[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
Jon Thank you very much for the help. I am currently thinking I'll eventually build something like that carto.net textbox, with the addition of changing size of the block it is embedded within as characters are typed or rubbed out. Initially, I'll likely use that carto.net textbox unchanged to get a better feel for how the UI is working. Because the block is the visual element that the user will be concentrating on, I would like to avoid adding any extra visual 'decoration' (other than a cursor change to an I-beam) Cheers GB --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Frost jonfrost@... wrote: ForeignObject seems like the ideal tag to use for inserting Html content within Svg, however I believe IE9 does not (will not?) support the ForeignObject tag. The logic there it seems is that div tags layered on top of the Svg should work just as well. There has been mixed support for ForeignObject in other browsers as well such as: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=65616 Here are a few decent resources for mixing Svg and Html: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html#scripting_HTML http://www.schepers.cc/svg/blendups/scriptbridge/scriptbridge-insertBug.html This has been a useful little script and works well for a lot of scenarios: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/index.svg Best. On 1/19/2011 2:47 PM, gb_n_svg wrote: Thomas Thank you for the advice. I wondered if something like that might be an answer, (my colleagues did that with a complex X-Windows UI, but that was 16 years ago!) so now I know!-) (Not the answer I had hoped for :-) I assume I need to define the XHTML name space, and then use that within my SVG? Thanks again GB-) --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, th_w@th_w@ wrote: I tried something similar some time ago, and it's a pain. I'm not sure whether you can at all detect all possible keystrokes correctly, not to speak of accented characters and such. I'd probably go with an HTMLinput field inside aforeignObject right now, since the editable text currently is only supported by Opera, I believe. I would replace the to-be-edited-text with aninput, and when editing is done, I would swap back the text element with updated content. I didn't try it, but I think it should be possible. Thomas W. - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
ForeignObject seems like the ideal tag to use for inserting Html content within Svg, however I believe IE9 does not (will not?) support the ForeignObject tag. The logic there it seems is that div tags layered on top of the Svg should work just as well. There has been mixed support for ForeignObject in other browsers as well such as: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=65616 Here are a few decent resources for mixing Svg and Html: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html#scripting_HTML http://www.schepers.cc/svg/blendups/scriptbridge/scriptbridge-insertBug.html This has been a useful little script and works well for a lot of scenarios: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/index.svg Best. On 1/19/2011 2:47 PM, gb_n_svg wrote: Thomas Thank you for the advice. I wondered if something like that might be an answer, (my colleagues did that with a complex X-Windows UI, but that was 16 years ago!) so now I know!-) (Not the answer I had hoped for :-) I assume I need to define the XHTML name space, and then use that within my SVG? Thanks again GB-) --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, th_w@...th_w@... wrote: I tried something similar some time ago, and it's a pain. I'm not sure whether you can at all detect all possible keystrokes correctly, not to speak of accented characters and such. I'd probably go with an HTMLinput field inside aforeignObject right now, since the editable text currently is only supported by Opera, I believe. I would replace the to-be-edited-text with aninput, and when editing is done, I would swap back the text element with updated content. I didn't try it, but I think it should be possible. Thomas W. - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
Yes, I have had uneven results with a simple 'blur' filter across browsers. I am instantiating most of my shapes using the 'use' element, so I am hoping that I can isolate all of the browser variability into a small, non-visible 'defs' subsection of my SVG, so that I can either go with a 'lowest common denominator' (greatest common divisor) of all web browsers, or browser specific variants. I have 150+ 'blocks' to create, each with a variety of visual characteristics. I think I have about 14 unique 'tiles' and believe I can compose every one of the 150+ blocks from those 14 tiles. Most of them are a path elements of constant size, unchanged by text being entered, and so they are the 'interlock' pieces. I now believe the few 'tiles' that need to change size as text is edited are rectangles. So it looks feasible to do 'live' editing on the shape. (Of course, I need to write all of that code, so this isn't trivial) I have several ways I can progress. I could simply compose a group containing a set of 'use' for each block instance, making it from the appropriate 'tiles', and with suitable coordinates the block will look like a single graphic. The changeable parts could be resized by applying a scaling transformation on the use, or by making a new rectangle instance, and adjusting the coordinates in the 'use' for other 'interlock' tiles. Or, I could built a single path, assembling the data in tiles to make a single unique path. This would only be changed when the user edits the text on a block. All the user interface is text or filled paths, one path per block background.. Both will also have the overlaid text, but this can be 'dumb' when not being actively edited. I am concerned that 'use'ing a bunch of tiles to make each block might have two annoying visual artefacts (vs creating a single path for each block background): 1. When the block is dragged, the update to the coordinates of each 'use'd tile might not be synchronised so small visible 'tears' might appear while it is dragged 2. When filters are applied to make the drop shadow, the edges between tiles, (which would be invisible because of their position and colour scheme) will get highlighted by the filters, so it won't look like a single 'path' shadow, but will look like a set of tiles with fuzzy boundaries. Any views? TIA GB --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, cremnosedum richard@... wrote: Hi, --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Beard jbeard4@ wrote: Also, just a note about SVG filters: I think they have only recently been added to Webkit, and so are not in currently release versions of Chrome and Safari. The last versions I tested: Chrome 5.0.375.70 tries to implement filters but there are a lot it can't handle and it simply doesn't display objects with such filters but at least some of them can receive events. Safari 4.0.3(531.9.1) doesn't implement filters but objects with them appear, usually as a solid colour. Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 Make money from discussing things: http://www.myLot.com?ref=Graptopetalum - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
Hi, --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Beard jbeard4@... wrote: Also, just a note about SVG filters: I think they have only recently been added to Webkit, and so are not in currently release versions of Chrome and Safari. The last versions I tested: Chrome 5.0.375.70 tries to implement filters but there are a lot it can't handle and it simply doesn't display objects with such filters but at least some of them can receive events. Safari 4.0.3(531.9.1) doesn't implement filters but objects with them appear, usually as a solid colour. Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/ The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415 Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199 South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008 Make money from discussing things: http://www.myLot.com?ref=Graptopetalum - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
I tried something similar some time ago, and it's a pain. I'm not sure whether you can at all detect all possible keystrokes correctly, not to speak of accented characters and such. I'd probably go with an HTML input field inside a foreignObject right now, since the editable text currently is only supported by Opera, I believe. I would replace the to-be-edited-text with an input, and when editing is done, I would swap back the text element with updated content. I didn't try it, but I think it should be possible. Thomas W. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, gb_n_svg gbulmeruk@... wrote: I'd like to know what is the 'right way' to do text input in pure SVG? (I am building a pure SVG user interface.) I have lots of different shapes (over 100), each made from a group containing paths, rectangles and text elements (eventually filters too). The user can 'clone' any shape by dragging it and dropping. They need to be able to type some text into *one* of the text fields within the group, just one word or a number. (Some text is the applications labels, and can't be changed by the user) I would like to stretch the shape as they type reach character if the text they are entering is approaching one of the other fields on the shape, or the edge of the shape. I'd like to shrink the shape, if they rub out a character. They should be able to click into the middle of the text, and drive left and right with the cursor keys. I don't need to support tabbing from one field to the next. The shape is quite complex, so expanding or shrinking while they type may need the path 'd' attribute value to be changed dynamically. Is that an okay idea, or do I need to try to design the shapes' geometry to avoid it? I'd also like to support drop-down lists around the text input (for 'standard values' or their most recent entries) Would someone please point me at the stuff I should be reading or googling-for to understand the available approaches to text input? Simple searches like SVG text input doesn't seem to find anything helpful. Do I need to handle every key stroke myself, or are there some helper mechanisms that I can hook into? For example, when I used to do X-Windows stuff, editing could be handled by a widget, but it was possible to look at every character too (both before and after the widget saw it, I think; 19 years ago, so I may be wrong). I'd like to get reasonably wide deployment (when Firefox 4, and IE9 arrive). Should I be constraining myself to SVG 1.1, and ignore the SVG 1.2 (I see that 1.2 seems to have editable text support)? Or, should I be using XHTML too, and abandon a pure SVG approach? All help welcomed :-) GB-) - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
I agree, it can be a pain to do with SVG 1.1, but it is possible. carto.net has had some example of textbox widgets since a long time: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/ Lively kernel rolled their own multi-line text editor for editing code: http://www.lively-kernel.org/ And it just so happens that I've also been working on an SVG-based text editor for a course project this semester. I haven't released it yet, but probably will in the next week or two. I'm still deciding how to license it. Is your application something that would be compatible with the GPL? I actually don't think your requirements would be too difficult to implement. Here are my thoughts: On 11-01-19 02:37 PM, t...@ymail.com wrote: I would like to stretch the shape as they type reach character if the text they are entering is approaching one of the other fields on the shape, or the edge of the shape. I'd like to shrink the shape, if they rub out a character. They should be able to click into the middle of the text, and drive left and right with the cursor keys. I don't need to support tabbing from one field to the next. My experience has been that keyboard handling support is good in all of the major browsers (although I haven't tried IE), so I think you won't have any trouble attaching listeners and receiving events for each of the text elements. To resize your shapes, you would basically just get the bounding box of the text (using element.getBBox()) after every keyboard event, and then dynamically alter the path, as you suggested, or simply scale the shape. You would, however, need to roll your own cursor, keep track of its position and update its representation in DOM on left and right keypresses. You would also need to map its position to the index of the text element's textContent property, and use that to indsert or delete characters. The shape is quite complex, so expanding or shrinking while they type may need the path 'd' attribute value to be changed dynamically. Is that an okay idea, or do I need to try to design the shapes' geometry to avoid it? I think this depends on what you're trying to represent, and how complex you want the math to be when updating the shape. An easy way out might simply be to scale the shape such that its bounding box encompasses the text's bounding box. This would be very easy to implement. I'd also like to support drop-down lists around the text input (for 'standard values' or their most recent entries) Again, you would need to roll this widget from scratch, or use an embedded HTML menu inside a foreignObject. Would someone please point me at the stuff I should be reading or googling-for to understand the available approaches to text input? Simple searches like SVG text input doesn't seem to find anything helpful. Take a look at the spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html Especially the scripting interfaces: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#DOMInterfaces Do I need to handle every key stroke myself, or are there some helper mechanisms that I can hook into? For example, when I used to do X-Windows stuff, editing could be handled by a widget, but it was possible to look at every character too (both before and after the widget saw it, I think; 19 years ago, so I may be wrong). You need to handle every stroke yourself. I'm not aware of a higher-level mechanism, and I'm also not aware of any developer-facing GUI libraries that people have written around this low-level mechanism. I'd like to get reasonably wide deployment (when Firefox 4, and IE9 arrive). Should I be constraining myself to SVG 1.1, and ignore the SVG 1.2 (I see that 1.2 seems to have editable text support)? You will need to constrain yourself to SVG 1.1. Unfortunately, while SVG 1.2 does include support for editable text, I think that of all the browsers, currently only recent versions of Opera supports it. I have to say though, it's very impressive. They have a demo where you can edit text on a spiral path. Very cool stuff. Or, should I be using XHTML too, and abandon a pure SVG approach? Speaking from experience, if you don't need multiline text editing, I think you can put together a basic SVG text input widget in less than a day. However, using HTML would probably be less work, overall. HTML gives you text input widgets, which is certainly at a higher level than what SVG gives you. The thing I'm not sure about is whether it will be possible for you to get a proper bounding box from the embedded HTML text input element. This is probably something you would want to prototype. Good luck! Jake [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
Thomas Thank you for the advice. I wondered if something like that might be an answer, (my colleagues did that with a complex X-Windows UI, but that was 16 years ago!) so now I know!-) (Not the answer I had hoped for :-) I assume I need to define the XHTML name space, and then use that within my SVG? Thanks again GB-) --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, th_w@... th_w@... wrote: I tried something similar some time ago, and it's a pain. I'm not sure whether you can at all detect all possible keystrokes correctly, not to speak of accented characters and such. I'd probably go with an HTML input field inside a foreignObject right now, since the editable text currently is only supported by Opera, I believe. I would replace the to-be-edited-text with an input, and when editing is done, I would swap back the text element with updated content. I didn't try it, but I think it should be possible. Thomas W. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, gb_n_svg gbulmeruk@ wrote: I'd like to know what is the 'right way' to do text input in pure SVG? (I am building a pure SVG user interface.) I have lots of different shapes (over 100), each made from a group containing paths, rectangles and text elements (eventually filters too). The user can 'clone' any shape by dragging it and dropping. They need to be able to type some text into *one* of the text fields within the group, just one word or a number. (Some text is the applications labels, and can't be changed by the user) I would like to stretch the shape as they type reach character if the text they are entering is approaching one of the other fields on the shape, or the edge of the shape. I'd like to shrink the shape, if they rub out a character. They should be able to click into the middle of the text, and drive left and right with the cursor keys. I don't need to support tabbing from one field to the next. The shape is quite complex, so expanding or shrinking while they type may need the path 'd' attribute value to be changed dynamically. Is that an okay idea, or do I need to try to design the shapes' geometry to avoid it? I'd also like to support drop-down lists around the text input (for 'standard values' or their most recent entries) Would someone please point me at the stuff I should be reading or googling-for to understand the available approaches to text input? Simple searches like SVG text input doesn't seem to find anything helpful. Do I need to handle every key stroke myself, or are there some helper mechanisms that I can hook into? For example, when I used to do X-Windows stuff, editing could be handled by a widget, but it was possible to look at every character too (both before and after the widget saw it, I think; 19 years ago, so I may be wrong). I'd like to get reasonably wide deployment (when Firefox 4, and IE9 arrive). Should I be constraining myself to SVG 1.1, and ignore the SVG 1.2 (I see that 1.2 seems to have editable text support)? Or, should I be using XHTML too, and abandon a pure SVG approach? All help welcomed :-) GB-) - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
Jake --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Beard jbeard4@... wrote: I agree, it can be a pain to do with SVG 1.1, but it is possible. carto.net has had some example of textbox widgets since a long time: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/ Argh! Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten all about that stuff at carto.net They were very busy folks. It looks a bit long and ugly, but doing it in C would be too :-) Lively kernel rolled their own multi-line text editor for editing code: http://www.lively-kernel.org/ I've seen this, but I don't feel my JavaScript is good enough to get to grips with it. I am doing this SVG+JavaScript project to sharpen my understanding so that I *can* do that kind of stuff :-) And it just so happens that I've also been working on an SVG-based text editor for a course project this semester. I haven't released it yet, but probably will in the next week or two. I'm still deciding how to license it. Is your application something that would be compatible with the GPL? At the moment, it is primarily a vehicle to focus my efforts to get to lively-kernel quality, or OMeta-quality JavaScript'. It is secondarily a demo for some folks. For this sort of stuff, I think in terms of CC-BY-SA-NC (do what you like, except try to make money from my efforts) I actually don't think your requirements would be too difficult to implement. Here are my thoughts: Okay! On 11-01-19 02:37 PM, th_w@... wrote: I would like to stretch the shape as they type reach character if the text they are entering is approaching one of the other fields on the shape, or the edge of the shape. I'd like to shrink the shape, if they rub out a character. They should be able to click into the middle of the text, and drive left and right with the cursor keys. I don't need to support tabbing from one field to the next. My experience has been that keyboard handling support is good in all of the major browsers (although I haven't tried IE), so I think you won't have any trouble attaching listeners and receiving events for each of the text elements. Good. That would kill the whole idea otherwise. To resize your shapes, you would basically just get the bounding box of the text (using element.getBBox()) after every keyboard event, and then dynamically alter the path, as you suggested, or simply scale the shape. I can't scale the shapes. They are somewhat like interlocking jigsaw pieces, and scaling would break the interlock. I need to either change the path 'd' attribute dynamically, or carve each whole shape into multiple fragments so that I can scale, or more easily adjust, the piece which grows. I might try both. I am very curious how easy it will be to parse and decompose the path 'd' attribute, and how well it performs. You would, however, need to roll your own cursor, I assume there is a glyph which looks like an I beam insertion point. keep track of its position Yes and update its representation in DOM on left and right keypresses. Yes You would also need to map its position to the index of the text element's textContent property, and use that to indsert or delete characters. Yes It was a Long time ago, but in principle, I think I can do that because I have done it before (in C++ and Java). The shape is quite complex, so expanding or shrinking while they type may need the path 'd' attribute value to be changed dynamically. Is that an okay idea, or do I need to try to design the shapes' geometry to avoid it? I think this depends on what you're trying to represent, and how complex you want the math to be when updating the shape. An easy way out might simply be to scale the shape such that its bounding box encompasses the text's bounding box. This would be very easy to implement. Sadly that would make the shape too big 96% of the time (approximately :-). I can carve it into 'strips' vertically, and adjust the trapezoid or rectangle that needs to grow with the text, them splice that back into the path. I can leave it as separate SVG elements for now, but I am worried that filters won't 'tile' seamlessly later, and the edges of abutting, adjacent elements would be visible, when I want to add filter effects later. Maybe you or someone knows if that is a real concern? If filters *ALWAYS*, or some subset of filters *ALWAYS* produce seamless results when applied to a group of SVG elements, then I can make each shape from, maybe a dozen 'tiles', and just adjust the few that contain 'live' text I'd also like to support drop-down lists around the text input (for 'standard values' or their most recent entries) Again, you would need to roll this widget from scratch, or use an embedded HTML menu inside a foreignObject. Okay. Would someone please point me at the stuff I should be reading or googling-for to understand the available approaches to text input?
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Strategy for text input
On 11-01-19 06:53 PM, gb_n_svg wrote: Jake --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com, Jacob Beard jbeard4@... wrote: I agree, it can be a pain to do with SVG 1.1, but it is possible. carto.net has had some example of textbox widgets since a long time: http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/ Argh! Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten all about that stuff at carto.net They were very busy folks. It looks a bit long and ugly, but doing it in C would be too :-) I think carto.net has a single author, actually: Andreas Neumann. Also, just a note about SVG filters: I think they have only recently been added to Webkit, and so are not in currently release versions of Chrome and Safari. They are also not supported in IE9. Jake [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
