Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility
Hello Todd, et al., Assume redundant equipment consisting of: 4000 US gal stainless steel tanks dedicated hoses 1 Horizontal decanter, for solids (winery surplus) 1 Vertical centrifuge, for water (again winery surplus very adjustable) dedicated 2 Yamata PD pump Seel drums up the ying yang (read, we now pay to have them hauled away) 1 large vacuum gravity filter 1 large plate and frame filter 1 plate and frame heat exchanger various fittings and such The tanks we no longer use due to OSHA Confined space rules (cleanings a bi^h) wouldn't think you'd have to clean them for WVO... All this equipment is, as I mentioned, redundant. We used to have two facilities, but have consolidated. I have the warehouse space, the manpower, and can't imagine that the learning curve would be too steep. Potential problems include: Waste stream issues plant sanitation potential mess outside the facility due to spills ( a HUGE issue...) Manpower to deal with loading/unloading etc. I think the biggest challenge is the community/social acceptance, and getting critical mass to get the thing off the ground. As a Company, we donate a portion of our profits to what we consider just causes. I feel this is a more direct approach. My partners are not opposed to it, in principal, but we all have some hesitation regarding the human factor. Users would have to play by some pretty strict sanitation and scheduling rules, and not dump useless crap WVO on us. As we would technically only be selling a service, I can't see where any Govt agency other than our normal State and Fed health and Organic Cert folks would need to be involved. The key, I think, is critical mass... I don't know how sucessful we could be trying to impose some order on an otherwise totally chaotic system. I could be barking up the wrong tree I do filter and de-water my own (sorta, plant waste) WVO for the conversion I'm doing next weekend. So I have a commitment on a personal level. Thanks for the feedback, Mark --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, If you have equipment that is 80% under utilized, it would be a wise decision to put it into use in an area that would exceed it's production capacity. You may lose some of the equipment's food grade status. But that shouldn't matter from a monetary perspective as long as it's generating revenue. I would think that you would want to inventory the available equipment, ask someone to assess it's usefulness in biodiesel making and then evaluate what other costs would be incurred to incorporate it and acquire any missing components to complete a biodiesel process. It's not all grins and giggles when you get up to a scale that you seem to be alluding to. You will end up building an entire infrastructure around the equipment at hand in order to accomplish the feat. But at least you're already a leg up on most if you have idle tanks, pumps, plumbing, heat exchangers, agitators or anything else. If you had an inventory list it would be a relative snap to indicate to you how close or how far away you are from a complete biodiesel process. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility Hello all, The problems associated with small scale use of WVO and it's inconsistant quality may be mitigated by a model I have been considering. I work for a Natural Foods company that handles a good deal of vegie oils. I have all the equipment necessesary to filter and de-water WVO. Our equipment utilization is on the order of 20%. We have some fairly sophisticated equipment used in falvoring various oils with organic herbs and spices. Lots of water, lots of solids. Is there any demand for a regional, most likely co-op, WVO processing facility? Assume we run at cost plus 10-15%, and could process 1500-2000 US gal per 8 hr shift. Is there sufiicent demand to run 1-2 days a week? Is the community developed enough to deliver to the plant and exchange WVO for filtered, water free WVO? Assume a major metro area, such as the San Francisco Bay Area. Is ther the demand? Or, is the use of WVO by individuals, by it's very nature, opposed to or unable to support this type of collection/distribution system? I would assume it would be an oil in/oil out less production loss type of deal. I have drums, carboys, totes, pails etc. that could be used on a deposit basis. Just testing the ahem waters here. Thoughts? Mark __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more
Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility
Hello all, The problems associated with small scale use of WVO and it's inconsistant quality may be mitigated by a model I have been considering. I work for a Natural Foods company that handles a good deal of vegie oils. I have all the equipment necessesary to filter and de-water WVO. Our equipment utilization is on the order of 20%. We have some fairly sophisticated equipment used in falvoring various oils with organic herbs and spices. Lots of water, lots of solids. Is there any demand for a regional, most likely co-op, WVO processing facility? Assume we run at cost plus 10-15%, and could process 1500-2000 US gal per 8 hr shift. Is there sufiicent demand to run 1-2 days a week? Is the community developed enough to deliver to the plant and exchange WVO for filtered, water free WVO? Assume a major metro area, such as the San Francisco Bay Area. Is ther the demand? Or, is the use of WVO by individuals, by it's very nature, opposed to or unable to support this type of collection/distribution system? I would assume it would be an oil in/oil out less production loss type of deal. I have drums, carboys, totes, pails etc. that could be used on a deposit basis. Just testing the ahem waters here. Thoughts? Mark --- Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, and then run it through a water separator filter or two on its way to the engine, if you want to do a more thorough job. Our G3 SVO Max kit uses this approach ...gravity settle only, followed by a trip through a heated filter with two stage filtration and water separation. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Appal Energy wrote: Brent, 100*C is the boiling point for water. To get rid of water by the boiling method not only do you have to expend massive amounts of energy, but the water wil inevitably atomize and stay mixed with oil to some degree, even if you boil the beejeebers out of it. Your best bet is to heat the oil to ~130*F (55*C) and let the water settle out. No point in wasting time, energy or creating problems. Just be sure the settling period is sufficient. The deeper the oil resevoir the longer the settling time. (55 gallon drum, maybe 24-36 hours. 1,000 gallon tank, maybe 48-72 hours.) Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: [biofuel] dewatering WVO I read the information on dewatering the WVO, but when I was heating the oil I noticed that when it was taken off the heat and poured off, that there was water settled on the bottom. Can this be a way to dewater more quickly? Just heat the oil to 100 deg. C and then pour the oil off the top? Will water remain suspended in the oil? Brent Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ / __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility
Great idea, but it would only work where there are enough people making diesel to justify the cost and time. These people would also not want to dewater and filter their own oil. Where I live, I am the only one I know that has even attempted to make diesel. In a metro area there might be more of a demand for such a service. Brent From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, The problems associated with small scale use of WVO and it's inconsistant quality may be mitigated by a model I have been considering. I work for a Natural Foods company that handles a good deal of vegie oils. I have all the equipment necessesary to filter and de-water WVO. Our equipment utilization is on the order of 20%. We have some fairly sophisticated equipment used in falvoring various oils with organic herbs and spices. Lots of water, lots of solids. Is there any demand for a regional, most likely co-op, WVO processing facility? Assume we run at cost plus 10-15%, and could process 1500-2000 US gal per 8 hr shift. Is there sufiicent demand to run 1-2 days a week? Is the community developed enough to deliver to the plant and exchange WVO for filtered, water free WVO? Assume a major metro area, such as the San Francisco Bay Area. Is ther the demand? Or, is the use of WVO by individuals, by it's very nature, opposed to or unable to support this type of collection/distribution system? I would assume it would be an oil in/oil out less production loss type of deal. I have drums, carboys, totes, pails etc. that could be used on a deposit basis. Just testing the ahem waters here. Thoughts? Mark --- Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, and then run it through a water separator filter or two on its way to the engine, if you want to do a more thorough job. Our G3 SVO Max kit uses this approach ...gravity settle only, followed by a trip through a heated filter with two stage filtration and water separation. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Appal Energy wrote: Brent, 100*C is the boiling point for water. To get rid of water by the boiling method not only do you have to expend massive amounts of energy, but the water wil inevitably atomize and stay mixed with oil to some degree, even if you boil the beejeebers out of it. Your best bet is to heat the oil to ~130*F (55*C) and let the water settle out. No point in wasting time, energy or creating problems. Just be sure the settling period is sufficient. The deeper the oil resevoir the longer the settling time. (55 gallon drum, maybe 24-36 hours. 1,000 gallon tank, maybe 48-72 hours.) Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: [biofuel] dewatering WVO I read the information on dewatering the WVO, but when I was heating the oil I noticed that when it was taken off the heat and poured off, that there was water settled on the bottom. Can this be a way to dewater more quickly? Just heat the oil to 100 deg. C and then pour the oil off the top? Will water remain suspended in the oil? Brent Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ / __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility
Mark, If you have equipment that is 80% under utilized, it would be a wise decision to put it into use in an area that would exceed it's production capacity. You may lose some of the equipment's food grade status. But that shouldn't matter from a monetary perspective as long as it's generating revenue. I would think that you would want to inventory the available equipment, ask someone to assess it's usefulness in biodiesel making and then evaluate what other costs would be incurred to incorporate it and acquire any missing components to complete a biodiesel process. It's not all grins and giggles when you get up to a scale that you seem to be alluding to. You will end up building an entire infrastructure around the equipment at hand in order to accomplish the feat. But at least you're already a leg up on most if you have idle tanks, pumps, plumbing, heat exchangers, agitators or anything else. If you had an inventory list it would be a relative snap to indicate to you how close or how far away you are from a complete biodiesel process. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility Hello all, The problems associated with small scale use of WVO and it's inconsistant quality may be mitigated by a model I have been considering. I work for a Natural Foods company that handles a good deal of vegie oils. I have all the equipment necessesary to filter and de-water WVO. Our equipment utilization is on the order of 20%. We have some fairly sophisticated equipment used in falvoring various oils with organic herbs and spices. Lots of water, lots of solids. Is there any demand for a regional, most likely co-op, WVO processing facility? Assume we run at cost plus 10-15%, and could process 1500-2000 US gal per 8 hr shift. Is there sufiicent demand to run 1-2 days a week? Is the community developed enough to deliver to the plant and exchange WVO for filtered, water free WVO? Assume a major metro area, such as the San Francisco Bay Area. Is ther the demand? Or, is the use of WVO by individuals, by it's very nature, opposed to or unable to support this type of collection/distribution system? I would assume it would be an oil in/oil out less production loss type of deal. I have drums, carboys, totes, pails etc. that could be used on a deposit basis. Just testing the ahem waters here. Thoughts? Mark --- Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, and then run it through a water separator filter or two on its way to the engine, if you want to do a more thorough job. Our G3 SVO Max kit uses this approach ...gravity settle only, followed by a trip through a heated filter with two stage filtration and water separation. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Appal Energy wrote: Brent, 100*C is the boiling point for water. To get rid of water by the boiling method not only do you have to expend massive amounts of energy, but the water wil inevitably atomize and stay mixed with oil to some degree, even if you boil the beejeebers out of it. Your best bet is to heat the oil to ~130*F (55*C) and let the water settle out. No point in wasting time, energy or creating problems. Just be sure the settling period is sufficient. The deeper the oil resevoir the longer the settling time. (55 gallon drum, maybe 24-36 hours. 1,000 gallon tank, maybe 48-72 hours.) Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: [biofuel] dewatering WVO I read the information on dewatering the WVO, but when I was heating the oil I noticed that when it was taken off the heat and poured off, that there was water settled on the bottom. Can this be a way to dewater more quickly? Just heat the oil to 100 deg. C and then pour the oil off the top? Will water remain suspended in the oil? Brent Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ / __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email
