RE: [biofuel] Salt and NaOH

2002-11-02 Thread kirk

H and Cl combine redily. Have water present and the HCl will go into the
water. A catalyst on the H line can start the reaction. Don't let a lot of
gas build up first as it is energetic. Even a bright light can initiate H
and Cl combining.
Kirk

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:56 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Salt and NaOH


Dunno if you remember this, on making NaOH from table salt.
http://cator.hsc.edu/~kmd/caveman/projects/chloralkali/slideshow/index.html

You end up with hydrogen and chlorine, which I guess you could turn
into hydrochloric acid, not sure quite how though (nor how to
concentrate it after that). Anyone have any ideas on that?

I was thinking you could use HCl instead of phosphoric to neutralize
the glycerin layer, as here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html
Separating glycerine/FFAs

You'd end up with more table salt - sodium chloride instead of sodium
phosphate - which you could turn into more NaOH. Does that make any
sense? This might help close the loop, and phosphoric is expensive.
Traditionally soapstock is acidulated with strong sulphuric acid, but
since phosphoric works just as well HCl should be okay, though I'm
not sure about safety considerations.

I don't know if any of this works - this NaOH from salt would be wet,
I don't know if drying it would leave you with a pure enough product
(not carbonated?), but it's interesting.

There's also this:

"Thus an equimolar amount of calcium chloride may be directly added
to the soapstock and prompt separation of the calcium soap by
precipitation from a relatively pure saline (NaCl) solution will
ensue. Calcium soaps are useful industrial ingredients, for instance
as demoulding agents."

More table salt. And Dubbin, quite nice. Seems to work equally well
with the glyc layer, glycerine and all.

Keith


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RE: [biofuel] Salt and NaOH

2002-11-02 Thread Keith Addison

Hi Kirk

>H and Cl combine redily. Have water present and the HCl will go into the
>water. A catalyst on the H line can start the reaction.

What sort of catalyst?

>Don't let a lot of
>gas build up first as it is energetic. Even a bright light can initiate H
>and Cl combining.

Thanks!

Keith


>Kirk
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:56 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Salt and NaOH
>
>
>Dunno if you remember this, on making NaOH from table salt.
>http://cator.hsc.edu/~kmd/caveman/projects/chloralkali/slideshow/index.html
>
>You end up with hydrogen and chlorine, which I guess you could turn
>into hydrochloric acid, not sure quite how though (nor how to
>concentrate it after that). Anyone have any ideas on that?
>
>I was thinking you could use HCl instead of phosphoric to neutralize
>the glycerin layer, as here:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html
>Separating glycerine/FFAs
>
>You'd end up with more table salt - sodium chloride instead of sodium
>phosphate - which you could turn into more NaOH. Does that make any
>sense? This might help close the loop, and phosphoric is expensive.
>Traditionally soapstock is acidulated with strong sulphuric acid, but
>since phosphoric works just as well HCl should be okay, though I'm
>not sure about safety considerations.
>
>I don't know if any of this works - this NaOH from salt would be wet,
>I don't know if drying it would leave you with a pure enough product
>(not carbonated?), but it's interesting.
>
>There's also this:
>
>"Thus an equimolar amount of calcium chloride may be directly added
>to the soapstock and prompt separation of the calcium soap by
>precipitation from a relatively pure saline (NaCl) solution will
>ensue. Calcium soaps are useful industrial ingredients, for instance
>as demoulding agents."
>
>More table salt. And Dubbin, quite nice. Seems to work equally well
>with the glyc layer, glycerine and all.
>
>Keith


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