Re: Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth
Politicians tend to learn slowly, the hard way, as the New Zealanders found recently when they switched to proportional representation. After being corrected by the voters a few times, they change their ways. It's a bit like the legendary farmer with his Missouri mule and two-by-four. You have to get their attention. It's noticeable right now in Canada that the two leading parties are eager to get out of the current minority government siutation and back to single party majority government, as soon as they think they can win an election under our current first-past-the-post electoral system. I notice also in Ireland and New Zealand under proportional representation that the ruling parties don't mind a stable minority government in preference to a coalition. Before the last elections in New Zealand and the Irish Republic, polls showed that *the voters* did not want a single-party majority government but preferred a coalition. In Ireland this even extended to the supporters of the biggest party (Fianna Fail) which has formed single-party majority governments in the past. I have been told of a similar poll result in Germany. It looks as if the voters dislike friendly dictatorships. In most European countries it sems that the politicians have learned to co-operate enough to get along in a coalition government. It might not be all that hard in the U.S. One can imagine that more centrist presidents would be produced by say an electoral college elected by PR-STV and electing the President by IRV, plus two houses of Congress elected by PR-STV. Sometimes Congress acts like it was composed of four or five parties now. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote: One side note: I wonder what would happen if we had a coalition government, required to play nice with six or eight political parties and forced to negotiate our differences. As it is, we have difficulty with only two. :-) Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from Political Switzerland, a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro Helvetia, 1997): The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from among the Federal Council members. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth
Thanks Doug, I think nitpicking (as you say) is allowed in this forum. It's always good to have someone around who is interested in checking the details. The only additional thing I would encourage is to look for what can't be found in print. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting and sometimes required a plane ticket. One side note: I wonder what would happen if we had a coalition government, required to play nice with six or eight political parties and forced to negotiate our differences. As it is, we have difficulty with only two. :-) Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from Political Switzerland, a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro Helvetia, 1997): The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from among the Federal Council members. Ever since 1944, the [party] composition of the government has remained the same... The Federal Council is elected by Parliament every four years (both chambers meet in the National Council Hall)... The meetings of the Federal Council are chaired by the President of the Confederation who is elected for one year only from among the Federal Councillors. He is thus something in the nature of a prime Minister ad interim whose office consists first and foremost of chairing the meetings of the Federal Council and performing certain representative duties. During his year as president he also continues to be head of his own department. Switzerland has no actual head of state. When a foreign head of state, or even a queen, visits Berne [the capital of Switzerland], they are usually received by all seven members of the Federal Council. Each member of the Federal Council is the head of a department, or of what would be known abroad as a ministry. There are just seven such departments in Switzerland, so that each head of department is responsible for several sub-divisions which usually correspond to several ministries abroad. The Swiss Parliament, the Federal Assembly, is made up of two chambers: the National Council, with 200 members, and the Council of States, with 46 members [2 per canton = U.S. state or Canadian province]. The Assembly is elected by proportional representation. In 1995 it contained four relatively large parties and 8 small ones. Since the party composition of the government hasn't changed since 1944 and elections are likely to affect only personalities and particular measures, the turnout for elections to the Assembly tends to be low; 42.2% in 1995. By petition of 50,000 citizens within 90 days of the passage of a law, it may be required to be ratified by a referendum. In the cantons, proposals for laws may be put forward by a petition to be submitted to a referendum. The Federal Constitution is also subject to change through an initiative by petition of 100,000 citizens, followed by a referendum. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote: ...for what it's worth, My grandmother's house is only 400+ years old. Freudian slip? :-) Michael Redler wrote:Hi Kieth, There's a lot of stuff you threw out there. To address it all would take a heck of a lot of time -- suffice to say that I agree with most of it. Switzerland: If part of it's government was based on the US constitution, you wouldn't know it. It gained it's Independence over 700 years ago and I think they had it pretty much nailed down before Jefferson put pen to paper. I visited my grandmother two weeks ago as I've done almost every year since I was an infant. Her 700+ year old house is a testament to their cautious attitude toward progress (I'm alluding to housing development). You are right about voting. Before my Aunt could build her new house, it had to be approved by those in her neighborhood. She, in fact, had to build a stick frame of the house to show its size and shape and offer a visual aid for all who would approve it (or not). Presidents: They have seven of them, representing all of the regions of the confederation. Since Switzerland has four national languages, They are usually fluent in two or three of them (German French Italian and Rhetto-Romanish). This makes me wonder about the whole one nation, one language thing. I don't want to go on too long -- especially since I think you already did a great job covering much of this. I just wanted to offer some perspective as a witness to quite another interpretation of democracy. I sometimes see my relatives and the country they live in with envy. This is a country that hasn't experienced war within its borders since the crossbow was the weapon of choice. They have a well organized, cohesive government where you don't have to own a car and you would be hard-pressed to find a hungry child -- all of this while the language (and sometimes culture) can change within a thirty
Re: Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth
Hi, Hi Mike, et. al., Well if we had more choices there might be less of a need for negative voting. What I mean is that it seems like a long long time since either of the two parties have put up candidates whom I wanted to vote for. Rather, I find myself voting for the one I least dislike. Derek -- Original message -- From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Doug, I think nitpicking (as you say) is allowed in this forum. It's always good to have someone around who is interested in checking the details. The only additional thing I would encourage is to look for what can't be found in print. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting and sometimes required a plane ticket. One side note: I wonder what would happen if we had a coalition government, required to play nice with six or eight political parties and forced to negotiate our differences. As it is, we have difficulty with only two. :-) Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from Political Switzerland, a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro Helvetia, 1997): The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from among the Federal Council members. Ever since 1944, the [party] composition of the government has remained the same... The Federal Council is elected by Parliament every four years (both chambers meet in the National Council Hall)... The meetings of the Federal Council are chaired by the President of the Confederation who is elected for one year only from among the Federal Councillors. He is thus something in the nature of a prime Minister ad interim whose office consists first and foremost of chairing the meetings of the Federal Council and performing certain representative duties. During his year as president he also continues to be head of his own department. Switzerland has no actual head of state. When a foreign head of state, or even a queen, visits Berne [the capital of Switzerland], they are usually received by all seven members of the Federal Council. Each member of the Federal Council is the head of a department, or of what would be known abroad as a ministry. There are just seven such departments in Switzerland, so that each head of department is responsible for several sub-divisions which usually correspond to several ministries abroad. The Swiss Parliament, the Federal Assembly, is made up of two chambers: the National Council, with 200 members, and the Council of States, with 46 members [2 per canton = U.S. state or Canadian province]. The Assembly is elected by proportional representation. In 1995 it contained four relatively large parties and 8 small ones. Since the party composition of the government hasn't changed since 1944 and elections are likely to affect only personalities and particular measures, the turnout for elections to the Assembly tends to be low; 42.2% in 1995. By petition of 50,000 citizens within 90 days of the passage of a law, it may be required to be ratified by a referendum. In the cantons, proposals for laws may be put forward by a petition to be submitted to a referendum. The Federal Constitution is also subject to change through an initiative by petition of 100,000 citizens, followed by a referendum. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote: ...for what it's worth, My grandmother's house is only 400+ years old. Freudian slip? :-) Michael Redler wrote:Hi Kieth, There's a lot of stuff you threw out there. To address it all would take a heck of a lot of time -- suffice to say that I agree with most of it. Switzerland: If part of it's government was based on the US constitution, you wouldn't know it. It gained it's Independence over 700 years ago and I think they had it pretty much nailed down before Jefferson put pen to paper. I visited my grandmother two weeks ago as I've done almost every year since I was an infant. Her 700+ year old house is a testament to their cautious attitude toward progress (I'm alluding to housing development). You are right about voting. Before my Aunt could build her new house, it had to be approved by those in her neighborhood. She, in fact, had to build a stick frame of the house to show its size and shape and offer a visual aid for all who would approve it (or not). Presidents: They have seven of them, representing all of the regions of the confederation. Since Switzerland has four national languages, They are usually fluent in two or three of them (German French Italian and Rhetto-Romanish). This makes me wonder about the whole one nation, one language thing. I don't want to go on too long -- especially since I think you already did a great job covering much of this.
Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth
With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from Political Switzerland, a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro Helvetia, 1997): The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from among the Federal Council members. Ever since 1944, the [party] composition of the government has remained the same... The Federal Council is elected by Parliament every four years (both chambers meet in the National Council Hall)... The meetings of the Federal Council are chaired by the President of the Confederation who is elected for one year only from among the Federal Councillors. He is thus something in the nature of a prime Minister ad interim whose office consists first and foremost of chairing the meetings of the Federal Council and performing certain representative duties. During his year as president he also continues to be head of his own department. Switzerland has no actual head of state. When a foreign head of state, or even a queen, visits Berne [the capital of Switzerland], they are usually received by all seven members of the Federal Council. Each member of the Federal Council is the head of a department, or of what would be known abroad as a ministry. There are just seven such departments in Switzerland, so that each head of department is responsible for several sub-divisions which usually correspond to several ministries abroad. The Swiss Parliament, the Federal Assembly, is made up of two chambers: the National Council, with 200 members, and the Council of States, with 46 members [2 per canton = U.S. state or Canadian province]. The Assembly is elected by proportional representation. In 1995 it contained four relatively large parties and 8 small ones. Since the party composition of the government hasn't changed since 1944 and elections are likely to affect only personalities and particular measures, the turnout for elections to the Assembly tends to be low; 42.2% in 1995. By petition of 50,000 citizens within 90 days of the passage of a law, it may be required to be ratified by a referendum. In the cantons, proposals for laws may be put forward by a petition to be submitted to a referendum. The Federal Constitution is also subject to change through an initiative by petition of 100,000 citizens, followed by a referendum. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote: ...for what it's worth, My grandmother's house is only 400+ years old. Freudian slip? :-) Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Kieth, There's a lot of stuff you threw out there. To address it all would take a heck of a lot of time -- suffice to say that I agree with most of it. Switzerland: If part of it's government was based on the US constitution, you wouldn't know it. It gained it's Independence over 700 years ago and I think they had it pretty much nailed down before Jefferson put pen to paper. I visited my grandmother two weeks ago as I've done almost every year since I was an infant. Her 700+ year old house is a testament to their cautious attitude toward progress (I'm alluding to housing development). You are right about voting. Before my Aunt could build her new house, it had to be approved by those in her neighborhood. She, in fact, had to build a stick frame of the house to show its size and shape and offer a visual aid for all who would approve it (or not). Presidents: They have seven of them, representing all of the regions of the confederation. Since Switzerland has four national languages, They are usually fluent in two or three of them (German French Italian and Rhetto-Romanish). This makes me wonder about the whole one nation, one language thing. I don't want to go on too long -- especially since I think you already did a great job covering much of this. I just wanted to offer some perspective as a witness to quite another interpretation of democracy. I sometimes see my relatives and the country they live in with envy. This is a country that hasn't experienced war within its borders since the crossbow was the weapon of choice. They have a well organized, cohesive government where you don't have to own a car and you would be hard-pressed to find a hungry child -- all of this while the language (and sometimes culture) can change within a thirty minute walk. Mike [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth
Thanks for this post. I found it very enlightening. AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA * If you think you are too small to make a difference try sleeping with a mosquito. Dalai Lama * Experience is the comb that nature gives us when we are bald. Belgian proverb * - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Swiss government: was Re: [Biofuel] OOPS (typo) -- sorry Kieth With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from Political Switzerland, a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro Helvetia, 1997): The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from among the Federal Council members. Ever since 1944, the [party] composition of the government has remained the same... The Federal Council is elected by Parliament every four years (both chambers meet in the National Council Hall)... The meetings of the Federal Council are chaired by the President of the Confederation who is elected for one year only from among the Federal Councillors. He is thus something in the nature of a prime Minister ad interim whose office consists first and foremost of chairing the meetings of the Federal Council and performing certain representative duties. During his year as president he also continues to be head of his own department. Switzerland has no actual head of state. When a foreign head of state, or even a queen, visits Berne [the capital of Switzerland], they are usually received by all seven members of the Federal Council. Each member of the Federal Council is the head of a department, or of what would be known abroad as a ministry. There are just seven such departments in Switzerland, so that each head of department is responsible for several sub-divisions which usually correspond to several ministries abroad. The Swiss Parliament, the Federal Assembly, is made up of two chambers: the National Council, with 200 members, and the Council of States, with 46 members [2 per canton = U.S. state or Canadian province]. The Assembly is elected by proportional representation. In 1995 it contained four relatively large parties and 8 small ones. Since the party composition of the government hasn't changed since 1944 and elections are likely to affect only personalities and particular measures, the turnout for elections to the Assembly tends to be low; 42.2% in 1995. By petition of 50,000 citizens within 90 days of the passage of a law, it may be required to be ratified by a referendum. In the cantons, proposals for laws may be put forward by a petition to be submitted to a referendum. The Federal Constitution is also subject to change through an initiative by petition of 100,000 citizens, followed by a referendum. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote: ...for what it's worth, My grandmother's house is only 400+ years old. Freudian slip? :-) Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Kieth, There's a lot of stuff you threw out there. To address it all would take a heck of a lot of time -- suffice to say that I agree with most of it. Switzerland: If part of it's government was based on the US constitution, you wouldn't know it. It gained it's Independence over 700 years ago and I think they had it pretty much nailed down before Jefferson put pen to paper. I visited my grandmother two weeks ago as I've done almost every year since I was an infant. Her 700+ year old house is a testament to their cautious attitude toward progress (I'm alluding to housing development). You are right about voting. Before my Aunt could build her new house, it had to be approved by those in her neighborhood. She, in fact, had to build a stick frame of the house to show its size and shape and offer a visual aid for all who would approve it (or not). Presidents: They have seven of them, representing all of the regions of the confederation. Since Switzerland has four national languages, They are usually fluent in two or three of them (German French Italian and Rhetto-Romanish). This makes me wonder about the whole one nation, one language thing. I don't want to go on too long -- especially since I think you already did a great job covering much of this. I just wanted to offer some perspective as a witness to quite another interpretation of democracy. I sometimes see my relatives and the country they live in with envy. This is a country that hasn't experienced war within its borders since the crossbow was the weapon of choice. They have a well organized, cohesive government where you don't have to own a car and you would be hard-pressed to find a hungry child -- all of this while