Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[JJJN]

Well I have been out a bit so I am late in reply, after reading all the 
good replys so far I really have nothing to add but if you get to much 
methanol or base in your procedure - it makes washing harder and you get 
poorer results.

Keep at it you'll get there.

Jim

Parraga Pablo-Francisco wrote:

> HI everybody and Bob  and JJN specially,
>  
>  
> I have made the porr man´s tritation process with tallow.  I did apply 
> for the experiment an equivalent of 300mL of methanol per liter, and 
> 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 of KOH.  My results, were to have 
> transformation in all cuantities of catalyst but 4.5.  I mean from 5 
> grams of catalyst per liter I had transformation i got the two fases, 
> and so on with the others.  The amount of glicerine were quite similar 
> for most of the batches but for the 5.5 and 7.5, finally I found that 
> may be the 5.5 one had a little bit mor tallow or methanol and I 
> fopund that 7.5 grams of KOH is the amount of catalyst that makes out 
> more glicerine.
>  
> The question is what is the right amount of catalyst to use for my 
> next process?
>  
> I would like to hear comments from you and suggestions about cleaning 
> my biodiesel.
>  
> I think i will use bubble washing.
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Pablo 
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Thomas Kelly]

Pablo,
    You wrote:

"I think i will use bubble washing."
 
Consider stir-washing. 
Read, re-read the information at JTF re: washing. 

I stir wash my biodiesel now. It saves a lot 
of time. 
Bubble washing can also mask some problems with 
processing. I found, early on, that if my fuel can't take stir-washing, it 
probably isn't very good.
   
Tom

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Parraga Pablo-Francisco 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:41 
PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Tallow
  
  HI everybody and Bob  and JJN specially,
   
   
  I have made the porr man´s tritation process with tallow.  I 
  did apply for the experiment an equivalent of 300mL of methanol per liter, and 
  4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 of KOH.  My results, were to 
  have transformation in all cuantities of catalyst but 4.5.  I mean from 5 
  grams of catalyst per liter I had transformation i got the two fases, and so 
  on with the others.  The amount of glicerine were quite similar 
  for most of the batches but for the 5.5 and 7.5, finally I found that may 
  be the 5.5 one had a little bit mor tallow or methanol and I fopund that 7.5 
  grams of KOH is the amount of catalyst that makes out more 
  glicerine.
   
  The question is what is the right amount of catalyst to use for my next 
  process?
   
  I would like to hear comments from you and suggestions about cleaning my 
  biodiesel.
   
  I think i will use bubble washing.
   
  Thanks
   
  Pablo 
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

Hi Pablo

>I used Fresh Tallow

In that case use the standard amount of lye, there's no need to do 
bracketing tests.

Since you're getting strange results, what else are you doing that 
could be wrong? How did you process the tests? What temperature? How 
did you agitate it? For how long? How did you mix the methoxide?

>I worked first with fresh vegetable oul and the results of tallow 
>are quiete similar but the glicerine is LIgtherl (less brown).
>
>I have not washed any of the tests.

Why not? Then it's just half a test.

Did you wash your fresh vegetable oil tests?

>I did not tritate I just put in a 200mL melted tallow in each of the 
>7 bottles, and add quantities of metanol (300 mL each)

150% methanol? 40ml would be enough. Oh, you said below 300 ml per 
litre, that's 60 ml per 200 ml, still more than enough.

>and KOH (85% pure)  to find out wich quantity would be adequate 
>between ( 4.5 to 7.5 Grams per litre of KOH) those used.

The basic quantity of 85% KOH is 5.8 grams per litre, so your first 
three tests were useless - 4.5, 5.0, 5.5. See "Using KOH":
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#koh

The first test with 4.5 g would have been useless anyway, as the 
basic quantity of 100% KOH is 4.9 g/litre.

>I found out that 7,5 grams per litre or 1,5 per 200mL will make most 
>quantity of gilcerine. But I obtained separation for all of the 
>tests but for the one equivalent to 4,5 grams per liter or  0.9 
>grams per 200mL.  I used methanol excess.

You certainly did!

>And I think i will make Bubble Washing I understand better the method.  

Tallow won't polymerise, but bubble washing is a lousy method. If you 
don't understand something well (I think only because you didn't read 
it yet) then the solution is to try to understand it better, not just 
to be satisfied with poor methods.

Best

Keith


>Any way keith or anybody if you have any sugestions I will hear 
>cause Is the way to get better.
>
>
>Pablo
>
>
>
>On 6/9/06, Keith Addison 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
>
>Hi Pablo
>
> >HI everybody and Bob  and JJN specially,
> >
> >I have made the porr man´s tritation process with tallow.
>
>Fresh tallow or used tallow? If it's used tallow did you titrate it
>or just use the bracket tests?
>
> >I did apply for the experiment an equivalent of 300mL of methanol
> >per liter, and 4.5, 5.0, 5.5 , 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 of KOH.  My
> >results, were to have transformation in all cuantities of catalyst
> >but 4.5.  I mean from 5 grams of catalyst per liter I had
> >transformation i got the two fases, and so on with the others.  The
> >amount of glicerine were quite similar for most of the batches but
> >for the 5.5 and 7.5, finally I found that may be the 5.5 one had a
> >little bit mor tallow or methanol and I fopund that 7.5 grams of KOH
> >is the amount of catalyst that makes out more glicerine.
>
>What strength of KOH are you using?
>
>Did you do wash tests of the samples?
>
> >The question is what is the right amount of catalyst to use for my
> >next process?
> >
> >I would like to hear comments from you and suggestions about
> >cleaning my biodiesel.
> >
> >I think i will use bubble washing.
>
>Well, if you want to waste a lot of time and risk oxidising your fuel
>you can use bubble-washing. I suggest you read this whole page first:
>http://journey 
>toforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html
>Washing
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
> >Thanks
> >
> >Pablo
>
>
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>lists.org
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>.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Parraga Pablo-Francisco]

I used Fresh Tallow 
 
I worked first with fresh vegetable oul and the results of tallow are quiete similar but the glicerine is LIgtherl (less brown).
 
I have not washed any of the tests. I did not tritate I just put in a 200mL melted tallow in each of the 7 bottles, and add quantities of metanol (300 mL each) and KOH (85% pure)  to find out wich quantity would be adequate between (
4.5 to 7.5 Grams per litre of KOH) those used.
 
I found out that 7,5 grams per litre or 1,5 per 200mL will make most quantity of gilcerine. But I obtained separation for all of the tests but for the one equivalent to 4,5 grams per liter or  0.9 grams per 200mL.  I used methanol excess. And I think i will make Bubble Washing I understand better the method.  Any way keith or anybody if you have any sugestions I will hear cause Is the way to get better.

 
 
Pablo  
On 6/9/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Pablo>HI everybody and Bob  and JJN specially,>>I have made the porr man´s tritation process with tallow.
Fresh tallow or used tallow? If it's used tallow did you titrate itor just use the bracket tests?>I did apply for the experiment an equivalent of 300mL of methanol>per liter, and 4.5, 5.0, 5.5
, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 of KOH.  My>results, were to have transformation in all cuantities of catalyst>but 4.5.  I mean from 5 grams of catalyst per liter I had>transformation i got the two fases, and so on with the others.  The
>amount of glicerine were quite similar for most of the batches but>for the 5.5 and 7.5, finally I found that may be the 5.5 one had a>little bit mor tallow or methanol and I fopund that 7.5 grams of KOH
>is the amount of catalyst that makes out more glicerine.What strength of KOH are you using?Did you do wash tests of the samples?>The question is what is the right amount of catalyst to use for my
>next process?>>I would like to hear comments from you and suggestions about>cleaning my biodiesel.>>I think i will use bubble washing.Well, if you want to waste a lot of time and risk oxidising your fuel
you can use bubble-washing. I suggest you read this whole page first:http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.htmlWashingBest
Keith>Thanks>>Pablo___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

Hi Pablo

>HI everybody and Bob  and JJN specially,
>
>I have made the porr man´s tritation process with tallow.

Fresh tallow or used tallow? If it's used tallow did you titrate it 
or just use the bracket tests?

>I did apply for the experiment an equivalent of 300mL of methanol 
>per liter, and 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 of KOH.  My 
>results, were to have transformation in all cuantities of catalyst 
>but 4.5.  I mean from 5 grams of catalyst per liter I had 
>transformation i got the two fases, and so on with the others.  The 
>amount of glicerine were quite similar for most of the batches but 
>for the 5.5 and 7.5, finally I found that may be the 5.5 one had a 
>little bit mor tallow or methanol and I fopund that 7.5 grams of KOH 
>is the amount of catalyst that makes out more glicerine.

What strength of KOH are you using?

Did you do wash tests of the samples?

>The question is what is the right amount of catalyst to use for my 
>next process?
>
>I would like to hear comments from you and suggestions about 
>cleaning my biodiesel.
>
>I think i will use bubble washing.

Well, if you want to waste a lot of time and risk oxidising your fuel 
you can use bubble-washing. I suggest you read this whole page first:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html
Washing

Best

Keith


>Thanks
>
>Pablo


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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[JJJN]

Thanks Keith,
I must have read that just backwards the first time.  That makes me feel 
alot better about using it too.
Hope I did not dissuade any one from its use.

The day came that the rubber met the road here - I filled my 2000 Dodge 
Cumins with Biodiesel that have been making all winter.  I started with 
a B-35-40 ratio.  My filter plugged up within 15 miles, but for-warned 
is to be prepared, so I had another filter on hand and I quickly changed 
it.  My mileage went up about 2 MPG and I have not noticed a power 
change.  I noticed an incredible lack of smell and noise, a friend said 
it sounded like a Duramax and  smells better than a car.

Would like to thank every one for the help in getting started with this 
incredible fuel.

Jim

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hello Jim
>
>Tallow has a low Iodine Value, not high. Variously given as 50-60, 
>33-47, 50, 35-48, but not higher than 60. Low IV, high melting point, 
>not good for winter, but it's not a drying oil given to rapid 
>oxidation and polymerisation.
>
>Iodine Values
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine
>
>Oxidation and polymerisation
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxid
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Bob,
>>I really like the bd from tallow and (grill Grease) but it has a very
>>low winter use and high iodine value.  I am treating all my bio with
>>both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot.
>>as far as winterizing in Montana the process is simple: Mid March
>>through mid September. petro the rest. I also think you should use it up
>>as fast as possible. ( dont store)   Keep in touch  with the results
>>you  get from tallow as I also am interested.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>Bob Carr wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Pablo,
>>>I am in the middle of testing tallow myself. It does produce good Bd,
>>>but in my opinion it is best to use the two stage acid/base
>>>method.with this feedstock.
>>>Regards
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>- Original Message -
>>>*From:* Parraga Pablo-Francisco
>>>
>>>*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>
>>>*Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 6:38 PM
>>>*Subject:* [Biofuel] Tallow
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Is there someone Who had worked Bio diesel from tallow?
>>>
>>>I do Know the process but I am afraid I not sure about
>>>quantities.  What one should be the Ph for the trtation process?
>>>
>>>Is OK KOH and Methanol?
>>>
>>>Well any one Who Knows Would be helpful
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>Pablo
>>>  
>>>
>
>
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>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

Hello Jim

Tallow has a low Iodine Value, not high. Variously given as 50-60, 
33-47, 50, 35-48, but not higher than 60. Low IV, high melting point, 
not good for winter, but it's not a drying oil given to rapid 
oxidation and polymerisation.

Iodine Values
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine

Oxidation and polymerisation
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxid

Best

Keith


>Bob,
>I really like the bd from tallow and (grill Grease) but it has a very
>low winter use and high iodine value.  I am treating all my bio with
>both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot.
>as far as winterizing in Montana the process is simple: Mid March
>through mid September. petro the rest. I also think you should use it up
>as fast as possible. ( dont store)   Keep in touch  with the results
>you  get from tallow as I also am interested.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jim
>
>Bob Carr wrote:
>
> > Hi Pablo,
> > I am in the middle of testing tallow myself. It does produce good Bd,
> > but in my opinion it is best to use the two stage acid/base
> > method.with this feedstock.
> > Regards
> > Bob
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > *From:* Parraga Pablo-Francisco
> > 
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > 
> > *Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 6:38 PM
> > *Subject:* [Biofuel] Tallow
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there someone Who had worked Bio diesel from tallow?
> >
> > I do Know the process but I am afraid I not sure about
> > quantities.  What one should be the Ph for the trtation process?
> >
> > Is OK KOH and Methanol?
> >
> > Well any one Who Knows Would be helpful
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Pablo


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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[JJJN]

Bob,
I really like the bd from tallow and (grill Grease) but it has a very 
low winter use and high iodine value.  I am treating all my bio with 
both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot.  
as far as winterizing in Montana the process is simple: Mid March 
through mid September. petro the rest. I also think you should use it up 
as fast as possible. ( dont store)   Keep in touch  with the results 
you  get from tallow as I also am interested.

Thanks

Jim

Bob Carr wrote:

> Hi Pablo,
> I am in the middle of testing tallow myself. It does produce good Bd, 
> but in my opinion it is best to use the two stage acid/base 
> method.with this feedstock.
> Regards
> Bob
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Parraga Pablo-Francisco
> 
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 6:38 PM
> *Subject:* [Biofuel] Tallow
>
> Hi,
>  
> Is there someone Who had worked Bio diesel from tallow?
>  
> I do Know the process but I am afraid I not sure about
> quantities.  What one should be the Ph for the trtation process?
>  
> Is OK KOH and Methanol?
>  
> Well any one Who Knows Would be helpful
>  
> Thanks
>  
>  
> Pablo 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
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>
>
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>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Tallow

[Bob Carr]

Hi Pablo,
I am in the middle of testing tallow myself. It 
does produce good Bd, but in my opinion it is best to use the two stage 
acid/base method.with this feedstock.
Regards
Bob

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Parraga Pablo-Francisco 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:38 
PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Tallow
  
  Hi,
   
  Is there someone Who had worked Bio diesel from tallow?
   
  I do Know the process but I am afraid I not sure about quantities.  
  What one should be the Ph for the trtation process?
   
  Is OK KOH and Methanol?
   
  Well any one Who Knows Would be helpful
   
  Thanks
   
   
  Pablo 
   
   
   
   
   
  
  

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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>I have heard that much of the used veggie oil is being added to feedstock
>direct.  Aside from the low nutritional value, what are your thoughts on
>this?
>
>Mike

Hi Mike

Problems with that too since the dioxin scare in Belgium. Used oil 
value is right down, at least in Britain. If you just measure the 
protein it does have nutritional value, and that seems to have been 
the approach. It always beat me though that the high FFA content made 
it unsuitable for human consumption but not to feed animals raised 
for human consumption. I think a lot of people are asking questions 
like that now. Also of course a lot (most?) of the used veggie oil 
contains animals fats and oils. Should it be fed to grass-eaters? 
People are saying "No". All these practices are being looked at. It's 
okay to feed meat and bonemeal to chickens, it seems, according to 
industry. It's also okay to feed chicken litter (manure and bedding) 
to grass-eaters. No no, the prion can't get into the cattle that way. 
Uh-huh. That from the folks who gave us prions in the first place, 
and then denied they existed. Now we know all about prions though, so 
it's quite safe. Actually we know there's a rather undescribed 
thingie with a label on it that says "prion", and the court is still 
out on how the cattle got infected in the first place, and the 
humans. No doubt there are other unknown thingies down the road that 
we'll also find labels for in time, after denying they exist. The 
sane thing to do with all this stuff, tallow included, is to turn it 
into fuel. And accomplish in the doing what Terry calls "the ethical 
switch", stop turning our livestock into cannibals.

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>"bob golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>
> >I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.
>
>Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than
>conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a
>treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be
>completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a
>British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70
>countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may
>then have been fed to their cattle).
>
>The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered
>products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you
>are.
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>Handmade Projects
>Tokyo
>http://journeytoforever.org/


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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Mike Brownstone]

I have heard that much of the used veggie oil is being added to feedstock
direct.  Aside from the low nutritional value, what are your thoughts on
this?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow


"bob golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

>I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.

Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than
conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a
treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be
completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a
British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70
countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may
then have been fed to their cattle).

The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered
products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you
are.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


>- Original Message -
>From: "beeteljeuse beelzebub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> > >
> > >
> > >,
> > > My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> > >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> > >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> > >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> > >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> > >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> > >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> > >inexpensive..
> >
> > You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow
>from
> > europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected
nations
> > even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.
> >
> > Allen


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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

"bob golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

>I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.

Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than 
conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a 
treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be 
completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a 
British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70 
countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may 
then have been fed to their cattle).

The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered 
products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you 
are.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 
>- Original Message -
>From: "beeteljeuse beelzebub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> > >
> > >
> > >,
> > > My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> > >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> > >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> > >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> > >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> > >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> > >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> > >inexpensive..
> >
> > You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow
>from
> > europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations
> > even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.
> >
> > Allen


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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[bob golding]

I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.
- Original Message -
From: "beeteljeuse beelzebub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> >
> >
> >,
> > My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> >inexpensive..
>
> You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow
from
> europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations
> even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.
>
> Allen
>
> _
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>


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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[beeteljeuse beelzebub]

>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>,
> My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
>interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
>drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
>daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
>looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
>quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
>As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
>inexpensive..

You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow from 
europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations 
even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.

Allen

_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Hello Gerry,

Thanks, but unfortunately the attachment was blocked by the yahoo group for
security. Perhaps you could send a message with the attachment direct to my
email address which is [EMAIL PROTECTED] .

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 1:18 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow



Hi Hanns,

See attached for price history

(See attached file: crude palm oil prices.htm)





Gerry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>Hi Hanns,
>
>See attached for price history
>
>(See attached file: crude palm oil prices.htm)
>
>
>
>
>
>Gerry

Sorry, Gerry, attachments get blocked (then we don't get viruses).

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[leegerry]

Hi Hanns,

See attached for price history

(See attached file: crude palm oil prices.htm)





Gerry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Keith,

Was just looking at the biodiesel yield tables
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html and it occurred to me
whether the yields for crops like coconut and oil palm are annual (most
likely), and for such as rapeseed, soybean, corn etc. are yields per
harvest. Can you advise?

Thanks,

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2001 3:22 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand
>only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism
&
>stuff.
>
>Hanns

:-) I'm sure you'll manage. Flames duly damped (I hope!), at least
for now. It happens every now and then, but not too often.

All best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/




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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand
>only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism &
>stuff.
>
>Hanns

:-) I'm sure you'll manage. Flames duly damped (I hope!), at least 
for now. It happens every now and then, but not too often.

All best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand
only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism &
stuff.

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2001 12:57 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


Hi Hanns

Thanks for the info.

>Keith,
>
>Here is the URL of Kokonut Pacific P/L http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au If
>you read it you will know as much about DME oil as I. Have sent them an
>email but as yet to receive a reply. Another URL
>http://www.undp.org.fj/sed/NEWS/news16.htm states the process has been used
>Samoa, Kiribati and Fiji. But could not find any further references
>elsewhere.
>
>For a village based appropriate technology process the cost of some $US4500
>plus the necessity for electricity seems rather high.

What I thought too. It's too expensive really to be the empowering
technology they claim. Government grants and stuff. I get the idea
the original process they copied in Tuvalu might be more interesting.
Also they talk about all copra being exported for processing and the
evils thereof, but that's not the case. They also talk of local
traditional uses, which must mean local extraction. I have the
impression local extraction is fairly ubiquitous. I'm sure there is
local extracting and probably small-scale local plants in India, for
instance. Maybe this needs more work. They seem to have done only
half the job, breaking off when they had enough for a business
proposition to put to funders.

Also I don't quite see how it can be an all-weather technique as
claimed and produce the oil within hours of picking if it includes a
solar drier.

Nonetheless, very interesting, thanks again.

According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are
the two highest producers:

Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre

coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287
oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635

soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48
rapeseed - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever

>Don't know whether
>they have patented the process or not.

I'm sure they must have. I wonder if the Tuvalu folks get a cut? They
need it, I think their island is sinking because of climate change.

>Also don't know the fat percentage in copra but maybe someone else in this
>forum does.
>
>Regarding what planet I come from and how many hands there are? Well,
>perhaps the third rock, and if you cover both eyes with your hands, then
you
>really do need a third one! Need I say what for?

No, no need! Sorry, Hanns, it's the editor in me. Anyway, try
covering both eyes with one hand, much easier to cheat and peer
between the fingers that way. :-)

The message #, by the way, doesn't come with the emails. The messages
are numbered at the list website, and it really helps to have the
number if you're searching for a particular item in the archives as
there's a number search box.

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>Cheers,
>
>Hanns
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 1:15 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>Hello Hanns
>
>Thanks very much for this info.
>
> >Keith et al,
> >
> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone
>as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
>copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
>FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves
no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification)
in
> >diesel 

RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Thanks,

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2001 3:45 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow








Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC)
Subject:  RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow





According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are
the two highest producers:

Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre

coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287
oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635

soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48
rapeseed   - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever


>>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high
yielding?
What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean,
rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to
produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil
yeild
from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area?
 Just my wild musings.
 Joe.









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Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Hanns et al,
  Oil composition is in the article by Mary Enig at:
www.apc.org.sg/special.htm . Have quickly scanned it but dont have time to
read it. The better source is probably the USDA Nutritional Data Base.
B.r.,  David


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Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Hanns,
  See below
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: Hanns B. Wetzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 1:06 AM
Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


> David,
>
> See leegerry's message. (am using Microsoft Outlook for my email and
> although I've scanned the Internet Header of each message, have yet to
find
> out where the message # is located) The price of crude palm oil is
> definitely around $US200/tonne at present.
**Perhaps try: Malaysian Institute of Chartered Secretaries for a source. He
is much more likely to be correct than me as we are not talking about the
same thing exactly. He mentioned the Intl Market Price whereas I mentioned a
price that someone had given me for a grower wanting to sell a certain
amount privately (probably pushed for money and the price reflected that). I
can probably get a price in a few minutes and will probably do so out of
curiosity.
>
> As I mentioned in my original message, reported production cost in
Indonesia
> for 1996 was $US127/tonne and FOB price was $US600/tonne with projected
FOB
> price to remain above $US400/tonne during the foreseeable future. That
> scenario had remained more or less true. This was from a study done by
> Donald F. Larsen of the International Economics Department of the World
> Bank.
>
> Hanns



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RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC)
Subject:  RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow





According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are
the two highest producers:

Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre

coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287
oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635

soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48
rapeseed   - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever


>>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding?
What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean,
rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to
produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild
from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area?
 Just my wild musings.
 Joe.









Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

Hi Hanns

Thanks for the info.

>Keith,
>
>Here is the URL of Kokonut Pacific P/L http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au If
>you read it you will know as much about DME oil as I. Have sent them an
>email but as yet to receive a reply. Another URL
>http://www.undp.org.fj/sed/NEWS/news16.htm states the process has been used
>Samoa, Kiribati and Fiji. But could not find any further references
>elsewhere.
>
>For a village based appropriate technology process the cost of some $US4500
>plus the necessity for electricity seems rather high.

What I thought too. It's too expensive really to be the empowering 
technology they claim. Government grants and stuff. I get the idea 
the original process they copied in Tuvalu might be more interesting. 
Also they talk about all copra being exported for processing and the 
evils thereof, but that's not the case. They also talk of local 
traditional uses, which must mean local extraction. I have the 
impression local extraction is fairly ubiquitous. I'm sure there is 
local extracting and probably small-scale local plants in India, for 
instance. Maybe this needs more work. They seem to have done only 
half the job, breaking off when they had enough for a business 
proposition to put to funders.

Also I don't quite see how it can be an all-weather technique as 
claimed and produce the oil within hours of picking if it includes a 
solar drier.

Nonetheless, very interesting, thanks again.

According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are 
the two highest producers:

Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre

coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287
oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635

soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48
rapeseed - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever

>Don't know whether
>they have patented the process or not.

I'm sure they must have. I wonder if the Tuvalu folks get a cut? They 
need it, I think their island is sinking because of climate change.

>Also don't know the fat percentage in copra but maybe someone else in this
>forum does.
>
>Regarding what planet I come from and how many hands there are? Well,
>perhaps the third rock, and if you cover both eyes with your hands, then you
>really do need a third one! Need I say what for?

No, no need! Sorry, Hanns, it's the editor in me. Anyway, try 
covering both eyes with one hand, much easier to cheat and peer 
between the fingers that way. :-)

The message #, by the way, doesn't come with the emails. The messages 
are numbered at the list website, and it really helps to have the 
number if you're searching for a particular item in the archives as 
there's a number search box.

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>Cheers,
>
>Hanns
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 1:15 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>Hello Hanns
>
>Thanks very much for this info.
>
> >Keith et al,
> >
> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone
>as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
>copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
>FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in
> >diesel engines.
>
>Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
>with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
>diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
>mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
>ratios for the two oils), running it stra

RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

David,

See leegerry's message. (am using Microsoft Outlook for my email and
although I've scanned the Internet Header of each message, have yet to find
out where the message # is located) The price of crude palm oil is
definitely around $US200/tonne at present.

As I mentioned in my original message, reported production cost in Indonesia
for 1996 was $US127/tonne and FOB price was $US600/tonne with projected FOB
price to remain above $US400/tonne during the foreseeable future. That
scenario had remained more or less true. This was from a study done by
Donald F. Larsen of the International Economics Department of the World
Bank.

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 6:31 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


Hi Hanns,

> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone
as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat
Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the price
for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was
anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be
the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the
back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long
ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I would
have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the
problem is getting it to market.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves
no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification)
in
> >diesel engines.
** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content
initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was
high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they
import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed as
I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the
figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see
round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their
diet it may  have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified.
Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?)

> Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
> with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
> diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
> mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
> ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
> system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
> worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
> from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.
**Would also like to know a bit more about DME

> >On the other hand,
>
> Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)
>
> >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
> >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined
for
> >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based
> >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
> >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
> >
> >Any thought on this subject?
>
> I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most
> worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general
> interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time
> in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application.
>
> Good luck!

B.r.,  David



Biofuel at J

RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Lee,

You obviously have a better knowledge of ongoing prices for palm oil. Can
you tell me what the highest and lowest FOB price for Malaysian CPO were
over during the last five years? Also do you know the current prices for FMS
copra and bulk coconut oil. Or if not where to find them.

Many thanks,

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 11:38 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow



Price for Malaysian CPO(crude palm oil) is M$750 for May 2001. That is
US$198.
It is not feasible to turn it into Biofuel, unless gas prices goes up
double.
Gerry






"David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/18/2001 04:30:33 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow




Hi Hanns,

> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has
gone
as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat
Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the
price
for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was
anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be
the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the
back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long
ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I
would
have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the
problem is getting it to market.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves
no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I
am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification)
in
> >diesel engines.
** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content
initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was
high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they
import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed
as
I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the
figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see
round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their
diet it may  have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified.
Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?)

> Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
> with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
> diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
> mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
> ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
> system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
> worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
> from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.
**Would also like to know a bit more about DME

> >On the other hand,
>
> Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)
>
> >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
> >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined
for
> >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village
based
> >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
> >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
> >
> >Any thought on this subject?
>
> I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most
> worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general
> interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time
> in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would

RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Keith,

Here is the URL of Kokonut Pacific P/L http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au If
you read it you will know as much about DME oil as I. Have sent them an
email but as yet to receive a reply. Another URL
http://www.undp.org.fj/sed/NEWS/news16.htm states the process has been used
Samoa, Kiribati and Fiji. But could not find any further references
elsewhere.

For a village based appropriate technology process the cost of some $US4500
plus the necessity for electricity seems rather high. Don't know whether
they have patented the process or not.

Also don't know the fat percentage in copra but maybe someone else in this
forum does.

Regarding what planet I come from and how many hands there are? Well,
perhaps the third rock, and if you cover both eyes with your hands, then you
really do need a third one! Need I say what for?

Cheers,

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 1:15 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


Hello Hanns

Thanks very much for this info.

>Keith et al,
>
>One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The
>current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone
as
>high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia
>is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
>figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
>much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
>Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
>
>On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
copra
>market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so.
>Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
>considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small
>scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
>Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
FFA
>and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no
>residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
>wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in
>diesel engines.

Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.

>On the other hand,

Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)

>there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
>throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined
for
>medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based
>and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
>increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
>
>Any thought on this subject?

I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most
worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general
interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time
in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application.

Good luck!

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>Hanns
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2001 1:06 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> >Thanks Keith,
> >
> >Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd
> >forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have
>just
> >copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm
oil
> >on a fairly large scale perhaps.
> >
> >Hanns
>
>Hello Hanns
>
>Good news. Start small! Please let us know your results, there's a
>lot of interest in palm oil, I keep getting asked about it.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>Handmade Projects
>Tokyo
>http://journeytoforever.org/


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Thanks Gerry,
 Now I know. Believe a lot of palm oil is turned into
soap and is also the basis for a lot of glycerine. I believe quite an amount
could be used for biodiesel locally if the byproduct of glycerine could be
refined and purified properly, thus having the glycerine subsidise the
biodiesel cost. When you are just dumping the glycerine it certainly does
not make sense. The trouble with glycerine is that it is so energy intensive
because the boiling point is 290 C (more than 3.5 times that of ethanol)
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>
> Price for Malaysian CPO(crude palm oil) is M$750 for May 2001. That is
> US$198.
> It is not feasible to turn it into Biofuel, unless gas prices goes up
> double.
> Gerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/18/2001 04:30:33 AM
>
> Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>
> To:   
> cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
> Subject:  Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>
>
> Hi Hanns,
>
> > >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
> The
> > >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has
> gone
> as
> > >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
> Indonesia
> > >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> > >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures
are
> > >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> > >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
> ** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat
> Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the
> price
> for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was
> anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to
be
> the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the
> back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long
> ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I
> would
> have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the
> problem is getting it to market.
> > >
> > >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
> copra
> > >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
> so.
> > >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> > >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
> small
> > >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME
(Direct
> > >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with <
0.2%
> FFA
> > >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and
leaves
> no
> > >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I
> am
> > >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without
esterification)
> in
> > >diesel engines.
> ** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content
> initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was
> high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they
> import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed
> as
> I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember
the
> figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see
> round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their
> diet it may  have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified.
> Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?)
>
> > Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
> > with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
> > diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
> > mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
> > ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
> > system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
> > worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
> > from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.
> **Would also like to know a bit more about DME
>
> > >On the other hand,
> >
> > Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)
> >
> > >there are many (presently) unused coconut p

Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[leegerry]

Price for Malaysian CPO(crude palm oil) is M$750 for May 2001. That is
US$198.
It is not feasible to turn it into Biofuel, unless gas prices goes up
double.
Gerry






"David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/18/2001 04:30:33 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow




Hi Hanns,

> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has
gone
as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat
Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the
price
for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was
anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be
the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the
back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long
ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I
would
have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the
problem is getting it to market.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves
no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I
am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification)
in
> >diesel engines.
** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content
initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was
high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they
import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed
as
I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the
figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see
round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their
diet it may  have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified.
Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?)

> Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
> with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
> diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
> mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
> ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
> system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
> worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
> from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.
**Would also like to know a bit more about DME

> >On the other hand,
>
> Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)
>
> >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
> >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined
for
> >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village
based
> >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
> >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
> >
> >Any thought on this subject?
>
> I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most
> worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general
> interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time
> in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application.
>
> Good luck!

B.r.,  David



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Hi Hanns,

> >One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost.
The
> >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone
as
> >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is
Indonesia
> >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
> >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
> >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
> >Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
** Thought it was you Aussies fleecing us poor Kiwis. Maybe its ex pat
Aussies and Kiwis living in PNG fleecing the rest of us. Dont know the price
for palm oil as I have never really looked into it but didnt think it was
anywhere as high as the figures you quote. Malaysia which is reported to be
the worlds biggest producer is said to have a glut of it. Somewhere in the
back of my mind is the figure of US$60 or $80 someone quoted not so long
ago. Because the oil content is so high (something like 40% offhand) I would
have thought this was a relatively cheap oil to produce. I suppose the
problem is getting it to market.
> >
> >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The
copra
> >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain
so.
> >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
> >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very
small
> >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
> >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2%
FFA
> >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves
no
> >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
> >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification)
in
> >diesel engines.
** what % of copra is oil? I know it has a fairly high water content
initially until it is dried but would not have thought the oil content was
high enough although it must have a reasonable fat content. I know they
import copra meal from the islands here and it is used in pelletised feed as
I was looking at it once for inclusion in ratite feed but cant remember the
figures. Judging by the number of fat islanders especially Samoans you see
round Auckland and who traditionally eat a fair amount of coconut in their
diet it may  have a reasonable amount of fat that can be transestified.
Has anyone done any research or trials with copra? (Keith?)

> Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct,
> with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either
> diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a
> mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different
> ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel
> system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be
> worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil",
> from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.
**Would also like to know a bit more about DME

> >On the other hand,
>
> Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)
>
> >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
> >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined
for
> >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based
> >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
> >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
> >
> >Any thought on this subject?
>
> I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most
> worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general
> interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time
> in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application.
>
> Good luck!

B.r.,  David



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Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Kirk,
Very true. Yeast when first introduced to the wash where there is
plenty of starch go into a breeding pattern until the oxygen is used up at
which point they start producing ethanol and then dying as their numbers
outgrow the food supply. This is why the amount of yeast introduced into a
wash is important and should be sufficiently large enough so they quickly
dominate.
B.r., David

- Original Message -
From: kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 4:04 AM
Subject: RE: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> A big difference in yeast bodies/ethanol yield ratio can be made by
accurate
> counts of innoculant. The organism has a replication time and you would
like
> the food used up just before a statistical replication if ethanol is the
> objective rather than yeast bodies.
> I read this probably 25 years ago in a book with the words Industrial
> Alcohol in the title. The author had a Scottish name. Original publication
> was pre 1920. Book was not available for loan. The library was the
Millikan
> Library on campus at CalTech. Thats all the info I can give except if
memory
> serves he said doing it properly could affect yeast bodies by a doubling
and
> that is a lot of lost ethanol. A microscope would be needed so you could
> quantify your innoculant. Accurate temperature control is vital. Any
biology
> majors on this list? I'm electronics.
>
> Kirk




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RE: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[kirk]

A big difference in yeast bodies/ethanol yield ratio can be made by accurate
counts of innoculant. The organism has a replication time and you would like
the food used up just before a statistical replication if ethanol is the
objective rather than yeast bodies.
I read this probably 25 years ago in a book with the words Industrial
Alcohol in the title. The author had a Scottish name. Original publication
was pre 1920. Book was not available for loan. The library was the Millikan
Library on campus at CalTech. Thats all the info I can give except if memory
serves he said doing it properly could affect yeast bodies by a doubling and
that is a lot of lost ethanol. A microscope would be needed so you could
quantify your innoculant. Accurate temperature control is vital. Any biology
majors on this list? I'm electronics.

Kirk


-Original Message-
From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:04 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


Ron,
   What you need to do is work out how much fuel you are going to use in
a year and how much each month. Once you know this you can then work out how
you are going to produce this. You then need to know how much time you are
prepared to devote to distillation at anyone hit. Once you know this you can
roughly work out  how you are going to achieve this and what size still you
require. What you will also need to figure out is what you are going to use
for your fermentation stock and what you are going to use for the heat
energy source for the distillation. Work these all out and get back to me
and I will try to give you a hand. What you will need is probably a 3 or 4"
column diameter still but before I can advise any further I need as much
detail as possible.
Also how are you going to ferment the fermentation stock and what size tanks
are you going to use?
If distilling for this amount of vehicles you will probably need a BATF
permit. It generally tends to pay to stay on the right side of the law.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Thanks for your letter. I'm still trying to find the right size design for
> what I have in mind. Maybe I've been thinking to small as to still size. I
> have a 1993 corvette, a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo, a 1972 chevy chevelle, a
> mitsubishi mirage, a riding lawn mower and a push mower. I'm paying US
> $29.00 every 10 days for the corvette gasoline(petrol?), the chevelle eats
> gas likes crazy, the rodeo and the mitsubishi aren't to bad but still use
> fuel. (we have a big family) I would like to make enough ethanol to run
the
> family fleet but have no idea how large to make my still. Any hints would
be
> greatly appreciated as I know you are getting into the still business. If
> there is someone who has good plans for the size still I need please let
me
> know.
> Thanks to all,
> Ron Miller



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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

Hello Hanns

Thanks very much for this info.

>Keith et al,
>
>One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The
>current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone as
>high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia
>is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
>figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
>much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
>Hence my leaning towards large scale production.
>
>On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The copra
>market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so.
>Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
>considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small
>scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
>Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% FFA
>and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no
>residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
>wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in
>diesel engines.

Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct, 
with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either 
diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a 
mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different 
ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel 
system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be 
worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil", 
from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests.

>On the other hand,

Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-)

>there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
>throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined for
>medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based
>and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
>increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.
>
>Any thought on this subject?

I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most 
worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general 
interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time 
in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application.

Good luck!

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>Hanns
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2001 1:06 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> >Thanks Keith,
> >
> >Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd
> >forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have
>just
> >copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm oil
> >on a fairly large scale perhaps.
> >
> >Hanns
>
>Hello Hanns
>
>Good news. Start small! Please let us know your results, there's a
>lot of interest in palm oil, I keep getting asked about it.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>Handmade Projects
>Tokyo
>http://journeytoforever.org/


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Ron,
   What you need to do is work out how much fuel you are going to use in
a year and how much each month. Once you know this you can then work out how
you are going to produce this. You then need to know how much time you are
prepared to devote to distillation at anyone hit. Once you know this you can
roughly work out  how you are going to achieve this and what size still you
require. What you will also need to figure out is what you are going to use
for your fermentation stock and what you are going to use for the heat
energy source for the distillation. Work these all out and get back to me
and I will try to give you a hand. What you will need is probably a 3 or 4"
column diameter still but before I can advise any further I need as much
detail as possible.
Also how are you going to ferment the fermentation stock and what size tanks
are you going to use?
If distilling for this amount of vehicles you will probably need a BATF
permit. It generally tends to pay to stay on the right side of the law.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Thanks for your letter. I'm still trying to find the right size design for
> what I have in mind. Maybe I've been thinking to small as to still size. I
> have a 1993 corvette, a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo, a 1972 chevy chevelle, a
> mitsubishi mirage, a riding lawn mower and a push mower. I'm paying US
> $29.00 every 10 days for the corvette gasoline(petrol?), the chevelle eats
> gas likes crazy, the rodeo and the mitsubishi aren't to bad but still use
> fuel. (we have a big family) I would like to make enough ethanol to run
the
> family fleet but have no idea how large to make my still. Any hints would
be
> greatly appreciated as I know you are getting into the still business. If
> there is someone who has good plans for the size still I need please let
me
> know.
> Thanks to all,
> Ron Miller



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[steve spence]

how about ambiodextrous?

Aleks, you are the biogod. I bow before you ;-)

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
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(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message - 
From: "Aleksander <kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > hey guys, ethanol is totally welcome here. we tend to get really 
> intense on
> > biodiesel at times, but if you are doing ethanol work (and many of 
> you are)
> > please, speak up.
> > 
> > 
> > Steve Spence
> 
> Yeah, and even some us die-hard biodieselers are converting to 
> ethanolers too(well, to become 'bireligional - is that the right 
> term?).
> We are fed up with the high methanol price and low winter efficiency 
> of methyl esters. With ethanol we could make biodiesel as a real 
> biofuel.
> 
> Cheers, Aleks
> 
> 
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> 
>   www.   
>
>  
>  
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 


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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Keith et al,

One of the problems using  palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The
current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone as
high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia
is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are
figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are
much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right.
Hence my leaning towards large scale production.

On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The copra
market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so.
Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at
considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small
scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct
Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% FFA
and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no
residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am
wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in
diesel engines.

On the other hand, there are many (presently) unused coconut palms
throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined for
medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based
and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the
increased production of non fossil diesel fuel.

Any thought on this subject?


Hanns

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2001 1:06 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>Thanks Keith,
>
>Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd
>forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have
just
>copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm oil
>on a fairly large scale perhaps.
>
>Hanns

Hello Hanns

Good news. Start small! Please let us know your results, there's a
lot of interest in palm oil, I keep getting asked about it.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[ronald miller sr]

Thanks for your letter. I'm still trying to find the right size design for
what I have in mind. Maybe I've been thinking to small as to still size. I
have a 1993 corvette, a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo, a 1972 chevy chevelle, a
mitsubishi mirage, a riding lawn mower and a push mower. I'm paying US
$29.00 every 10 days for the corvette gasoline(petrol?), the chevelle eats
gas likes crazy, the rodeo and the mitsubishi aren't to bad but still use
fuel. (we have a big family) I would like to make enough ethanol to run the
family fleet but have no idea how large to make my still. Any hints would be
greatly appreciated as I know you are getting into the still business. If
there is someone who has good plans for the size still I need please let me
know.
Thanks to all,
Ron Miller
- Original Message -
From: David Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Hi Ron, Keith, Steve, Aleks, et al,
> At present I believe I
> have solved a number of problems associated with small fuel ethanol
stills,
> and was about to bring a range of small stills out at the start of the
year,
> after spending the previous 18 months working almost full time on them in
> between caring for my mother. I was hoping that these small stills would
> help pay for further developments to get some of the slightly bigger still
> experimental work finished and to a useable stage but have got somewhat
> diverted with these by-pass oil and fuel filters which I see as a
worthwhile
> venture in their own right, whose use I would most definitely like to see
> spread and become commonplace, and with trying to solve the distillation
and
> purification of glycerine, a by-product which widespread production and
> purification to a reasonably high level would certainly help with the
> manufacture and cost of biodiesel. Unfortunately the envolvement with the
> by-pass filters has meant I need to concentrate on that at this stage as
it
> is taking every penny I have to keep it going with the result that work on
> the stills has come to a grinding halt in the meantime. At present I could
> get back and shortly intend to get back on to  the production of stills
but
> really need about $20,000 to $30,000 to get them up and running. If there
is
> someone out there who is prepared to put up that sort of money in return
for
> a reasonable return on their money I am prepared to get back onto them but
> in the meantime I need to pursue the course I have adopted. At this stage
I
> have thrown a lot of money at both projects although far more at the still
> one and would eventually like to see a return on my money while at the
same
> time seeing these benefit people. Having spent the last 11 1/2 years of my
> life looking after my folks I dont want to be in the same boat when it
comes
> to my old age. The plans are therefore not for sale but I hope it will not
> be long before I get stills to market.
> Ron if you are getting involved with ethanol production I would advise you
> against involvement with a lot of the small alcohol stills out there for
the
> home distillation market as the majority of them were designed by people
who
> only have a limited knowledge of distillation with grossly inferior stills
> resulting. (not to say that good quality stills will not come out of this
> area eventually). Talk about Cowboys International. (probably not a good
> thing to say to someone living in the States as I am sure there are many
> hardworking, honest, and good cowboys there. In this part of the world the
> word cowboy applied in this sense means something totally different: like
> someone who is as rough as guts, takes no pride in his work, and in short
is
> a rip off artist). I suggest you download the two books Keith has on his
> site and thoroughly read them. You will learn a lot from them in terms of
> the basics. I would also search your local large city library with the
help
> of a good librarian who knows what she is doing. It is amazing what they
can
> turn up. They can also source books from other libraries. One good source
> worth looking in is your local university Engineering  School Dept.
> B.r.,  David
>
>
> > >Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still
> > >design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to
> know
> > >who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making
> fuel
> > >for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home
> > >Distillation Handbook " By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good
> > >plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need
> go

Re: Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[David Reid]

Hi Ron, Keith, Steve, Aleks, et al,
At present I believe I
have solved a number of problems associated with small fuel ethanol stills,
and was about to bring a range of small stills out at the start of the year,
after spending the previous 18 months working almost full time on them in
between caring for my mother. I was hoping that these small stills would
help pay for further developments to get some of the slightly bigger still
experimental work finished and to a useable stage but have got somewhat
diverted with these by-pass oil and fuel filters which I see as a worthwhile
venture in their own right, whose use I would most definitely like to see
spread and become commonplace, and with trying to solve the distillation and
purification of glycerine, a by-product which widespread production and
purification to a reasonably high level would certainly help with the
manufacture and cost of biodiesel. Unfortunately the envolvement with the
by-pass filters has meant I need to concentrate on that at this stage as it
is taking every penny I have to keep it going with the result that work on
the stills has come to a grinding halt in the meantime. At present I could
get back and shortly intend to get back on to  the production of stills but
really need about $20,000 to $30,000 to get them up and running. If there is
someone out there who is prepared to put up that sort of money in return for
a reasonable return on their money I am prepared to get back onto them but
in the meantime I need to pursue the course I have adopted. At this stage I
have thrown a lot of money at both projects although far more at the still
one and would eventually like to see a return on my money while at the same
time seeing these benefit people. Having spent the last 11 1/2 years of my
life looking after my folks I dont want to be in the same boat when it comes
to my old age. The plans are therefore not for sale but I hope it will not
be long before I get stills to market.
Ron if you are getting involved with ethanol production I would advise you
against involvement with a lot of the small alcohol stills out there for the
home distillation market as the majority of them were designed by people who
only have a limited knowledge of distillation with grossly inferior stills
resulting. (not to say that good quality stills will not come out of this
area eventually). Talk about Cowboys International. (probably not a good
thing to say to someone living in the States as I am sure there are many
hardworking, honest, and good cowboys there. In this part of the world the
word cowboy applied in this sense means something totally different: like
someone who is as rough as guts, takes no pride in his work, and in short is
a rip off artist). I suggest you download the two books Keith has on his
site and thoroughly read them. You will learn a lot from them in terms of
the basics. I would also search your local large city library with the help
of a good librarian who knows what she is doing. It is amazing what they can
turn up. They can also source books from other libraries. One good source
worth looking in is your local university Engineering  School Dept.
B.r.,  David


> >Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still
> >design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to
know
> >who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making
fuel
> >for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home
> >Distillation Handbook " By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good
> >plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need
good
> >details for construction purposes.
> >Thanks,
> >Ron Miller
> >Mobile , Alabama
>
> Hello Ron
>
> The Home Distillation Handbook is really for drinkers more than
> fuellers. You should do better with these (both full-text online,
> free access):
>
> Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html
>
> The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html
>
> There's currently a shortage of a good fuel alcohol still, sorry to
> say. The stills on offer are mostly for drink production and are too
> small. But we're working on it and should have some results soon.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>Thanks Keith,
>
>Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd
>forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have just
>copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm oil
>on a fairly large scale perhaps.
>
>Hanns

Hello Hanns

Good news. Start small! Please let us know your results, there's a 
lot of interest in palm oil, I keep getting asked about it.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

Thanks Keith,

Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd
forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have just
copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm oil
on a fairly large scale perhaps.

Hanns

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2001 9:32 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>This web site may be of interest to you
>http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
>Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing
>bio-d from high FFA feedstock.
>
>I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
>communicate?
>
>Hanns Wetzel

Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA
feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>,
>My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
>interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
>drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
>daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
>looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
>quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
>As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
>inexpensive.


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Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Aleksander <kac]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hey guys, ethanol is totally welcome here. we tend to get really 
intense on
> biodiesel at times, but if you are doing ethanol work (and many of 
you are)
> please, speak up.
> 
> 
> Steve Spence

Yeah, and even some us die-hard biodieselers are converting to 
ethanolers too(well, to become 'bireligional - is that the right 
term?).
We are fed up with the high methanol price and low winter efficiency 
of methyl esters. With ethanol we could make biodiesel as a real 
biofuel.

Cheers, Aleks


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Re: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[steve spence]

hey guys, ethanol is totally welcome here. we tend to get really intense on
biodiesel at times, but if you are doing ethanol work (and many of you are)
please, speak up.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
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- Original Message -
From: "ronald miller sr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Thanks a bunch
> Ron
> - Original Message -
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:38 PM
> Subject: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> > >Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an
> online
> > >discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive
great
> > >ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
> > >Thanks,
> > >Ron miller
> >
> > Hello Ron
> >
> > There are two distillers' groups, but they're into booze rather than
fuel.
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > Handmade Projects
> > Tokyo
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>   www.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Frank Wishart]

Hans
 I have emailed BDI and they have replied that they can not take any 
new enquires until they have reduced their backlog
Regards
Frank
  - Original Message - 
  From: Hanns B. Wetzel 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:42 PM
  Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


  This web site may be of interest to you
  http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
  Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing
  bio-d from high FFA feedstock.

  I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
  communicate?

  Hanns Wetzel

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [biofuel] Tallow


  ,
  My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
  interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
  drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
  daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
  looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
  quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
  As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
  inexpensive.






  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
  To unsubscribe, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still
>design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know
>who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel
>for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home
>Distillation Handbook " By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good
>plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good
>details for construction purposes.
>Thanks,
>Ron Miller
>Mobile , Alabama

Hello Ron

The Home Distillation Handbook is really for drinkers more than 
fuellers. You should do better with these (both full-text online, 
free access):

Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html

There's currently a shortage of a good fuel alcohol still, sorry to 
say. The stills on offer are mostly for drink production and are too 
small. But we're working on it and should have some results soon.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[ronald miller sr]

Hanns forgive me for mispelling your name and forgetting to give you my
e-mail address. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an
online
> discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great
> ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
> Thanks,
> Ron miller
> - Original Message -
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> > >This web site may be of interest to you
> > >http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
> > >Autrian company and they might give you some information about
producing
> > >bio-d from high FFA feedstock.
> > >
> > >I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
> > >communicate?
> > >
> > >Hanns Wetzel
> >
> > Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA
> > feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything.
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
> >
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > Handmade Projects
> > Tokyo
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> > >
> > >
> > >,
> > >My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> > >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> > >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> > >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> > >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> > >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> > >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> > >inexpensive.
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Re: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[ronald miller sr]

Thanks a bunch
Ron
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:38 PM
Subject: Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> >Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an
online
> >discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great
> >ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
> >Thanks,
> >Ron miller
>
> Hello Ron
>
> There are two distillers' groups, but they're into booze rather than fuel.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[ronald miller sr]

Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still
design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know
who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel
for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home
Distillation Handbook " By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good
plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good
details for construction purposes.
Thanks,
Ron Miller
Mobile , Alabama
- Original Message -
From: ronald miller sr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow


> Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an
online
> discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great
> ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
> Thanks,
> Ron miller
> - Original Message -
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> > >This web site may be of interest to you
> > >http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
> > >Autrian company and they might give you some information about
producing
> > >bio-d from high FFA feedstock.
> > >
> > >I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
> > >communicate?
> > >
> > >Hanns Wetzel
> >
> > Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA
> > feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything.
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
> >
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > Handmade Projects
> > Tokyo
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> > >
> > >
> > >,
> > >My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> > >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> > >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> > >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> > >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> > >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> > >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> > >inexpensive.
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>


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Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online
>discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great
>ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
>Thanks,
>Ron miller

Hello Ron

There are two distillers' groups, but they're into booze rather than fuel.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[ronald miller sr]

Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online
discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great
ideas. I enjoy reading the notes.
Thanks,
Ron miller
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


> >This web site may be of interest to you
> >http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
> >Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing
> >bio-d from high FFA feedstock.
> >
> >I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
> >communicate?
> >
> >Hanns Wetzel
>
> Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA
> feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything.
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> >
> >
> >,
> >My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> >inexpensive.
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

>This web site may be of interest to you
>http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
>Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing
>bio-d from high FFA feedstock.
>
>I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
>communicate?
>
>Hanns Wetzel

Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA 
feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>,
>My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
>interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
>drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
>daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
>looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
>quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
>As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
>inexpensive.


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Hanns B. Wetzel]

This web site may be of interest to you
http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an
Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing
bio-d from high FFA feedstock.

I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could
communicate?

Hanns Wetzel

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Tallow


,
My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
inexpensive.






Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[Greg Yohn]

Look out for a high freeze point, which may be unacceptable to your Winter
customers!
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 6:16 AM
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [biofuel] Tallow


  ,
  My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
  interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
  drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
  daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
  looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
  quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
  As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
  inexpensive.






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  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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