Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-05-21, 19:49 GMT, Greg Hellings wrote: > Does Xiphos support av11n? I didn't think it does. The same happens with diatheke: ~$ diatheke -b CzeCEP -k Isa 40:1 Isaiah 40:1: Zpívejte Hospodinu píseň novou! Ať zní jeho chvála ze všech končin země. Ti, kteří se vydávají na moře, i to, čeho je moře plno, ostrovy a ti, kdo na nich bydlí, (CzeCEP) : ~$ diatheke --version Diatheke command-line SWORD frontend Version 4.7 ... ~$ Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
Oh, right, I was brain farting back to 3.x. Oops! --Greg On May 21, 2016 2:52 PM, "Karl Kleinpaste" wrote: > On 05/21/2016 03:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > > Does Xiphos support av11n? I didn't think it does. > > Certainly. It was the major effort for the beginning of v4. > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 05/21/2016 03:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > > Does Xiphos support av11n? I didn't think it does. > Certainly. It was the major effort for the beginning of v4. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
Does Xiphos support av11n? I didn't think it does. --Greg On May 21, 2016 2:47 PM, "Matěj Cepl" wrote: > On 2016-03-10, 14:55 GMT, Matěj Cepl wrote: > >> I’m trying to work out something for modules that are old, > >> having no current maintainer, no prior maintainer available > >> for consultation, no available source, no clear source that > >> was used, ... and have a very minor change needed. > > > > Well, could you suggest some strategy how to fix the XML (it is > > available https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml) > > so the versification is correct? Just to go chapter by chapter > > and make sure the number of verses in a chapter corresponds to > > the printed book? > > Hi, guys, > > let me exhume this thread. I have checked that XML source, > remove all empty verses (apparently added to make file look like > using KJV v11N? Was it how it was done before av11n?), and now > I have https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml > which validates against > http://crosswire.org/osis/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and osis2mod Rev: > 3314 processes it without a complaint under the German v11n > (well, with a one complaint in Isa 63.20, which is known to be > different in the Czech Bibles from the German ones). However, > the created module > (https://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/tmp/CzeCEP.zip) completely > confuses Xiphos. E.g., instead of Isaiah 40:1 (which should read > »"Potěšte, potěšte můj lid," praví váš Bůh.« in Czech), I get > unnumbered 42:9, »Hle, už nastalo, co bylo na počátku, teď > oznamuji nové věci. Dříve než vyraší, vám je ohlašuji.", see > screenshot on > https://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/tmp/xiphos-isaiah.png). And other > verses are off as well. Any idea, what's wrong? > > Best, > > Matěj > > -- > https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz > GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 > > Create like it's 1790. > -- Lawrence Lessig > > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 14:55 GMT, Matěj Cepl wrote: >> I’m trying to work out something for modules that are old, >> having no current maintainer, no prior maintainer available >> for consultation, no available source, no clear source that >> was used, ... and have a very minor change needed. > > Well, could you suggest some strategy how to fix the XML (it is > available https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml) > so the versification is correct? Just to go chapter by chapter > and make sure the number of verses in a chapter corresponds to > the printed book? Hi, guys, let me exhume this thread. I have checked that XML source, remove all empty verses (apparently added to make file look like using KJV v11N? Was it how it was done before av11n?), and now I have https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml which validates against http://crosswire.org/osis/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and osis2mod Rev: 3314 processes it without a complaint under the German v11n (well, with a one complaint in Isa 63.20, which is known to be different in the Czech Bibles from the German ones). However, the created module (https://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/tmp/CzeCEP.zip) completely confuses Xiphos. E.g., instead of Isaiah 40:1 (which should read »"Potěšte, potěšte můj lid," praví váš Bůh.« in Czech), I get unnumbered 42:9, »Hle, už nastalo, co bylo na počátku, teď oznamuji nové věci. Dříve než vyraší, vám je ohlašuji.", see screenshot on https://mcepl.fedorapeople.org/tmp/xiphos-isaiah.png). And other verses are off as well. Any idea, what's wrong? Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 Create like it's 1790. -- Lawrence Lessig ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 14:12 GMT, DM Smith wrote: > If a module has linked verses (e.g. commentaries may have one > entry that spans several verses) or verses outside of the > versification, then there is no lossless return to module > input. I don’t think this is the case (can you take a look for yourself?). CzeCEP seems to be really simple text-only module. No footnotes, no cross-references, not nothing. > I’m trying to work out something for modules that are old, > having no current maintainer, no prior maintainer available > for consultation, no available source, no clear source that > was used, ... and have a very minor change needed. Well, could you suggest some strategy how to fix the XML (it is available https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml) so the versification is correct? Just to go chapter by chapter and make sure the number of verses in a chapter corresponds to the printed book? I would actually like to have a good sources for this module (and associated pipeline, Makefile, issue tracker, etc.), because I see a need for further development. This is the most common Bible in the Czech language (kind of middle-of-the-road, something like NIV in English) and it is widely used by both Protestants and Catholics (that "E" stands for "Ecumenical", it is a joint project by all Christians in the Czech lands). And the Catholics pester me constantly they would like to have deuterocanonical/apocryphal books as well. So, I hope to persuade the Czech Bible Society to make the publishing rights absolutely clear (currently we are in negotiating, they don't know what to do themselves yet, because it was developed so long time ago; on the other hand I have a strong argument, and they accepted it, that presence of the module in Sword won’t hurt their sales), and develop this module into something which would be well working and maintained. Blessings, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets -- Will Rogers ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:28 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: > > On 2016-03-10, 10:45 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> By finding the source and starting from scratch > > There is no source, unless you have it. The module is from > 2003-03-21. > > And we are talking here about s/y/i/ in one word. > > What is the best decompiler of mod files to see what all > functionality outside of plain text is used? I believe there is > none, but I would like to be certain. If a module has linked verses (e.g. commentaries may have one entry that spans several verses) or verses outside of the versification, then there is no lossless return to module input. mod2imp drops the linking. mod2imp does not unwind the appended verses to a bad versification. osis2mod transforms the input to something that SWORD lib filters and renderers can handle. No tool unwinds these changes. Still mod2imp may be the best course to create a good input going forward. But…. stay tuned. I’m trying to work out something for modules that are old, having no current maintainer, no prior maintainer available for consultation, no available source, no clear source that was used, ... and have a very minor change needed. In Him, DM ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
Karl, I was short, but this is no solution. Sorry. Matej is very clear that the versification is off. So we export and reimport a module and create more grief. We need a new source and we then need to import that. In the correct versification. I fully agree with you that the loss of source text for so many of our modules is a bad problem - particularly when fixing things would be easy enough. We do have for the last year now for all modules newly uploaded the source texts on the server. Fixes can be done and rolled out very fast. peter Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. März 2016 um 13:57 Uhr Von: "Karl Kleinpaste" An: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n) On 03/10/2016 02:58 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using mod2imp? I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed to, or contact the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is none and nobody. It is absurdity of the first order that two facts are combined, first, that there isn't locally-maintained access to a module source, and second, that the loss of the remote source means that the module can never be repaired or updated. Essentially, "you don't have it now, and you can't have it again. Ever." Matěj, if you wish, and can make your fix by whatever means, let me get a copy and it will go into Xiphos repo within a day. This kind of situation is exactly why I started my own repo in 2007 (now known as the Xiphos repo)... because there are far too many situations where forward progress becomes impossible, from simple catatonia of module management lasting literally years, to policy catch-22, to desire not to be hamstrung by procedure. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > > On 03/10/2016 02:58 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: >> On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >>> A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. >> Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using >> mod2imp? I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed >> to, or contact the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is >> none and nobody. > It is absurdity of the first order that two facts are combined, first, that > there isn't locally-maintained access to a module source, and second, that > the loss of the remote source means that the module can never be repaired or > updated. Essentially, "you don't have it now, and you can't have it again. > Ever." > > Matěj, if you wish, and can make your fix by whatever means, let me get a > copy and it will go into Xiphos repo within a day. > > This kind of situation is exactly why I started my own repo in 2007 (now > known as the Xiphos repo)... because there are far too many situations where > forward progress becomes impossible, from simple catatonia of module > management lasting literally years, to policy catch-22, to desire not to be > hamstrung by procedure. Let’s not go there yet. I’m trying to hammer out policy changes that hamper module updates. Stay tuned. It shouldn’t be much longer. One thing that has not changed is our mission is Kingdom focused. We need to keep that in mind as we go forward. In Him, DM Smith ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 10:45 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > By finding the source and starting from scratch There is no source, unless you have it. The module is from 2003-03-21. And we are talking here about s/y/i/ in one word. What is the best decompiler of mod files to see what all functionality outside of plain text is used? I believe there is none, but I would like to be certain. Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Do not long for the night, when people vanish in their place. Be careful, do not turn to evil; for you have preferred this to affliction. -- Job 36:20f (NASB) ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 03/10/2016 02:58 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. > Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using mod2imp? > I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed to, or contact > the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is none and nobody. It is absurdity of the first order that two facts are combined, first, that there isn't locally-maintained access to a module source, and second, that the loss of the remote source means that the module can never be repaired or updated. Essentially, "you don't have it now, and you can't have it again. Ever." Matěj, if you wish, and can make your fix by whatever means, let me get a copy and it will go into Xiphos repo within a day. This kind of situation is exactly why I started my own repo in 2007 (now known as the Xiphos repo)... because there are far too many situations where forward progress becomes impossible, from simple catatonia of module management lasting literally years, to policy catch-22, to desire not to be hamstrung by procedure. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
By finding the source and starting from scratch On 10 March 2016 10:29:03 GMT+00:00, "Matěj Cepl" wrote: >On 2016-03-10, 09:31 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> Specifically versification is lossy as you now notice. > >So, how is that bug supposed to be fixed? > >Matěj > >-- >https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz >GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC > >One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an >imaginary part. >-- Andrew König > > >___ >sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 09:31 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Specifically versification is lossy as you now notice. So, how is that bug supposed to be fixed? Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an imaginary part. -- Andrew König ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 08:54 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > We would never export and reimport. Yes > We only ever work one way, because import is lossy. Lovely, so where it the maintainer I should send my (one word) correction to? I know you hate the open source development of modules, but this is really getting silly. I am working on maintenance of Czech modules for almost half a year, I have asked multiple times here for the maintainer of CzeCEP module and was told there is nobody. I have been working on the fixing of copyright situation with the Czech Bible Society (because the copyright status is unknown) for couple of monts as well. And suddenly you claim there are those official sources (which nobody ever seen), and perhaps even a maintainer, and these must be used? Could you please advice how to fix one word embarassing grammar error in CzeCEP? Best, Matěj P.S.: And do I need to add for the fifth time that CzeNKB and CzeKMS should be removed, http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MOD-312 and http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MOD-313? -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC http://xkcd.com/743/ … enough said. ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
Specifically versification is lossy as you now notice. Sent from my phone. Apologies for brevity and typos.On 10 Mar 2016 8:54 am, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > > We would never export and reimport. Yes > We only ever work one way, because import is lossy. > > Sent from my phone. Apologies for brevity and typos.On 10 Mar 2016 7:58 am, > Matěj Cepl wrote: > > > > On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > > > A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. > > > > Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using > > mod2imp? I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed > > to, or contact the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is > > none and nobody. > > > > Matěj > > > > -- > > https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz > > GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC > > > > Somewhere at the edge of the Bell curve was the girl for me. > > -- Based on http://xkcd.com/314/ > > > > ___ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
We would never export and reimport. Yes We only ever work one way, because import is lossy. Sent from my phone. Apologies for brevity and typos.On 10 Mar 2016 7:58 am, Matěj Cepl wrote: > > On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > > A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. > > Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using > mod2imp? I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed > to, or contact the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is > none and nobody. > > Matěj > > -- > https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz > GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC > > Somewhere at the edge of the Bell curve was the girl for me. > -- Based on http://xkcd.com/314/ > > ___ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
On 2016-03-10, 04:52 GMT, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. Sorry, which way? What’s wrong? Do you mean, because of using mod2imp? I will gladly use any better sources I will be pointed to, or contact the module maintainer, but I am afraid there is none and nobody. Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Somewhere at the edge of the Bell curve was the girl for me. -- Based on http://xkcd.com/314/ ___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
Re: [sword-devel] Help with CzeCEP update (av11n)
A module created this way would not be accepted for new import. Peter On 10 March 2016 01:43:45 GMT+00:00, "Matěj Cepl" wrote: >Hi, > >I am trying to recreate a module generating pipeline for CzeCEP >(source is from mod2imp on the existing source) so that I could >fix an embarassing bug >http://crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MOD-307, but I have troubles >with v11n (again). Original CzeCEP was I suppose in KJV v11n, >but generally Czech Bibles are best served (as tested with >CzeCSP) with the German v11n. However, when trying to generate >Sword module from >https://gitlab.com/mcepl/czecep/raw/master/CzeCEP.xml (generated >from CzeCEP.imp in the same directory by ./imp2osis.pl) I get >hundreds of v11n erorrs with either v11n of these. > >Any help on what's wrong with that file? av11n script doesnt't >find any suitable versification. > >Blessings, > >Matěj > >-- >https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz >GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC > >Our lives are spectacles of powerlessness. >-- Richard Rohr > > >___ >sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
