Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
maybe your not aware but skype is a p2p tool, servers just exists for the directory, or the gates .. so wiretapping is just possible on the gate while calling a PSTN partitiant. but as we allready heard most using skype, the possibility of badmans communication will stay P2P to confuse the wiretapping system, say in every conversation a bunch of triggerwords like: C4, bomb, nuclear, gaz, dynamite, cäsium, blow up... or whatever getting in your mind. Roger Am 8 Oct 2008 um 7:15 hat Peter Keel geschrieben: > * on the Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 06:50:54PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > I've done too much cmputer security, and now I've got a > > > déformation professionelle. I won't use closed software > > > for anything crucial like "communication"; > > > > You don't use Cisco's or Junipers? How do you use the Internet actually? > > It's a very different matter if a client is wired to use some specific > server of some company to initiate communication, and uses a closed > protocol too. For all I know this is like re-routing my communication > trough skypes servers so they can wiretap it. > > Cheers > Seegras > -- > "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve > neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin > "It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are > likely to end up with neither." -- Bruce Schneier > ___ > swinog mailing list > swinog@lists.swinog.ch > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog > ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
* on the Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 06:50:54PM +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > I've done too much cmputer security, and now I've got a > > déformation professionelle. I won't use closed software > > for anything crucial like "communication"; > > You don't use Cisco's or Junipers? How do you use the Internet actually? It's a very different matter if a client is wired to use some specific server of some company to initiate communication, and uses a closed protocol too. For all I know this is like re-routing my communication trough skypes servers so they can wiretap it. Cheers Seegras -- "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin "It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are likely to end up with neither." -- Bruce Schneier ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Hey, Ihsan, On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:53:28 +0200, Ihsan Dogan wrote: > One of the big reasons why people are buying commercial software > products is, that they can get support and SLA. Most of the open > source projects cannot provide that. Not by themselves, but you can get that support through other means, either from a distributor like Red Hat or Univention or from a solutions provider like us. Tonnerre signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Am 7.10.2008 8:47 Uhr, Marco Fretz schrieb: > That's not the point. Of course we don't check the whole source code. I > usually don't have a look at the code at all. But point is, it's code, > tested and build by a community not a closed company with their own, > secret business goals...! I don't want be a victim of global marketing > data collection and stuff like that... One of the big reasons why people are buying commercial software products is, that they can get support and SLA. Most of the open source projects cannot provide that. 99% people don't check the code and don't write the patches. So, where is the difference? There is none. What really matters is, that the interfaces (file format, protocol, hardware documention) are open an can be accesses by anyone. Ihsan -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.dogan.ch/ ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Salut, Attila, On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:31:10 +0200, Attila Kinali wrote: > Can you name some of these recent publications? > I'd be much interested to read them. Sag ich nicht, selber suchen. Tonnerre signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:11:45 +0200 Tonnerre Lombard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:38:56 +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > > The idea of open source is not so much that you get to check it > > yourself, but much more that it is open for hundreds of thousands of > > other people to check. If for instance the quality/security of a > > piece of code is proportional to the number of times it's been > > reviewed, then yes, open source is quite possibly more secure. > > You should read the more recent publications on the subject. The idea > that this actually happens is a pure illusion. Can you name some of these recent publications? I'd be much interested to read them. Attila Kinali -- If you want to walk fast, walk alone. If you want to walk far, walk together. -- African proverb ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Salut, Per, On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:38:56 +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > The idea of open source is not so much that you get to check it > yourself, but much more that it is open for hundreds of thousands of > other people to check. If for instance the quality/security of a > piece of code is proportional to the number of times it's been > reviewed, then yes, open source is quite possibly more secure. You should read the more recent publications on the subject. The idea that this actually happens is a pure illusion. I think that the advantage of Open Source does indeed lie in the fact that you have the ability to fix things yourself, and that, whatever you start, you have a large pool of preexistent code you can build on. And the ability to learn from it etc. Tonnerre signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Salut, Marco, On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:47:41 +0200, Marco Fretz wrote: > I usually don't have a look at the code at all. But point is, it's > code, tested and build by a community not a closed company with their > own, secret business goals...! I don't want be a victim of global > marketing data collection and stuff like that... Maybe you noticed already, maybe not, but in reality, Open Source communities tend to care a lot about marketing. This is why they try to disguise security patches as "performance enhancement" - oh wait, that was Apple. But indeed such things happen, in large amounts, even in the Open Source world. Tonnerre signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Jeroen Massar wrote: > Peter Keel wrote: >> * on the Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 07:02:18AM -0700, Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: >>> why doesn't someone create a public Skype chat for SwiNOG? >>> I think more people on this list have skype than IRC >>> client software (me, for example :-) >> I don't. And I WON'T. >> >> I've done too much cmputer security, and now I've got a >> déformation professionelle. I won't use closed software >> for anything crucial like "communication"; > > You don't use Cisco's or Junipers? How do you use the Internet actually? > Or for that matter, did you actually really get that BIOS source of your > computer and that of the video card etc etc? > > And of course, with Open Source: did you check every single line of the > source, and that of the compiler, and all the tools that that was made > with etc etc etc? Ah, indeed you didn't, thus please don't claim that > "Open Source" is "more secure" because you have the source, because it > is impossible to check. That's not the point. Of course we don't check the whole source code. I usually don't have a look at the code at all. But point is, it's code, tested and build by a community not a closed company with their own, secret business goals...! I don't want be a victim of global marketing data collection and stuff like that... and programms like skype for chatting are just unnecessary overhead! of course point is not that i want to use it over a satellite link :P > >> something where I can't even run the server myself (or decide whose server >> I want to use). > > Some people like A, some people like B. > > Some people like irc.swinog.ch, some people like > Undernet/IRCnet/EFnet/ whatever floats your boat. > > Greets, > Jeroen > > > > > > ___ > swinog mailing list > swinog@lists.swinog.ch > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Jeroen Massar wrote: > And of course, with Open Source: did you check every single line of > the source, and that of the compiler, and all the tools that that was > made with etc etc etc? Ah, indeed you didn't, thus please don't claim > that "Open Source" is "more secure" because you have the source, > because it is impossible to check. The idea of open source is not so much that you get to check it yourself, but much more that it is open for hundreds of thousands of other people to check. If for instance the quality/security of a piece of code is proportional to the number of times it's been reviewed, then yes, open source is quite possibly more secure. /Per Jessen, Herrliberg ZH ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
[swinog] Hot Red Flames (Was: IRC Server dead ?)
Peter Keel wrote: > * on the Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 07:02:18AM -0700, Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: >> why doesn't someone create a public Skype chat for SwiNOG? >> I think more people on this list have skype than IRC >> client software (me, for example :-) > > I don't. And I WON'T. > > I've done too much cmputer security, and now I've got a > déformation professionelle. I won't use closed software > for anything crucial like "communication"; You don't use Cisco's or Junipers? How do you use the Internet actually? Or for that matter, did you actually really get that BIOS source of your computer and that of the video card etc etc? And of course, with Open Source: did you check every single line of the source, and that of the compiler, and all the tools that that was made with etc etc etc? Ah, indeed you didn't, thus please don't claim that "Open Source" is "more secure" because you have the source, because it is impossible to check. > something where I can't even run the server myself (or decide whose server > I want to use). Some people like A, some people like B. Some people like irc.swinog.ch, some people like Undernet/IRCnet/EFnet/ whatever floats your boat. Greets, Jeroen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
