Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
On 10/03/2011, at 7:19 AM, Nic wrote: I've been considering how to speed up the loading of the locales, and I have already made several optimisations to SWORD for use on iOS devices (which is all in the mercurial repo on bitbucket). Hopefully I'll have time to do some more of these so I can (hopefully, eventually) use the full set of UTF8 locales in PocketSword at the same time. :) Great, i would like to look at your work. Also i found another performance issue. Its related to BibleTime. SWModule::setPosition for modules with one testament only and skipConsecutiveLinks(true) takes too long, because it is increments thought whole module. It is better to cache data about absent books/testament in module config. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Do you mind doing your own diff? https://bitbucket.org/niccarter/pocketsword/src/8b59fc9eed79/externals/sword/ Just clone the repo and diff the externals/sword folder and you should see changes related to startup times. Ignore the changes in the filters, as they only affect display not speed. That BibleTime tweak sounds specific to BibleTime - I know I made a handful of those changes when pulling the Obj-C SWORD wrappers across to use with PocketSword (which I forgot to submit upstream cause they made no diffence, speed-wise, on a desktop it was only on a handheld that you noticed the improvements - but, still, I really need to sit down and figure out my changes to submit to Manfred!)... Let me know if you have any questions about the PS tweaks :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) On 10/03/2011, at 19:42, Konstantin Maslyuk kale...@mail.ru wrote: On 10/03/2011, at 7:19 AM, Nic wrote: I've been considering how to speed up the loading of the locales, and I have already made several optimisations to SWORD for use on iOS devices (which is all in the mercurial repo on bitbucket). Hopefully I'll have time to do some more of these so I can (hopefully, eventually) use the full set of UTF8 locales in PocketSword at the same time. :) Great, i would like to look at your work. Also i found another performance issue. Its related to BibleTime. SWModule::setPosition for modules with one testament only and skipConsecutiveLinks(true) takes too long, because it is increments thought whole module. It is better to cache data about absent books/testament in module config. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Just wanted to add to this (yes, I know this is over a week old - I'm about that far behind with email atm): PocketSword does a check on launch for what locale the device is set to. It will then find that SWORD locale and will copy that (and only that) locale to the correct locales.d folder so as to keep app launch time low. I find that PocketSword also takes a fair bit longer to start with all the available locales in the locales.d folder. We have to do a new check at each subsequent app launch, as the user can change their device locale between launches (switching the device locale will automatically force-quit all open apps, I have found, which is handy for me)... :) I've been considering how to speed up the loading of the locales, and I have already made several optimisations to SWORD for use on iOS devices (which is all in the mercurial repo on bitbucket). Hopefully I'll have time to do some more of these so I can (hopefully, eventually) use the full set of UTF8 locales in PocketSword at the same time. :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 01/03/2011, at 8:44 PM, Konstantin Maslyuk wrote: Since SlideBible has problems with locales too, it takes too long to load all locales, normally application starts in 4 secs, with all locales - 60 secs. I think it is able to change locale selection mechanism to load new locales on demand. Also if frontend will decide when to update locales, like InstallMgr::updateLocales(), it would be ok, but updated locales will be available after restart. Otherwise system localemgr should be replaced at runtime and i do not know what it would involve. I would make it, if it would help anyone. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Thanks for all the responses received so far. It would seem that I have identified a real need, one that could be translated [pun] into a set of specified user requirements for the install managers and the various front-ends, as well as how we host front-end localizations for each application. May God bless each of you in your thinking and wisdom as you go about starting to tackle these things. How this works out under the constraints from Apple for iOS is something I can safely leave to Nic [and his co-workers??]. Maybe it requires some outside the box lateral thinking to overcome those obstacles. Davod -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Installing-new-updated-locales-like-we-do-for-modules-tp3329105p3331272.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Von: Jonathan Morgan jonmmor...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Peter von Kaehne ref...@gmx.net wrote: It is a reasonably common thing that we add a locale to sword, but the releases are not that frequent. If we get a new Bible text which includes cross references, obtaining/creating a sword locale is usually a must to get the cross references to work. I'm not sure that I understand this. Do you mean that we need the locales to *create* the module (e.g. detect localised cross references in the original source), or that we need the locales to *display *the module (I would have thought any OSIS modules would use OSIS refs rather than localised references, and so would work OK), or that users of that text would want to type in references in that locale (or something else?) Sorry, yes I was a bit wooly in my last post. 1) The correct locale is required to create a module with references 2) For normal use the locale is not needed per se - but 3) For searching for references in the user's locale the correct locale might be required. -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
From an Android perspective this would be tricky because the Android framework specifies that locale specific directories are integrated in a specific structure within each Android application and Android App Market also analyses the application structure to highlight which languages an app has been localised for. Applying and distributing localisations has not been an issue so far for And Bible partly because there are releases every month or two but also, possibly, because a pre-release notification seems to prompt translators to update or contribute translations. Regards Martin On 2 March 2011 10:20, Peter von Kaehne ref...@gmx.net wrote: Von: Jonathan Morgan jonmmor...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Peter von Kaehne ref...@gmx.net wrote: It is a reasonably common thing that we add a locale to sword, but the releases are not that frequent. If we get a new Bible text which includes cross references, obtaining/creating a sword locale is usually a must to get the cross references to work. I'm not sure that I understand this. Do you mean that we need the locales to *create* the module (e.g. detect localised cross references in the original source), or that we need the locales to *display *the module (I would have thought any OSIS modules would use OSIS refs rather than localised references, and so would work OK), or that users of that text would want to type in references in that locale (or something else?) Sorry, yes I was a bit wooly in my last post. 1) The correct locale is required to create a module with references 2) For normal use the locale is not needed per se - but 3) For searching for references in the user's locale the correct locale might be required. -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
The iPhone can support the schwa characters Əə, so there should be no barrier to Apple for making an iOS localization for Azerbaijani. Just time and coffee, plus suitable contacts who speak the language and can understand the context for each item. Meanwhile, with the help of my contacts, Nic and I could have the PocketSword localization prepared in the wings, so to speak. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Installing-new-updated-locales-like-we-do-for-modules-tp3329105p3330569.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Since SlideBible has problems with locales too, it takes too long to load all locales, normally application starts in 4 secs, with all locales - 60 secs. I think it is able to change locale selection mechanism to load new locales on demand. Also if frontend will decide when to update locales, like InstallMgr::updateLocales(), it would be ok, but updated locales will be available after restart. Otherwise system localemgr should be replaced at runtime and i do not know what it would involve. I would make it, if it would help anyone. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 14:30 +1100, Nic Carter wrote: On 01/03/2011, at 12:23 PM, David Haslam wrote: For anyone with a slow connection, this would save time considerably, since the files containing the localization strings must be a lot smaller than the download for the whole front-end. yup, for the names of the books of the Bible, this would simply be text files [..] I think this would be useful for two reasons It is a reasonably common thing that we add a locale to sword, but the releases are not that frequent. If we get a new Bible text which includes cross references, obtaining/creating a sword locale is usually a must to get the cross references to work. So, it would be nice to be able to load them like modules. On the other side, my understanding is that every time a SWMgr is created the whole bunch of existing locales is read, which can be a bit of a slow process. At least when I called vs2osisref multiple (thousands of) times in a shell script to fix references in an OSIS text I could speed up my shell script considerably by removing installed locales down to the one I needed - from running 2 hrs down to 10 mins. Using the bindings and creating only one SWMgr made the whole problem for my purposes academic, but I gather that proper frontends still have a multiplicity of instances created and running at any given time? So, if locales were given module status, for downlod via module manager, we could a) add them without waiting for a new release b) potentially (dependent on if my understanding is right) significantly speed up start up of frontend by only installing the locales actually wanted/needed by the user. Peter ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 14:30 +1100, Nic Carter wrote: On 01/03/2011, at 12:23 PM, David Haslam wrote: For anyone with a slow connection, this would save time considerably, since the files containing the localization strings must be a lot smaller than the download for the whole front-end. yup, for the names of the books of the Bible, this would simply be text files [..] I think this would be useful for two reasons It is a reasonably common thing that we add a locale to sword, but the releases are not that frequent. If we get a new Bible text which includes cross references, obtaining/creating a sword locale is usually a must to get the cross references to work. So, it would be nice to be able to load them like modules. On the other side, my understanding is that every time a SWMgr is created the whole bunch of existing locales is read, which can be a bit of a slow process. At least when I called vs2osisref multiple (thousands of) times in a shell script to fix references in an OSIS text I could speed up my shell script considerably by removing installed locales down to the one I needed - from running 2 hrs down to 10 mins. Using the bindings and creating only one SWMgr made the whole problem for my purposes academic, but I gather that proper frontends still have a multiplicity of instances created and running at any given time? So, if locales were given module status, for downlod via module manager, we could a) add them without waiting for a new release b) potentially (dependent on if my understanding is right) significantly speed up start up of frontend by only installing the locales actually wanted/needed by the user. Peter ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Hi Peter, On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Peter von Kaehne ref...@gmx.net wrote: On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 14:30 +1100, Nic Carter wrote: On 01/03/2011, at 12:23 PM, David Haslam wrote: For anyone with a slow connection, this would save time considerably, since the files containing the localization strings must be a lot smaller than the download for the whole front-end. yup, for the names of the books of the Bible, this would simply be text files [..] I think this would be useful for two reasons It is a reasonably common thing that we add a locale to sword, but the releases are not that frequent. If we get a new Bible text which includes cross references, obtaining/creating a sword locale is usually a must to get the cross references to work. I'm not sure that I understand this. Do you mean that we need the locales to *create* the module (e.g. detect localised cross references in the original source), or that we need the locales to *display *the module (I would have thought any OSIS modules would use OSIS refs rather than localised references, and so would work OK), or that users of that text would want to type in references in that locale (or something else?) Jon ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
[sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Suggestion: For mobile front-ends like PocketSword or and-bible, it seems a pity that the whole application needs to be downloaded after a new or updated locale has been provided. For improved speed, might it not make better sense that when this is the only software change, we could treat the installation of new/updated locales like we do for modules? For anyone with a slow connection, this would save time considerably, since the files containing the localization strings must be a lot smaller than the download for the whole front-end. btw. This thought came to me when I observed that PocketSword does not yet have a localization for Azerbaijani. I have contacts who could help with the UI translations for this language. It was a delight to be with one during the past few days. If my suggestion is deemed attractive for mobile front-ends, then maybe it could be adopted more universally for all front-ends. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Installing-new-updated-locales-like-we-do-for-modules-tp3329105p3329105.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Installing new/updated locales like we do for modules?
Hi David, Interesting thoughts: On 01/03/2011, at 12:23 PM, David Haslam wrote: Suggestion: For mobile front-ends like PocketSword or and-bible, it seems a pity that the whole application needs to be downloaded after a new or updated locale has been provided. For improved speed, might it not make better sense that when this is the only software change, we could treat the installation of new/updated locales like we do for modules? I agree, but there are 2 locales that PocketSword (and I assume other front-ends) use: The books of the Bible (the translations of which are part of the SWORD svn) and the rest of the front-end (which is specific to each and every front-end, given they are all different). Perhaps there could be a part of the SWORD API that can be used to retrieve the latest set of locales from the SWORD svn? I can see no issues with this, and that would actually be pretty cool. For anyone with a slow connection, this would save time considerably, since the files containing the localization strings must be a lot smaller than the download for the whole front-end. yup, for the names of the books of the Bible, this would simply be text files (and for many front-ends, this would simply be a set of text files). :) btw. This thought came to me when I observed that PocketSword does not yet have a localization for Azerbaijani. I have contacts who could help with the UI translations for this language. It was a delight to be with one during the past few days. Wow, you meet loads of fun people from all over the place :) While I love your idea (as my comments above have said), there is a technical hurdle with PocketSword and the iOS App Store in that I cannot update the OS-specific localisations without updating the entire PocketSword binary. Hence I will only update the localisations when I submit a PS update. Also, Azerbaijani isn't one of the currently supported iOS languages, so in order to create a localised UI for PS in Azerbaijani, we would need to create a new app that only is in Azerbaijani. :) If my suggestion is deemed attractive for mobile front-ends, then maybe it could be adopted more universally for all front-ends. I can't comment on this bit, but it all sounds fun and interesting. :) Thanks! ybic nic... :) Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
