Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
My aunt has a prius in LA, California. Prius's can use the HOV lane there because of their environmental-friendlyness, but that's kinda ironic because she gets lower gas milage driving in the HOV lane (at higher speeds) than she did when she didn't (in stop-and-go bumper-to-bumper traffic). PaulOn 7/11/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: howdy Mike, here is a 110 mpg Priushttp://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/09/team-achieves-over-100-mpg-in-toyota-prius/ my prius gets about 53 mpg ave during mild weather and drops to the high40s in really cold weather- a month or two a year. Driving is a mix ofhighway and city. Highway speed is between 55 and 60. Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean.I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing:I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was:On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850.At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control.The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf.My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bobScience is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Paul Webber[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
90 kph give or take an angstrom. What's an angstrom between friends? lol Joe bob allen wrote: I got 54, but I just used .6 mi/km John Beale wrote: 55.925 mph? -John On Jul 12, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Joe Street wrote: I looked VERY closely into it and I find I get my best fuel economy while traveling at 250 angstroms per nanosecond. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I looked VERY closely into it and I find I get my best fuel economy while traveling at 250 angstroms per nanosecond. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
55.925 mph? -John On Jul 12, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Joe Street wrote: I looked VERY closely into it and I find I get my best fuel economy while traveling at 250 angstroms per nanosecond. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I got 54, but I just used .6 mi/km John Beale wrote: 55.925 mph? -John On Jul 12, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Joe Street wrote: I looked VERY closely into it and I find I get my best fuel economy while traveling at 250 angstroms per nanosecond. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
it might be added that losing the 10-25 lbs that the essay describes would likely require a combination of eating less and exercising more -- that is, there would be less weight in the car on the way home from the grocery store, less being shipped to restaurants and supermarkets (assuming that 78% of the population literally did diet) due to decreased consumption, and more bicycle riding and so forth in order to increase exercise. I understand that the author wanted to show only the difference that dropping the weight would make, but I feel that the two items go hand in hand. -John On Jul 10, 2006, at 10:33 PM, lres1 wrote: To a certain degree the engine revolutions pay a part in the economy of an average speed trial. At 55 if the engine is not under load but running at say 4,000 RPM it is not as efficient as the same vehicle and engine set up to run at 2,000 RPM. The Box Landrovers SI, SII SIIA and SIII with the 4 cylinder petrol engine were often run with the timing firing after TDC. This made them able to deliver real low down torque and thus operate well in 4 WD sandy or muddy conditions. However the cruising speed was easy at about 45, any higher and the engine was drinking fuel like it was gasping. Hence a lot of such landrovers were fitted with Overdrive units to reduce the cruising RPM and increase the cruising speed to 60. Was asked how to get better top speed from a VW on the highway and what was the cheapest way to do this. Fit larger diameter tyres within reason. Same for City driving smaller tyres. This changes the gear ratios and is cheap and easy to return to original or either side of standard. You will need to understand that the larger the tyre the higher the vehicle the less drag to the ground and thus the more instability. The lower the car the better the stability and adherence to the suction effect to the ground. Perhaps this is why in the last ten years 15 inch rims have become the norm and not so the older 14inch rims in many vehicles. Subaru run 15 inch in small cars, other go as high as 17 inch rims. True this gives low profile tyres but also increases the cruising speed a tad. Have never seen the statistics of a table of the air pressure in tyres at a set 60 MPH. At a set cruising speed what are the differences of starting at say 10PSI in the tyres and going in 5PSI steps up to 80 PSI. Have never seen a table that gives the optimum type pressure for speed in a standard every day driver such as VW or such. Is such a tabulation available some place? Tyres eat fuel and thus the pressure must be right to reduce this to a minimum but no manufacture mentions what pressure for economy, only safety or recommended pressures. The flex in the walls of a radial ply eat energy fast, is a heavier 8 ply wall better than a 2 ply wall for economy? Have not seen any where a formula for height to ground ratios that reduce drag? That is the optimum height if a car from the ground to have the least ground adherence and thus drag and friction as the wind is drawn over the car. Doug x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerJonathan Hardin/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerbiofuel@sustainablelists.org/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil/x-tad-bigger I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: > I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he > seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. > Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into > Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_susta
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan -- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src="" href="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
It is a good point that losing weight and increasing fuel efficiency go hand in hand. It seems that the heart of the issue is consumption. Kind of obvious but it does make sense. d-- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src="" href="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was: On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850. At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control. The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf. My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
there are diesel motorcycles around... Dylan wrote: What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan -- a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src= http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//a a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src=http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Most engine timing and even transmission timing (shift point) is now handled by computer. Some cars have sport mode and so on. Michael Redler wrote: Hi Jonathan, From what I can tell, there are few logical reasons for a 55mph speed limit. From a mileage point of view, the ratings on cars reported by the manufacturer are from tests performed at 49mph in order to legally mislead the public and make the numbers look more favorable. That would imply that, from a mileage point of view, 55 conserves fuel but is really just another shade of gray. Please don't misunderstand. I try to keep my Civic near 55 when I can, and I'm not necessarily against it but, I don't see the season for that particular number. As for safety, slower speeds don't necessarily save lives. The German Autobahn has no speed limit in most places but, has a fatality rate approximately 12% less than that of the US. I believe the statistic I read was per mile of highway. I apologize for not having my sources readily available. As far as transmission and engine timing is concerned, I think it depends on the manufacturer and the country of origin. For example BMW's are required to legitimately deliver on whatever the speedometer says they can. Mike */Jonathan Hardin [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I've been looking at taller tires. The car really needs a six speed, but tires will have to do. As soon as I smoke this clutch I'm bolting in a VR6 clutch and a six speed, but until then, it's tires. I guess I could just email Tirerack and ask them for the diameter? -Mike lres1 wrote: To a certain degree the engine revolutions pay a part in the economy of an average speed trial. At 55 if the engine is not under load but running at say 4,000 RPM it is not as efficient as the same vehicle and engine set up to run at 2,000 RPM. The Box Landrovers SI, SII SIIA and SIII with the 4 cylinder petrol engine were often run with the timing firing after TDC. This made them able to deliver real low down torque and thus operate well in 4 WD sandy or muddy conditions. However the cruising speed was easy at about 45, any higher and the engine was drinking fuel like it was gasping. Hence a lot of such landrovers were fitted with Overdrive units to reduce the cruising RPM and increase the cruising speed to 60. Was asked how to get better top speed from a VW on the highway and what was the cheapest way to do this. Fit larger diameter tyres within reason. Same for City driving smaller tyres. This changes the gear ratios and is cheap and easy to return to original or either side of standard. You will need to understand that the larger the tyre the higher the vehicle the less drag to the ground and thus the more instability. The lower the car the better the stability and adherence to the suction effect to the ground. Perhaps this is why in the last ten years 15 inch rims have become the norm and not so the older 14inch rims in many vehicles. Subaru run 15 inch in small cars, other go as high as 17 inch rims. True this gives low profile tyres but also increases the cruising speed a tad. Have never seen the statistics of a table of the air pressure in tyres at a set 60 MPH. At a set cruising speed what are the differences of starting at say 10PSI in the tyres and going in 5PSI steps up to 80 PSI. Have never seen a table that gives the optimum type pressure for speed in a standard every day driver such as VW or such. Is such a tabulation available some place? Tyres eat fuel and thus the pressure must be right to reduce this to a minimum but no manufacture mentions what pressure for economy, only safety or recommended pressures. The flex in the walls of a radial ply eat energy fast, is a heavier 8 ply wall better than a 2 ply wall for economy? Have not seen any where a formula for height to ground ratios that reduce drag? That is the optimum height if a car from the ground to have the least ground adherence and thus drag and friction as the wind is drawn over the car. Doug - Original Message - *From:* Jonathan Hardin mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
howdy Mike, here is a 110 mpg Prius http://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/09/team-achieves-over-100-mpg-in-toyota-prius/ my prius gets about 53 mpg ave during mild weather and drops to the high 40s in really cold weather- a month or two a year. Driving is a mix of highway and city. Highway speed is between 55 and 60. Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was: On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850. At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control. The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf. My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
There was a story about someone in Boston installing PV panels on his 1st generation Prius and using the juice to charge the battery. Be kind of cool to get a wrecked Prius and fiddle with the drive train. bob allen wrote: howdy Mike, here is a 110 mpg Prius http://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/09/team-achieves-over-100-mpg-in-toyota-prius/ my prius gets about 53 mpg ave during mild weather and drops to the high 40s in really cold weather- a month or two a year. Driving is a mix of highway and city. Highway speed is between 55 and 60. Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was: On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850. At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control. The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf. My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
There are some pretty good electric bikes about, made in Thailand, China, New Zealand and such. There are some fuel injected bikes that can be run on Ethanol. The costs of bikes being what they are, in the cheap small cc line, make them ideal for home "practices". My first attempt was an electric bike in the early 70"s. Electric's depend on distances and load carrying. Amazed the speed some of the "Razor" electricbikes get up to. The Jawa was run on Ethanol and caster oil as a dirt bike long before the Jap bikes got into the market real. My 350 Jawa, single carb twin cylinder,is not so easy to start on petrol and oil mix after a long period of sitting. Not sure how this would affect it if ethanol was used. Doug - Original Message - From: Dylan To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan-- a href=""http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86"img border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" src=""http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png"//aa href=""http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181"img border="0" alt="Get Thunderbird!" title="Get Thunderbird!" src=""http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png"//a -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Kawasaki has a 650cc diesel. Here it is. http://www.f1engineering.com/ Joe Dylan wrote: What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan -- a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src= http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//a a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src=http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
The Enfield Diesel made in India is not a bad looking machine, don't know how they handle but they seem quite okay. The petrol versions are used with all sorts of configurations. A few years back Enfield had to meet their domestic market before exports so they were pretty hard to come by in any form. Not sure now if policy has changed. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil there are diesel motorcycles around... Dylan wrote: What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan -- a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src= http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//a a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src=http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small. png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
And by peaks, I mean it is at a minimum On 7/11/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you look at the grams per horsepower hour consumption for the VW 1.9TDI you'll find that it peaks at 1900rpm under high manifold pressure. On 7/11/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean.I've calculatedthe modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I alwayscome back to the same thing:I don't really know whatI'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was:On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after theengine rpm's go past about 1850.At about 1850 rpm, the car is goingaround 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph onvery flat land w/ cruise control.The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph.I expect it would do better at 55.There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDIGolf.My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests thatused to be held were specially modified with gear rations andtransmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got thedrag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage ofoperating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture).Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and lowspeed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with acontinuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hardto drive.Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption variesdirectly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed).I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mphand I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag wouldbe just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote:for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote:I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limitingtop speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios onthe transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stickwith, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up toa 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curiousJonathan ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
If you look at the grams per horsepower hour consumption for the VW 1.9TDI you'll find that it peaks at 1900rpm under high manifold pressure.On 7/11/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean.I've calculatedthe modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I alwayscome back to the same thing:I don't really know whatI'm talking about.Actually, what I probably should have said was:On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after theengine rpm's go past about 1850.At about 1850 rpm, the car is goingaround 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph onvery flat land w/ cruise control.The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph.I expect it would do better at 55.There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDIGolf.My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the bestmileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests thatused to be held were specially modified with gear rations andtransmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got thedrag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage ofoperating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture).Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and lowspeed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with acontinuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hardto drive.Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption variesdirectly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed).I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mphand I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag wouldbe just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote:for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote:I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limitingtop speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios onthe transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stickwith, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up toa 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curiousJonathan ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I didn't know diesel bikes existed. brilliant! dOn 7/11/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And by peaks, I mean it is at a minimum On 7/11/06, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you look at the grams per horsepower hour consumption for the VW 1.9TDI you'll find that it peaks at 1900rpm under high manifold pressure. On 7/11/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean.I've calculatedthe modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I alwayscome back to the same thing:I don't really know whatI'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was:On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after theengine rpm's go past about 1850.At about 1850 rpm, the car is goingaround 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph onvery flat land w/ cruise control.The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph.I expect it would do better at 55.There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDIGolf.My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests thatused to be held were specially modified with gear rations andtransmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got thedrag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage ofoperating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture).Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and lowspeed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with acontinuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hardto drive.Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption variesdirectly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed).I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mphand I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag wouldbe just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote:for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote:I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limitingtop speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios onthe transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stickwith, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up toa 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curiousJonathan ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src=""
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Forgive me... my comments were a little broad, but i was referring to those who cannot fit into fuel efficient vehicles because they are overweight (hence, shedding fat for oil), height is a different matter entirely (which i, actually, hadn't thought of until you brought it up...thank you), and for those who require more legroom: the station wagon is an excellent choice because they are long enough and have considerably better fuel efficiency than SUV's or vans (which seem to be the other alternatives for people who have long legs). I have had good experiences with the Subaru Outback station wagon (32 mpg on the freeway during a weeklong roadtrip). So, i am sorry if i have offended. I suppose the real goal is to be more fuel conscious and do whatever we are able to to improve fuel efficiency and rid ourselves of the reliance on petroleum fuels. dylan On 7/9/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars.Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people.Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations.So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila!(that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity)My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's notobesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's notwide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually).It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of theseultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability toturn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least anddangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of mycoworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man).Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for areplacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only ayear younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It'salso a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety.So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true.-Kurt___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src="" href="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. Kurt Nolte wrote: Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars. Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people. Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations. So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila! (that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity) My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's not obesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's not wide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually). It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for a replacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only a year younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It's also a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety. So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Buy a mini and take out the driver's seat. Sit in the back seat. There was a famous athlete who did this. Joe Kurt Nolte wrote: Snip It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have a friend who is 6'6 and 300 lbs...he is struck in a Lincoln towncar... Kurt Nolte wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious JonathanOn 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
It's not just gear ratios, but also the tradeoff between rolling resistance and wind resistance. Obviously the worse the aerodynamics, the lower the optimum speed, no matter if the engine is regeared to operate at optimum efficiency point -- my schoolbus gets much better mileage at 35mph than 60mph because it's a brick. Most modern cars have alot better aerodynamics than ones from the 80's when we had the 55mph limit, so maybe it is higher now. I know that my VW (1991) is geared such that 55mph is pretty good for 4th gear, but 5th gear is pretty useless till you get to almost 75mph when it starts cruising right along again (which does drop the mileage to low 40's) ZekeJonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Hi Jonathan,From what I can tell, there are few logical reasons for a 55mph speed limit. From a mileage point of view, theratings on carsreported by the manufacturer arefrom tests performed at 49mph in order to legally mislead the public and make the numbers look more favorable. That would imply that, from a mileage point of view, 55 conserves fuel but is really just another shade of gray.Please don't misunderstand. I try to keep my Civic near 55 when I can, and I'm not necessarily against it but, I don't see the season for that particular number.As for safety, slower speeds don't necessarily save lives. The German Autobahn has no speed limit in most places but, has a fatality rate approximately 12% less than that of the US. I believethe statistic I read was per mile of highway.I apologize for not having my sources readily available.As far as transmission and engine timing is concerned, I think it depends on the manufacturer and the country of origin. For exampleBMW's are required tolegitimately deliver on whatever the speedometer says they can. MikeJonathan Hardin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1" and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3" and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
To a certain degree the engine revolutions pay a part in the economy of an average speed trial. At 55 if the engine is not under load but running at say 4,000 RPM it is not as efficient as the same vehicle and engine set up to run at 2,000 RPM. The "Box" Landrovers SI, SII SIIA and SIII with the 4 cylinder petrol engine were often run with the timing firing after TDC. This made them able to deliver real low down torque and thus operate well in 4 WD sandy or muddy conditions. However the cruising speed was easy at about 45, any higher and the engine was drinking fuel like it was gasping. Hence a lot of such landrovers were fitted with Overdrive units to reduce the cruising RPM and increase the cruising speed to 60. Was asked how to get better top speed from a VW on the highway and what was the cheapest way to do this. Fit larger diameter tyres within reason. Same for City driving smaller tyres. This changes the gear ratios and is cheap and easy to return to original or either side of standard. You will need to understand that the larger the tyre the higher the vehicle the less drag to the ground and thus the more instability. The lower the car the better the stability and adherence to the suction effect to the ground. Perhaps this is why in the last ten years 15 inch rims have become the norm and not so the older 14inch rims in many vehicles. Subaru run 15 inch in small cars, other go as high as 17 inch rims. True this gives low profile tyres but also increases the cruising speed a tad. Have never seen the statistics of a table of the air pressure in tyres at a set 60 MPH. At a set cruising speed what are the differences of starting at say 10PSI in the tyres and going in 5PSI steps up to 80 PSI. Have never seen a table that gives the optimum type pressure for speed in a standard every day driver such as VW or such. Is such a tabulation available some place? Tyres eat fuel and thus the pressure must be right to reduce this to a minimum but no manufacture mentions what pressure for economy, only safety or recommended pressures. The flex in the walls of a radial ply eat energy fast, is a heavier 8 plywall better than a 2 ply wall for economy? Have not seen any where a formula for height to ground ratios that reduce drag? That is the optimum height if a car from the ground to have the least ground adherence and thus drag and friction as the wind is drawn over the car. Doug - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hardin To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1" and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3" and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dang
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars. Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people. Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations. So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila! (that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity) Dylan -- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src="" href="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars. Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people. Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations. So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila! (that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity) My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's not obesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's not wide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually). It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for a replacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only a year younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It's also a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety. So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I agree with Kirk -a constructive thought. But in the interest of correctness Iwill point out two errors that folks need to be aware of: (1) The statement, "every 100 lbs in your vehicle increases your mpg by 2%...", should be, "...decreases mpg by 2%...". (2) bearing in mind that we are equating 100 lbs with a 2% change in mpg, the calculation in bullet #1 errs by ten-fold owing to an errant decimal point - in decimal notation 2% = 0.02, but that, remember, is the factor for 100 lbs; Jon Benson is now talking about the savings related to 1/10 that amount, or 10 lbs, hence the arithmetic should be 0.2% (=0.002, not 0.02). This reduces his reported savings by ten-fold. Although this ten-fold reduction in his potential savings is obviously substantial,I hasten to point outthat this reduced saving is still an impressive $798 million/yr. So I applaud Jon Benson for an innovative idea and I thank Kirk for bringing it to our attention. Now, for those among us who have the good fortune of weighing in at about where they graduated high school many years ago, there are two old tried and true, but now neglected,methods (by no means original with me) of significantly increasing our mpg - (1) limit top speed to 55 mph, and (2) keep it steady by using cruise control. My results in a 1989 Toyota Camry traveling several thousand miles over the past twelve months have shown an increase in mpg of 32 to 36 using these simple rules. This is a little over 10%. How does this stack up in the fuel savings equation? Use Jon's oil and gasoline usage facts and do the math yourself. It's impressive. These techniques are obviously suitable only for low traffic density freeway conditions. Safety should never be compromised. You can be sure that I don't do thisin three full lanes of fast-flowing traffic and a string of 75 mph 18-wheelers on my rear bumper. City traffic won't cut it either. On average I use these techniques for about half my mileage. Of course this reduces my overall mpg saving from 10% to about 5%. Apocryphal? Yes. Very real dollars in my pocket? Absolutely. Try it yourself and report your results here. Best wishes to allfor improved fuel efficiency, Oregon Bob - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil definitely a constructive thought Kirk http://www.fitover40.com/newsletter/ I really do not care what your personal political agenda may be. It is none of my business, and this is not a political forum. However, oil and war is not much of a political bombshell. They go together like bread and butter. The current situation in Iraq, in the view of many, is another war for oil. Others feel differently. You are entitled to your own view, be it left, right, or merely confused as to where left and right ran off to. The media can do that to a person. The fact remains that we have seen war for oil, money, land, you name it. Today I want to pick on oil. Even if you feel that our place in Iraq has nothing whatsoever in the slightest to do with oil, you would probably admit that saving our natural resources is a decent idea. Oil is not self-replenishing, now is it? Are there any dinosaurs left that I do not know about? Good. I was just making sure Jurassic Park was indeed a work of fiction. I realize there are some who believe that oil is not a fossil fuel. However, I am running with the majority of geologists on this one, as well as on the assumption that if the minority are wrong, we are history. It seems a safe place to play. What if I told you that we could reduce our imported crude oil by twenty percent per year without so much as a political sanction or the ride your bike more often approach? You have heard the phrase, shedding blood for oil, right? Well, here is my new agenda: shedding fat for oil. I am not suggesting body fat as an alternative fuel source, although it would give the liposuction clinics and interesting selling spin. I am referring to the simple matter of weight. Not the weight of our cars, although a billion Hummers is probably not a wise idea, but rather the weight of those driving them. Those riding in the front and back seat. The people who pay the loans and sell the Hummers. I am talking about you, and that guy I see in the mirror every morning. And, I am talking about a measly ten pounds. If every American who needed to drop ten pounds of useless fat did so, we would completely cease the need for importing oil from the Middle East. I am not joking. This is not a rant on the Middle East, but rather a step in the right direction to a more environmentally-friendly world. Is that claim rather hard to believe? Good! Get your calculators out and prepare for a fun lesson in mathematical accountability. For all of you who
