Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Am 20.3.2009 0:29 Uhr, Tonnerre Lombard schrieb: For that it would make sense, if we would get in contact with the political parties. At the moment, it seems that none of the parties in the parliament have an opinion on this issue. That is of course also very important. Firstly, politicians need to be educated on these issues; secondly, I would also dislike it if someone just calls me when he needs me to vote for something he wants and then leaves me alone again, without building up any relationship or explaining his thoughts. Feels a bit like abuse, eh? Instead of educating politicians it would make more sense, if the IT people would be more involved in politics. The IT industry is doing more for the GDI (BIP) than the farmers, but unfortunately we are not organized. Either way, the number one priority is still to submit a response to the proposal, then the lobbying can be #2 on the agenda. Friday evening I was at an Apéro and I had personal contact with the FDP Nationalrat Markus Hutter. I've spoke with him and he promised me to bring up this topic at the Rechtskomission. Ihsan -- ih...@dogan.ch http://blog.dogan.ch/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Ihsan Dogan schrieb: Instead of educating politicians it would make more sense, if the IT people would be more involved in politics. The IT industry is doing more for the GDI (BIP) than the farmers, but unfortunately we are not organized. We also have no means to deliver kilo-gallons of slurry to the front-door of the parliament ;-) Also, farmers have much more means to apply pressure to the public - it's not easy to replace their goods services on short-notice and they are mostly self-employed. Our work has been commoditized to the point where we are replaceable almost immediately - and most of us are employees. Those who are not are replaceable even easier And all the heavy-lifting of the infrastructure is done by big corporations that never go on strike or deny service to their customers (which is the usual way pressure groups like garbage-men and farmers get their agenda through). A part of reality is also, of course, that most of what we do is not really essential - superfluous luxury so to speak. People need food, water, shelter (and garbage-collection). People can survive without email (though we work hard to convince them otherwise) ;-) Rainer ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Hi Folks, I also thought today that even the Schools for IT should position in this discussion... I will try to reach the BBW Winterthur which I am a student of (and some apprentices of members of this mailinglist, too btw) I will also try to reach the TBZ in this purpose I think we should try to collect organisations which will work together, I can also speak for Gnupingu and the Lug Kreuzlingen Silvan Am 23.03.2009 um 17:44 schrieb Rainer Duffner: Ihsan Dogan schrieb: Instead of educating politicians it would make more sense, if the IT people would be more involved in politics. The IT industry is doing more for the GDI (BIP) than the farmers, but unfortunately we are not organized. We also have no means to deliver kilo-gallons of slurry to the front-door of the parliament ;-) Also, farmers have much more means to apply pressure to the public - it's not easy to replace their goods services on short-notice and they are mostly self-employed. Our work has been commoditized to the point where we are replaceable almost immediately - and most of us are employees. Those who are not are replaceable even easier And all the heavy-lifting of the infrastructure is done by big corporations that never go on strike or deny service to their customers (which is the usual way pressure groups like garbage-men and farmers get their agenda through). A part of reality is also, of course, that most of what we do is not really essential - superfluous luxury so to speak. People need food, water, shelter (and garbage-collection). People can survive without email (though we work hard to convince them otherwise) ;-) Rainer ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
On Monday 23 March 2009, Rainer Duffner wrote: [..] People can survive without email I am tempted to doubt that. The reactions to mail outage suggest the contrary ;-) have fun, Michi ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Michael Naef schrieb: On Monday 23 March 2009, Rainer Duffner wrote: [..] People can survive without email I am tempted to doubt that. The reactions to mail outage suggest the contrary ;-) Well, it depends. I survived a week without email on my holiday. ;-) But our customers' business sort-of depends on email-availability, yes. Can you eat/drink email? Can you breath email? Can you email the garbage away? ;-) Nope, it's fully virtual. Email's non-availability is only an issue, if you're the only one without it. If everybody else didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a problem. Rainer ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
On 23.03.2009, at 18:28, Rainer Duffner wrote: Michael Naef schrieb: On Monday 23 March 2009, Rainer Duffner wrote: [..] People can survive without email I am tempted to doubt that. The reactions to mail outage suggest the contrary ;-) Well, it depends. I survived a week without email on my holiday. ;-) But our customers' business sort-of depends on email-availability, yes. Can you eat/drink email? Can you breath email? Can you email the garbage away? ;-) Nope, it's fully virtual. Email's non-availability is only an issue, if you're the only one without it. If everybody else didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a problem. Whole industries depend on it. Without e-mail my business would be dead. In todays world communication is a vital issue to the service industry. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
On 23.03.2009, at 21:31, Andreas Fink wrote: On 23.03.2009, at 18:28, Rainer Duffner wrote: Michael Naef schrieb: On Monday 23 March 2009, Rainer Duffner wrote: [..] People can survive without email I am tempted to doubt that. The reactions to mail outage suggest the contrary ;-) Well, it depends. I survived a week without email on my holiday. ;-) But our customers' business sort-of depends on email-availability, yes. Can you eat/drink email? Can you breath email? Can you email the garbage away? ;-) Nope, it's fully virtual. Email's non-availability is only an issue, if you're the only one without it. If everybody else didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a problem. Whole industries depend on it. Without e-mail my business would be dead. In todays world communication is a vital issue to the service industry. The question I usually ask people is: If I gave you a choice between taking down your email-system or your PBX, what would you choose? Everyone says to kill the phones. I think that's a good measure of relevance. Chris ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Salut, On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:46:12AM +0100, Ihsan Dogan wrote: Instead of educating politicians it would make more sense, if the IT people would be more involved in politics. The IT industry is doing more for the GDI (BIP) than the farmers, but unfortunately we are not organized. That's maybe a good long term vision but I don't see that happen at this precise moment. Either way, the number one priority is still to submit a response to the proposal, then the lobbying can be #2 on the agenda. Friday evening I was at an Apéro and I had personal contact with the FDP Nationalrat Markus Hutter. I've spoke with him and he promised me to bring up this topic at the Rechtskomission. Very good! Just please ensure beforehand that he understood the issue. ;-) Tonnerre pgpfxrlMO40Yt.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Fwd: Re: Hackerparagraph
Salut, On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:18:08PM +0100, Patrick Tybo wrote: About the blacklist: tcpdumd/snoop and wireshark: no way, maybe metasploit on a gray line, mostly 0day stuff floating from irc to email to email etc are a real problem. Can you give me a legal guarantee that tcpdump will in no case be considered as a hacker tool? No, you can't. It always depends on mood and understanding of the judge in question, and potentially other factors. Tonnerre pgplT3ZPnN5uI.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
