Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
Hi Greg, AndBible has always been able to display Psalm 119, even on low powered devices, and many people say that, far from being slow, it is very responsive. I can only think that Greg was getting confused with some other bible software. Martin On 19 October 2011 19:29, Greg Hellings greg.helli...@gmail.com wrote: Some time ago David pointed out the SIL Pathway project, which is a plugin for the Paratext. Paratext is a popular scripture translation editor which is available from the United Bible Societes (http://paratext.ubs-translations.org/) and is popularly used within Wycliffe Bible Translators. Paratext, from what I understand, natively operates in USFM for saving and editing files. Pathway is an FOSS plugin (http://code.google.com/p/pathway/) that SIL has developed for use with Paratext and FieldWorks which will facilitate digital publishing of works out of Paratext and into various media. It is mainly developed to help streamline the process of export and encourage the translators to consider things like copyright, licensing and DRM. It supports export at present to GoBible, PDF, E-Book (epub), Logos and Open Document Text (OpenOffice/LibreOffice). For the GoBible export, Pathway will actually create the entire .jar file ready for directly loading onto a cell phone. David had expressed surprise at why there was not method to export to a SWORD module but there was a method for GoBible export. I was down at the Wycliffe/SIL center in Dallas yesterday for the finale of their biennial Bible Translation conference. While there I had a chance to sit in on a talk being given about the uses of Pathway, its purposes and its aid to the WBT community. Afterwards I got to speak with Greg Trihus, who is the lead of that project about the absence of SWORD export. His comments were quite illuminating. The real thrust of the Pathway project is getting the scriptures into an electronic form that is useful for distribution on mobile devices or for print. As such they support GoBible for low-end machines, E-Book and Logos for smart phones, ODT for to-print media and PDF to cover all of the above. Several people in the discussion asked about getting the scriptures into a form where they could directly enter a scripture reference rather than having to scroll through an ebook or PDF on a smartphone (the Logos option supports that, but involves several more steps for the content author who needs to pass the file through the hands of several people at SIL and then on to Logos so the work can be hosted in the official Logos content system). Greg told me that he had considered the Android mobile options - since many of the target people with smart phones would be Android users - but when he had tested AndBible it had been woefully slow and had even crashed when opening longer passages like Psalms 119. Therefore he had avoided putting his own human resources onto developing a SWORD format exporter and was not advertising that through the Pathway project. He did leave me with a few action points which he would love to see: 1) Since Pathway is open source, he would welcome anyone from our community who wanted to develop a Paratext/Fieldworks - SWORD converter. The export is done through an XHTML/CSS pathway, and they are supporting any form of output, not just scriptures. This would include commentaries, dictionaries and general papers/books. Pathway is written in C#, so if there are any C# developers around looking for something to do, this would be a highly desired project which wouldn't be another Just write a front-end in my language because I want to contribution to both world-wide scripture distribution and CrossWire. 2) Improve the quality of AndBible (JSword based?) and/or Bishop (Troy's proof-of-concept frontend based on the SWORD library with Java bindings). There is a round-about way that SIL can publish these scriptures to the YouVersion application framework, but YouVersion does not incorporate any linkages with Dictionaries. Greg expressed a strong desire to see SWORD formats supported due to our ability to closely integrate a text with a lexicon/dictionary - a sister text which almost all WBT translation projects will develop in parallel with their scripture translation. Those of us over in the BibleTime world are also hoping to eventually support mobile versions of BibleTime, but the time frame for those is definitely long term since it would involve a major refactoring effort on BT to separate the backend code from the GUI portions before any work could begin on a mobile UI based on Qt. 3) Help with the C# bindings for SWORD. I know some people have talked about them in the past, but I don't know what state they might be in. Since Pathway is written in C#, it would be a great help to anyone writing a SWORD export path if they could access the engine bindings directly through C# rather than having to dump to a file and somehow
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
Did Greg Trihus or anyone else at the Dallas conference happen to mention the http://www.dsmedia.org/blog/publishing-usfm-encoded-bible-translations-mobile-phones-instantly USFMtag extension to Wikimedia servers? This is being developed by a programmer in Indonesia connected with http://www.dsmedia.org/ Distant Shores Media and the http://www.dsmedia.org/blog/introducing-door43-mobile-portal Door43 portal . It would seem to me that there could be a useful synergy between USFMtag and the Pathway project. And once it matures, might it be worthwhile to install this extension in the server for our Developer's Wiki? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pathway-SIL-GoBible-and-CrossWire-tp3919530p3921771.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
[sword-devel] Marking pre-verse titles?
The wiki page describes how to mark pre-verse titles. See http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles#Marking_pre-verse_titles Trouble is that in the example provided, one of the attributes does not validate against the OSIS 2.1.1 schema. The example given is Validating this within an otherwise valid OSIS XML file reports as follows: This prompts the obvious question, should the attribute value be rather than ? And if not, why not? btw. Is there anything else in this wiki page that might need further attention? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Marking-pre-verse-titles-tp3921887p3921887.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Marking pre-verse titles?
David, Can you provide more information? See below: In Him, DM On 10/20/2011 09:27 AM, David Haslam wrote: The wiki page describes how to mark pre-verse titles. See http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles#Marking_pre-verse_titles Trouble is that in the example provided, one of the attributes does not validate against the OSIS 2.1.1 schema. Which attribute is problematic? At a glance it looks good to me. The example given is What belongs here? Validating this within an otherwise valid OSIS XML file reports as follows: What belongs here? This prompts the obvious question, should the attribute value be rather than ? What fills in the blank? And if not, why not? btw. Is there anything else in this wiki page that might need further attention? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Marking-pre-verse-titles-tp3921887p3921887.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Marking pre-verse titles?
Evidently some folk could not read the original message, part of which read: Trouble is that in the example provided, one of the attributes does not validate against the OSIS 2.1.1 schema. The example given is verse osisID=Ps.3.1 sID=Ps.3.1 n=1/ title canonical=true subType=x-preverse type=sectionA Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son./title verse eID=Ps.3.1/ Validating this within an otherwise valid OSIS XML file reports as follows: Value 'section' does not match any member types (of the union). This prompts the obvious question, should the attribute value be x-section rather than section ? -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Marking-pre-verse-titles-tp3921887p3922108.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
Martin, My initial thought was Greg may have been using an early test version or a module which had some problems. A further problem that And Bible suffers from (YouVersion hits the same problem) is lack of fonts on Android systems. GoBible overcomes this by using Graphite somehow. For instance I'm looking at the Burmese Bible in AndBible right now and it displays a beautiful set of blank missing glyph boxes interrupted by occasional Arabic numerals for verse numbers. I will encourage him to re-look at the crash issue. Any ideas on the possibilities of including fonts with an application? --Greg On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Martin Denham mjden...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Greg, AndBible has always been able to display Psalm 119, even on low powered devices, and many people say that, far from being slow, it is very responsive. I can only think that Greg was getting confused with some other bible software. Martin On 19 October 2011 19:29, Greg Hellings greg.helli...@gmail.com wrote: Some time ago David pointed out the SIL Pathway project, which is a plugin for the Paratext. Paratext is a popular scripture translation editor which is available from the United Bible Societes (http://paratext.ubs-translations.org/) and is popularly used within Wycliffe Bible Translators. Paratext, from what I understand, natively operates in USFM for saving and editing files. Pathway is an FOSS plugin (http://code.google.com/p/pathway/) that SIL has developed for use with Paratext and FieldWorks which will facilitate digital publishing of works out of Paratext and into various media. It is mainly developed to help streamline the process of export and encourage the translators to consider things like copyright, licensing and DRM. It supports export at present to GoBible, PDF, E-Book (epub), Logos and Open Document Text (OpenOffice/LibreOffice). For the GoBible export, Pathway will actually create the entire .jar file ready for directly loading onto a cell phone. David had expressed surprise at why there was not method to export to a SWORD module but there was a method for GoBible export. I was down at the Wycliffe/SIL center in Dallas yesterday for the finale of their biennial Bible Translation conference. While there I had a chance to sit in on a talk being given about the uses of Pathway, its purposes and its aid to the WBT community. Afterwards I got to speak with Greg Trihus, who is the lead of that project about the absence of SWORD export. His comments were quite illuminating. The real thrust of the Pathway project is getting the scriptures into an electronic form that is useful for distribution on mobile devices or for print. As such they support GoBible for low-end machines, E-Book and Logos for smart phones, ODT for to-print media and PDF to cover all of the above. Several people in the discussion asked about getting the scriptures into a form where they could directly enter a scripture reference rather than having to scroll through an ebook or PDF on a smartphone (the Logos option supports that, but involves several more steps for the content author who needs to pass the file through the hands of several people at SIL and then on to Logos so the work can be hosted in the official Logos content system). Greg told me that he had considered the Android mobile options - since many of the target people with smart phones would be Android users - but when he had tested AndBible it had been woefully slow and had even crashed when opening longer passages like Psalms 119. Therefore he had avoided putting his own human resources onto developing a SWORD format exporter and was not advertising that through the Pathway project. He did leave me with a few action points which he would love to see: 1) Since Pathway is open source, he would welcome anyone from our community who wanted to develop a Paratext/Fieldworks - SWORD converter. The export is done through an XHTML/CSS pathway, and they are supporting any form of output, not just scriptures. This would include commentaries, dictionaries and general papers/books. Pathway is written in C#, so if there are any C# developers around looking for something to do, this would be a highly desired project which wouldn't be another Just write a front-end in my language because I want to contribution to both world-wide scripture distribution and CrossWire. 2) Improve the quality of AndBible (JSword based?) and/or Bishop (Troy's proof-of-concept frontend based on the SWORD library with Java bindings). There is a round-about way that SIL can publish these scriptures to the YouVersion application framework, but YouVersion does not incorporate any linkages with Dictionaries. Greg expressed a strong desire to see SWORD formats supported due to our ability to closely integrate a text with a lexicon/dictionary - a sister text which almost all WBT translation projects will develop in parallel with their scripture
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
David, On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:46 AM, David Haslam dfh...@googlemail.com wrote: Did Greg Trihus or anyone else at the Dallas conference happen to mention the http://www.dsmedia.org/blog/publishing-usfm-encoded-bible-translations-mobile-phones-instantly USFMtag extension to Wikimedia servers? During Greg's talk there was no mention of wiki pages. Then again, there is no interest in allowing wiki-style editing for a scripture work, so it's not really relevant to the people Pathway is trying to address. Paratext already includes very powerful features to allow group collaboration of scripture editing by leveraging the Mercurial library for file diffing, branching and merging back to the master copy on the translator's lead. Wikis are not very interesting for the work Wycliffe is doing in this area. Additionally I was only there on Tuesday. The conference extended from Friday through Tuesday, so it's possible someone else discussed wikis in a different discussion topic. This is being developed by a programmer in Indonesia connected with http://www.dsmedia.org/ Distant Shores Media and the http://www.dsmedia.org/blog/introducing-door43-mobile-portal Door43 portal . It would seem to me that there could be a useful synergy between USFMtag and the Pathway project. I'm not sure what useful synergy there would be. Paratext and Pathway do not support anything remotely like the wiki-style of interactions, and neither does Paratext use MediaWiki syntax. And once it matures, might it be worthwhile to install this extension in the server for our Developer's Wiki? I doubt it. Perhaps if we setup a second wiki for people who want to produce or create wiki-based Bibles, then it might be useful, but I doubt it would ever be useful on the Developer's Wiki. --Greg ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
Maybe you didn't delve deep enough into the detail of the Distant Shores Media blog post? The *USFMtag* extension to Wikimedia server is /not/ to facilitate further editing. It's to allow USFM content to be pasted as is into a wiki page. Once saved, the server extension will display the content as /properly formated/ Scripture content. This provides a rapid way to publish a USFM Bible (or Bible portion) such that even a mobile user (without edit privileges) can view the wiki page for that passage with the minimum of preprocessing having been required by the translation team. Once you grasp the concept, it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it's a brilliant concept. Hat's off to Tim Jore and his colleagues for the lateral thinking that led to this breakthrough. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pathway-SIL-GoBible-and-CrossWire-tp3919530p3922324.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
Greg wrote, GoBible overcomes this by using Graphite somehow. Well, I suppose some phone manufacturers may have designed in Graphite into their firmware, but the fact of the matter is that Go Bible relies entirely upon what Unicode font coverage has been provided by the mobile phone manufacturer. It's pretty rare for any phone to have font coverage for the whole of the Basic Multilingual Plane. Manufacturers tend to have firmware variants for different marketing regions, to keep their stock levels manageable. For some phone models, one might be able to rebrand the firmware so as to convert it for use in a different region, but in most cases, this would invalidate the warranty, and would always be at the user's own risk. Such services are also not free. Plus it's not just a text display issue. There is also the requirement to be able to write in any given language, in order to use the Go Bible search feature. Even if a particular [Nokia] phone can display [say] Amharic, that doesn't mean you can edit SMS messages in this language. Search item editing uses the same JSR as for SMS. As for fonts in Android devices, Martin Denham will know more about this, but from my own personal contact with the IT support guy for the *Pashto Zeray* translation, I have seen that it's feasible to customize Android font coverage to deal with the extended characters and their presentation forms required for Pashto, which are beyond those in either Arabic or Farsi. That being the case, even for scripts (such as for Myanmar and other languages) not yet supported by Google, there must be potential solutions, albeit requiring a lot of detailed knowledge as well as involving a lot of hard work. In one sense, Android (being open) is more amenable to such inventiveness than iOS. You can only display Bibles in PocketSword for those languages and scripts that have been built in or approved by Apple. You can ask Nic Carter for further details. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Pathway-SIL-GoBible-and-CrossWire-tp3919530p3922426.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 10:46 AM, David Haslam dfh...@googlemail.com wrote: Maybe you didn't delve deep enough into the detail of the Distant Shores Media blog post? You've caught me red handed! I simply read the title you assigned it and assumed I understood what it was talking about. That might prove slightly more interesting, but it's tough to say for sure. It would still be limited in the same way epub, PDF and Libre/OpenOffice export would be (not understanding scripture references natively). I'm not sure how much it would gain their objectives. The *USFMtag* extension to Wikimedia server is /not/ to facilitate further editing. It's to allow USFM content to be pasted as is into a wiki page. Once saved, the server extension will display the content as /properly formated/ Scripture content. This provides a rapid way to publish a USFM Bible (or Bible portion) such that even a mobile user (without edit privileges) can view the wiki page for that passage with the minimum of preprocessing having been required by the translation team. Once you grasp the concept, it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it's a brilliant concept. Definitely an excellent concept. I have trouble imagining how I would use it, but I feel that way about wikis in general. :) --Greg ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Pathway, SIL, GoBible and CrossWire
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David Haslam dfh...@googlemail.com wrote: Greg wrote, GoBible overcomes this by using Graphite somehow. Well, I suppose some phone manufacturers may have designed in Graphite into their firmware, but the fact of the matter is that Go Bible relies entirely upon what Unicode font coverage has been provided by the mobile phone manufacturer. It's pretty rare for any phone to have font coverage for the whole of the Basic Multilingual Plane. Manufacturers tend to have firmware variants for different marketing regions, to keep their stock levels manageable. It sounded, from Greg's talk, like they have modified the GoBible JAR file to leverage their Graphite library. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL). Somehow this allowed them to use GoBible with minority and unsupported scripts on phones which did not natively support the full range of Unicode coverage. The technology and library are very powerful. It could possibly be used by AndBible as well, since Android has relatively poor coverage of some Unicode ranges. I have just pulled out my phone, which is running a custom FroYo (2.2) ROM and it displayed basic Roman script and Arabic relatively well but fell flat on its face with extended Roman and didn't even attempt Burmese. iOS, on the other hand, has very excellent and extensive support for Unicode since it comes out of the OS X tradition and its very-well regarded support of non Western scripts. Across all the solutions (except for PDF, which embeds its own fonts in the file) they said they consistently found Android to be very lacking and weak in support of non-Roman scripts but iOS to be excellent. This fits with my experience as well. --Greg ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Marking pre-verse titles?
On 10/20/2011 10:40 AM, David Haslam wrote: Evidently some folk could not read the original message, part of which read: Trouble is that in the example provided, one of the attributes does not validate against the OSIS 2.1.1 schema. The example given is verse osisID=Ps.3.1 sID=Ps.3.1 n=1/ title canonical=true subType=x-preverse type=sectionA Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son./title verse eID=Ps.3.1/ Validating this within an otherwise valid OSIS XML file reports as follows: Value 'section' does not match any member types (of the union). This prompts the obvious question, should the attribute value be x-section rather than section ? It could be x-section, but it'd be better to be absent or one of the allowable choices. The title's type value is ignored by the SWORD engine. It is used by osis2mod when the title is before the first verse in a chapter. Here are those rules, taken from osis2mod: // 2) Between the opening of a chapter and the first verse, the material is split between the introduction of the chapter //and the first verse of the chapter. //A div with a type of section will be taken as surrounding verses. //A title of type other than main, chapter or sub, will be taken as a title for the verse. //Once one of these conditions is met, the division between chapter introduction and pre-verse is set. Everywhere else in osis2mod, it is ignored. Currently, the SWORD engine uses subType=x-preverse to know that the verse number should follow the heading. There is code in there that is supposed to recognize everything between two markers as being pre-verse material, but it does not work. When that works, the subType=x-preverse should not be needed. (It shouldn't be needed now as osis2mod knows when a title is pre-verse and can mark it as such.) Hope this helps. In Him, DM -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Marking-pre-verse-titles-tp3921887p3922108.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Marking pre-verse titles?
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:40 AM, David Haslam dfh...@googlemail.com wrote: Evidently some folk could not read the original message, part of which read: This seems to happen because fixed width text doesn't get through Nabble into the email list (it's been observable with your emails for a while). Is there a reason you don't use it as an email list rather than using Nabble? God Bless, Ben - For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” Ezekiel 18:32 (ESV) ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
