Re: Italian tuneup - was RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Hey While I really don't care, but when did the Italians lay claim to and/or give such a high falutin' name to what previously was refereed to; blowing the cobs out? Italian tune up, I don't see the term catching on around here :) Doug --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 09/24/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Italian tuneup - was RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Italian tuneups are an occasional full throttle run. Not always needed or desirable for fastest acceleration. If black smoke on less that full throttle, and lots of it, check air filter, injectors, etc. then adjust driving habits to minimize. So, high rpm, not necessarily flat-out acceleration or floorboading it. Best Keith How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? By the way, all, how many have heard of the Italian tuneup? You see it mentioned a lot on the Merc discussion groups, as at the terrific resource at www.mbz.org It is really indispensable on all these diesels - basically it's take the thing out and floor it - often. Some say once a day full power acceleration (floorboarding it) on a Merc is the best thing for it. (Of course, on the old 240's and 300's this is how you drive them anyway, just to get them moving!) We have seen it at least twice now, where injectors were plugged up from long term babying and urban driving of the diesel, and the car in one case was acquired for $500 - and promptly turned into a $1500 car after a 10 minute tuneup of this nature. It is of value particularly for SVO users to know that diesels are meant to be worked, not driven around easy at low rpm all the time! (In the second case, the engine knocked and ran so poorly that even our local best, most honest and reliable VW shop owner was convinced it needed an engine overhaul. A floorboarded trip a long hill solved the problem and it ran wonderfully). Just be careful of not blowing old coolant hoses, overheating, etc. Just a minute or two. And take long highway trips, and don't run in overdrive around town.keep those rpm's up. How does that square with what Todd says about giving it more fuel than it can burn? You can get good acceleration without being leadfooted, just keep the throttle ahead of the revs, no need to floorboard it. What's required for this effect, acceleration or high rpm or both? Still no need to pump too much fuel in, you can maintain high rpm short of full throttle too, on much less than with fast acceleration. Best Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!propaneeee, naitrours
onee also, If you park next to a propane refueling depot, and there is propane in the air, the engine can runaway. Same thing can happen with worn rings. The engine will pull oil from the sump and take off until something breaks or oil runs out. zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zxif your par nes,t to a re propane refuelsing deponnt and u get enough propanee to make the engienr over revvv, tnen the engine blowing is the least of the worries,,, the event will mosst likely make the evening news enough propane to causee any sugnificant increase in rpm is most likeley more than enought to be fatalll to ;anyone in the area,,, even if ti did not erupt in a massiveee esplosion first,, if enought propane were leaking to cause such an event, no,one wold let a running engine of any kind anywhere nera the tanks,, that kind of leakaage isx a major event,,significant info can be found in the documnets theat tell convbustibile fuel air ratios,zx zx zx zxzxzx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zxzx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zxzx zx zx zx zx zx zx zxzx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx now, any en diesel engine that is so worn as to pull enough oill from the suppp thru the ringsss, is so worn as to prob not be able to runa in any case,( a diesel runs by compressiong the air usuallly to over 475 psi and at a tempt due to compressionnn to over the flassh point ofo the fuel,, usuually over 600 deg,, it musst hold that pressur at theat temp long enough for the fuel to ignite and provide the gas to push the piston they will howerver run a way due to lube oil i have be closely assoicated with best i rememberr at leat three, a 38ND8 1/8 fairbanksss morse opposed pisstoon 12 cyl, 4500 horsepower,, on a submarine,,, it blew a blower seal like detroait diesel blower, sucked lube oil aned rane wway, i killed it bly throwing rags over the blower screen and putting transh can over that, secondd, 8v71 detraoit diesel, again blew a blower seal, pulled the emer shutdown mousetrap and suht it down,,, lastly a vt 903 cummjins, 900 cubin inch v8 cummins turbocharged in a truck, turb seal,turbo was blowing oil into the engine, put its nose agaianst a buiilding , tried to sstall it down, didnt have a shutoof on the air, when the clucth burned out, i just ran away forom it, those of us who do not believe in or use kevlar underwaer sometimes lifve to fight another day, zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx nitrous ox injection,, propane injection,n20 nitrous oxyagen is used by lotss of very high performanece racers to get that last little edge from their race cars,,, and some street racers, but its installation is so expensiver and the refills for the bottles are so expensive that only ;the well emplowyued can afford it,,,its engagement is so harse theat it is very difficult to contain the horsepower producedd and it will find most any mechanical fault in the engine powertraian and make it fatal to the live of the engine,zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx propane in diesels,,, propane is used routinely in rvs, street driven dieselss truck pullers in by itself and in conjundtion with niitrous,, it is not harsely engageing to the engine and is friendly enough tothe common user,, the refills are relatively inexpensive, used by truckers that need that extra little bit to jusst get over the hill,,, it is ualually injected just in front of the turable, using off hte shelf parts, i am doing propane injection on my dta360 ihc turbo diesel to take it form 190 horse to over just about 260-275,zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx zx i dont say andy of this to hurt ansyhones feelings, my statements are open to challenge, this iss buckk,zx and turn off his engine as quick as he could. The other driver's engine started to over rev, without him in the cab. He went in the can and tried to turn the motor off. It wouldn't turn off. It continued to over rev and blew up the motor. I think that the same thing will happen with Oxygen. I don't think that there is any good way you can control it. Jeff I haven't been following this thread closely but propane injection is a very common modification. The driver you talked to may have been putting liquid propane in, causing much too much fuel at once. Anyway, my point is that many people use propane for
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
If you park next to a propane refueling depot, and there is propane in the air, the engine can runaway. Same thing can happen with worn rings. The engine will pull oil from the sump and take off until something breaks or oil runs out. = = = Original message = = = Jeff wrote: I have heard of truck drivers talk about getting propane in the air intake of their diesel engine. One driver I talk to told me of a time when this other truck driver smelled some propane and didn't think nothing of it. He went and turn off his engine as quick as he could. The other driver's engine started to over rev, without him in the cab. He went in the can and tried to turn the motor off. It wouldn't turn off. It continued to over rev and blew up the motor. I think that the same thing will happen with Oxygen. I don't think that there is any good way you can control it. Jeff I haven't been following this thread closely but propane injection is a very common modification. The driver you talked to may have been putting liquid propane in, causing much too much fuel at once. Anyway, my point is that many people use propane for increased power. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
So with this research (and it makes great sense) how would this affect us burners of BioDiesel and SVO? My diesel gets the black smoke under heavy load and excessive fuel. On BioDiesel it is a LOT less noticeable and of course doesn't smell. It will be interesting to see once I get my SVO kit installed and see how the machines run then. On another note, my father has a 1993 7.3 Ford F250 he pulls a travel trailer with and he was able to get a good bit more power and better mileage by opening his air breather and intake pipe to maximum size. He no has unrestricted airflow and it makes a big difference. mel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!! let~s consider nitrous oxide and the diesel, or more correctly, the turbo-diesel. To begin, a turbo-diesel has no air throttle. It is free to intake as much air as it can draw, or the turbochager can supply, on every intake stroke. Therefore, hot rodding the diesel is a matter of supplying the engine with as much fuel as can burned by the air available at maximum power. In fact, you can overfuel a diesel in the quest for power, but that results in excessive exhaust gas temperatures that will kill the turbocharger and the engine. It also results in black smoke from the exhaust (see Why EGT is Important Tech_whyegt.cfm elsewhere on this site). Let~s assume you~ve modified your turbo-diesel to the point that it is overfueled and belching black smoke under a full load. What can you do? One solution is to add nitrous oxide injection, but in this case, you would not add extra fuel because you~re already too rich. Three things happen when you do this. First, the extra oxygen from the nitrous oxide leans out the mixture and the black smoke will be reduced or eliminated. Second, the excess fuel will now be burned for extra power. And third, exhaust temperatures will decline since less afterburning of fuel will occur in the exhaust manifold and the intercooling effect on the intake air will drop the exhaust temperature by a roughly equal amount. When you think about it, adding nitrous oxide injection to a diesel is easier than adding it to a gas engine because you don~t have to mess with adding extra fuel. In fact, there~s no point in doing it unless you~re already in an overfueled condition. http://www.bankspower.com/tech_nitrousoxide.cfm = = = Original message = = = Do they have NOS for diesel cars too??? If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Always check the packaging. I have a box of the naphtha variety sitting next to me (in a ziplock baggy). - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input a particular caution is that modern mothballs are no longer naphthalene, but rather para-dicholorobenzene, combustion of which results in large amounts of hydrogen chloride formation- definitely not good for anything metallic. Steve Spence wrote: moth balls (naphtha) have been put in air cleaners for added oomph, but I wouldn't recommend it. - Original Message - From: Saul Juliao [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Hi all, This method of cleaning out the crud sounds similar to a technique used up here in Canada for cleaning out the soot from an oil fired stove in a fishing ice hut. Start the oil stove, bring it up to a hot heat, then throw in a dozen moth balls. The stove will then start sucking in as much are as possible and will suddenly start making a wolfing sound. It tends to start moving up and down a little (the stove). At this point you leave the hut and watch the soot come flying out of the chimney or the stove blows up. I have seen it done several times, the stove and the chimney both seem to be cleaned out nicely. Scary, and dangerous ... oh well could not help it Saul A. Juliao Andres Yver wrote: On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 05:06 PM, Keith Addison wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
I have heard of truck drivers talk about getting propane in the air intake of their diesel engine. One driver I talk to told me of a time when this other truck driver smelled some propane and didn't think nothing of it. He went and turn off his engine as quick as he could. The other driver's engine started to over rev, without him in the cab. He went in the can and tried to turn the motor off. It wouldn't turn off. It continued to over rev and blew up the motor. I think that the same thing will happen with Oxygen. I don't think that there is any good way you can control it. Jeff From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!! To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] let~s consider nitrous oxide and the diesel, or more correctly, the turbo-diesel. To begin, a turbo-diesel has no air throttle. It is free to intake as much air as it can draw, or the turbochager can supply, on every intake stroke. Therefore, hot rodding the diesel is a matter of supplying the engine with as much fuel as can burned by the air available at maximum power. In fact, you can overfuel a diesel in the quest for power, but that results in excessive exhaust gas temperatures that will kill the turbocharger and the engine. It also results in black smoke from the exhaust (see Why EGT is Important Tech_whyegt.cfm elsewhere on this site). Let~s assume you~ve modified your turbo-diesel to the point that it is overfueled and belching black smoke under a full load. What can you do? One solution is to add nitrous oxide injection, but in this case, you would not add extra fuel because you~re already too rich. Three things happen when you do this. First, the extra oxygen from the nitrous oxide leans out the mixture and the black smoke will be reduced or eliminated. Second, the excess fuel will now be burned for extra power. And third, exhaust temperatures will decline since less afterburning of fuel will occur in the exhaust manifold and the intercooling effect on the intake air will drop the exhaust temperature by a roughly equal amount. When you think about it, adding nitrous oxide injection to a diesel is easier than adding it to a gas engine because you don~t have to mess with adding extra fuel. In fact, there~s no point in doing it unless you~re already in an overfueled condition. http://www.bankspower.com/tech_nitrousoxide.cfm = = = Original message = = = Do they have NOS for diesel cars too??? If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
- Original Message - From: Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 13:27 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input 1)The alcohol and water would for the most part evaporate, cooling and densifying the air. Depending on the conditions, it would do so more effectively than a intercooler. 2)What alcohol does not evaporate, would enter the cylinders ( combustion chamber ), and the alcohol would provide a slight increase in O2 availability. I'm not sure if you meant it this way or not, but even the alcohol that DID evaporate would enter the cylinders, just in a gaseous form. There's nowhere else for it to go. Same goes for the water. Whatever you inject into the closed system of the intake system is going to go through the cylinders as long as the engine is running. Don't mean to be nit picky, and I'm not sure that you didn't mean exactly that, but it didn't sound like it to me. You are right, I personally don't see how it could be otherwise, because, it is a loop - from intake to cylinders to exhaust, any thing put into the loop will go through the loop. Do you have any sources for the theory behind this 100% efficiency gain? Yes, I've seen the theory come up in discussions different times on this list, but never a very satisfactory proof of this much performance. Either that or I've just missed it. When I stated that it can get you over 100% efficiency, that is about the ability to cool the incoming air. Under the right circumstances, you can cool the post turbo air, to a temperature under that of the ambient air temperature.This is something that the best intercoolers can not do. And I just spent a while searching the archives without finding much of anything very definitive. (Part of the problem is that searching for 'alcohol injection diesel' returned 1000 messages, which is probably the limit. I didn't want to look through everything.) Try Googeling Water injection This is were I started, and spent several days going through many of the returns. It will give you more info than you probably need, but for starters, try: http://www.snowperformance.net/faq.htm Aquamist FAQ's at http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rescr/rescr.html That will get you started, into the wonderful world of water injection of engines. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
Jeff wrote: I have heard of truck drivers talk about getting propane in the air intake of their diesel engine. One driver I talk to told me of a time when this other truck driver smelled some propane and didn't think nothing of it. He went and turn off his engine as quick as he could. The other driver's engine started to over rev, without him in the cab. He went in the can and tried to turn the motor off. It wouldn't turn off. It continued to over rev and blew up the motor. I think that the same thing will happen with Oxygen. I don't think that there is any good way you can control it. Jeff I haven't been following this thread closely but propane injection is a very common modification. The driver you talked to may have been putting liquid propane in, causing much too much fuel at once. Anyway, my point is that many people use propane for increased power. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
1)The alcohol and water would for the most part evaporate, cooling and densifying the air. Depending on the conditions, it would do so more effectively than a intercooler. 2)What alcohol does not evaporate, would enter the cylinders ( combustion chamber ), and the alcohol would provide a slight increase in O2 availability. I'm not sure if you meant it this way or not, but even the alcohol that DID evaporate would enter the cylinders, just in a gaseous form. There's nowhere else for it to go. Same goes for the water. Whatever you inject into the closed system of the intake system is going to go through the cylinders as long as the engine is running. Don't mean to be nit picky, and I'm not sure that you didn't mean exactly that, but it didn't sound like it to me. more below 3)What water does not evaporate, would enter the cylinders ( combustion chamber ), and turn to steam providing more expansion than air alone.In theory, you could even lean out the fuel a little and see a small increase in mileage, or don't lean it out and see an slight increase in over all power. Do it just right, and you might get a little of both. In theory, water/alcohol injection could provide a over 100% efficiency, Do you have any sources for the theory behind this 100% efficiency gain? Yes, I've seen the theory come up in discussions different times on this list, but never a very satisfactory proof of this much performance. Either that or I've just missed it. And I just spent a while searching the archives without finding much of anything very definitive. (Part of the problem is that searching for 'alcohol injection diesel' returned 1000 messages, which is probably the limit. I didn't want to look through everything.) Thank you, Erik ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Tractor pullers do this in the highly modified class ,you can see the exhaust change color when they add the water Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
let~s consider nitrous oxide and the diesel, or more correctly, the turbo-diesel. To begin, a turbo-diesel has no air throttle. It is free to intake as much air as it can draw, or the turbochager can supply, on every intake stroke. Therefore, hot rodding the diesel is a matter of supplying the engine with as much fuel as can burned by the air available at maximum power. In fact, you can overfuel a diesel in the quest for power, but that results in excessive exhaust gas temperatures that will kill the turbocharger and the engine. It also results in black smoke from the exhaust (see Why EGT is Important Tech_whyegt.cfm elsewhere on this site). Let~s assume you~ve modified your turbo-diesel to the point that it is overfueled and belching black smoke under a full load. What can you do? One solution is to add nitrous oxide injection, but in this case, you would not add extra fuel because you~re already too rich. Three things happen when you do this. First, the extra oxygen from the nitrous oxide leans out the mixture and the black smoke will be reduced or eliminated. Second, the excess fuel will now be burned for extra power. And third, exhaust temperatures will decline since less afterburning of fuel will occur in the exhaust manifold and the intercooling effect on the intake air will drop the exhaust temperature by a roughly equal amount. When you think about it, adding nitrous oxide injection to a diesel is easier than adding it to a gas engine because you don~t have to mess with adding extra fuel. In fact, there~s no point in doing it unless you~re already in an overfueled condition. http://www.bankspower.com/tech_nitrousoxide.cfm = = = Original message = = = Do they have NOS for diesel cars too??? If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
but rather para-dicholorobenzene, combustion of which results in large amounts of hydrogen chloride formation- definitely not good for anything metallic. Steve Spence wrote: moth balls (naphtha) have been put in air cleaners for added oomph, but I wouldn't recommend it. - Original Message - From: Saul Juliao [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Hi all, This method of cleaning out the crud sounds similar to a technique used up here in Canada for cleaning out the soot from an oil fired stove in a fishing ice hut. Start the oil stove, bring it up to a hot heat, then throw in a dozen moth balls. The stove will then start sucking in as much are as possible and will suddenly start making a wolfing sound. It tends to start moving up and down a little (the stove). At this point you leave the hut and watch the soot come flying out of the chimney or the stove blows up. I have seen it done several times, the stove and the chimney both seem to be cleaned out nicely. Scary, and dangerous ... oh well could not help it Saul A. Juliao Andres Yver wrote: On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 05:06 PM, Keith Addison wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
moth balls (naphtha) have been put in air cleaners for added oomph, but I wouldn't recommend it. - Original Message - From: Saul Juliao [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Hi all, This method of cleaning out the crud sounds similar to a technique used up here in Canada for cleaning out the soot from an oil fired stove in a fishing ice hut. Start the oil stove, bring it up to a hot heat, then throw in a dozen moth balls. The stove will then start sucking in as much are as possible and will suddenly start making a wolfing sound. It tends to start moving up and down a little (the stove). At this point you leave the hut and watch the soot come flying out of the chimney or the stove blows up. I have seen it done several times, the stove and the chimney both seem to be cleaned out nicely. Scary, and dangerous ... oh well could not help it Saul A. Juliao Andres Yver wrote: On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 05:06 PM, Keith Addison wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Hi all, This method of cleaning out the crud sounds similar to a technique used up here in Canada for cleaning out the soot from an oil fired stove in a fishing ice hut. Start the oil stove, bring it up to a hot heat, then throw in a dozen moth balls. The stove will then start sucking in as much are as possible and will suddenly start making a wolfing sound. It tends to start moving up and down a little (the stove). At this point you leave the hut and watch the soot come flying out of the chimney or the stove blows up. I have seen it done several times, the stove and the chimney both seem to be cleaned out nicely. Scary, and dangerous ... oh well could not help it Saul A. Juliao Andres Yver wrote: On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 05:06 PM, Keith Addison wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Comments below. - Original Message - From: Luke Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 09:28 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Maybe have the O2 injection proportional to throttle position or since its a turbo you could only inject when the turbo is engaged to reduce probability of damaging the turbo. The problem I see with this set up is the heat of the turbo, combining with the O2, to oxidize the metal faster. Now with a turbo, you could do a post turbo pre-engine manifold water/alcohol injection, the alcohol and water would do three things: 1)The alcohol and water would for the most part evaporate, cooling and densifying the air. Depending on the conditions, it would do so more effectively than a intercooler. 2)What alcohol does not evaporate, would enter the cylinders ( combustion chamber ), and the alcohol would provide a slight increase in O2 availability. 3)What water does not evaporate, would enter the cylinders ( combustion chamber ), and turn to steam providing more expansion than air alone.In theory, you could even lean out the fuel a little and see a small increase in mileage, or don't lean it out and see an slight increase in over all power. Do it just right, and you might get a little of both. In theory, water/alcohol injection could provide a over 100% efficiency, while an intercooler would provide only 20 to 30 % increase in efficiency over turbo alone. It is best to use one or the other, but not both, because what little water alcohol does not evaporate upon injection, could ( when the engine is turned off and things cool down ), collect at the lowest part of the intercooler, and cause corrosion. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
Do they have NOS for diesel cars too??? If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
If you are going to do it be you have to make sure that the O2 is injected as directly as possible into the combustion chamber or some of the more drastic (overeactions) may prove true, probably best into the intake manifold, after the . You also need a very tight control system to manage it as simply pressing a trigger on the dash-board wouldn't be that useful, perhaps use a throttle position reading, i.e. you'l be over fueling when your foot is on the floor so thats when you'll need boost. Maybe have the O2 injection proportional to throttle position or since its a turbo you could only inject when the turbo is engaged to reduce probability of damaging the turbo. However, since its a turbo maybe it'd be cheaper and safer to get your ECU remapped to give higher boost and to give boost at lower RPM, TD's tend to respond very well to 'chipping'. --- Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My engine is a 2.5 liter turbo charged Hyundai starex 98 engine ( I have heard that the Mitsubishi 2.5 l engine is the same but without a turbo) . It is rated at 85 hp. The van itself weighs 2 tons, and can take up to 12 people. It usually spits out more smoke when loaded. Anyway, the smoke isn't too serious, I was just thinking of lessening the waste, opitmising and maby gaining a little performance. Thanks, Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
If you really want more oxidation, NOS kits have come way down in price. This really is the best/safest way to add oxygen to an engine. http://www.holley.com/nosnitrous/index.html = = = Original message = = = Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:37:19 +0100 My engine is a 2.5 liter turbo charged Hyundai starex 98 engine ( I have heard that the Mitsubishi 2.5 l engine is the same but without a turbo) . It is rated at 85 hp. The van itself weighs 2 tons, and can take up to 12 people. It usually spits out more smoke when loaded. Anyway, the smoke isn't too serious, I was just thinking of lessening the waste, opitmising and maby gaining a little performance. zx zx zx zx zx zx if your engine has aa tachometerr, find hwat is the optaimum operationing rpm and drive by your tach instead of your speedometer,,, keep the engine spun up, not orverrevved tho, and your performance will increase,, buck _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee¨ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
In the UK we have an annual test, the MOT, part of this is a smoke test, common advice for cars that fail the smoke test is to and give it the itallian, filling up with Bio is also useful as it cleans the fuel system and burns cleaner. Just drive at highway speeds (60mph, 100kph = 4.5kRPM) in third for a few miles. This cleans out the combustion chambers by burning up coked on deposits thus reducing particulate emissions (smoke). If you just want a bit of a bigger kick from the engine a bit of kerosene can be used as injector cleaner, but always mix it with veg oil or bio because its got poor lubricity. Having a hydractive citroen I also have to 'exercise' the suspension regularly which is another great excuse for a Back-Road blast. --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've never heard of this 'italian tune up' but i guess if an injector gets clogged then pushing more volume thru it could affect it. i don't know much of the theory at all. tho if i have an issue like this with a diesel that isn't being pushed you can bet i'll try it! it's too easy and cheap to not at least give it try. seems rather painless. (even too much so, kinda urban legend like, but still worth a try.) --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? By the way, all, how many have heard of the Italian tuneup? You see it mentioned a lot on the Merc discussion groups, as at the terrific resource at www.mbz.org It is really indispensable on all these diesels - basically it's take the thing out and floor it - often. Some say once a day full power acceleration (floorboarding it) on a Merc is the best thing for it. (Of course, on the old 240's and 300's this is how you drive them anyway, just to get them moving!) We have seen it at least twice now, where injectors were plugged up from long term babying and urban driving of the diesel, and the car in one case was acquired for $500 - and promptly turned into a $1500 car after a 10 minute tuneup of this nature. It is of value particularly for SVO users to know that diesels are meant to be worked, not driven around easy at low rpm all the time! (In the second case, the engine knocked and ran so poorly that even our local best, most honest and reliable VW shop owner was convinced it needed an engine overhaul. A floorboarded trip a long hill solved the problem and it ran wonderfully). Just be careful of not blowing old coolant hoses, overheating, etc. Just a minute or two. And take long highway trips, and don't run in overdrive around town.keep those rpm's up. How does that square with what Todd says about giving it more fuel than it can burn? i think that a few parts of todd's post are in error, but i'll reply here to keep it down to one post from me rather than multiple. i hope that everything remains clear. if not let me know and i'll split it up next time. todd mentions that black smoke is a result of basically being too lead-footed. i don't believe that's true. a diesel in tune and good shape will only smoke a little, even when revving and at full throttle. if the injection system is working correctly then it will not put too much fuel into the cylinders. each cylinder is only so big and can hold so much air. there is a certain amount of fuel that can be burned efficiently in that much space and that is all. (talking about non turbo here. with a turbo the space can burn more, but there's still a limit - this time based on the amount of air shoved in there.) so each injection pulse should be limited to that much. i've heard that sometimes they're set to just a hair above so that there's excess diesel and every bit of o2 is used. but heavy black smoke in a diesel under load is most often worn or dirty injectors, in my experience. (although it could also be that the max fuel setting on the injection pump is too high. ) when they get worn the tiny injection holes lose their perfect shape and the fuel isn't atomized as well. so there are many larger drops. it's harder for the diesel to burn when it's not in contact with the air, as in the middle of a drop. so it's better, of course, to get the drops to be as small as possible. for that new or rebuilt injectors are in order. the better efficiency can give you more power and better fuel economy, all in one. good luck! erik You can get good acceleration without being leadfooted, just keep the throttle ahead of the revs, no need to floorboard it. What's required for this effect, acceleration or high rpm or both? Still no need to pump too much fuel in, you can maintain high rpm short of full throttle too, on much less than with fast acceleration. Best Keith Yet another of my random and
Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:23:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Teoman, I recommend you check out this web site: http://www.tdiclub.comwww.tdiclub.com Visit the forums, and you will get more diesel knowledge than you can handle. (I just got a connection there to a fellow in my area that volunteered to help me with my engine problem.) I never make black smoke! Yuk! I wouln't know how. By the way, my VW Beetle TDI diesel is now getting 62 mpg on summer fuel. Ernie Rogers Teoman said, Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
My engine is a 2.5 liter turbo charged Hyundai starex 98 engine ( I have heard that the Mitsubishi 2.5 l engine is the same but without a turbo) . It is rated at 85 hp. The van itself weighs 2 tons, and can take up to 12 people. It usually spits out more smoke when loaded. Anyway, the smoke isn't too serious, I was just thinking of lessening the waste, opitmising and maby gaining a little performance. Thanks, Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input DO NOT TRY IT!!!
Thanks a lot for the information. I knew it was a good idea to ask here first. You guys probably saved my 98 Hyundai Starex. I am aware of what high preassure oxygen can do, divers take extreme precautions when using pure oxygen, even the o rings of diving bottles have to be changed, and absoloutely no oil can remain anywhere. I was thinking that adding O2 to the air input just in front of the air fileter wouldn't cause too much of a partial pressure increase of oxygen in the air (from % 21 to % 30 maby). But rethinking the air gets sucked and compressed inside the cylinder making it much more preassurised. And the ignited. That would probably burn/melt the engine and everything close by very very efficiently. I have seen a preassure chamber that burned, it had high preassure pure oxygen in it. One patient was wearing the wrong kind of shoes and caused a spark from static electricity. The whole chamber had exploded/burned very fast leaving almost nothing left form the patients. SO DO NOT TRY THIS unless you really know what you are doing. Thanks again, Teoman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 10 September 2004 02:19 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
i've never heard of this 'italian tune up' but i guess if an injector gets clogged then pushing more volume thru it could affect it. i don't know much of the theory at all. tho if i have an issue like this with a diesel that isn't being pushed you can bet i'll try it! it's too easy and cheap to not at least give it try. seems rather painless. (even too much so, kinda urban legend like, but still worth a try.) --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? By the way, all, how many have heard of the Italian tuneup? You see it mentioned a lot on the Merc discussion groups, as at the terrific resource at www.mbz.org It is really indispensable on all these diesels - basically it's take the thing out and floor it - often. Some say once a day full power acceleration (floorboarding it) on a Merc is the best thing for it. (Of course, on the old 240's and 300's this is how you drive them anyway, just to get them moving!) We have seen it at least twice now, where injectors were plugged up from long term babying and urban driving of the diesel, and the car in one case was acquired for $500 - and promptly turned into a $1500 car after a 10 minute tuneup of this nature. It is of value particularly for SVO users to know that diesels are meant to be worked, not driven around easy at low rpm all the time! (In the second case, the engine knocked and ran so poorly that even our local best, most honest and reliable VW shop owner was convinced it needed an engine overhaul. A floorboarded trip a long hill solved the problem and it ran wonderfully). Just be careful of not blowing old coolant hoses, overheating, etc. Just a minute or two. And take long highway trips, and don't run in overdrive around town.keep those rpm's up. How does that square with what Todd says about giving it more fuel than it can burn? i think that a few parts of todd's post are in error, but i'll reply here to keep it down to one post from me rather than multiple. i hope that everything remains clear. if not let me know and i'll split it up next time. todd mentions that black smoke is a result of basically being too lead-footed. i don't believe that's true. a diesel in tune and good shape will only smoke a little, even when revving and at full throttle. if the injection system is working correctly then it will not put too much fuel into the cylinders. each cylinder is only so big and can hold so much air. there is a certain amount of fuel that can be burned efficiently in that much space and that is all. (talking about non turbo here. with a turbo the space can burn more, but there's still a limit - this time based on the amount of air shoved in there.) so each injection pulse should be limited to that much. i've heard that sometimes they're set to just a hair above so that there's excess diesel and every bit of o2 is used. but heavy black smoke in a diesel under load is most often worn or dirty injectors, in my experience. (although it could also be that the max fuel setting on the injection pump is too high. ) when they get worn the tiny injection holes lose their perfect shape and the fuel isn't atomized as well. so there are many larger drops. it's harder for the diesel to burn when it's not in contact with the air, as in the middle of a drop. so it's better, of course, to get the drops to be as small as possible. for that new or rebuilt injectors are in order. the better efficiency can give you more power and better fuel economy, all in one. good luck! erik You can get good acceleration without being leadfooted, just keep the throttle ahead of the revs, no need to floorboard it. What's required for this effect, acceleration or high rpm or both? Still no need to pump too much fuel in, you can maintain high rpm short of full throttle too, on much less than with fast acceleration. Best Keith Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
I don't think adding oxygen is practical, and I wouldn't recommend it anyway. In pure oxygen you can burn just about anything including steel under the right conditions. Diesels always operate (unless something is drastically wrong) with a surplus of air, but one of the big problems with diesel design and maintenance is mixing the fuel with the air in time to be fully burned not too far after top dead centre (piston position). It is achieved by controlling droplet size of the injected fuel, droplet speed (through injector design and injector pump pressure) versus swirl of the air in the combustion chamber, controlled by things like canting the intake valves and guide vanes. If a diesel engine is in good shape, black smoke is the sign that it's operating at maximum power per stroke (or for its rpms). Diesel design is in large part a compromise between black smoke (and a little inefficiency) and maximum power. Anything going wrong with the dispersion of fuel in the air in the combustion chamber is going to produce black smoke at a leaner mixture, i.e. less fuel burned for the amount of air, and less maximum power. Typical problem sources are the injectors (multi-hole nozzles inside the combustion chamber) (they get dirty, for instance, and the holes through which the fuel spurts are affected, or the beginning and end of injection are not as the designer intended) and the injection pump - problems afecting the pressure, or, again, the beginning and end of injection. When a diesel produces more black smoke than it did when it was new, it's usually because of some problem with the injection system - except that a dirty air filter could limit air flow and also cause black smoke. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input : Yet another of my random and crazy questions, : : It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is : going up a steep hill. : : I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my : greatgrandfather. : : The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably : caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to : the air filter of the engine? : : I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it : shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I : wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. : : Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. : : : Thanks for your time if you bother to answer : : Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Hi, You indicate you feel you have a problem with the air/fuel mixture. I'm no diesel mechanic, but wouldn't examining how much fuel is being injected as well as insuring air flow isn't being impeded the place start? Doug - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input : Yet another of my random and crazy questions, : : It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is : going up a steep hill. : : I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my : greatgrandfather. : : The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably : caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to : the air filter of the engine? : : I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it : shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I : wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. : : Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. : : : Thanks for your time if you bother to answer : : Teoman : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 09/07/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Hi Teoman ; A correctly operating diesel should not put out lots of black smoke. Of course a little is normal. During starting and under load it is normal to see increasing black smoke. In your case, if the black smoke is only when starting and going up a hill, it may be normal. I have never heard of using additional oxygen, so I can't comment. It might be like a turbocharger, but it may use lot's of oxygen to get any effect, ie. much more than a person would use breathing. Have you had your engine worked on lately (or ever)? My 25 year old truck was spewing black smoke after a timing belt change. The whole back of the truck turned black after 100km from the smoke. They had set the injection timing wrong. After correctly re-adjusting it, no black smoke at all. Check this first. Another possibility could be a problem with the injetor system. If it is injecting too much fuel, black smoke. This is unlikely. Typical failure modes of injection systems result in too little fuel, not too much. Another possibility is worn piston rings. Crankcase oil gets into the cylinder and burns, causing black smoke. You can know if this is the case by monitoring your crankcase oil. If it drops quickly, and you need to fill it regularly (like one liter every two weeks), this is probably the problem.. This would typically be true for old engines. Hope this helps. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Interesting idea but... you get black smoke for the reason you describe because the engine is tuned for emissions under 'normal' operating conditions not high load. When under high load it over fuels. Adding oxygen to the mix would help but how are you going to do it so its not there all the time, CO detector in the tailpipe?. Might be a good idea to give your car an air filter change and an itallian tune up (keep the revs high for a while to de-coke the engine). Is it a turbo diesel? if it is this could be a bad idea cos you might create enough back pressure to spin the turbo the wrong way adding O2 to your exhaust gas mis which could then ignite in your tailpipe, back box --- Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Unless you have a very through understanding of the dangers imposed by working in elevated oxygen environment do not get involved. Things that you would never think could burn will do so in an extremely violent manner in a oxygen rich environment. Oxygen is no joke. P.S. I don't know the answer to your question. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teoman Naskali Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
The following is not intended to be disrespectful or condescending: Unless you have a very through understanding of the dangers imposed by working in elevated oxygen environment do not play with it. Things that you would never think could burn will do so in en extremely violent manner in an oxygen rich environment. Oxygen is no joke. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teoman Naskali Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
Keith From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? It's normal, that a diesel (prechamber or even some newer ones) spits out some soot at startup and under load. Some, but not much. Fix/recalibrate your injectors, HP pump, clean/replace air and fuel filters for starters. Don't do oxygen, it's a very dangerous stuff to carry aorund. The most nonburnable stuff will ignite in presence of pure oxygen. Lead, for example. Burns with a beatiful crimson colored flame. What's your engine anyway? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Not only overheat, the engine head will crack, not to mention exhaust header corrosion. A better upgrade to (although very pricey) is the addition of a turbocharger + intercooler. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Aye!!! In the same breath it also means that an operator is not in sych with his/her vehicle. There's a little thing called an accelerator, usually located right below that heavy leaden thing called a foot. Black smoke is more often than not a symptom of the disconnect between the foot and the cpu, where the latter is clueless as to the fact that the engine cannot efficiently consume all the fuel that is being fed to it.under the conditions it is operating at that instant. Sooty exhaust is generally lessened by reducing pressure between the leaden thing and the accelerator. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input All diesels do that, because, the engine is working harder, so more fuel is added to compensate. Black smoke is also an indication of fuel burning in the exhaust manifold, which is also bad. Lots of black smoke means your working the engine hard harder than you should. Find out what kind of diesel you are using #1 or #2, that can make a difference. The #2 has longer carbon chains lower cetane, shorter carbon chains and higher cetane of #1 is better on hills, most fuel stations sell #2 in the summer, because it has a higher BTU content than #1 ( and so they can claim better mileage ), but sell #1 in the winter because it makes the engine easier to start when the temperatures drop. If you want to burn up your engine, use the O2, if you don't, back off on the pedal, gear down, and don't worry about keeping up with the rest of traffic, and that will cut the black smoke as well. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:48 Subject: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? By the way, all, how many have heard of the Italian tuneup? You see it mentioned a lot on the Merc discussion groups, as at the terrific resource at www.mbz.org It is really indispensable on all these diesels - basically it's take the thing out and floor it - often. Some say once a day full power acceleration (floorboarding it) on a Merc is the best thing for it. (Of course, on the old 240's and 300's this is how you drive them anyway, just to get them moving!) We have seen it at least twice now, where injectors were plugged up from long term babying and urban driving of the diesel, and the car in one case was acquired for $500 - and promptly turned into a $1500 car after a 10 minute tuneup of this nature. It is of value particularly for SVO users to know that diesels are meant to be worked, not driven around easy at low rpm all the time! (In the second case, the engine knocked and ran so poorly that even our local best, most honest and reliable VW shop owner was convinced it needed an engine overhaul. A floorboarded trip a long hill solved the problem and it ran wonderfully). Just be careful of not blowing old coolant hoses, overheating, etc. Just a minute or two. And take long highway trips, and don't run in overdrive around town.keep those rpm's up. How does that square with what Todd says about giving it more fuel than it can burn? You can get good acceleration without being leadfooted, just keep the throttle ahead of the revs, no need to floorboard it. What's required for this effect, acceleration or high rpm or both? Still no need to pump too much fuel in, you can maintain high rpm short of full throttle too, on much less than with fast acceleration. Best Keith Yet another of my random and crazy questions, It bothers me that my diesel puts out black smoke when it starts or is going up a steep hill. I recently discovered an oxygen tank in our basement probably for my greatgrandfather. The black smoke means that there is an incomplete reaction probably caused by insufficient oxygen. So what if I were to feed some oxygen to the air filter of the engine? I know it will overheat because of more combustion, but theoretically it shouldn't overheat too much since I wont be using it all the time and I wont be playing with the amount of fuel injected. Kinda like a NOS system without the cooling and preassurising effect. Thanks for your time if you bother to answer Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
