Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
Isn't that funny...I almost invoked your name today in that post john...you must have picked up the vibes from the morphogenetic field. Deng sounds interesting. I'll look into it. Will Adobe look at sinking any funds into its development? Guy Quoting John Dowdell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Guy Morton wrote: >> Re: the suggestion that Adobe will build support for SVG into the >> Flash plugin, that's a tantalising prospect, but I can't see it >> happening in our lifetimes. Why would Adobe not have announced that >> intention before now, if that was their plan? Why would they do it? > > I haven't seen any announcements either. Player size still undergoes > vigorous internal debate, though. > > But you do know it has been possible, for quite some time, to render > core SVG instructions on the majority of desktops today, right? > http://deng.com.br/features/ > > If you wish to improve the rendering instructions, then you can do so... > it's an opensource SWF which contains the SVG code: > http://deng.com.br/support/ > > (Trivia point: The Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1+ libraries for mobile have > the option for an SVG-Tiny compliant rendering engine, but I do not know > of any manufacturers who have deployed that option.) > > Summary: There's already a cross-platform, cross-browser engine deployed > to the world's desktops today, which has the capability to render SVG > content. We just need to turn that capability into practice, that's all > > jd > > > > > > > -- > John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA > Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd > Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna > Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ > Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. > > > - > To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -or- > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > membership" > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
I don't see any support in Deng for scripting or bitmaps. This would be a show-stopper for us, sadly. Quoting John Dowdell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Guy Morton wrote: >> Re: the suggestion that Adobe will build support for SVG into the >> Flash plugin, that's a tantalising prospect, but I can't see it >> happening in our lifetimes. Why would Adobe not have announced that >> intention before now, if that was their plan? Why would they do it? > > I haven't seen any announcements either. Player size still undergoes > vigorous internal debate, though. > > But you do know it has been possible, for quite some time, to render > core SVG instructions on the majority of desktops today, right? > http://deng.com.br/features/ > > If you wish to improve the rendering instructions, then you can do so... > it's an opensource SWF which contains the SVG code: > http://deng.com.br/support/ > > (Trivia point: The Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1+ libraries for mobile have > the option for an SVG-Tiny compliant rendering engine, but I do not know > of any manufacturers who have deployed that option.) > > Summary: There's already a cross-platform, cross-browser engine deployed > to the world's desktops today, which has the capability to render SVG > content. We just need to turn that capability into practice, that's all > > jd > > > > > > > -- > John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA > Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd > Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna > Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ > Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. > > > - > To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -or- > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > membership" > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
Guy Morton wrote: > Re: the suggestion that Adobe will build support for SVG into the > Flash plugin, that's a tantalising prospect, but I can't see it > happening in our lifetimes. Why would Adobe not have announced that > intention before now, if that was their plan? Why would they do it? I haven't seen any announcements either. Player size still undergoes vigorous internal debate, though. But you do know it has been possible, for quite some time, to render core SVG instructions on the majority of desktops today, right? http://deng.com.br/features/ If you wish to improve the rendering instructions, then you can do so... it's an opensource SWF which contains the SVG code: http://deng.com.br/support/ (Trivia point: The Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1+ libraries for mobile have the option for an SVG-Tiny compliant rendering engine, but I do not know of any manufacturers who have deployed that option.) Summary: There's already a cross-platform, cross-browser engine deployed to the world's desktops today, which has the capability to render SVG content. We just need to turn that capability into practice, that's all jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 06/12/2006, at 5:56 AM, tony_ser wrote: > Re: the suggestion that Adobe will build support for SVG into the > Flash plugin, that's a tantalising prospect, but I can't see it > happening in our lifetimes. Why would Adobe not have announced that > intention before now, if that was their plan? Why would they do it? > > Guy There are many business reasons I can think of for keeping such a goal under wraps, although not being a mind reader I don't know which reasons might be in play. Well, the why they would do it is XML and all the places they could market their products that they cannot now. Additionally , if they don't reposition themselves, nature abhors a vacuum and someone will make the plug in. Even as is , one can do flash like applications in SVG and the growing maturity of the native implementations in other browsers will simply make the ASV the ugly one in the family but still workable. FLASH will eventually become ever more irrelevant as will all it's related tools if it decides not to migrate to w3.org standards. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
On 06/12/2006, at 5:56 AM, tony_ser wrote: > Why ? > 1. Firefox and Opera support is no where near complete compare to > both Adobe SVG Viewer. It really limit the scope of the application > you could develop with those 2 browser as target. Well I'm not sure I agree. I've built a pretty sophisticated app that runs in all three. > 2. For IE, you need plugin anyway. And the best SVG viewer (Adobe) is > dead. Well yes, it's dead in 2008. I agree that we need a good solution for IE sometime soon. What shits me to tears is that MS clearly could provide that support if they chose to, but instead they release something that "embraces and extends" concepts they've ripped off from the open source community. Personally I'll be in the cold cold ground before I give that sort of behaviour my support. Personally, I'd support Flash over WPF/E, via a dojo type solution that will render to whatever is available in the browser. If that gives me support via Flash in IE and via SVG in FF and opera, then I'm happy and MS can go fcuk themselves... :-) > If your application involves simple stuff which works fine in Firefox > and Opera, and you only target less than 20% of the browser install > base, go ahead with SVG. That's not the only answer to the problem of IE not supporting SVG. > I have been a SVG fan for a long time (for the exact same reason as > Kevin), and did develop application with it. But since Adobe pull the > plug, it is a whole different game. It's a slightly different game. ASV was always likely to go away eventually and we've all known that for a while. Re: the suggestion that Adobe will build support for SVG into the Flash plugin, that's a tantalising prospect, but I can't see it happening in our lifetimes. Why would Adobe not have announced that intention before now, if that was their plan? Why would they do it? Guy > > Tony > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Why would I want to ask my Firefox and Opera-using clients to >> download a plug-in to do something those browsers can already do >> natively? >> >> Maybe if all you really care about is Windows, then yeah, knock >> yourself out. >> >> A vote for proprietary technology in this case is a vote for more >> corporate power. Yeah, I think M$ needs some more of that. I'm > sure >> they'll never abuse it. Let's all help M$ by adopting WPF/E over >> equivalent open standard and open source alternatives! >> >> Guy >> >> >> >> >> On 05/12/2006, at 4:47 PM, kggsystem wrote: >> >>> Well, too bad you won't give it a spin. >>> >>> I forgot to mention that the WPF/E Beta has runtimes for Internet >>> Explorer and Firefox on the PC, and for the MAC. Linux runtimes > will >>> follow within a year. Makes me wonder how much more effort the FF >>> people will want to put into SVG now that they have this WPF/E > stuff. >>> >>> I have been a SVG fan for a long time, but not because it was an > Open >>> Standard spec'd by comittee. I am a fan of SVG because of what it > can >>> do for me and my customers. I am a fan because of it's declarative >>> nature, elegant schema, rich feature set, and scriptable DOM. So > by >>> extension I am a fan of this WPF/E stuff too. Same model. It has >>> nothing to do with blinders or gullibility or that Bill Gates >>> invented the Web, Cellular Telephone, and Transistor or whatever > else >>> he invented. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton wrote: Nup, I'm not the least bit interested in that. Another > proprietary model for delivering "rich web apps"? no thanks. I can't believe *anyone*, except die-hard and blinkered M$ fans, >>> can want this. Sounds like they ought to be able to support SVG using this stuff though, and pretty easily I'd have thought. Clearly they > understand the problem space well enough. What's lacking, as always with M$, is the will to give support to a technology they can't own. It's my fervent hope that sooner or later this will bring about their demise, however, breathless announcements about how "cool" stuff like this is indicates to me that M$ are as good as ever > at spinning a line for the gullible. They'll have everyone believing they invented the web all over again. Let's hope this goes the way of "Microsoft Network", and they are eventually forced to throw their lot in with the rest of > humanity, instead of reinventing everything as their own. Guy On 05/12/2006, at 6:56 AM, kggsystem wrote: > WPF/E is much more closer to SVG than the full fledged WPF, in >>> that it > runs "loose markup" with a scripting model, in a browser. The > Full > Fledged WPF really requires a compilation step before it is very > useful. > > SVG Model > > 1) User in Browser points to an URL that might be HTML and/or > SVG. > 2) Files (HTML
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
> Well, I already create SVG applications, and while > the various implementations are still short of being fully > compliant with the w3.org standards, the overlap of what is already > implemented has me already making money developing > xbrowser SVG. I can say the same about my applications. Most of it runs fine accross Opera 9, Firefox >1.5 and ASV, with Safari/Webkit soon to join the club. Here are some more complex examples that work across browsers: http://www.geofoto.ch/geophotomap/ http://www.carto.net/williams/yosemite/ all of http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/ Yes, there are some open issues, but none of them are too serious and not resolvable. If you take the time and report bugs or complain about missing features, I am sure that Opera and Firefox will react in a timely manner. Andreas - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "tony_ser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Why ? > 1. Firefox and Opera support is no where near complete compare to > both Adobe SVG Viewer. It really limit the scope of the application > you could develop with those 2 browser as target. what, specifically are you missing in Opera? Please be specific and don't just say that its "no where near complete". In my experience, Opera is already very complete - not too much missing. It even does certain stuff in DOM that ASV isn't supporting. > I have been a SVG fan for a long time (for the exact same reason as > Kevin), and did develop application with it. But since Adobe pull the > plug, it is a whole different game. why is Adobe so important to SVG? IE is the only browser with no native SVG support. They have to support it soon if they don't want to loose more market share. Native SVG support in browsers is much better than a plugin anyway. With a plugin you are in this box and the Eolas case showed us what can happen to plugins ... lots of annoying stuff ... Andreas - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
tony_ser wrote: > Why ? > 1. Firefox and Opera support is no where near complete compare to > both Adobe SVG Viewer. It really limit the scope of the application > you could develop with those 2 browser as target. > Well, I already create SVG applications, and while the various implementations are still short of being fully compliant with the w3.org standards, the overlap of what is already implemented has me already making money developing xbrowser SVG. > 2. For IE, you need plugin anyway. And the best SVG viewer (Adobe) is > dead. > Personally I'm glad that M$ is using a plug-in as it avoids them butchering yet another spec. As to the Adobe viewer being dead , I think that is probably but a half truth. Yes , in 2008 the Adobe Viewer will cease ( That's the true part ). Since Adobe bought Macromedia, that probably means they will take the SVG parser and slap it onto an existing Macromedia product as otherwise they would need to maintain two code trees. Being as the flash plugin is in most computers , shifting the SVG effort there would see an explosion in SVG support. > If your application involves simple stuff which works fine in Firefox > and Opera, and you only target less than 20% of the browser install > base, go ahead with SVG. > > I have been a SVG fan for a long time (for the exact same reason as > Kevin), and did develop application with it. But since Adobe pull the > plug, it is a whole different game. > > Tony > I think your just sitting too close to the screen, and need to pull back some to see the larger picture of why Adobe having acquired the Flash player would want to shift the SVG effort into that product and discontinue the ASV Doc - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
Why ? 1. Firefox and Opera support is no where near complete compare to both Adobe SVG Viewer. It really limit the scope of the application you could develop with those 2 browser as target. 2. For IE, you need plugin anyway. And the best SVG viewer (Adobe) is dead. If your application involves simple stuff which works fine in Firefox and Opera, and you only target less than 20% of the browser install base, go ahead with SVG. I have been a SVG fan for a long time (for the exact same reason as Kevin), and did develop application with it. But since Adobe pull the plug, it is a whole different game. Tony --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Why would I want to ask my Firefox and Opera-using clients to > download a plug-in to do something those browsers can already do > natively? > > Maybe if all you really care about is Windows, then yeah, knock > yourself out. > > A vote for proprietary technology in this case is a vote for more > corporate power. Yeah, I think M$ needs some more of that. I'm sure > they'll never abuse it. Let's all help M$ by adopting WPF/E over > equivalent open standard and open source alternatives! > > Guy > > > > > On 05/12/2006, at 4:47 PM, kggsystem wrote: > > > Well, too bad you won't give it a spin. > > > > I forgot to mention that the WPF/E Beta has runtimes for Internet > > Explorer and Firefox on the PC, and for the MAC. Linux runtimes will > > follow within a year. Makes me wonder how much more effort the FF > > people will want to put into SVG now that they have this WPF/E stuff. > > > > I have been a SVG fan for a long time, but not because it was an Open > > Standard spec'd by comittee. I am a fan of SVG because of what it can > > do for me and my customers. I am a fan because of it's declarative > > nature, elegant schema, rich feature set, and scriptable DOM. So by > > extension I am a fan of this WPF/E stuff too. Same model. It has > > nothing to do with blinders or gullibility or that Bill Gates > > invented the Web, Cellular Telephone, and Transistor or whatever else > > he invented. > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton wrote: > >> > >> Nup, I'm not the least bit interested in that. Another proprietary > >> model for delivering "rich web apps"? no thanks. > >> > >> I can't believe *anyone*, except die-hard and blinkered M$ fans, > > can want this. > >> > >> Sounds like they ought to be able to support SVG using this stuff > >> though, and pretty easily I'd have thought. Clearly they understand > >> the problem space well enough. What's lacking, as always with M$, > >> is the will to give support to a technology they can't own. > >> It's my fervent hope that sooner or later this will bring about > >> their demise, however, breathless announcements about how "cool" > >> stuff like this is indicates to me that M$ are as good as ever at > >> spinning a line for the gullible. They'll have everyone believing > >> they invented the web all over again. > >> > >> Let's hope this goes the way of "Microsoft Network", and they are > >> eventually forced to throw their lot in with the rest of humanity, > >> instead of reinventing everything as their own. > >> > >> Guy > >> > >> On 05/12/2006, at 6:56 AM, kggsystem wrote: > >> > >>> WPF/E is much more closer to SVG than the full fledged WPF, in > > that it > >>> runs "loose markup" with a scripting model, in a browser. The Full > >>> Fledged WPF really requires a compilation step before it is very > >>> useful. > >>> > >>> SVG Model > >>> > >>> 1) User in Browser points to an URL that might be HTML and/or SVG. > >>> 2) Files (HTML, SVG, JS, CSS) are returned, rendered, and the > > scripts > >>> are activated. Javascript can manipulate the SVG DOM to do stuff > >>> 3) User is in Business > >>> > >>> WPF/E Model > >>> > >>> 1) User in Browser points to an URL that might be HTML and/or > > XAML. > >>> 2) Files (HTML, XAML, JS) are returned, rendered, and the scripts > > are > >>> activated. Javascript can manipulate the WPF/E DOM to do stuff > >>> 3) User is in Business > >>> > >>> Check it out, you might find it interesting > >>> > >>> Kevin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers- > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> -or- > >>> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and > > click "edit > >>> my membership" > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -or- > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit > > my membership" > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
> hm - I had no luck viewing WPF/E content on my Mac, despite its > claims to support MacOSX. First it told me I have to use Firefox > 1.5.8. It did not like Firefox2. Then it told me, that I need a > plugin, which it did not find. I finally installed the plugin on the mac. It needs a manual install. Automatic install does not work yet. Performance is very disappointing, though. The page turn is slow and the video comes with a framerate of 2-3 frames per second. My Computer is not the latest, its still a PowerPC, with 1GB Ram, 1Ghz Processor. Flash content runs slick on this machine. Andreas - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
> I forgot to mention that the WPF/E Beta has runtimes for Internet > Explorer and Firefox on the PC, and for the MAC. Linux runtimes will hm - I had no luck viewing WPF/E content on my Mac, despite its claims to support MacOSX. First it told me I have to use Firefox 1.5.8. It did not like Firefox2. Then it told me, that I need a plugin, which it did not find. > follow within a year. Makes me wonder how much more effort the FF > people will want to put into SVG now that they have this WPF/E stuff. hopefully more. I don't see this WPF/E as an SVG replacement if it does not run in the common browsers and operating systems and is not based on open standards. > I have been a SVG fan for a long time, but not because it was an Open > Standard spec'd by comittee. I am a fan of SVG because of what it can > do for me and my customers. I am a fan because of it's declarative > nature, elegant schema, rich feature set, and scriptable DOM. So by > extension I am a fan of this WPF/E stuff too. Same model. It has true - I would certainly prefer this WPF/E stuff over Macrodobe Flash, since its closer to the declarative way. However, I still hope that SVG succeeds in this area. Andreas - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
Hi list, I thought WPF/E was just a grab at December Advertisement networks of computer users with an announcement of 'open' SDK of 5.1MB for XP2 or Vista http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2b01ec7e-c3b8-47cc- b12a-67c30191c3aa&DisplayLang=en that is downloaded from a DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" page with the 'wonderful' mine-type of MSI format. At the same time I can find a add to upgrade my os, and perhaps later new computer to run my upgraded vista? (I am sure m$ hide that from advertisers and would never boast how many users they target with online and offline advertisements like AOL CD mailouts while getting my government and others to create laws preventing Spam) I can only think that "within a year" simply is evidence of 'the current m$ grab' at bogging down open standards in billions of line of code while Preventing the porting for a year to target sales on Server environments first, users are second with a line of offline tools. I think the below is somewhat incorrect in that a Server is required for most XAML returns of data unless you can hand code it. In WPF/E step 2 the function is broken because m$ "recommends" that you use "the related m$ server product" to return XAML. As such its just a 'marketing term' for the current m$ grab at cgi ssi. While I am dumb simple user, I am not that dumb - The only thing invented here is greed, simple, pure, ... :-) Jason - Original Message - From: "Guy Morton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download > Why would I want to ask my Firefox and Opera-using clients to > download a plug-in to do something those browsers can already do > natively? > > Maybe if all you really care about is Windows, then yeah, knock > yourself out. > > A vote for proprietary technology in this case is a vote for more > corporate power. Yeah, I think M$ needs some more of that. I'm sure > they'll never abuse it. Let's all help M$ by adopting WPF/E over > equivalent open standard and open source alternatives! > > Guy > > > > > On 05/12/2006, at 4:47 PM, kggsystem wrote: > > > Well, too bad you won't give it a spin. > > > > I forgot to mention that the WPF/E Beta has runtimes for Internet > > Explorer and Firefox on the PC, and for the MAC. Linux runtimes will > > follow within a year. Makes me wonder how much more effort the FF > > people will want to put into SVG now that they have this WPF/E stuff. > > > > I have been a SVG fan for a long time, but not because it was an Open > > Standard spec'd by comittee. I am a fan of SVG because of what it can > > do for me and my customers. I am a fan because of it's declarative > > nature, elegant schema, rich feature set, and scriptable DOM. So by > > extension I am a fan of this WPF/E stuff too. Same model. It has > > nothing to do with blinders or gullibility or that Bill Gates > > invented the Web, Cellular Telephone, and Transistor or whatever else > > he invented. > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Nup, I'm not the least bit interested in that. Another proprietary > >> model for delivering "rich web apps"? no thanks. > >> > >> I can't believe *anyone*, except die-hard and blinkered M$ fans, > > can want this. > >> > >> Sounds like they ought to be able to support SVG using this stuff > >> though, and pretty easily I'd have thought. Clearly they understand > >> the problem space well enough. What's lacking, as always with M$, > >> is the will to give support to a technology they can't own. > >> It's my fervent hope that sooner or later this will bring about > >> their demise, however, breathless announcements about how "cool" > >> stuff like this is indicates to me that M$ are as good as ever at > >> spinning a line for the gullible. They'll have everyone believing > >> they invented the web all over again. > >> > >> Let's hope this goes the way of "Microsoft Network", and they are > >> eventually forced to throw their lot in with the rest of humanity, > >> instead of reinventing everything as their own. > >> > >> Guy > >> > >> On 05/12/2006, at 6:56 AM, kggsystem wrote: > >> > >>> WPF/E is much more closer to SVG than the full fledged WPF, in > > that it > >>> runs "loose markup" with a scripting model, in a browser. The Full > >>> Fledged WPF really requires a compilation step before it is very > >>> useful. > >>> > >>> SVG Model > >>> > >>> 1) User in Browser points to an URL that might be HTML and/or SVG. > >>> 2) Files (HTML, SVG, JS, CSS) are returned, rendered, and the > > scripts > >>> are activated. Javascript can manipulate the SVG DOM to do stuff > >>> 3) User is in Business > >>> > >>> WPF/E Model > >>> > >>> 1) User in Browser points to an URL that might be HTML and/or > > XAML. > >>> 2) Files (HTML, XAML, JS) are returned, rendered, and the scripts > > are
Re: [svg-developers] Re: WPF/E Goes Beta Community preview available for download
* Andreas Neumann wrote: >I guess its more powerful than VML, is it? Mostly. >Does WPF/E support declarative animation? Yes. >Does that WPF/E thing run in IE6 and IE7 without having to install >additional software? Of course not. -- Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de Weinh. Str. 22 · Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de 68309 Mannheim · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
