Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
Pim: Take the police there with you. This should add a sobering, legalizing effect to the whole ordeal because nothing about this sounds normal OR legal! If not the police, then take your lawyer so that the company can explain the details of this 'extraction excercize' to the attourney. To me this sounds (pardon my French everyone!) more like an INSERTION tnan an extraction! Cheers! Vinnie -Original Message- From: Will van Gulik [mailto:mailing-por...@porcus.ch] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 02:56 AM To: swinog@lists.swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] Extraction fees Hi Pim, First, I'm thinking that 16 hours and 2 (other) guys for 3 servers and some network devices looks a bit heavy. Maybe that's what they are counting for the time spent for those two guys. My point of view is that if they act like that after a long work period, it might be a place/company to avoid. However if you don't have pending bills, I don't see why they are charging you for extraction, that's really non sense. Will On 11/13/11 11:19 PM, Pim van Pelt wrote: Hi NOG! An ISP that I have had a ~4y relationship with has recently terminated the hosting for a small number of servers (3x 1U machine and a switch and a console server). For a while they were not able to return my equipment to me, but now they have sent me a friendly letter asking me to pay a significant sum of money (to the tune of 4000 CHF) extraction fee, and that I must accompany two engineers on-site for about 16 hours to safely remove the equipment. Is it common for swiss companies to terminate agreements and then send an invoice for returning the property? Feel free to drop me a note off-list. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
Hoi, Thank you to all who responded. As an additional note to this and considering the question came up a lot: there was not a contract for this project, it was employee-initiated in 2007 and management terminated in 2011, and there were no bills until after the equipment stopped pinging (ie the only invoice I've ever seen is this one to release my computers). groet, Pim -- Pim van Pelt p...@ipng.nl PBVP1-RIPE - http://www.ipng.nl/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
Pim: I am sorry my response was so complicated. I will now simplify my impressions of this whole event . The corespondence you have received from this hosting firm can be summarized in two words: RANSOM NOTE! Don't stand for this, Mate! Contact an attournez straightaway. Good Luck, Vinnie -Original Message- From: Pim van Pelt [mailto:p...@ipng.nl] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 04:03 AM To: swi...@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] Extraction fees Hoi, Thank you to all who responded. As an additional note to this and considering the question came up a lot: there was not a contract for this project, it was employee-initiated in 2007 and management terminated in 2011, and there were no bills until after the equipment stopped pinging (ie the only invoice I've ever seen is this one to release my computers). groet, Pim -- Pim van Pelt PBVP1-RIPE - http://www.ipng.nl/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:40:34 + vwat...@dancendrumarts.com wrote: Don't stand for this, Mate! Contact an attourney straightaway. What Vinnie says. Don't fall for it. It's unusual, unethical and likely illegal too. If you have proof of ownership for the hardware, try to get it out without overpaying. Paying for somebody to come to the colo to assist you getting your stuff out... ok. but 4kCHF is at least ten times more than reasonable. - Get proper legal help. Back then when AS42366 tried to extort money out of A250, I fell for it as I needed to get the servers out ASAP (unencrypted backup volumes which they threatened to sell off on ebay if I didn't pay what they demanded) and I'm still paying off today. (we fought in court and lost, bottom line: you signed that, you didn't have to. no proof you were forced/threatened, bad lawyer plus tech illiterate judge...). Don't repeat my mistake! :-) cheers, Michael ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
[swinog] Extraction fees
Hi NOG! An ISP that I have had a ~4y relationship with has recently terminated the hosting for a small number of servers (3x 1U machine and a switch and a console server). For a while they were not able to return my equipment to me, but now they have sent me a friendly letter asking me to pay a significant sum of money (to the tune of 4000 CHF) extraction fee, and that I must accompany two engineers on-site for about 16 hours to safely remove the equipment. Is it common for swiss companies to terminate agreements and then send an invoice for returning the property? Feel free to drop me a note off-list. -- Pim van Pelt p...@ipng.nl PBVP1-RIPE - http://www.ipng.nl/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
Hey Pim! [IANAL] but what does the contract say? If its not in there, or if there's no contract then I don't see what basis they have for raising any charges and holding your property (which in most jurisdictions they cant do unless you gave them an explicit right / lien in the contract). I'd check with someone more familiar with Swiss law and process but it sounds like threatening legal action and/or making a claim to a small items court might be a way to go. Good luck! Steve On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Pim van Pelt p...@ipng.nl wrote: Hi NOG! An ISP that I have had a ~4y relationship with has recently terminated the hosting for a small number of servers (3x 1U machine and a switch and a console server). For a while they were not able to return my equipment to me, but now they have sent me a friendly letter asking me to pay a significant sum of money (to the tune of 4000 CHF) extraction fee, and that I must accompany two engineers on-site for about 16 hours to safely remove the equipment. Is it common for swiss companies to terminate agreements and then send an invoice for returning the property? Feel free to drop me a note off-list. -- Pim van Pelt p...@ipng.nl PBVP1-RIPE - http://www.ipng.nl/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog -- Director / Founder IX Reach Ltd E: steve.wil...@ixreach.com M: +44 7966 048633 35 Jackson Court, High Wycombe, UK. HP15 7TZ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Extraction fees
Hi Pim, First, I'm thinking that 16 hours and 2 (other) guys for 3 servers and some network devices looks a bit heavy. Maybe that's what they are counting for the time spent for those two guys. My point of view is that if they act like that after a long work period, it might be a place/company to avoid. However if you don't have pending bills, I don't see why they are charging you for extraction, that's really non sense. Will On 11/13/11 11:19 PM, Pim van Pelt wrote: Hi NOG! An ISP that I have had a ~4y relationship with has recently terminated the hosting for a small number of servers (3x 1U machine and a switch and a console server). For a while they were not able to return my equipment to me, but now they have sent me a friendly letter asking me to pay a significant sum of money (to the tune of 4000 CHF) extraction fee, and that I must accompany two engineers on-site for about 16 hours to safely remove the equipment. Is it common for swiss companies to terminate agreements and then send an invoice for returning the property? Feel free to drop me a note off-list. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
