Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil source. I have seen several references to it but haven't investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply some links? There are lots of them in the archives, here for instance: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050207/005661.html [Biofuel] New method for the production of home made bio-diesel Links, plus this: William Smith Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:53:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [Biodiesel] Re: How do u get biodiesel from algae? If I remember right, in the open air studies they found that it was impossible to use the engineered algae, as it was unable to cope with naturally occurring strains which would take over the lagoons. The extraction and processing is somewhat akin to solvent extraction of low oil seeds, normally using hexane. This process is rather involved and requires massive amounts of solvent control and safety equipment. Will It's still pie in the sky - from a previous message: We've often seen people showing interest in algae, for the last five years and more, attracted by all the good things said about algae - richer source, much higher yields, multi-purpose, doesn't need agricultural land, etc etc - and not just showing interest but setting out to do it, building ponds and so on. But we haven't yet heard of any results, nor even why these people apparently give up. One list member researched it thoroughly several years ago, with the help of his wife, who had professional expertise, and he concluded it just wasn't there yet, at least not for backyard DIYers, nor even for small-scale operations. A bit like the enzyme processes perhaps, and supercritical methanol and so on - it works in labs or in theory and that's it, so far. The message at the url above was a response to a list member a couple of months ago who was determined to use algae, we haven't heard from him since either. Best wishes Keith Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Stephan, I think you have to honestly ask what agriculture and/or native flora and fauna on the islands would be displaced by instituting palm mono-culture for liquid fuel production. A safe bet is that many Hawaiians feel that their limitted acreage might be better served in ways other than usurping it for fuel production. This doesn't mean that farming for fuel has to be dropped as part of a solution. But the degree/severity of that option is possibly problematic due oddly enough to the unique environment - not that all environments aren't unique. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "stephan torak" To: Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices > Hello Robert, and all > Living in Hawaii, I wish gas was THAT cheap.. we are currently paying > almostt $3 per gallon for #2 diesel, and that's rising by the minute. > So...like the responsible guy I'm trying to be I wrote to all the > newspapers about oil palms (which would do well here), about 630 gal of > oil per acre per year.what an opportunity for biodiesel, thus making > Hawaii at least partly independent from the Oil companies and the shipping > companies. > But you know what, nobody came to investigate further, no lawmaker wants > to go on the internet to see for themselves, it seems. > > The only thing I am worried I'll accomplish is some lawmaker here trying > to make homebiodiesel making ILLEGAL (Have to have insurance, > environmental impact study, Hawaii with its ocean and reefs etc, can't > have people messing around with dangerous chemicals here.) In Maui they > are making BD but on the Big Island where they are wondering what to do > with the land of the former sugar plantations and where they are > complaining about the absence of an energy master plan for the islands... > no interest. 1 acre of oil palms = powering 1 small diesel car forever > Period..(I guess that's why you called it Journey To Forever) > There are a bunch of BD makers here and SVO users, but they are all > keeping a pretty low profile, and I'm beginning to see, why. > > Well I'm hoping for a more upbeat message for next time, and maybe some of > the local guys could contact me to talk about where we are heading. > Greetings, Stephan (808 959 3528) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
source. I have seen several references to it but haven't investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply some links? Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil source. I have seen several references to it but haven't investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply some links? Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, uses 5.4 times more than its fair share of the world's energy, the EU 2.6 times its share, Germany 2.6 times its share, France 2.8 times its share, Japan 2.7 times its share, Australia 3.8 times its share. "India uses one-fifth of its fair share, Sudan less than one-fifth its share, Nepal less than one-fifth its share. "The average American uses twice as much energy as the average European or Japanese and 155 times as much as the average Nepalese. "In terms of production, Americans produce more per head than Europeans and about the same as Japanese, but they use twice as much energy as the Japanese to do it." From: World energy use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse As I said, it's mostly waste. Have a look at some of Hakan's previous posts about building efficiency for instance. Average fuel consumption of US vehicles is higher now than it was 20 years ago. Etc etc. Nothing about this is sustainable, especially perhaps the inequity of it, military adventurism in pursuit of commandeering world energy supplies notwithstanding. This is simply the wrong question: "How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation?" Here are some better answers to better questions: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming As we so often say here, merely substituting biofuels for fossil fuel use is not nearly enough, a rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, with all ready-to-use renewable technologies used in combination as local conditions demand. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hello Keith, I've been doing a bit of research on microalgae production for energy and found there is some research going on around the world in various places. The NREL's 'Aquatic Species Program' research closed in the mid 1990's due, among other things, to pressure for DOE funding and the decision to focus their research budgets on ethanol production. Also in the 1990's the Japanese took the idea on in a big way, spending more than $250 million on research into hi-tec bioreactors with optical fiber devices etc but found they were too expensive to be economical. I believe research is continuing there but on a smaller scale; China and Israel are also leaders in applied phycology and have done work on biofuels from algae. Michael Briggs, of UNH, and his team are currently focusing on enclosed systems where the algae will process wastewater too. John Benemann, who was involved in the NREL research, is now an independent consultant and heading up an international network who are researching into it: their website gives a good overview http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/Biofixation.htm . http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/documents/01roadmp.pdf Other links... NREL research http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/34796.pdf http://govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2004/915/9150010.pdf Further studies http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/pdf/algae_salton_sea.pdf http://europa.eu.int/comm/research/energy/pdf/36_qingyu_wu_en.pdf Discussion forum exchanges http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=932606061&r=932606061#932606061 http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3153. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3414&whichpage=1 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oil_from_algae/ Algal biodiesel plant planned for California?? (I don't know anything more about it) http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring02/biodiesel.htm US Company making algal biodiesel from power station gases http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm I find the last link particularly interesting. My only problem with it - and with John Benemann's network - is the idea of putting CO2 from coal power stations into algae. All that fossil carbon still ends up in the atmosphere eventually: we need to focus on ways of locking it up permanently. Also, as an alternative to algae, a lot of research is being done on biomass-to-liquid technology which could turn trees into a very pure diesel fuel with fewer pollutants than biodiesel and one that can be used 100% in all diesel cars without adjustment. Do you think such technology might be preferable? Could it be used to encourage more forests to be planted around the world and managed in a semi-natural way for the benefit of the environment? Finally, does such gasification allow carbon capture and sequestration, making it carbon negative? I've gone off-subject a bit: perhaps this is something for a new discussion stream but I'd be interested to have others' thoughts. Craig Jamieson. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 12 April 2005 20:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hello John >>>Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil >>>source. I have seen several references to it but haven't >>>investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land >>>not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply >>>some links? > >Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. > >http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, uses 5.4 times more than its fair share of the world's energy, the EU 2.6 times its share, Germany 2.6 times its share, France 2.8 times its share, Japan 2.7 times its share, Australia 3.8 times its share. "India uses one-fifth of its fair share, Sudan less than one-fifth its share, Nepal less than one-fifth
Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hello John Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. Mike has made some coy references at tdiclub that suggest that a commercial venture may be in the works, but yes, the silence is rather deafening, isn't it. Here's an interesting 3rd party financial analysis of Mike's algae paper. Well, it's interesting for us 'Merkins, anyway. :) http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/biodiesel.html jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hey Keith, I did some reading, but have not taken any concrete actions yes. I don't buy the whole hexane separation thing. Why would algae be any different than any other oil feedstock? Squeeze it hard enough and we should get oil! I forget the name of the type of press, but the schematics of it look like a screw mounted horizontally. The algae would be fed in one end and as the squeezed material gets closer to the other end the internal pressure increases. This kind of press is used to extract oil from seeds I don't see why it wouldn't work with algae. Perhaps a hexane solution would increase the amount of oil extracted from the same amount of algae, but, so what! Who wants to play with hexane? I don't and I don't want a dependence upon materials I cannot make/source myself. Large scale presses like this are used for waste treatment. I guess they take sludge and run it through this press to get hardened waste pellets and cleaned waste water. So if oil can be extracted from algae with this basic design then the industrial sized presses are available and are a known entity. (read reduced risk) I will have access to a large amount of algae in a month or two. Does anyone on the list have a press and are willing to try an experiment? I can dry it out, box it up and ship it. A couple of kilograms should be sufficient for a first run. Cheers, O'Neil. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hello John >>>Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil >>>source. I have seen several references to it but haven't >>>investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land >>>not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply >>>some links? > >Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. > >http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, uses 5.4 times more than its fair share of the world's energy, the EU 2.6 times its share, Germany 2.6 times its share, France 2.8 times its share, Japan 2.7 times its share, Australia 3.8 times its share. "India uses one-fifth of its fair share, Sudan less than one-fifth its share, Nepal less than one-fifth its share. "The average American uses twice as much energy as the average European or Japanese and 155 times as much as the average Nepalese. "In terms of production, Americans produce more per head than Europeans and about the same as Japanese, but they use twice as much energy as the Japanese to do it." From: World energy use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse As I said, it's mostly waste. Have a look at some of Hakan's previous posts about building efficiency for instance. Average fuel consumption of US vehicles is higher now than it was 20 years ago. Etc etc. Nothing about this is sustainable, especially perhaps the inequity of it, military adventurism in pursuit of commandeering world energy supplies notwithstanding. This is simply the wrong question: "How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation?" Here are some better answers to better questions: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming As we so often say here, merely substituting biofuels for fossil fuel use is not nearly enough, a rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, with all ready-to-use renewable technologies used in combination as local conditions demand. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EM
RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hi All, Having worked many years in the wwt industry getting the water out of the algae is no easy problem. Yes, there are things like belt filter presses and cyclones but they only yield a filter cake with 50% water maybe a bit better. That still leaves an awful lot of water in the algae. What are the cost of removing the water per liter of oil produced this way? How much oil do you get from Algae anyway? How much algae/oil do you produce per hectare of pond? What are the inputs? I«ve read a little about this idea but dismissed it because of the water removal problems seemed so great. Was I wrong? Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: O'Neil Brooke To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/04/05 22:20 Subject: RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hey Keith, I did some reading, but have not taken any concrete actions yes. I don't buy the whole hexane separation thing. Why would algae be any different than any other oil feedstock? Squeeze it hard enough and we should get oil! I forget the name of the type of press, but the schematics of it look like a screw mounted horizontally. The algae would be fed in one end and as the squeezed material gets closer to the other end the internal pressure increases. This kind of press is used to extract oil from seeds I don't see why it wouldn't work with algae. Perhaps a hexane solution would increase the amount of oil extracted from the same amount of algae, but, so what! Who wants to play with hexane? I don't and I don't want a dependence upon materials I cannot make/source myself. Large scale presses like this are used for waste treatment. I guess they take sludge and run it through this press to get hardened waste pellets and cleaned waste water. So if oil can be extracted from algae with this basic design then the industrial sized presses are available and are a known entity. (read reduced risk) I will have access to a large amount of algae in a month or two. Does anyone on the list have a press and are willing to try an experiment? I can dry it out, box it up and ship it. A couple of kilograms should be sufficient for a first run. Cheers, O'Neil. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hello John >>>Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil >>>source. I have seen several references to it but haven't >>>investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land >>>not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply >>>some links? > >Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. > >http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, uses 5.4 times more than its fair share of the world's energy, the EU 2.6 times its share, Germany 2.6 times its share, France 2.8 times its share, Japan 2.7 times its share, Australia 3.8 times its share. "India uses one-fifth of its fair share, Sudan less than one-fifth its share, Nepal less than one-fifth its share. "The average American uses twice as much energy as the average European or Japanese and 155 times as much as the average Nepalese. "In terms of production, Americans produce more per head than Europeans and about the same as Japanese, but they use twice as much energy as the Japanese to do it." From: World energy use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse As I said, it's mostly waste. Have a look at some of Hakan's previous posts about building efficiency for instance. Average fuel consumption of US vehicles is higher now than it was 20 years ago. Etc etc. Nothing about this is sustainable, especially perhaps the inequity of it, military adventurism in pursuit of commandeering world energy supplies notwithstanding. This is simply the wrong question: "How much land is needed to
RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hey, I got some news out of you! :-) Thanks. Hey Keith, I did some reading, but have not taken any concrete actions yes. I don't buy the whole hexane separation thing. Neither do I. Why would algae be any different than any other oil feedstock? Squeeze it hard enough and we should get oil! And soy? Will squeezing soy give you oil? How do you get oil out of corn (maize)? (I don't know.) I forget the name of the type of press, but the schematics of it look like a screw mounted horizontally. The algae would be fed in one end and as the squeezed material gets closer to the other end the internal pressure increases. This kind of press is used to extract oil from seeds I don't see why it wouldn't work with algae. Perhaps a hexane solution would increase the amount of oil extracted from the same amount of algae, but, so what! Who wants to play with hexane? I don't and I don't want a dependence upon materials I cannot make/source myself. I fully agree. That's very important to us too, and it's the basis of Appropriate Technology after all - if we're not into that then why not. Large scale presses like this are used for waste treatment. I guess they take sludge and run it through this press to get hardened waste pellets and cleaned waste water. So if oil can be extracted from algae with this basic design then the industrial sized presses are available and are a known entity. (read reduced risk) As Tom says, you have to get the water out first - I guess, or most of it. Whatever happens, you'll be hefting a lot of water about the place and getting not a lot of dried algae out of it. Enough to be worth it? It'll be interesting to know. You're right, I reckon, you need a machine where you just have to dump it in the top and water comes out one end and algae pellets out the other. Hopefully a machine that doesn't cost too much or use too much power. I will have access to a large amount of algae in a month or two. Does anyone on the list have a press and are willing to try an experiment? I can dry it out, box it up and ship it. A couple of kilograms should be sufficient for a first run. Last time we discussed it I tried to be both sceptical and encouraging at the same time, not easy but I hope that's the message you got. I'd really like to hear about a good backyard approach to this. If you've got a small(ish) mixed farm it's not that difficult to produce a useful amount of oilseed as a by-product (if you rig it right growing it will already have paid for the trouble in other ways, and so will the seedcake). Growing a smallish crop on a biggish garden plot might be feasible, up to a point, but a good backyard algae system would certainly help. But I agree with Tom, good questions, lots of problems - and indeed, how much oil do you get from algae anyway? How much algae/oil do you produce per hectare of pond? Especially with ordinary, whatever-grows algae. I'm sceptical because I haven't seen any ready backyard answers to those and Tom's other questions yet, nor to other questions besides, and I can't think of any myself. But then it's not me who's doing it. So strength to yer arm, O'Neil. Keep in touch! Best wishes, thanks again Keith Cheers, O'Neil. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hello John >>>Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil >>>source. I have seen several references to it but haven't >>>investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land >>>not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply >>>some links? > >Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. > >http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, u
Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Keith Addison wrote: Hello John Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. Mike has made some coy references at tdiclub that suggest that a commercial venture may be in the works, but yes, the silence is rather deafening, isn't it. It's a familiar sort of silence, there are other such silences that make a similar noise. Here's an interesting 3rd party financial analysis of Mike's algae paper. Well, it's interesting for us 'Merkins, anyway. :) http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/biodiesel.html Thankyou! Interesting (though it had me chuckling too). The holy grail: "In his paper, under the section titled: How much biodiesel, Michael Briggs concluded that 140,800,000,000 (140.8 billion) gallons of biodiesel could replace 100% of the petroleum transportation fuels consumed in the United States annually, without requiring a big change in driving behavior or automotive technology." Look ma, no cold turkey! All we need is $300 billion 1991 dollars (and more by the day), and massive capital works projects over a huge area. :-) Did you read the "Water For All" paper too? Well, you knew I'd chuckle. I enjoyed reading it, and I wish you 'Merkins well, but I do rather tend to think you're just going to have to come off it anyway, huge top-down industrialised monocrop and monosolutions projects notwithstanding. This is perhaps the most realistic bit: "Keep in mind that it may not be wise to focus entirely on only one type of renewable fuel" etc. But then he gets into ethanol from switchgrass, same thing, and same question: has anybody actually produced any biodiesel from algae outside a laboratory, has anybody actually made any usable ethanol from switchgrass? Regards Keith jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
alised monocrop anything else does, and that's surely what nearly all of it will be. It can be done well, of course, at least the forestry part of it can, and economically too, but that's not the sort of project that pencils well with a coorporate accountant in his office, especially if he's doing the pencilling. Multi-purpose multi-crops are highly unlikely to ensue. Finally, does such gasification allow carbon capture and sequestration, making it carbon negative? The more industrialised it is, the more fossil-fuel dependent it will be, and the less carbon negative as a result. I've gone off-subject a bit: perhaps this is something for a new discussion stream but I'd be interested to have others' thoughts. No matter. Anyway, don't mind me, I'm just not too interested or impressed by allegedly sustainable fuel schemes that don't promote local community self-reliance and are closed to the Appropriate Technology approach. Plenty here who don't see it that way though, feel free, whatever. :-) Regards Keith Craig Jamieson. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 12 April 2005 20:03 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hello John >>>Perhaps a better solution for Hawaii would be an algae based oil >>>source. I have seen several references to it but haven't >>>investigated as of yet. It seems you could use all kinds of land >>>not currently used for agriculture. Would you like me to supply >>>some links? > >Mike Briggs at UNH is at the forefront of this work. > >http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html So people keep saying, and they've been saying it for quite awhile, but I don't see anything coming out of it other than this one article. And what have we here? http://www.green-trust.org/biodiesel.htm How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation? by Michael S. Briggs :-) As I often find with people chasing after algae (not with O'Neil though, the list member I referred to, he just wants to produce his own oil independently, same with others), they're tempted by the promised high yields and go chasing after the holy grail of how we can get to continue our amazingly wasteful and profligate gas-guzzling and avoid the cold turkey. It ain't going to work that way, algae or no algae. The party's over, especially for the OECD and more especially for the US: "On a per capita basis, the US, with 4.6% or world's population, uses 5.4 times more than its fair share of the world's energy, the EU 2.6 times its share, Germany 2.6 times its share, France 2.8 times its share, Japan 2.7 times its share, Australia 3.8 times its share. "India uses one-fifth of its fair share, Sudan less than one-fifth its share, Nepal less than one-fifth its share. "The average American uses twice as much energy as the average European or Japanese and 155 times as much as the average Nepalese. "In terms of production, Americans produce more per head than Europeans and about the same as Japanese, but they use twice as much energy as the Japanese to do it." From: World energy use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse As I said, it's mostly waste. Have a look at some of Hakan's previous posts about building efficiency for instance. Average fuel consumption of US vehicles is higher now than it was 20 years ago. Etc etc. Nothing about this is sustainable, especially perhaps the inequity of it, military adventurism in pursuit of commandeering world energy supplies notwithstanding. This is simply the wrong question: "How much land is needed to replace fossil fuels used for transportation?" Here are some better answers to better questions: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming As we so often say here, merely substituting biofuels for fossil fuel use is not nearly enough, a rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the local level, with all ready-to-use renewable technologies used in combination as local conditions demand. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Foreve
Re: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Hello Irwin, Hello Tom, - Original Message - From: "Tom Irwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Hi All, >Having worked many years in the wwt industry getting the water out of the >algae is no easy problem. Yes, there are things like belt filter presses and >cyclones but they only yield a filter cake with 50% water maybe a bit >better. That still leaves an awful lot of water in the algae. What are the >cost of removing the water per liter of oil produced this way? It was suggested that 3 phase centrifuges would help. But more work was needed on this.. >How much oil do you get from Algae anyway? >From NREL/TP-580-24190 "A Look Back at the U.S. Department of Energy's Aquatic Species Program:Biodiesel from Algae" biodiesel_from -algae.pdf. I do not have the original url but you may be able to locate it at the NREL website. "Detailed Analyses of Microalgal Lipids In addition to the in-house research being conducted in the area of strain collection and screening, there was an effort by Dr. Thomas Tornabene and others to characterize various strains via detailed lipid compositional analyses. Dr. Tornabene's laboratory at SERI (and later at the Georgia Institute of Technology) served as the focal point for the analysis of lipids in algal samples supplied by various researchers in the ASP. This section will describe the results of these analyses, and will provide details about the analytical methods used, as these methods were the most comprehensive used in the program. An early report by Tornabene et al. (1980) described the lipids that were present in the halophilic alga Dunaliella that had been isolated from the Great Salt Lake in Utah. The cells were grown to late logarithmic phase, harvested, and extracted with chloroform/methanol via the method of Bligh and Dyer (1959). Additional extraction by acetate buffer, followed by refluxing with an alkaline methanol/water mixture was then performed, followed by partitioning of lipids into petroleum ether. The extracted lipids were fractionated on the basis of polarity using silicic acid columns via differential elution with hexane, benzene, chloroform, acetone, and methanol. In this procedure, the lipids are eluted as follows: 1. hexane: acyclic hydrocarbons 2. benzene: cyclic hydrocarbons, polyunsaturated acyclic hydrocarbons, sterols, 3. chloroform: mono-, di- and triacylglycerols, free fatty acids, and phaeophytin a 4. acetone: glycolipids, carotenoids, and chlorophyll a and b; and 5. methanol: phospholipids and chlorophyll c.The various lipid classes were further analyzed via Si gel thin layer chromatography (both one- and two-dimensional), wherein lipids were detected via the use of iodine vapors (and autoradiography in the case of 14C-labeled lipids). In addition, lipids containing amino groups were detected via the ninhydrin reagent, and phospholipids were detected by the use of molybdate/H2SO4. Fatty acids were analyzed via gas chromatography using either flame ionization or mass spectroscopic detection after being converted to their methyl ester derivatives in the presence of methanolic HCl. The head groups of the polar lipids were identified via gas chromatography after being converted to alditol acetates. These and related methods were These analyses indicated that lipids comprised 45%-55% of the total organic mass of Dunaliella cells. Based on the distribution of 14C after labeling the cells with 14C-bicarbonate, neutral lipids accounted for 58.5% of the lipid mass, whereas phospholipids and galactolipids were 22.9% and 10.9% of the lipid mass, respectively. Isoprenoid hydrocarbons (including ?-carotene) and aliphatic hydrocarbons (in which the major components were tentatively identified as straightchain and methyl-branched C17 and C19 hydrocarbons with various degrees of unsaturation) represented 7.0% and 5.2% of the lipids, respectively. The major fatty acids present were palmitic (20.6%), linolenic (12.5%), linoleic (10.7%) and palmitoleic (7.8%), but no attempt was made to ascertain whether any of these fatty acids predominated a particular lipid class. The high hydrocarbon content of this alga is rather atypical of most of the strains characterized in the ASP. These types of hydrocarbons would probably require catalytic conversion into a usable fuel source, which would perhaps limit their utility as a production organism." The typical yiled was in the range of 45-55% on dry weight basis. >How much algae/oil do you produce per hectare of pond? The projected yields range from 25 tons/hectare/year to 150 tons/hectare/year with some extremes reported on both sides.based mostly on projections from lab/bench/small scales. >What are the inputs? N in the form of urea/ammonia/nitrate (300 to 600 micro M) depending on cost alongwith C in the form of 1%
