[biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Hi mark, as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not state of the art. We were talking one time about that and decied not to follow the theme (also it seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). If you find something new to that theme let me know. To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol are more easier - from wood or as by-product from making alcohol, ... . daniel girl_mark_fire schrieb: This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Mit freundlichen Gr§en Daniel West __ Zentrum fr Sonnenenergie- und Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW) Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG) Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research Renewable Fuels and Processes Netzwerk Regenerative Kraftstoffe - ReFuelNet Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West Industriestr. 6, D-70565 Stuttgart Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200 eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zsw-bw.de http://www.refuelnet.de __ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe,
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Before the catalytic reaction process, methanol was made from the destructive distillation of wood, or making charcoal and distillation / condensing of the gasses given off in the process. A very time consuming and un-efficient process, I think that it was on the order of 1 gal of mixed liquid ( mostly methanol ) for every 100 lbs. of wood, and cost about $10.00 a gal. ( before the catalytic process ) when reasonably pure. The catalytic process is doable on the village level, but, is still expensive compared to the large scale production. I was checking into this when I first joined the list, and there was a book that I had some information from (about a farmer that made a farm scale plant ) that I mentioned, it should be in the list archives. Greg H. - Original Message - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 00:14 Subject: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Once upon a time it was created with CH4 + O and a chromium or copper catalyst. High pressure and temperatures were needed, that's why even the big plants use syngas now. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Daniel West wrote: Hi mark, as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not state of the art. We were talking one time about that and decied not to follow the theme (also it seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). If you find something new to that theme let me know. To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol are more easier - from wood or as by-product from making alcohol, ... . daniel girl_mark_fire schrieb: This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
