute, is among > those wary of unforeseen consequences, but said the > idea might be worth considering ``if down the road > 25 years,
Re: [Biofuel] Top scientists say man may need to dirty skies to shield against warming - CP Wire - 2006.11.16
The powers that be want the human race to be regurgitated from Earth as soon as possible. On 12/29/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There has been some experimentation with white roofs in the American south > and they make a useful contribution to reducing the need for air > conditioning. > I found several internet sites which discussed this from a search a couple > of years ago. > > Black asphalt roads are useful in clearing the ice from roads in winter. > > Some time ago, white painted cars were more vulnerable to rust. I don't > know if it is still the case. They provide poor contrast in winter. > Something that stands out better is safer. > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario > > > > If all new and replaced roofs were white how much would that do? > > What if highways were white? > > What if the cars on them and so on. > > Kirk > > > [snip] > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Top scientists say man may need to dirty skies to shield against warming - CP Wire - 2006.11.16
There has been some experimentation with white roofs in the American south and they make a useful contribution to reducing the need for air conditioning. I found several internet sites which discussed this from a search a couple of years ago. Black asphalt roads are useful in clearing the ice from roads in winter. Some time ago, white painted cars were more vulnerable to rust. I don't know if it is still the case. They provide poor contrast in winter. Something that stands out better is safer. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario > If all new and replaced roofs were white how much would that do? > What if highways were white? > What if the cars on them and so on. > Kirk > [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Top scientists say man may need to dirty skies to shield against warming - CP Wire - 2006.11.16
If all new and replaced roofs were white how much would that do? What if highways were white? What if the cars on them and so on. Kirk Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And now from the "if your toe hurts, fix it by smashing your thumb with a hammer" department ... Darryl = Byline: BY CHARLES J. HANLEY The ``shade'' would be a layer of pollution deliberately spewed into the atmosphere to help cool the planet. This over-the-top idea comes from prominent scientists, among them a Nobel laureate. The reaction here at the UN conference on climate change is a mix of caution, curiosity and some resignation to such ``massive and drastic'' operations, as the chief UN climatologist describes them. The Nobel Prize-winning scientist who first made the proposal is himself ``not enthusiastic about it.'' ``It was meant to startle the policy makers,'' said Paul Crutzen, of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Chemistry. ``If they don't take action much more strongly than they have in the past, then in the end we have to do experiments like this.'' Serious people are taking Crutzen's idea seriously. This weekend, NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., hosts a closed-door, high-level workshop on the global haze proposal and other ``geoengineering'' ideas for fending off climate change. In Nairobi, meanwhile, hundreds of delegates were wrapping up a two-week conference expected to only slowly advance efforts to rein in greenhouse gases blamed for much of the half-degree Celsius rise in global temperatures in the past century. The 1997 Kyoto Protocol requires modest emission cutbacks by industrial countries, but not the United States, the biggest emitter of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases, because it rejected the deal. Talks on what to do after Kyoto expires in 2012 are all but bogged down. When he published his proposal in the journal Climatic Change in August, Crutzen cited a ``grossly disappointing international political response'' to warming. The Dutch climatologist, awarded a 1995 Nobel in chemistry for his work uncovering the threat to Earth's atmospheric ozone layer, suggested that balloons bearing heavy guns be used to carry sulphates high aloft and fire them into the stratosphere. While carbon dioxide keeps heat from escaping Earth, substances such as sulphur dioxide, a common air pollutant, reflect solar radiation, helping cool the planet. Tom Wigley, a senior U.S. government climatologist, followed Crutzen's article with a paper of his own on Oct. 20 in the leading U.S. journal Science. Like Crutzen, Wigley cited the precedent of the huge volcanic eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991. Pinatubo shot so much sulfurous debris into the stratosphere that it is believed it cooled the Earth by 0.5 degrees C for about a year. Wigley ran scenarios of stratospheric sulphate injection, on the scale of Pinatubo's estimated nine million tonnes of sulphur, through supercomputer models of the climate, and reported that Crutzen's idea would, indeed, seem to work. Even half that amount per year would help, he wrote. A massive dissemination of pollutants would be needed every year or two, as the sulphates precipitate from the atmosphere in acid rain. Wigley said a temporary shield would give political leaders more time to reduce human dependence on fossil fuels, the main source of greenhouse gases. He said experts must more closely study the feasibility of the idea and its possible effects on stratospheric chemistry. Nairobi conference participants agreed. ``Yes, by all means, do all the research,'' Indian climatologist Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the 2,000-scientist UN network on climate change, told The Associated Press. But ``if human beings take it upon themselves to carry out something as massive and drastic as this, we need to be absolutely sure there are no side effects,'' Pachauri said. Philip Clapp, a veteran campaigner for emissions controls to curb warming, also sounded a nervous note, saying, ``We are already engaged in an uncontrolled experiment by injecting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.'' But Clapp, president of the U.S. group National Environmental Trust, said, ``I certainly don't disagree with the urgency.'' In past years scientists have scoffed at the idea of air pollution as a solution for global warming, saying that the kind of sulphate haze that would be needed is deadly to people. Last month, the World Heath Organization said air pollution kills about two million people worldwide each year and that reducing large soot-like particles from sulfates in cities could save 300,000 lives annually. American geophysicist Jonathan Pershing, of Washington's World Resources Institute, is among those wary of unforeseen consequences, but said the idea might be worth considering ``if down the road 25 years, it becomes more and more severe because we didn't deal with the problem.'' By telephone from Germany, Crutzen said that
[Biofuel] Top scientists say man may need to dirty skies to shield against warming - CP Wire - 2006.11.16
And now from the "if your toe hurts, fix it by smashing your thumb with a hammer" department ... Darryl = Byline: BY CHARLES J. HANLEY The ``shade'' would be a layer of pollution deliberately spewed into the atmosphere to help cool the planet. This over-the-top idea comes from prominent scientists, among them a Nobel laureate. The reaction here at the UN conference on climate change is a mix of caution, curiosity and some resignation to such ``massive and drastic'' operations, as the chief UN climatologist describes them. The Nobel Prize-winning scientist who first made the proposal is himself ``not enthusiastic about it.'' ``It was meant to startle the policy makers,'' said Paul Crutzen, of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Chemistry. ``If they don't take action much more strongly than they have in the past, then in the end we have to do experiments like this.'' Serious people are taking Crutzen's idea seriously. This weekend, NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., hosts a closed-door, high-level workshop on the global haze proposal and other ``geoengineering'' ideas for fending off climate change. In Nairobi, meanwhile, hundreds of delegates were wrapping up a two-week conference expected to only slowly advance efforts to rein in greenhouse gases blamed for much of the half-degree Celsius rise in global temperatures in the past century. The 1997 Kyoto Protocol requires modest emission cutbacks by industrial countries, but not the United States, the biggest emitter of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases, because it rejected the deal. Talks on what to do after Kyoto expires in 2012 are all but bogged down. When he published his proposal in the journal Climatic Change in August, Crutzen cited a ``grossly disappointing international political response'' to warming. The Dutch climatologist, awarded a 1995 Nobel in chemistry for his work uncovering the threat to Earth's atmospheric ozone layer, suggested that balloons bearing heavy guns be used to carry sulphates high aloft and fire them into the stratosphere. While carbon dioxide keeps heat from escaping Earth, substances such as sulphur dioxide, a common air pollutant, reflect solar radiation, helping cool the planet. Tom Wigley, a senior U.S. government climatologist, followed Crutzen's article with a paper of his own on Oct. 20 in the leading U.S. journal Science. Like Crutzen, Wigley cited the precedent of the huge volcanic eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991. Pinatubo shot so much sulfurous debris into the stratosphere that it is believed it cooled the Earth by 0.5 degrees C for about a year. Wigley ran scenarios of stratospheric sulphate injection, on the scale of Pinatubo's estimated nine million tonnes of sulphur, through supercomputer models of the climate, and reported that Crutzen's idea would, indeed, seem to work. Even half that amount per year would help, he wrote. A massive dissemination of pollutants would be needed every year or two, as the sulphates precipitate from the atmosphere in acid rain. Wigley said a temporary shield would give political leaders more time to reduce human dependence on fossil fuels, the main source of greenhouse gases. He said experts must more closely study the feasibility of the idea and its possible effects on stratospheric chemistry. Nairobi conference participants agreed. ``Yes, by all means, do all the research,'' Indian climatologist Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the 2,000-scientist UN network on climate change, told The Associated Press. But ``if human beings take it upon themselves to carry out something as massive and drastic as this, we need to be absolutely sure there are no side effects,'' Pachauri said. Philip Clapp, a veteran campaigner for emissions controls to curb warming, also sounded a nervous note, saying, ``We are already engaged in an uncontrolled experiment by injecting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.'' But Clapp, president of the U.S. group National Environmental Trust, said, ``I certainly don't disagree with the urgency.'' In past years scientists have scoffed at the idea of air pollution as a solution for global warming, saying that the kind of sulphate haze that would be needed is deadly to people. Last month, the World Heath Organization said air pollution kills about two million people worldwide each year and that reducing large soot-like particles from sulfates in cities could save 300,000 lives annually. American geophysicist Jonathan Pershing, of Washington's World Resources Institute, is among those wary of unforeseen consequences, but said the idea might be worth considering ``if down the road 25 years, it becomes more and more severe because we didn't deal with the problem.'' By telephone from Germany, Crutzen said that's what he envisioned: global haze as a component for long-range planning. ``The reception on the whole is more positive than I thought,'' he said. Pershing added, however, that reaction
