[svg-developers] [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech 2005

2005-05-27 Thread Ronan Oger
Hi, SVG Developers,

I gave a SVG/Perl talk at XTech 2005 (XML Europe) on Thursday about 
template-driven business graphs in SVG using Perl. I'll post the talk somewhere 
when I get the chance and pass on the url here.

While I was there, I took advantage to meet with the Mozilla dev team who were 
there in force demonstrating XUL/SVG interaction on Mozilla.

On Thursday afternoon, there was a Mozilla BOF meeting and I managed to get SVG 
support on the table.

Here is therefore the latest SVG Mozilla news:

1/ Nightly builds of the SVG 1.1 can be downloaded from the ftp site below 
(these may be unstable and are not yet considered Alpha level)

 ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/

 These builds support SVG. Notice, there is a selection switch in the options 
(somewhere) that turns on and off native SVG so you can also use the Adobe 
browser within the application for comparison.


The Firefox 1.1 alpha 1 release Deer Park also supports SVG and will
 be out any day. Week(s), not month(s).


2/ SVG in Mozilla will support http and XML methods, but will not provide 
'getURL', 'parseXML', and 'postURL' methods until they become part of a 
specification. Content developers will therefore need to provide a javascript 
equivalent built in legal script rather than built in proprietary methods. I 
proposed the benefit of adding these into the codebase temporarily, but the Moz 
team declined to embrace this. KEY NOTE: Sockets ARE supported using ecma's 
standard html methods provided within the ecmascript core. It will be up to 
developers to identify the browser support and send the right ecmascript code, 
and generate bridges from the above methods to the actual ecmascript methods.

3/ MOZ SVG will support scripting

4/ MOZ SVG will support XForms.

5/ MOZ SVG will not support SMIL at first, but Mozilla intend to support the 
full SVG 1.0 (1.1?) specification as soon as possible. Actually, I hear there 
is currently *some* SMIL support, and more coming, but it is not supported yet.

6/ The SVG Moz team seem to not really know where their priorities need to be 
adnd had a lot of questions about 'most useful' features. My line was that they 
would probably find that at least 90% of the SVG spec is needed by at least 50% 
uf app developers. I highlighted the need for get/pstURL, SMIL, scripting, and 
fonts. I said filters were nice but not a killer. And finally, graceful 
degradation was highlighted as an important feature for missing stuff.

7/ The Moz team is concentrating on matching the rendering that Opera8 
provides. I heard it mentioned that Opera may be working on implementing a 
full-SVG version of their browser, since they currently support SVGT only.

All in all, the Mozilla group showed real enthusiasm about SVG and seem to be 
working as fast as they can. They requested that I pass on a request for bug 
reports on FF1.1 to the svg-developers mailing list.

All and all, XTech 2005 showed a great deal of interest in SVG. A number of 
vendors highlighted SVG support in either the current or the pending versions 
of their code. The biggest criticism about SVG I recieved from 
non-insider-svg-developers was that there is a derth of publishing platforms. 
Hopefully this will change soon...

Cheers,

Ronan







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[svg-developers] Re: svg mountainbike simulation, comments requested

2005-05-27 Thread welkerpaul
Hannes,
sincerely thank you very much for answering in spite of the panic 
that's taken place here.

Being away on business I missed the entire buzz. My first reaction 
was to keep it with Francis and steer clear of the soi-disant svg-
developers owners and group moderators.
Yet the caused confusion yielded in some valuable contributions (in 
my opinion). 
Thanks Doug for clarification that sometimes one may feel offended 
when no offense was intended.

Sincerely Hannes, I did not have the smallest intention to bash your 
work! I just realized the vast amount of work you've put into your 
simulation, it did hurt me to have to stand by and see it happening, 
or rather it was like an instant recall of a familiar pain! 
Moreover, you didn't ask for comments off-list.

Obviously some folks on this group want to ignore the fact that svg 
is hardly ever present on the web. Despite the fact that usable 
plugin(s) have been around for years now. One has to stay off this 
list if he takes the freedom of expression that bloating svg at a 
snail's pace wouldn't be ultima ratio in this situation?
On the other hand, it is not clear how much svg takes place at 
intranet level? There's definitely some svg use at large scale 
company intranets. I've been caught up in a number of that kind. The 
big question is, if these projects would have any chance if they 
would be planned today? I do have my doubts. Today, you'll have a 
very hard time to get roll-out clearance for a plugin that bypasses 
maintenanced parsers, script interpreters and c-s communication... 
There are too many expensive kludges to get around the svg-dhtml dom 
isolation issues... And, finally, you might end up with server-side 
pdf generation for printouts calling the entire svg stuff into 
question. After all, servers load isn't that crucial at the intranet 
level.

To get back to the simulation sample, I've been truly curious about 
some platform decision insights. Now, that svg tempts people into 
bottom-up design, actually implies the simplicity to knock a demo 
together using notepad. There's no question that real world projects 
will have top-down design and require roi tables. The bike 
simulation looked somewhat like a real world example. Also one may 
notice that a real web application would require a lot of extra 
plumbing taking care of different client browser/viewer 
implementations. 
Again, considering the enormous number of man-hours you've put into 
your project, I also think this svg-developers group is jointly 
responsible for a type of svg engineering that's not going to work 
for a svg-mass-phenomenon we all would desperately like to spread 
out to real world. Besides the academic world, one has to pay the 
prize for an (hand crafted) ajax (awkward named hype) application. 
For high responsive webapps with far reach and server load 
importance handcrafted ajax solutions are perfectly valid. For svg's 
spread in the first place it's not very helpful. If I remember 
rightly Corel's svg js-lib thing was a disaster. Whenever it suits 
you want applications to generate all this complex stuff against 
various profiles and implementations, right? IMHO, those who are 
willing to bring in more and more 'complexibility' into svg are 
inimical to svg's initial spread. I'm not sure who's the solid svg 
community that asked w3c to bloat svg forever. Pretty much 
impertinent to serve someone with a deportation if one doesn't agree 
in this matter. Ultimately, svg should convince the mass (hence it 
follows browser *vendors*) by it's characteristic features! There 
shouldn't be any need to mix up svg with browser preferences, open 
source zealots, or market monopoly hue and cry. Ok, I'll stop here.

'One shouldn't demand too much of the ordinary web user, but expect 
resistance if a web user feels helpless in the face of a web page.'  
Hannes, you've got me wrong here, wasn't against *your* application. 
It's a general skepticism that svg widgets replacing common controls 
and old familiar gui elements do suffer from major usability 
deficits. I want that eg. scrollbars or picklists *operate* and show 
up identical throughout the system. Well blow me, I guess it's 
definitely a must for the occasional app.

I feel no desire to offend other people, but I have no compunction 
not to complain about the unfortunate w3c-adobe alliance concerning 
xml graphics. Together they just made sure that investing into svg 
is comparable to gambling.
And yes, there's been no essential svg progress at adobe since M. 
Bierman left the building, nevertheless it took years of stagnation 
until others took the risk of implementing the complex spec. Even 
now there're still chances left that adobe might strike back given 
their influence and implementation lead concerning svg. I for one do 
not want encourage the use and development of svg to them again and 
again.

That's all. Every single comment is welcome, off-list of course, due 
to the new policy;-)
And, please 

[svg-developers] SVG to PDF conversion.

2005-05-27 Thread Tej Pratap Singh
Hi,
(1) Since you are the experts in this field i would like to ask you 
one question that what is the best option to convert svg files into 
pdf files in my ASP.NET windows application?
(2) Looking forward for a prompt response and thanking you in 
anticipation.
Regards
-Tej





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RE: [svg-developers] [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech 2005

2005-05-27 Thread Rick Bullotta
Ronan:

Can you summarize the SVG-T/SVG-B/SVG-everything
compliance/compatibility proposed for FF/Mozilla?

Thanks!

- Rick

-Original Message-
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronan Oger
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:35 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech 2005

Hi, SVG Developers,

I gave a SVG/Perl talk at XTech 2005 (XML Europe) on Thursday about
template-driven business graphs in SVG using Perl. I'll post the talk
somewhere when I get the chance and pass on the url here.

While I was there, I took advantage to meet with the Mozilla dev team
who were there in force demonstrating XUL/SVG interaction on Mozilla.

On Thursday afternoon, there was a Mozilla BOF meeting and I managed to
get SVG support on the table.

Here is therefore the latest SVG Mozilla news:

1/ Nightly builds of the SVG 1.1 can be downloaded from the ftp site
below (these may be unstable and are not yet considered Alpha level)

 ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/

 These builds support SVG. Notice, there is a selection switch in the
options (somewhere) that turns on and off native SVG so you can also use
the Adobe browser within the application for comparison.


The Firefox 1.1 alpha 1 release Deer Park also supports SVG and will
 be out any day. Week(s), not month(s).


2/ SVG in Mozilla will support http and XML methods, but will not
provide 'getURL', 'parseXML', and 'postURL' methods until they become
part of a specification. Content developers will therefore need to
provide a javascript equivalent built in legal script rather than built
in proprietary methods. I proposed the benefit of adding these into the
codebase temporarily, but the Moz team declined to embrace this. KEY
NOTE: Sockets ARE supported using ecma's standard html methods provided
within the ecmascript core. It will be up to developers to identify the
browser support and send the right ecmascript code, and generate bridges
from the above methods to the actual ecmascript methods.

3/ MOZ SVG will support scripting

4/ MOZ SVG will support XForms.

5/ MOZ SVG will not support SMIL at first, but Mozilla intend to support
the full SVG 1.0 (1.1?) specification as soon as possible. Actually, I
hear there is currently *some* SMIL support, and more coming, but it is
not supported yet.

6/ The SVG Moz team seem to not really know where their priorities need
to be adnd had a lot of questions about 'most useful' features. My line
was that they would probably find that at least 90% of the SVG spec is
needed by at least 50% uf app developers. I highlighted the need for
get/pstURL, SMIL, scripting, and fonts. I said filters were nice but not
a killer. And finally, graceful degradation was highlighted as an
important feature for missing stuff.

7/ The Moz team is concentrating on matching the rendering that Opera8
provides. I heard it mentioned that Opera may be working on implementing
a full-SVG version of their browser, since they currently support SVGT
only.

All in all, the Mozilla group showed real enthusiasm about SVG and seem
to be working as fast as they can. They requested that I pass on a
request for bug reports on FF1.1 to the svg-developers mailing list.

All and all, XTech 2005 showed a great deal of interest in SVG. A number
of vendors highlighted SVG support in either the current or the pending
versions of their code. The biggest criticism about SVG I recieved from
non-insider-svg-developers was that there is a derth of publishing
platforms. Hopefully this will change soon...

Cheers,

Ronan







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[svg-developers] Dynamicaly change og right click menu

2005-05-27 Thread druetrasker
Hi!

I want to change de menu tree dynamical depending on which element 
on which element i click. I Make a NewMenu element in the SVG. Then 
i try to retrive it and change it in the script, but the changes 
dont seem to take effect.

something like this in the SVG:

defs
 menu id='NewMenu' xmlns='http://foo' onload='GetPosition( evt )'
 item action='ZoomIn'Zoom amp;In/item
 item action='ZoomOut'Zoom amp;Out/item
 item action='About'About SVG Viewer.../item
 /menu
/defs

and something like this in the script:

else if(evt.button == 2){
 var menu = SVGDoc.getElementById(NewMenu);
 mChilds = menu.getChildNodes();
 for(var i = 0; i  mChilds.length; i++){
  if(mChilds.item(i).getAttribute(action) != 'About' ){
   menu.removeChild(mChilds.item(i));
  }
 }
}

after i do this something like this the zoom items are gone in the 
tree but are still in the right click menu...

Anybody have a clue?

Ivar





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[svg-developers] Re: [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech 2005

2005-05-27 Thread T Rowley
Ronan Oger ronan at roasp.com writes:
 3/ MOZ SVG will support scripting

Mozilla/Firefox SVG already supports scripting.  The problem you might
be seeing is the script mimetype:

  http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/faq.html#script

 4/ MOZ SVG will support XForms.

While Mozilla/Firefox SVG should work with XForms, XForms is not currently
planned to be shipped with Firefox 1.1, it will be a seperate download.

 5/ MOZ SVG will not support SMIL at first, but Mozilla intend to support the
full SVG 1.0 (1.1?)
 specification as soon as possible. Actually, I hear there is currently *some*
SMIL support, and more
 coming, but it is not supported yet.

There is currently no support for declarative animation in the codebase,
but discussion and development has begun.  Extremely doubtful that it
will make it in the Firefox 1.1 timeframe.

 7/ The Moz team is concentrating on matching the rendering that Opera8
provides. I heard it mentioned that
 Opera may be working on implementing a full-SVG version of their browser,
since they currently support
 SVGT only.

Matching Opera is not the goal, the specification (1.1) is.

-tor




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[svg-developers] How to create javascript events?

2005-05-27 Thread Real, Peter
Hello,
 
Is there a way to dynamically create javascript events to trigger SET
begin=onCustomEvent animations?
 
Bye,
Peter


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[svg-developers] zoom in/out on a SVG map with icons

2005-05-27 Thread Real, Peter
Hello to all,
 
I am creating a SVG based map. The user can zoom in and out of the map
with special javascript functions. The map also has a layer with Icons.
The problem is that the Icons should not be zoomed with the same factor.

At the moment I am using a separate javascript function to scale the
Icons. The function gets each of the Icons of one layer and scales it.
 
g id=layer_restaurants
use xlink:href=#rest_icon  x=10 y=25.../
use xlink:href=#rest_icon x=32 y=23 .../
...
/g 
 
Another solution is to directly scale the symbol. Then I have to create
at least two symbols, if I want to use one in the legend. 
 
Is there another way of doing this? This should be a typical problem
with SVG maps, so I hope that one of the mapping people here knows a
good/common solution.
 
Bye,
Peter


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RE: [svg-developers] [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech 2005

2005-05-27 Thread Rick Bullotta
Schweet.  I'd love to see it happen!

-Original Message-
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:35 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [svg-developers] [update] Mozilla SVG report from XTech
2005

Rick,

SVG-T and SVG-B were not specifically mentioned except within the
context
that that is what Opera currently supports and Moz's desire to match the
active SVG development efforts that are taking place at thist time. They
are aiming for SVG. That said, I did highlight to Robert O'Callahan that
settling for SVGB would be a good place to start in order to support
business graphics, or SVGT plus scripting.

Ronan


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Re: [svg-developers] passing arguments without a web server (long)

2005-05-27 Thread Ellen Clary

Hi G. Wade,

I can certainly give HTTP::Daemon a try.  Are the arguments passed via 
the environment variable $QUERY_STRING or $ARGV?

Funny how these simple appearing things always seem to grow in complexity.

Ellen


G. Wade Johnson wrote:
 Hi Ellen,
 
 SVG is well-suited to communications with a web server.
 
 In similar quick/prototype situations I've used HTTP::Daemon to build a
 small, standalone web server in Perl. Instead of running separate CGI
 scripts, you just run normal subs.
 
 The main code for this web server is in the documentation for
 HTTP::Daemon.
 
 If that's too much work. I'd suggest loading Apache. The installation is
 pretty straight-forward, even on Windows.
 
 G. Wade



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[svg-developers] Re: Printing

2005-05-27 Thread Andreas Neumann
Hi,

Batik does a good job in printing SVG. It can also convert SVGs to
PDFs, but if you use opacity, it will/might rasterize your vector
graphics that include opacity. You can set the resolution, however.

Don't forget to allocate enough memory for batik. The default of 64MB
memory is too small for most applications.

Other options include any XSL-FO converter. Most of them support SVG.
Illustrator and/or Corel might work, but I did not have much success
for my mapping svgs with viewBoxes, nested svgs, etc.

Andreas

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Brett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does anyone know of a program that can print svg graphics with full 
 quality? (ie without rasterizing the svg).  Or does anyone know of a 
 program that can convert svg to eps?




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[svg-developers] can't get it to change stroke color on mouse over

2005-05-27 Thread mhagston
I can get this to work when i use the opacity attribute, but can't 
seem to get it to change the stroke color onmouseover. Still very new 
to svg and the documentation is somewhat sparce thus far. I know i 
got too many things under the 'highlight' function, was trying 
everything i could think of and/or read through the group here. any 
help you can provide would be greatly appriciated, or perhaps links 
to good reference sites, i think i've read through most of the 
tutorial sites. Cheers!

?xml version=1.0 standalone=no?!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC -
//W3C//DTD SVG 
1.1//EN   http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd;
svg width=24cm height=12cm viewBox=0 0 4000 2000 
onload=Initialize(evt);xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; 
version=1.1  descExample polygon01 - star and hexagon/desc

script
![CDATA[
function Initialize(LoadEvent)
{
var svgdoc = document;
var svgns = 'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg';
var xlinkns = 'http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink';
mp =  aaab;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp +=  aaa;
mp += aaa   aa;
mp += aaa  aaa;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;
mp += ;

mp2 =  aaab;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += aaab;
mp2 += aaabbaaa;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += aaab;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;
mp2 += ;

var curC = 0;
for (y=1; y=20; y++) {
 for (x=1; x=20; x++) {
  var use = svgdoc.createElementNS(svgns, 'use');
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'x',  ((x*100)-(y*100)+1900) );
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'y', ((y*50)+(x*50)-100) );
  use.style.setProperty(stroke, black);
  use.style.setProperty(stroke-width, 2);
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'onmouseover', 'Highlight(evt);' );
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'onmouseout', 'Unhighlight(evt);' );
  if (mp.substr(curC,1)=='a') { use.setAttributeNS
(xlinkns, 'href', '#tile'); }
  if (mp.substr(curC,1)=='b') { use.setAttributeNS
(xlinkns, 'href', '#tile1'); }
  svgdoc.documentElement.appendChild(use);
  curC++;
  }
 }
var curC = 0;
for (y=1; y=20; y++) {
 for (x=1; x=20; x++) {
  if (mp2.substr(curC,1)=='b') { 
  var use = svgdoc.createElementNS(svgns, 'use');
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'x',  ((x*100)-(y*100)+1900 +69) );
  use.setAttributeNS(null, 'y', ((y*50)+(x*50)-100 -150) );
  use.setAttributeNS(xlinkns, 'href', '#pinetree');
  svgdoc.documentElement.appendChild(use);
  }
  curC++;
  }
 }
}

function Highlight(evt) {
// evt.target.setAttribute(opacity, .5);
evt.target.setAttribute(stroke, red);
evt.target.setAttributeNS(null,stroke, red);
evt.target.style.setProperty(stroke, red);
evt.target.style.setProperty(stroke-width, 2);

}
function Unhighlight(evt) {
// evt.target.setAttribute(opacity, 1);
// evt.target.style.setProperty(stroke, black);
}

]]
/script

pattern id=innerGraphBackgound patternUnits=userSpaceOnUse x=0 
y=0 width=500 height=500
image xlink:href=images/grasstexture.png x=0 y=0 
width=500 height=500 style=opacity:1.0;image-
rendering:optimizeSpeed;/
/pattern
pattern id=innerGraphBackgound2 patternUnits=userSpaceOnUse 
x=0 y=0 width=500 height=500
image xlink:href=images/texturewater.jpg x=0 y=0 width=500 
height=500
style=opacity:1.0;image-rendering:optimizeSpeed; /
/pattern

defs
polygon id=tile opacity=1.0
points=0,50 100,0 200,50 100,100
style=stroke:rgb(0,0,0);stroke-width:3;fill: url
(#innerGraphBackgound) 
set attributeName=stroke from=black to=red 
begin=mouseover end=mouseout/
/polygon
/defs


defs
polygon id=tile1 style=fill: url(#innerGraphBackgound2)
stroke=black stroke-width=1 points=0,50 100,0 200,50 
100,100
/
/defs
defs
image id=pinetree xlink:href=images/pinetree.gif x=0 y=0 
width=123 height=200
style=opacity:1.0;image-rendering:optimizeSpeed;
/
/defs

/svg





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[svg-developers] Re: How to create javascript events?

2005-05-27 Thread Alastair Fettes
Hi Peter,

Could you explain a bit more indepth?  Are you trying to create custom
event objects?  Are you trying to trigger SMIL animations with
JavaScript?  Let me know a bit more and I'll see if I can help.

Alastair

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Real, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Hello,
  
 Is there a way to dynamically create javascript events to trigger SET
 begin=onCustomEvent animations?
  
 Bye,
 Peter
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [svg-developers] [spark] radiobutton eventlisteners

2005-05-27 Thread Philippe Lhoste
Jorg Heymans wrote:
 Anyone knowledgeable in Spark (spark.sourceforge.net) on this list ?
 Spark is an SVG widget framework.
 
 I am trying to find out why i can't decorate a standalone radiobutton
 with a custom command. It works when the radiobutton is part of a
 radiobuttongroup. All i'm after is to trigger a function when the
 radiobutton state has changed.
 
 Thoughts?
 Jorg

Well, in most systems I saw, radiobuttons are _not_ designed to be used 
standalone... By definition, they are made to be part of a group, so 
when selecting one, the previously selected one is deselected.

If you use a standalone radiobutton, you risk to confuse users, you 
should use a checkbox for this, this is the standard use.

Well, that's just my 2 eurocents, thrown randomly as I don't know your 
exact use case...
Just in reaction of some bad UI designs I see sometime... :-)

-- 
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  For servers mangling my From and Reply-To fields,
--  please send private answers to PhiLho(a)GMX.net
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --


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[svg-developers] How do I link my .asp page from SVG?

2005-05-27 Thread jhudn
I am trying to link to this webpage located on a local server:
http://tcas/ORVX/view.asp?nlf_id='SASR4*C'offset=20.14

I tried using the a xlink:href but I recive an error not well-
formed.

Here is my linked element:
a xlink:href=http://tcas/ORVX/view.asp?
nlf_id='SASR4*C'offset=20.14
circle cx=83.622 cy=41.534 r=2/
/a

Can anyone Help with this issue?




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