[sword-devel] Bindings for 1.7 - was Aw: Re: Repositories for free and open works

[Peter von Kaehne]

> Von: "Mark Trompell" 

> Did you reply to the wrong thread?


He did. I will respond here and on the correct thread 

 
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
>  wrote:
> > Peter,
> >
> > One last shot here before I give up and punt on this one before packaging
> > things up.

Many thanks! This fixed Perl! Python is still failing.

>>> import Sword
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "Sword.py", line 26, in 
_Sword = swig_import_helper()
  File "Sword.py", line 18, in swig_import_helper
import _Sword
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/_Sword.so: undefined 
symbol: ublock_getCode_48




> >
> > I've change the bindings autotools system to use pkg-config to get
> > appropriate flags.  Could you try again and let me know?  I know you are on
> > 'holiday', and I appreciate any time you spend.
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/10/2013 12:36 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2013-07-10 at 01:12 +0300, Jaak Ristioja wrote:
> >>   If not, I suggest we create such
> >>>
> >>> repositories to ease distribution and mirroring of works.
> >>>
> >> Considering that we have had a very extensive discussion only 6 months ago
> >> on the lack of _any_ desire to start or support mirroring I am not 
> >> convinced
> >> that this is a great idea.
> >>
> >> re mirroring: this was summarily rejected - and not just for license
> >> reasons, but also for reasons of consistency accross mirrors and ability to
> >> push through rapidly updates or changes (including, unfortunately, from 
> >> time
> >> to time changes in licensing, when e.g. it became obvious that a permission
> >> has been withdrawn or that a supposed public domain module was after all 
> >> not
> >> in the PD)
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> ___
> >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Trompell
> 
> Foresight Linux Xfce Edition
> Cause your desktop should be freaking cool
> (and Xfce)
> 
> ___
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> 

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Re: [sword-devel] Repositories for free and open works

[Mark Trompell]

Did you reply to the wrong thread?

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
 wrote:
> Peter,
>
> One last shot here before I give up and punt on this one before packaging
> things up.
>
> I've change the bindings autotools system to use pkg-config to get
> appropriate flags.  Could you try again and let me know?  I know you are on
> 'holiday', and I appreciate any time you spend.
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
> On 07/10/2013 12:36 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2013-07-10 at 01:12 +0300, Jaak Ristioja wrote:
>>   If not, I suggest we create such
>>>
>>> repositories to ease distribution and mirroring of works.
>>>
>> Considering that we have had a very extensive discussion only 6 months ago
>> on the lack of _any_ desire to start or support mirroring I am not convinced
>> that this is a great idea.
>>
>> re mirroring: this was summarily rejected - and not just for license
>> reasons, but also for reasons of consistency accross mirrors and ability to
>> push through rapidly updates or changes (including, unfortunately, from time
>> to time changes in licensing, when e.g. it became obvious that a permission
>> has been withdrawn or that a supposed public domain module was after all not
>> in the PD)
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>
> ___
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page



-- 
Mark Trompell

Foresight Linux Xfce Edition
Cause your desktop should be freaking cool
(and Xfce)

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Re: [sword-devel] Ubuntu Touch Bible app

[Gary Holmlund]

?,

I think we should talk about our goals and our development plans. I 
think this should be done on the BibleTime list (bt-de...@crosswire.org)


Gary

On 07/10/2013 09:38 AM, ? ?? wrote:

Hi, just would like add my points to this conversation.

If Ubuntu Phone OS supports Qt C++ development, why not to give a try 
to existing Sword Qt Project? BibleTime Mini is now at releasing 
development stage and have relative long development history. It use 
QtCreator *.pro-file based building/deployment system, so you are able 
to just open it and build. If you are looking for place to place 
efforts in Bible software development, it is good point too 
collaborate too, because your work will be available on other 
platforms (Android, IOS, Symbian, and other packages are already been 
made).


I have plans to add QML support for some platforms (iOS and Android) 
to add cool looking controls and animations to ui transitions.


By the way, Gary, is there any opportunity to unite efforts on both 
BibleTime Mini and BibleTime Mobile from my side? I think together we 
are able to produce better application for users.


Let God bless you.




2013/7/4 Israel mailto:israeld...@gmail.com>>

Hi everyone,
There are a few of us who have banded together to start work on a
Ubuntu Touch SWORD app.  Is anyone else working on one?
If anyone is interested please join us on github.
https://github.com/uBible
We are currently in the process of working out the beginning
details, such as UI setup, features, etc
May the Lord Jesus bless you all!

-- 
Regards



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Re: [sword-devel] Repositories for free and open works

[Troy A. Griffitts]

Peter,

One last shot here before I give up and punt on this one before 
packaging things up.


I've change the bindings autotools system to use pkg-config to get 
appropriate flags.  Could you try again and let me know?  I know you are 
on 'holiday', and I appreciate any time you spend.


Troy



On 07/10/2013 12:36 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:

On Wed, 2013-07-10 at 01:12 +0300, Jaak Ristioja wrote:
  If not, I suggest we create such

repositories to ease distribution and mirroring of works.


Considering that we have had a very extensive discussion only 6 months ago on 
the lack of _any_ desire to start or support mirroring I am not convinced that 
this is a great idea.

re mirroring: this was summarily rejected - and not just for license reasons, 
but also for reasons of consistency accross mirrors and ability to push through 
rapidly updates or changes (including, unfortunately, from time to time changes 
in licensing, when e.g. it became obvious that a permission has been withdrawn 
or that a supposed public domain module was after all not in the PD)

Peter

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Re: [sword-devel] Parallel Display of Differing V11n Systems (was: Versifications and verse order)

[Chris Burrell]

sorry, this:
Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@repentance-prayer
Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro

would be better as:

Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@musical-instruction
Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro

Chris



On 10 July 2013 22:25, Chris Burrell  wrote:

> I don't think an explicit superset is required. An implicit one yes. By
> that I mean that if you allow a versification X to map to the known KJV
> Versification with parts (say 'a' 'b', or 'firstSentence',
> 'secondSentence', etc. - i.e. arbitrary parts), then it means you can go
> from X to Y via the KJV without losing resolution.
>
> For the Psalms all I was intending to have is for example (taken example
> from memory for Leningrad - so might be the wrong psalm).
>
> Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@a
> Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@b
> Psalm.51.3-21=Psalm.51.1-19
>
> Meaning Leningrad (left) maps to the KJV verses (right). The part suffixes
> are only used if you are going from Leningrad through the KJV to say
> Synodal. If the Synodal were to declare exactly the same breakdown as
> above, also using the parts @a and @b it would mean you could end go from
> Psalm.50.1 to Psalm.50.1 as opposed to Psalm.51.1=>Psalm.51.0=>Psalm.51.1-2
>
> In the above, the superset of keys really is:
> Psalm.51.0@a, Psalm51.0@b, and Psalm.51.1, Psalm.51.2, etc.
>
> You could obviously chose more meaningful part names say:
> Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@repentance-prayer
> Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro
>
> Or obviously, just keep track somewhere of what those parts really mean in
> practice.
>
> I think in terms of displays, there are really many options. Two things
> I'm looking at:
>
> * warning the user if for some reason we're displaying more verse ranges
> than the original passage... In other words, if we've broken 1 range into
> 2, and therefore omitted displaying some verses (because they don't map to
> the original passage), then we warn the user to say "it's not an error, and
> you're not seeing everything on purpose). The alternative is to somehow
> decide to show the missing verses - and then the complication is where do
> you put the missing verse in the verse order.
>
> * warning the user if you're displaying a verse more than once (nice to
> tell the user, hey, because of versification issues, this verse shouldn't
> be there twice, but we think it's beneficial to display twice because it
> really does map to both source verses).
>
>
> * Absent verses, I'm leaving blank at the moment.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 10 July 2013 17:02, Костя Маслюк  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, when i try to imagine your conception of 'superset', i found
>> verses scattered all around the room after translation procedure. Have you
>> any visual representation of what you would like to achieve in final, or
>> would you make such a table by your self?
>>
>> Should verses content be always equivalent in parallel view?
>>
>> What a text should fill the gaps? This is most confusing to me, module
>> simply does not contain corresponding content, haven't clue what it could
>> be...
>>
>> If we start to translating ListKey superset and displaying its content,
>> we can got long enough recursion, for example in Psalms, all the book will
>> be displayed when user request verse in chapter #3.
>>
>>
>> I have added rough draft of Parallel display with respect of av11n
>> mappings in BibleTime Mini:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/11a3dvdz0yu8xf3/boundle.zip
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/4 Troy A. Griffitts 
>>
>> Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are logically
>>> complex and are one of the reasons we haven't finalized any additions to
>>> the core SWORD library to support this-- though I greatly appreciate the
>>> contributions made by Костя.
>>>
>>> Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for "OT
>>> Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23:
>>>
>>> http://crosswire.org/study/**parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=**
>>> NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&**key=Dan.3.23#cv
>>>
>>> How should this look?
>>>
>>> The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of Azariah and the
>>> Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted between what we traditionally
>>> think of as verses 23 and 24. This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different
>>> content than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed
>>> from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the
>>> LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal content, thus verse 91 in the
>>> LXX picking back up where verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal
>>> insertion), continues.
>>>
>>> The web interface above always displays in windows of 1 chapter. Thus
>>> the user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23.
>>>
>>> There are a few questions to answer.
>>>
>>> What if they had asked for verse 24?
>>>
>>> What content do we show?
>>>
>>> Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as

Re: [sword-devel] Parallel Display of Differing V11n Systems (was: Versifications and verse order)

[Chris Burrell]

I don't think an explicit superset is required. An implicit one yes. By
that I mean that if you allow a versification X to map to the known KJV
Versification with parts (say 'a' 'b', or 'firstSentence',
'secondSentence', etc. - i.e. arbitrary parts), then it means you can go
from X to Y via the KJV without losing resolution.

For the Psalms all I was intending to have is for example (taken example
from memory for Leningrad - so might be the wrong psalm).

Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@a
Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@b
Psalm.51.3-21=Psalm.51.1-19

Meaning Leningrad (left) maps to the KJV verses (right). The part suffixes
are only used if you are going from Leningrad through the KJV to say
Synodal. If the Synodal were to declare exactly the same breakdown as
above, also using the parts @a and @b it would mean you could end go from
Psalm.50.1 to Psalm.50.1 as opposed to Psalm.51.1=>Psalm.51.0=>Psalm.51.1-2

In the above, the superset of keys really is:
Psalm.51.0@a, Psalm51.0@b, and Psalm.51.1, Psalm.51.2, etc.

You could obviously chose more meaningful part names say:
Psalm.51.1=Psalm.51.0@repentance-prayer
Psalm.51.2=Psalm.51.0@bathsheba-intro

Or obviously, just keep track somewhere of what those parts really mean in
practice.

I think in terms of displays, there are really many options. Two things I'm
looking at:

* warning the user if for some reason we're displaying more verse ranges
than the original passage... In other words, if we've broken 1 range into
2, and therefore omitted displaying some verses (because they don't map to
the original passage), then we warn the user to say "it's not an error, and
you're not seeing everything on purpose). The alternative is to somehow
decide to show the missing verses - and then the complication is where do
you put the missing verse in the verse order.

* warning the user if you're displaying a verse more than once (nice to
tell the user, hey, because of versification issues, this verse shouldn't
be there twice, but we think it's beneficial to display twice because it
really does map to both source verses).


* Absent verses, I'm leaving blank at the moment.

Chris



On 10 July 2013 17:02, Костя Маслюк  wrote:

> Sorry, when i try to imagine your conception of 'superset', i found verses
> scattered all around the room after translation procedure. Have you any
> visual representation of what you would like to achieve in final, or would
> you make such a table by your self?
>
> Should verses content be always equivalent in parallel view?
>
> What a text should fill the gaps? This is most confusing to me, module
> simply does not contain corresponding content, haven't clue what it could
> be...
>
> If we start to translating ListKey superset and displaying its content, we
> can got long enough recursion, for example in Psalms, all the book will be
> displayed when user request verse in chapter #3.
>
>
> I have added rough draft of Parallel display with respect of av11n
> mappings in BibleTime Mini:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/11a3dvdz0yu8xf3/boundle.zip
>
>
>
> 2013/7/4 Troy A. Griffitts 
>
> Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are logically
>> complex and are one of the reasons we haven't finalized any additions to
>> the core SWORD library to support this-- though I greatly appreciate the
>> contributions made by Костя.
>>
>> Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for "OT
>> Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23:
>>
>> http://crosswire.org/study/**parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=**
>> NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&**key=Dan.3.23#cv
>>
>> How should this look?
>>
>> The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of Azariah and the
>> Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted between what we traditionally
>> think of as verses 23 and 24. This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different
>> content than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed
>> from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the
>> LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal content, thus verse 91 in the
>> LXX picking back up where verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal
>> insertion), continues.
>>
>> The web interface above always displays in windows of 1 chapter. Thus the
>> user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23.
>>
>> There are a few questions to answer.
>>
>> What if they had asked for verse 24?
>>
>> What content do we show?
>>
>> Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as his primary
>> Bible, and is interested in seeing the parallel verses to the NASB in the
>> other texts. He is not interested in seeing apocryphal insertions. He
>> primarily cares about the NASB and only glances at the content from the
>> other modules when interested in seeing the parallel.
>>
>> This is how the web frontend, and all current SWORD based frontends
>> *should* currently work w

Re: [sword-devel] Ubuntu Touch Bible app

[Костя Маслюк]

Hi, just would like add my points to this conversation.

If Ubuntu Phone OS supports Qt C++ development, why not to give a try to
existing Sword Qt Project? BibleTime Mini is now at releasing development
stage and have relative long development history. It use QtCreator
*.pro-file based building/deployment system, so you are able to just open
it and build. If you are looking for place to place efforts in Bible
software development, it is good point too collaborate too, because your
work will be available on other platforms (Android, IOS, Symbian, and other
packages are already been made).

I have plans to add QML support for some platforms (iOS and Android) to add
cool looking controls and animations to ui transitions.

By the way, Gary, is there any opportunity to unite efforts on both
BibleTime Mini and BibleTime Mobile from my side? I think together we are
able to produce better application for users.

Let God bless you.




2013/7/4 Israel 

> Hi everyone,
> There are a few of us who have banded together to start work on a Ubuntu
> Touch SWORD app.  Is anyone else working on one?
> If anyone is interested please join us on github.
> https://github.com/uBible
> We are currently in the process of working out the beginning details, such
> as UI setup, features, etc
> May the Lord Jesus bless you all!
>
> --
> Regards
>
>
> __**_
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Parallel Display of Differing V11n Systems (was: Versifications and verse order)

[Костя Маслюк]

Sorry, when i try to imagine your conception of 'superset', i found verses
scattered all around the room after translation procedure. Have you any
visual representation of what you would like to achieve in final, or would
you make such a table by your self?

Should verses content be always equivalent in parallel view?

What a text should fill the gaps? This is most confusing to me, module
simply does not contain corresponding content, haven't clue what it could
be...

If we start to translating ListKey superset and displaying its content, we
can got long enough recursion, for example in Psalms, all the book will be
displayed when user request verse in chapter #3.


I have added rough draft of Parallel display with respect of av11n mappings
in BibleTime Mini:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/11a3dvdz0yu8xf3/boundle.zip



2013/7/4 Troy A. Griffitts 

> Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are logically
> complex and are one of the reasons we haven't finalized any additions to
> the core SWORD library to support this-- though I greatly appreciate the
> contributions made by Костя.
>
> Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for "OT
> Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23:
>
> http://crosswire.org/study/**parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=**
> NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&**key=Dan.3.23#cv
>
> How should this look?
>
> The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of Azariah and the
> Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted between what we traditionally
> think of as verses 23 and 24. This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different
> content than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed
> from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the
> LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal content, thus verse 91 in the
> LXX picking back up where verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal
> insertion), continues.
>
> The web interface above always displays in windows of 1 chapter. Thus the
> user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23.
>
> There are a few questions to answer.
>
> What if they had asked for verse 24?
>
> What content do we show?
>
> Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as his primary
> Bible, and is interested in seeing the parallel verses to the NASB in the
> other texts. He is not interested in seeing apocryphal insertions. He
> primarily cares about the NASB and only glances at the content from the
> other modules when interested in seeing the parallel.
>
> This is how the web frontend, and all current SWORD based frontends
> *should* currently work with no code changes, with the v11n translation
> facilities currently designed in the engine. It uses the first module as
> the "master" and iterated its key and pulls the equivalent verses from the
> other modules. The current facility in the engine allows for:
>
> lxx->setKey(nasb->getKey())
>
> resulting in the LXX being positioned to the equivalent verse (e.g., v91
> from nasb v24)-- if translation tables (for example from Костя) were in
> place.
>
> But this use case, while likely the most dominant, is not the most
> scholarly. A scholar would likely wish to see a *superset* of all verses
> from all displayed parallel Bibles, inserting gaps where they should go in
> the other text which do not contain the verses.
>
> Not too hard to imagine, but what is the programmer-friendly API interface
> for this? Harder to imagine. You can't simply choose one of the modules to
> iterate.
> Possibly:
>
> ListKey superset;
> superset << kjv->getKey() << nasb->getKey() << lxx->getKey() <<
> wlc->getKey();
>
> then one could iterate the superset listkey.
>
> This would leave the work of figuring out where the gaps should go up to
> ListKey, or something in the translation system in VerseKey which backs
> ListKey.
>
> It's a complex problem, but we haven't even talked about the issue of
> reordered content. Sometime Romans 16:25-27a (obviously excluding the
> subscriptio) is located after Romans 14:23. This is an example of
> reordering. It doesn't give problems from our "chapter window display"
> because the reordering is across different chapters and you could still
> pick your poison from the 2 choices above for display logic, but what about
> display windows which allow more than a single chapter, like BibleDesktop?
> Now the question arises. If you've chosen to build a superset, where do the
> gaps go? You could reasonably add them to either place (after Romans 14:23
> in the modules which don't include the doxology here or after Romans 16:24
> for modules which don't include the doxology here). How do you decide? How
> should the program decide?
>
> Lot's of questions and input we all need to give and a working proof of
> concept for at least a single frontend before we commit to something for
> everyone to use in the en

Re: [sword-devel] sword.js

[David Haslam]

Because our friend Ryan found this so "hard to find",
I have added a new top section to our file formats page, 
based on lightly editing the responses from Peter and DM.  See

http://crosswire.org/wiki/File_Formats#SWORD_modules

This should make things clearer to future visitors.

David



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