Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 02-12-2011 18:46, Bruce Cran wrote: > On 02/12/2011 09:44, Joel Dahl wrote: > > * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation > >would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing > > FreeBSD > >should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one > >more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration > >utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. > > This is an argument I see again and again. Yes, and now we've got bsdinstall instead of sysinstall. Much better. Some (most?) people want the installer to just install the OS and then get out of the way, as quickly as possible. -- Joel ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 02-12-2011 8:30, Ken Smith wrote: > On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 14:18 +0100, Erik Cederstrand wrote: > > Den 02/12/2011 kl. 10.44 skrev Joel Dahl: > > > > > On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: > > >> Author: kensmith > > >> Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 > > >> New Revision: 228192 > > >> URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 > > >> > > >> Log: > > >> Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, > > >> giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the > > >> user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf > > >> explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The > > >> folks > > >> who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. > > > > > > Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: > > > > > > * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation > > > would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing > > > FreeBSD > > > should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one > > > more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration > > > utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. > > > > > > * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is > > > that > > > really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with > > > debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing > > > is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed > > > ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in > > > turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? > > > > Maybe do away with the dialog, and then unconditionally enable textdump in > > rc.conf, adding the magic so textdump_enable="YES" sets up textdump with > > sane defaults. > > > > Thanks, > > Erik > > > > This just implements what we seemed to settle on during the latest round > of several discussions we've had about this issue. It comes up each > I've turned off dumpdev as part of converting head into a stable branch, > which is a step that got started way before I started being the one to > do it. I'll be happy to see what I just added go away but the > pre-condition for that is infrastructure that prevents crash dumps > (of any form, including textdumps) from filling up /var if the user > turns out to be clueless about them and doesn't realize they should > pay attention to them. Thanks for the explanation Ken. I'm fine with this being in the release but I was curious about the discussion resulting in this change (because I obviously didn't see it). It sounds like we've got another project to hack on before 10.0. :-) -- Joel ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 02/12/2011 09:44, Joel Dahl wrote: * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. This is an argument I see again and again. FreeBSD is a technical OS, where I would expect users would appreciate the chance to configure their systems without having to look up man pages for every detail (e.g. console settings). For people who want their OS to be as simple as possible there's PC-BSD. -- Bruce Cran ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 12/02/11 09:17, John Baldwin wrote: On 12/2/11 4:44 AM, Joel Dahl wrote: On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: Author: kensmith Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 New Revision: 228192 URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 Log: Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is that really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? All non-trivial software has bugs and eventually crashes. I don't expect this to be a surprise to someone installing a UNIX-like operating system. Note that this isn't the PC-BSD installer, but the FreeBSD installer. Also, there have been long discussions about this and ample time for other patches to be developed but they haven't. If you want this changed, implement the alternate solution. Until then this is better than not having it at all. This was also my conclusion when Ken asked me to review this patch. I also don't want the installer to become bloated and made the same original objection, but (a) this patch existed and (b) the long discussion meant that Ken felt it was a particular important decision that deserved its own screen. In particular, the explanation of why you might or might not want it was larger than could fit in a line in the regular services screen and the matter may require some thought. -Nathan ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 12/2/11 4:44 AM, Joel Dahl wrote: On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: Author: kensmith Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 New Revision: 228192 URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 Log: Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is that really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? All non-trivial software has bugs and eventually crashes. I don't expect this to be a surprise to someone installing a UNIX-like operating system. Note that this isn't the PC-BSD installer, but the FreeBSD installer. Also, there have been long discussions about this and ample time for other patches to be developed but they haven't. If you want this changed, implement the alternate solution. Until then this is better than not having it at all. -- John Baldwin ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On Fri, 2011-12-02 at 14:18 +0100, Erik Cederstrand wrote: > Den 02/12/2011 kl. 10.44 skrev Joel Dahl: > > > On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: > >> Author: kensmith > >> Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 > >> New Revision: 228192 > >> URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 > >> > >> Log: > >> Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, > >> giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the > >> user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf > >> explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks > >> who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. > > > > Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: > > > > * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation > > would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD > > should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one > > more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration > > utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. > > > > * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is > > that > > really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with > > debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing > > is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed > > ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in > > turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? > > Maybe do away with the dialog, and then unconditionally enable textdump in > rc.conf, adding the magic so textdump_enable="YES" sets up textdump with sane > defaults. > > Thanks, > Erik > This just implements what we seemed to settle on during the latest round of several discussions we've had about this issue. It comes up each I've turned off dumpdev as part of converting head into a stable branch, which is a step that got started way before I started being the one to do it. I'll be happy to see what I just added go away but the pre-condition for that is infrastructure that prevents crash dumps (of any form, including textdumps) from filling up /var if the user turns out to be clueless about them and doesn't realize they should pay attention to them. At least as of the last time we discussed it this knob I just added is a compromise between people who worry about crash dumps going unattended and filling /var versus the people who want us to be able to collect debugging information from the users who submit PRs *and* provide an *extremely* easy way for said users to turn it on/off. I normally hate dragging what others do into the discussions but I know of several Linux's that offer to enable kdump in their installer so we're not alone in that regard. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensm...@freebsd.org there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodor Geisel | signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
Den 02/12/2011 kl. 10.44 skrev Joel Dahl: > On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: >> Author: kensmith >> Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 >> New Revision: 228192 >> URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 >> >> Log: >> Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, >> giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the >> user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf >> explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks >> who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. > > Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: > > * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation > would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD > should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one > more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration > utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. > > * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is that > really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with > debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing > is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed > ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in > turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? Maybe do away with the dialog, and then unconditionally enable textdump in rc.conf, adding the magic so textdump_enable="YES" sets up textdump with sane defaults. Thanks, Erik___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
On 02-12-2011 0:38, Ken Smith wrote: > Author: kensmith > Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011 > New Revision: 228192 > URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192 > > Log: > Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps, > giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the > user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf > explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks > who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this. Hmm. Two things I'd like to bring up: * Not specifically aimed at this commit, but my recommendation would be that we keep bsdinstall as simple as possible: installing FreeBSD should require a minimum amount of keystrokes. I realise this is just one more screen, but I hope we don't turn bsdinstall into a configuration utility where you can disable/enable just about anything in rc.conf. * Mentioning future system crashes during installation feels awkward. Is that really what we want? I understand the problem and how this helps us with debugging, but this is like saying to users that what they are installing is unstable and that it'll eventuelly crash and die. I know we discussed ways of making crash dumps smarter in order to not fill up /var, which in turn would allow us to always have it on. Maybe that is the right path? -- Joel ___ svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-head To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-head-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
svn commit: r228192 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts
Author: kensmith
Date: Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011
New Revision: 228192
URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/228192
Log:
Add a screen that asks if the user would like to enable crash dumps,
giving them a very brief description of the trade-offs. Whether the
user opts in or out add an entry to what will become /etc/rc.conf
explaining what dumpdev is and how to turn on/off crash dumps. The folks
who handle interacting with users submitting PRs have asked for this.
Reviewed by: nwhitehorn
MFC after:1 day
Modified:
head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts/services
Modified: head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts/services
==
--- head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts/services Thu Dec 1 22:50:10 2011
(r228191)
+++ head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts/services Fri Dec 2 00:38:47 2011
(r228192)
@@ -26,6 +26,8 @@
#
# $FreeBSD$
+: ${DIALOG_OK=0}
+
if [ -f $BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services ]; then
eval `sed -e s/YES/on/I -e s/NO/off/I
$BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services`
else
@@ -51,3 +53,15 @@ for daemon in $DAEMONS; do
echo ${daemon}_enable=\"YES\" >> $BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services
done
+echo \# Set dumpdev to \"AUTO\" to enable crash dumps, \"NO\" to disable >> \
+ $BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services
+
+dialog --backtitle "FreeBSD Installer" --title "Dumpdev Configuration" \
+ --nocancel --yesno \
+ "Would you like to enable crash dumps? If you start having problems
with the system it can help the FreeBSD developers debug the problem. But the
crash dumps can take up a lot of disk space in /var." 0 0
+
+if [ $? -eq $DIALOG_OK ]; then
+ echo dumpdev=\"AUTO\" >> $BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services
+else
+ echo dumpdev=\"NO\" >> $BSDINSTALL_TMPETC/rc.conf.services
+fi
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