Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Before the catalytic reaction process, methanol was made from the destructive distillation of wood, or making charcoal and distillation / condensing of the gasses given off in the process. A very time consuming and un-efficient process, I think that it was on the order of 1 gal of mixed liquid ( mostly methanol ) for every 100 lbs. of wood, and cost about $10.00 a gal. ( before the catalytic process ) when reasonably pure. The catalytic process is doable on the village level, but, is still expensive compared to the large scale production. I was checking into this when I first joined the list, and there was a book that I had some information from (about a farmer that made a farm scale plant ) that I mentioned, it should be in the list archives. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 00:14 Subject: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production > This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night > looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in > looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting > glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel > methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google > searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- > biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few > months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the > biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious > now about where that project has gone. > Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial > ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of > questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant > didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in > california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using > good oil. > If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is > pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no > oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting > waste for ethanol production. > > I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on > a village (small business?) scale? > > mark > > > > In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the > > biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been > discussing the > > possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and > > ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in > California - > > lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an > internal > > production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps > not hard > > to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any > woody > > material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any > yeast > > that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that > do. You > > would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. > > > > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: > > > > > Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard > would > > > it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- > product of > > > ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of > pectin, > > > is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? > > > > > > > > > > > > -BRAH > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Once upon a time it was created with CH4 + O and a chromium or copper catalyst. High pressure and temperatures were needed, that's why even the big plants use syngas now. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Daniel West wrote: >Hi mark, >as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O >into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not >state of the art. We were talking one time about >that and decied not to follow the theme (also it >seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). >If you find something new to that theme let me know. >To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: >reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and >H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also >need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. >I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol >are more easier - from wood or as by-product from >making alcohol, ... . > >daniel > >girl_mark_fire schrieb: > > >>This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night >>looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in >>looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting >>glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel >>methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google >>searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- >>biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few >>months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the >>biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious >>now about where that project has gone. >>Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial >>ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of >>questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant >>didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in >>california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using >>good oil. >>If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is >>pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no >>oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting >>waste for ethanol production. >> >> I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on >>a village (small business?) scale? >> >>mark >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Hi mark, as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not state of the art. We were talking one time about that and decied not to follow the theme (also it seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). If you find something new to that theme let me know. To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol are more easier - from wood or as by-product from making alcohol, ... . daniel girl_mark_fire schrieb: > This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night > looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in > looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting > glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel > methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google > searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- > biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few > months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the > biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious > now about where that project has gone. > Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial > ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of > questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant > didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in > california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using > good oil. > If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is > pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no > oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting > waste for ethanol production. > > I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on > a village (small business?) scale? > > mark > > > > In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>Hello, >>I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the >>biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been > > discussing the > >>possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and >>ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in > > California - > >>lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an > > internal > >>production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps > > not hard > >>to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any > > woody > >>material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any > > yeast > >>that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that > > do. You > >>would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. >> >>On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: >> >> >>>Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard >> > would > >>>it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- >> > product of > >>>ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of >> > pectin, > >>>is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? >>> >>> >>> >>>-BRAH >>> >>> >>> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Biofuels list archives: >>>http://archive.nnytech.net/ >>> >>>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >>>To unsubscribe, send an email to: >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> > Service. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Mit freundlichen Gr§en Daniel West __ Zentrum fr Sonnenenergie- und Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW) Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG) Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research Renewable Fuels and Processes Netzwerk "Regenerative Kraftstoffe" - ReFuelNet Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West Industriestr. 6, D-70565 Stuttgart Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200 eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zsw-bw.de http://www.refuelnet.de __ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> B
