Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Internal Combustion Engine? Take a gander at an old hot rod magazine from the early 80's by Henry (Smokey) Yunick from Daytona FL. Had an interesting Expander Cycle engine he worked up. 200 hp, 60mpg, on a 2.2 liter Iron Duke 4 cylinder. From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] back to basics Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:29:49 +1200 Hi Tim, Sorry I cant help and must plead ignorance. What is an ICE? Also re seals I am sure there is someone far more knowledgeable than me who has had hands on experience with the Cummins. If you are trying to get more mpg I suggest you research some of the patents that have been filed over the last 50 years in relation to high mileage etc especially those that have been bought up or are held by oil companies. When I was a child there was heaps of information, some somewhat limited, other stuff that was far more explicit in popular American and other magazines such as Popular Mecanics, Scientific American, and even the good old Readers Digest. Somewhere I have a list of Patents held by people such as the oil companies. I am sure if a number of people did searches they would be amazed with what they come up with. One things for sure there is not that many things out there that have not been done before in some alternative fashion. My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or heard of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram that gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the cruise control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't see being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon. If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be any problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals or lines to withstand the fuel?~~anyone? Cant comment on generators in the States either. Am aware that there is a brand called Onan which a lot of people use there but know nothing about size or any other details. Have a search for them on the net using a multiple search engine and you should have some luck. Also have a look on Steve Spences webpages as I am sure he has got some info on electricity there as well. B.r., David In the meantime, I am looking for 1) a generator(8 to 65 KW) that would eventually power my home, and be run by 2) either a bioD from a small truck/car, or ethanol either of which I plan to brew here at home in Sunny Florida(Tampa--HIYA Jerry D:) ~~ Anybody gets any leads on these lil toys--I'd SUUURE appreciate knowing where to look! _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Back to basics
Like I said before a lack of atmospheric pressure is (vacuum) which will work the fogger? Does anyone know if biodiesel needs to be washed if mixed 50/50 with regular diesel fuel, and if you wash it can isopropyl alc. be used instead boiling the fuel to remove final water content? Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Thanks Steve, I sometimes dont make the most obvious connections when it comes to abbreviations. B.r., David Internal Combustion Engine? Take a gander at an old hot rod magazine from the early 80's by Henry (Smokey) Yunick from Daytona FL. Had an interesting Expander Cycle engine he worked up. 200 hp, 60mpg, on a 2.2 liter Iron Duke 4 cylinder. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
In a message dated 4/30/01 8:21:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Meanwhile, let's figure out how to physically tap into this pressure source without spoiling any expensive bits. How much pressure is there in the exhaust? How does it vary with revs and throttle setting? Is it enough, too much or what? Easy! Drill a hole in the exhaust pipe between manifold and muffler, install a fitting and pressure guage. If it doesnt work out, put a screw in the hole. Testing ex. back-pressure in an ice car is common, and kits that do this are available. Prssure will be fairly linear with load and RPM, with none at idle. ( This is what I see on gas cars, and I'll bet $5 its the same on diesels) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
seems it would be easy to attach a pressure guage to the exhaust and find out. Note that in a turbocharged engine, the intake prussure goes from negative yo positive as the turbo spools up under load; i have read about ethanol injection to cool intake temp and use ethanol / water mixes at all concentrations simply by using intake pressure to feed eth into the intake at high load/throttle caonditions. very simple and elegant, produces the desired effect at the desired time without any control system besides a small tube run to the tank, which must be sealed and withstand turbo pressure (usually 6 psi, probably never more than 15 psi). anton -- From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] back to basics Date: Apr 30, 2001, 8:18 AM Ben, That's a smart idea, but I'll bet somebody will come along with all the reasons why not. Meanwhile, let's figure out how to physically tap into this pressure source without spoiling any expensive bits. How much pressure is there in the exhaust? How does it vary with revs and throttle setting? Is it enough, too much or what? David T. With no vacuum available, why not install a tap in the exhaust and run it to a sealed container of the fluid to be fogged into the intake? The exhaust pressure would presumably be 0 at idle and go up with engine speed and load, so you could easily tailor the delivery. This is how fuel is delivered on my Radio controlled car. Actually, although exhaust pressure is used on model cars and 'planes, this is only to reduce the effect of tank surge; the primary fuel delivery force is still the venturi. Try disconnecting the exhaust pressure pipe; it doesn't make all that much difference to mixture. Peugeot and some other diesels recycle a proportion of exhaust gas back into the induction side under certain conditions to reduce NOx formation. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Back to basics
That's because if you figure the plates have about 72^2 of surface area and atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi then the atmosphere is holding the plates together with 1058 pounds of force. .. Alan, That's 1,058 #s external pressure. But there is also negative pressure between the plates Doesn't this mean that (external pressure x external surface area) + (internal negative pressure x internal surface area) = total force needed to sever the two plates? Or, if that logic isn't right, wouldn't the vacuum have to be complete - 0 atmospheres - in order for the entire atmospheric pressure of 1,058 #s to be required to sever the plates? Doesn't help that there are no leverage points for hands to grasp onto. With that thought, it might only take a pressure differential of maybe a pound or two (?) to keep the jocks from victory. Just thinkin'. Not trying to be critical. So which working theory is correct? Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
David, I was intrigued by your father's story (I really enjoy hearing family stories I think there are important lessons to still be learned from our older generations.) My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or heard of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram that gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the cruise control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't see being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon. If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be any problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals or lines to withstand the fuel?~~anyone? In the meantime, I am looking for 1) a generator(8 to 65 KW) that would eventually power my home, and be run by 2) either a bioD from a small truck/car, or ethanol either of which I plan to brew here at home in Sunny Florida(Tampa--HIYA Jerry D:) ~~ Anybody gets any leads on these lil toys--I'd SUUURE appreciate knowing where to look! Great list! I enjoy reading everyone's posts, and hope to be able to actually contribute some useful info of my own someday soon. Thanks. -Tim Z - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] back to basics From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: fogger questions I am located at 36.6 degrees South and also at sea level. *south island ? No North Island, 40 km by road north of Auckland on the Whangaparaoa Peninsular. I look directly south across the water and can see the sky tower from my windows which is only 22-23 km in a straight line. Auckland because it is close to the sea and because it is almost 1000 miles from Australia unfortunately has a fairly high R.H. Suspect this is why when the A.A here tested this device initially the improvements wernt all that great and as a result wernt madly enthusiastic about it. Rang them yesterday and the technical guy I spoke to basically confirmed this. He was however knowledgeable about the effects of moisture or water on engines and quickly pointed out without me saying anything that any engine would run that much cleaner and the oil would also be that much cleaner. You would also get no carbon build up on top of the piston or in the ring grooves. This agrees with Novaks findings and your own experience. He said the effects of the device would be greater on the earlier low compression vehicles but didnt think the device would be that great or was warranted on late model vehicles which run on much higher compression and a lot of which are turbocharged. While this is possibly true I am not sure I thoroughly agree with him. As I understand it the moist air produces more efficient fuel burning by atomizing the gazoline droplets and lowering the fuels temperature. My understanding of this point is that at the lower initial detonation point you get much better and more complete combustion resulting in much less unburnt emmissions and soot. On this point I believe the device is worth fitting for this reason alone. * O.T. Suprisingly he was the first NZ employee ever of the Standard Oil Company. Possibly one of the reasons and how he ended up in Bolivia I would imagine. When he was 16 he came home at the end of the year from Nelson Boys College where he had been going to school, on the Friday night ferry to Wellington expecting to have the summer off before finding a job, only to be told by my grandfather Right Ive got you a job You start Monday. No ifs or buts. In those days you did what you were told. My grandfather was rather autocratic, used to having his own way, and someone you didnt argue with. In those days he was Cheif Cashier of the BNZ and Manager of the main Wellington branch of the Bank of NZ. (In those days the BNZ still had something like 95% of the NZ banking business). Apparently he had been visited in the afternoon or the day before by one of the bigwigs from Standard who had been sent out to set up a NZ office and who mentioned to my grandfather that he wanted an office boy whereupon my grandfather had said Ive got just the boy for you and his wages will be one pound or thirty bob a week. (whatever it was in those days.) Nothing like a bit of nepotism is there? Believe my father stood it for a couple of years or so and then rebelled. Probably why he always retained a real stubborn streak and ended up in South America. Believe the Chaco war like the Spanish Civil war was one of the places the Germans tested some of their aircraft prior to the Second World War. Was told by someone and my mother told me he had talked to her about it once although he never talked about it himself that he had taken out an aircraft that was attacking his troops with one very
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Tim Zarbo wrote: David, My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or heard of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram that gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the cruise control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't see being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon. If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be any problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals or lines to withstand the fuel?~~anyone? I used water injection on my car for years. (An Edelbrock Vari-Jection System.) The last project I built was a 5.7 liter Chevy V 8 that ran on propane, and the water injection kept the thing from detonating at part load. (It had compression pressures in excess of 200 psi on most of its cylinders!) Unfortunately, I was testing the device one day and accidentally squirted a bit of water into the manifold when the engine wasn't running. When I cranked the machine over the next morning, it went BANG! I ended up with a bent connecting rod! Be careful with water injection! robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Hi Tim, Sorry I cant help and must plead ignorance. What is an ICE? Also re seals I am sure there is someone far more knowledgeable than me who has had hands on experience with the Cummins. If you are trying to get more mpg I suggest you research some of the patents that have been filed over the last 50 years in relation to high mileage etc especially those that have been bought up or are held by oil companies. When I was a child there was heaps of information, some somewhat limited, other stuff that was far more explicit in popular American and other magazines such as Popular Mecanics, Scientific American, and even the good old Readers Digest. Somewhere I have a list of Patents held by people such as the oil companies. I am sure if a number of people did searches they would be amazed with what they come up with. One things for sure there is not that many things out there that have not been done before in some alternative fashion. My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or heard of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram that gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the cruise control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't see being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon. If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be any problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals or lines to withstand the fuel?~~anyone? Cant comment on generators in the States either. Am aware that there is a brand called Onan which a lot of people use there but know nothing about size or any other details. Have a search for them on the net using a multiple search engine and you should have some luck. Also have a look on Steve Spences webpages as I am sure he has got some info on electricity there as well. B.r., David In the meantime, I am looking for 1) a generator(8 to 65 KW) that would eventually power my home, and be run by 2) either a bioD from a small truck/car, or ethanol either of which I plan to brew here at home in Sunny Florida(Tampa--HIYA Jerry D:) ~~ Anybody gets any leads on these lil toys--I'd SUUURE appreciate knowing where to look! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Robert, Point taken and noted. Which brings me to another point. Has anyone out there ever had anything to do with Ray Covey's Vapour Carburetion Conversion Systems? Do they know much about them and did they ever really work properly? Believe with the Mark 5 system he managed to obtain something like 72 mpg (US gal = 3.785Litres) with a V8. This equates to 19 miles per litre or just over 30 km per litre. Perhaps it is time for people to look at this aspect again. I am sure with the rapid developments in modern computers a lot of these old ideas might enjoy a new lease of life with vast improvements easily obtainable in the right hands. B.r., David I used water injection on my car for years. (An Edelbrock Vari-Jection System.) The last project I built was a 5.7 liter Chevy V 8 that ran on propane, and the water injection kept the thing from detonating at part load. (It had compression pressures in excess of 200 psi on most of its cylinders!) Unfortunately, I was testing the device one day and accidentally squirted a bit of water into the manifold when the engine wasn't running. When I cranked the machine over the next morning, it went BANG! I ended up with a bent connecting rod! Be careful with water injection! robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
Thanks for THAT tip Robert!! I'll remember that! -TZ - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] back to basics Tim Zarbo wrote: David, My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or heard of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram that gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the cruise control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't see being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon. If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be any problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals or lines to withstand the fuel?~~anyone? I used water injection on my car for years. (An Edelbrock Vari-Jection System.) The last project I built was a 5.7 liter Chevy V 8 that ran on propane, and the water injection kept the thing from detonating at part load. (It had compression pressures in excess of 200 psi on most of its cylinders!) Unfortunately, I was testing the device one day and accidentally squirted a bit of water into the manifold when the engine wasn't running. When I cranked the machine over the next morning, it went BANG! I ended up with a bent connecting rod! Be careful with water injection! robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] back to basics
In a message dated 04/30/2001 5:37:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *now, if you were to add a venturi tube BEFORE the throttle plate, you would have a source of vacuum to operate your fogger with. but this, although feasible, is not a simple as connecting the fogger into the engine's induction system , on the engine side of the throttle plate. With no vacuum available, why not install a tap in the exhaust and run it to a sealed container of the fluid to be fogged into the intake? The exhaust pressure would presumably be 0 at idle and go up with engine speed and load, so you could easily tailor the delivery. This is how fuel is delivered on my Radio controlled car. HTH Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
