RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
Thanks Nick, I failed to take the low temperature into consideration. DUH on me, but it was just a well-meaning rambling thought. Gregg Nick & Jenny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Gregg, The engines can run biodiesel just fine at sealevel temperatures, the problem would be at cruising altitude and the sub zero temperatures encountered there causing the fuel to gel . Jet fuel is esentialy diesel but with a much lower cloud point. Regards Nick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gregg Davidson Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2004 9:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. Gregg Davidson http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ over weight people and higher fuel consumtion ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
Hi Gregg, The engines can run biodiesel just fine at sealevel temperatures, the problem would be at cruising altitude and the sub zero temperatures encountered there causing the fuel to gel . Jet fuel is esentialy diesel but with a much lower cloud point. Regards Nick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gregg Davidson Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2004 9:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. Gregg Davidson http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ over weight people and higher fuel consumtion ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
John Peggy wrote: Another comment about the larger people: The amazing weight gains make flying the inexpensive flights interesting in another way. You can really rub shin again and again when seated next to an obese person. Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It bugs me to tuck in my arms and still be skin to skin with the next person when I don't even know the name. Peggy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
While possible, it is not likely probable. I say this because of the BTU value of JP-8 verses BioDiesel.Jet fuel has a higher energy density, than BioDiesel, so if using BioDiesel in a jet aircraft, it would take more, in order to fly the same distance, in turn, the weight of the extra fuel and would require more fuel to move the extra fuel. What I would like to see, is a BioFuel, that has the same energy density ( or higher ) as Diesel #2, with the same lubrication and fuel system cleaning properties as BioDiesel.If someone could come up with such a BioFuel, I bet, that faster ( not to mention more wide spread ) acceptance of the BioFuel, than BioDiesel is now. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Gregg Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 16:36 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) > I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. > > Gregg Davidson > > Ken Riznyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A second comment. Yes the extra weight takes more jet > fuel, but what about all the extra petroleum products > used to grow and transport the extra food that is > eaten. I don't know how to calculate it but I am sure > that if everyone ate a sensible diet much more fuel > would be saved. > Ken > --- Peggy wrote:. > > > Another comment about the larger people: The amazing > > weight gains make > > flying the inexpensive flights interesting in > > another way. You can > > really rub shin again and again when seated next to > > an obese person. > > Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It > > bugs me to tuck in > > my arms and still be skin to skin with the next > > person when I don't even > > know the name. > > > > Peggy > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Greg Harbican > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:30 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity > > increases pollution ) > > > > Obesity hurts more than the people with the extra > > weight. > > > > Greg H. > > > > > > > -- > > > > Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs > > > > November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST > > > > > > ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things > > weighing down airplanes > > and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the > > cost of flights. A > > new government study reveals that airlines > > increasingly have to worry > > more about the weight of their passengers. > > > > America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom > > lines of airline > > companies as the extra pounds on passengers are > > causing a drag on > > planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel > > costs, according to the > > government study. > > > > Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans > > increased by 10 > > pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control > > and Prevention. The > > extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million > > to burn 350 million > > more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the > > additional weight of > > Americans, the federal agency estimated in a recent > > issue of the > > American Journal of Preventive Medicine. > > > > "The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences > > beyond direct health > > effects," said Dr. Deron Burton of the CDC. "Our > > goal was to highlight > > one area that had not been looked at before." > > > > The extra fuel burned also had an environmental > > impact, as an estimated > > 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were > > released into the air, > > according to the study. > > > > The agency said its calculations are rough > > estimates, issued to > > highlight previously undocumented consequences of > > the ongoing obesity > > epidemic. > > > > The estimates were calculated by determining how > > much fuel the 10 extra > > pounds of weight per passenger represented in > > Department of > > Transportation airline statistics, Burton said. > > > > Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United > > States, the underlying > &g
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. Gregg Davidson Ken Riznyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A second comment. Yes the extra weight takes more jet fuel, but what about all the extra petroleum products used to grow and transport the extra food that is eaten. I don't know how to calculate it but I am sure that if everyone ate a sensible diet much more fuel would be saved. Ken --- Peggy wrote:. > Another comment about the larger people: The amazing > weight gains make > flying the inexpensive flights interesting in > another way. You can > really rub shin again and again when seated next to > an obese person. > Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It > bugs me to tuck in > my arms and still be skin to skin with the next > person when I don't even > know the name. > > Peggy > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Greg Harbican > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:30 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity > increases pollution ) > > Obesity hurts more than the people with the extra > weight. > > Greg H. > > > -- > > Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs > > November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST > > > ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things > weighing down airplanes > and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the > cost of flights. A > new government study reveals that airlines > increasingly have to worry > more about the weight of their passengers. > > America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom > lines of airline > companies as the extra pounds on passengers are > causing a drag on > planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel > costs, according to the > government study. > > Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans > increased by 10 > pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control > and Prevention. The > extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million > to burn 350 million > more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the > additional weight of > Americans, the federal agency estimated in a recent > issue of the > American Journal of Preventive Medicine. > > "The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences > beyond direct health > effects," said Dr. Deron Burton of the CDC. "Our > goal was to highlight > one area that had not been looked at before." > > The extra fuel burned also had an environmental > impact, as an estimated > 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were > released into the air, > according to the study. > > The agency said its calculations are rough > estimates, issued to > highlight previously undocumented consequences of > the ongoing obesity > epidemic. > > The estimates were calculated by determining how > much fuel the 10 extra > pounds of weight per passenger represented in > Department of > Transportation airline statistics, Burton said. > > Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United > States, the underlying > cause of 400,000 deaths in 2000, a 33 percent jump > from 1990. If current > trends persist, it will become the nation's No. 1 > cause of preventable > death, the CDC said earlier this year. > > More than half - 56 percent - of U.S. adults were > overweight or obese in > the early 1990s, according to a CDC survey. That > rose to 65 percent in a > similar survey done from 1999 to 2002. > > Although the Air Transport Association of America > has not yet validated > the CDC data, spokesman Jack Evans said the health > agency's appraisal > "does not sound out of the realm of reality." > > With most airlines reporting losses blamed partly on > record-high fuel > costs, everything on an airplane is now a weighty > issue. Airlines are > doing everything they can to lighten the load on all > aircraft, from > wide-body jets to turboprops. > > Bulky magazines have gone out the door. Metal forks > and spoons have been > replaced with plastic. Large carry-ons are being > scrutinized and even > heavy materials that used to make up airplane seats > are being replaced > with plastic and other lightweight materials. > > "We're dealing in a world of small numbers - even > though it has a very > incremental impact" to reduce a 60- to 120-ton > aircraft's weight by > bumping off a few magazines, Evans said. "When you > consider airlines are > flying millions of miles, it adds up over time." > > Although passenger bulk has been an issue in the > past - Dallas-based > Southwest Airlines requires large people to buy a > second seat for > passenger safety and comfort - Evans says it's not > likely airlines will > scrutinize how much passengers weigh in the future. > Instead, they are > trying to do a better job of estimating p
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
A second comment. Yes the extra weight takes more jet fuel, but what about all the extra petroleum products used to grow and transport the extra food that is eaten. I don't know how to calculate it but I am sure that if everyone ate a sensible diet much more fuel would be saved. Ken --- Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:. > Another comment about the larger people: The amazing > weight gains make > flying the inexpensive flights interesting in > another way. You can > really rub shin again and again when seated next to > an obese person. > Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It > bugs me to tuck in > my arms and still be skin to skin with the next > person when I don't even > know the name. > > Peggy > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Greg Harbican > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:30 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity > increases pollution ) > > Obesity hurts more than the people with the extra > weight. > > Greg H. > > > -- > > Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs > > November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST > > > ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things > weighing down airplanes > and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the > cost of flights. A > new government study reveals that airlines > increasingly have to worry > more about the weight of their passengers. > > America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom > lines of airline > companies as the extra pounds on passengers are > causing a drag on > planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel > costs, according to the > government study. > > Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans > increased by 10 > pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control > and Prevention. The > extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million > to burn 350 million > more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the > additional weight of > Americans, the federal agency estimated in a recent > issue of the > American Journal of Preventive Medicine. > > "The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences > beyond direct health > effects," said Dr. Deron Burton of the CDC. "Our > goal was to highlight > one area that had not been looked at before." > > The extra fuel burned also had an environmental > impact, as an estimated > 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were > released into the air, > according to the study. > > The agency said its calculations are rough > estimates, issued to > highlight previously undocumented consequences of > the ongoing obesity > epidemic. > > The estimates were calculated by determining how > much fuel the 10 extra > pounds of weight per passenger represented in > Department of > Transportation airline statistics, Burton said. > > Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United > States, the underlying > cause of 400,000 deaths in 2000, a 33 percent jump > from 1990. If current > trends persist, it will become the nation's No. 1 > cause of preventable > death, the CDC said earlier this year. > > More than half - 56 percent - of U.S. adults were > overweight or obese in > the early 1990s, according to a CDC survey. That > rose to 65 percent in a > similar survey done from 1999 to 2002. > > Although the Air Transport Association of America > has not yet validated > the CDC data, spokesman Jack Evans said the health > agency's appraisal > "does not sound out of the realm of reality." > > With most airlines reporting losses blamed partly on > record-high fuel > costs, everything on an airplane is now a weighty > issue. Airlines are > doing everything they can to lighten the load on all > aircraft, from > wide-body jets to turboprops. > > Bulky magazines have gone out the door. Metal forks > and spoons have been > replaced with plastic. Large carry-ons are being > scrutinized and even > heavy materials that used to make up airplane seats > are being replaced > with plastic and other lightweight materials. > > "We're dealing in a world of small numbers - even > though it has a very > incremental impact" to reduce a 60- to 120-ton > aircraft's weight by > bumping off a few magazines, Evans said. "When you > consider airlines are > flying millions of miles, it adds up over time." > > Although passenger bulk has been an issue in the > past - Dallas-based > Southwest Airlines requires large people to buy a > second seat for > passenger safety and comfort - Evans says it's not > likely airlines will > scrutinize how much passengers weigh in the future. > Instead, they are > trying to do a better job of estimating passenger > weight in figuring out > how much fuel they need for a flight. > > Seattle-based Alaska Airlines now calculates the > weight of children on > flights, instead of using adult-weight formulas for > all passengers, > Evans
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
Another comment about the larger people: The amazing weight gains make flying the inexpensive flights interesting in another way. You can really rub shin again and again when seated next to an obese person. Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It bugs me to tuck in my arms and still be skin to skin with the next person when I don't even know the name. Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) Obesity hurts more than the people with the extra weight. Greg H. -- Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things weighing down airplanes and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the cost of flights. A new government study reveals that airlines increasingly have to worry more about the weight of their passengers. America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom lines of airline companies as the extra pounds on passengers are causing a drag on planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel costs, according to the government study. Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans increased by 10 pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million to burn 350 million more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the additional weight of Americans, the federal agency estimated in a recent issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. "The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences beyond direct health effects," said Dr. Deron Burton of the CDC. "Our goal was to highlight one area that had not been looked at before." The extra fuel burned also had an environmental impact, as an estimated 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were released into the air, according to the study. The agency said its calculations are rough estimates, issued to highlight previously undocumented consequences of the ongoing obesity epidemic. The estimates were calculated by determining how much fuel the 10 extra pounds of weight per passenger represented in Department of Transportation airline statistics, Burton said. Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United States, the underlying cause of 400,000 deaths in 2000, a 33 percent jump from 1990. If current trends persist, it will become the nation's No. 1 cause of preventable death, the CDC said earlier this year. More than half - 56 percent - of U.S. adults were overweight or obese in the early 1990s, according to a CDC survey. That rose to 65 percent in a similar survey done from 1999 to 2002. Although the Air Transport Association of America has not yet validated the CDC data, spokesman Jack Evans said the health agency's appraisal "does not sound out of the realm of reality." With most airlines reporting losses blamed partly on record-high fuel costs, everything on an airplane is now a weighty issue. Airlines are doing everything they can to lighten the load on all aircraft, from wide-body jets to turboprops. Bulky magazines have gone out the door. Metal forks and spoons have been replaced with plastic. Large carry-ons are being scrutinized and even heavy materials that used to make up airplane seats are being replaced with plastic and other lightweight materials. "We're dealing in a world of small numbers - even though it has a very incremental impact" to reduce a 60- to 120-ton aircraft's weight by bumping off a few magazines, Evans said. "When you consider airlines are flying millions of miles, it adds up over time." Although passenger bulk has been an issue in the past - Dallas-based Southwest Airlines requires large people to buy a second seat for passenger safety and comfort - Evans says it's not likely airlines will scrutinize how much passengers weigh in the future. Instead, they are trying to do a better job of estimating passenger weight in figuring out how much fuel they need for a flight. Seattle-based Alaska Airlines now calculates the weight of children on flights, instead of using adult-weight formulas for all passengers, Evans said. "Just like we don't control the costs of our fuel, we don't control the weights of our passengers," he said. "Passengers gain weight, but airlines are the ones that go on a diet. It's part of the conundrum we face right now." --- On The Net: CDC info: http://www.cdc.gov November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things weighing down airplanes and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the cost of flights. A new government study reveals that airlines increasingly have to worry more about the weight of their passengers. America's growing waistlines are hurti
