Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Gregg, Fuel from shortening makes perfectly fine biodiesel. Actually it makes fuel of higher energy content than other less saturated feedstocks. If the water wash test is taking half of one hour to split, you've got an incomplete reaction. Draw off 200 ml of what you believe to be biodiesel and reprocess it to see if more glyc drops.. Also, if it's taking four or five washes before you get a clean rinse, something is amiss. As for the colour of the fuel, that is largely determined by the degree that the parent stock was abused. While the fuel colour will be considerably lighter than the parent stock when finished, you'll never get "blonde" fuel out of "brunette" oil. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "gregg2560" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch > Hi All, > > I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of > biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This > particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first > one or two was quite milky as expected, & washes 3 - 6 got > increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked > the pH & it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD & > water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think > of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than > oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process > (Aleks Kac Method). > > As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. > > Sincerely, > Gregg Davidson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Hi Todd, Thanks for the advice. I actually was in error regarding the separation time, it's more like 10 to 15 minutes. Sorry about that, I did not have enough coffee in my system & I made that error. As to the washings, the ones in question were only a couple of hours in duration. The most recent batch only took 4. The first wash was with a little vinegar in the water which I let go for about 6 hours. The last 3 washings last no less than 24 hours each. I got clear water on the 3rd & ran a 4th wash just to be certain. No harm in erring on the side of caution. The current 7 litre batch is questionable, so I would feel better about reprocessing it, but I'm unsure if it needs a full reprocessing or just the 2nd Stage. The "Brunette" stock comes from a Long John Silver's near where I work. The oil / shortening mix is dark amber with a slight tinge of orange & I'm sure it's heavily used. Thanks again. Sincerely, Gregg Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gregg, Fuel from shortening makes perfectly fine biodiesel. Actually it makes fuel of higher energy content than other less saturated feedstocks. If the water wash test is taking half of one hour to split, you've got an incomplete reaction. Draw off 200 ml of what you believe to be biodiesel and reprocess it to see if more glyc drops.. Also, if it's taking four or five washes before you get a clean rinse, something is amiss. As for the colour of the fuel, that is largely determined by the degree that the parent stock was abused. While the fuel colour will be considerably lighter than the parent stock when finished, you'll never get "blonde" fuel out of "brunette" oil. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "gregg2560" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch > Hi All, > > I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of > biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This > particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first > one or two was quite milky as expected, & washes 3 - 6 got > increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked > the pH & it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD & > water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think > of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than > oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process > (Aleks Kac Method). > > As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. > > Sincerely, > Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
I am also in the process of washing my first batch. It has had one wash so far. When it came in contact with water it turned completely milky white. And did not separate for about 15 minutes. And I think some chemical reaction took place as the quantity of gas in the container (2.5l cocacola bottle) diminished. Is there anythin wrong here? I am a bit confused about the shake test, do you apply it to unwashed or washed biodiesel. Thank you, Teoman Naskali [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
I often have fuel that takes four or five washes. Water content seems low, but I have upped the methanol to almost 25 percent to assure complete reaction. Also, is it 3.1 or 3.5 grams per liter? How much can mono and diglycerides hurt the engine? Surely WVO must contain some fractured triglycerides. Rudolf Diesel engines ran for decades I am told on SVO. What about all the guys running WVO or SVO and they claim no problems other than clogged filters. Seems like rivalry between SVO'ers and biodieselers. If some glyc remains but it doesn't clog filters will it burn well enough so as not to cause a problem? Lurch Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Hi Gregg People say all sorts of things about this mater of the colour, and I don't want to argue with them, but for us the straw-yellow indicator has always been a good one, and it follows through with no wash problems, what you'd expect from a good brew. So for our part we agree with what Aleks says about it on our site in the "Quality" section, that it is a good indicator. The colour of the biodiesel varies very little no matter what sort of gunk we make it out of. Here's a photograph of a sample of recent batch at the end of the process, with a sample of the WVO we used - about average, though we've had much worse. Acid-base. http://journeytoforever.org/colourtest.jpg Here's a picture of biodiesel Todd made from vegetable shortening: http://journeytoforever.org/shorteningbd.jpg He said this at the time: >Again, 550 ml of heated shortening, 120 ml methanol and 2.5 grams of KOH at >92% purity. > >Did a quick swirl wash of 20 ml. No emulsification. >Did a frog in a blender wash with same. No emulsification and a sharp >separation between phases. HTH Best Keith >Hi All, > >I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of >biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This >particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first >one or two was quite milky as expected, & washes 3 - 6 got >increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked >the pH & it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD & >water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think >of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than >oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process >(Aleks Kac Method). > >As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. > >Sincerely, >Gregg Davidson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Hi Keith, The colour of my finished product is about the same as the WVO you used, sort of honey-coloured, but it is quite clear. I've made some digital photos that I can send to you the first part of next week, if that's okay. Since I had to wash the last batch separately, you will note that the BD in one jar is a bit lighter colour than the other due to the extra washes. I've made another batch (the 4th) of around 7 litres that I know I'm going to have to reprocess, as it's darker than a Killian's Irish Red, but I'm not certain whether it should have the full reprocessing or just the 2nd Stage. "One must learn by doing". Sincerely, Gregg Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Gregg People say all sorts of things about this mater of the colour, and I don't want to argue with them, but for us the straw-yellow indicator has always been a good one, and it follows through with no wash problems, what you'd expect from a good brew. So for our part we agree with what Aleks says about it on our site in the "Quality" section, that it is a good indicator. The colour of the biodiesel varies very little no matter what sort of gunk we make it out of. Here's a photograph of a sample of recent batch at the end of the process, with a sample of the WVO we used - about average, though we've had much worse. Acid-base. http://journeytoforever.org/colourtest.jpg Here's a picture of biodiesel Todd made from vegetable shortening: http://journeytoforever.org/shorteningbd.jpg He said this at the time: >Again, 550 ml of heated shortening, 120 ml methanol and 2.5 grams of KOH at >92% purity. > >Did a quick swirl wash of 20 ml. No emulsification. >Did a frog in a blender wash with same. No emulsification and a sharp >separation between phases. HTH Best Keith >Hi All, > >I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of >biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This >particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first >one or two was quite milky as expected, & washes 3 - 6 got >increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked >the pH & it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD & >water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think >of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than >oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process >(Aleks Kac Method). > >As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. > >Sincerely, >Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Gregg, Shouldn't take but a minute at most for the separation to occur. Ten to fifteen minutes gives the impression that there were large amounts of soap present and/or the reaction was incomplete. Reprocessing both the acid and base step wouldn't net you anything, as any of the FFAs that may have remained after the acid stage are already converted to soap. It's pretty important to give enough dwell time and apply enough heat/agitation in the acid stage in order to convert as many FFAs to esters as possible. Those measures are what make the reduced amounts of caustic possible on the base side. As for the source of your feedstock - Long John Silver's - that should make little to no difference. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Gregg Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch > Hi Todd, > > Thanks for the advice. I actually was in error regarding the separation time, it's more like 10 to 15 minutes. Sorry about that, I did not have enough coffee in my system & I made that error. > > As to the washings, the ones in question were only a couple of hours in duration. The most recent batch only took 4. The first wash was with a little vinegar in the water which I let go for about 6 hours. The last 3 washings last no less than 24 hours each. I got clear water on the 3rd & ran a 4th wash just to be certain. No harm in erring on the side of caution. > > The current 7 litre batch is questionable, so I would feel better about reprocessing it, but I'm unsure if it needs a full reprocessing or just the 2nd Stage. > > The "Brunette" stock comes from a Long John Silver's near where I work. The oil / shortening mix is dark amber with a slight tinge of orange & I'm sure it's heavily used. > > Thanks again. > > Sincerely, > Gregg Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Todd: I found that after a reprocess I can get a blonde product as blonde as fresh oil. I just thought that this might be of interest to you. regards, Chris -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:33 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch Gregg, Fuel from shortening makes perfectly fine biodiesel. Actually it makes fuel of higher energy content than other less saturated feedstocks. If the water wash test is taking half of one hour to split, you've got an incomplete reaction. Draw off 200 ml of what you believe to be biodiesel and reprocess it to see if more glyc drops.. Also, if it's taking four or five washes before you get a clean rinse, something is amiss. As for the colour of the fuel, that is largely determined by the degree that the parent stock was abused. While the fuel colour will be considerably lighter than the parent stock when finished, you'll never get "blonde" fuel out of "brunette" oil. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "gregg2560" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch > Hi All, > > I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of > biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This > particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first > one or two was quite milky as expected, & washes 3 - 6 got > increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked > the pH & it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD & > water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think > of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than > oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process > (Aleks Kac Method). > > As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. > > Sincerely, > Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
