Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
Content. That's what it all comes down to. The content distributors (stations, etc) do not perceive enough benefit in providing better content for secondary streams. They're just bright enough to realize they might someday so they stick junk on it as a placeholder. The real problem is that nobody has come up with an accurate and socially acceptable method of measuring content consumption, ever. Nielson? Don't make me laugh. I did say accurate, not voodoo sampling. Advertising has reached such a feeding frenzy that content sponsors are starting to demand the specific demographics of the audience consuming that particular programming. Since there's still no measuring approach accurate enough to placate advertisers, content distributors continue to be unaware who, if anyone, is partaking of the secondary content. Doesn't this situation all seem so very familiar? Think of SWBC 30 years ago. Question is, how to avoid repeating that exodus? Distributors won't keep those secondary streams lit forever without some sort of return. -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Rob de Santos Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 00:44 To: 'Shortwave programming discussion' Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news Ted, it's not that there is anything wrong with services like Me-TV or Antenna TV per se. I occasionally get some amusement out of watching old shows myself. It's simply that after nearly 43 months, the station has yet to come up with **anything** better to put on the sub-channel. Moreover, there probably isn't a major market where those services and similar ones don't dot the sub-channels landscape. Not because they get ratings, they don't (they don't generate enough viewers that Nielsen will even bother rating them). They are there because station programmers can't figure out what to put there that significant numbers will watch. For that matter, my cable provider (TWC) stuffs the cable feeds up in the 990's above the music channels where nobody will find them unless they accidentally go down from the HD channels. With a few exceptions, such as MHz in Washington, DC the HD sub-channels are a wasteland. Ask yourself, if they gave any of us on this thread a channel to program, what could we come up with to put there? I'm betting 9 out of 10, it's not Me-TV. -- -Rob de Santos -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Ted S. Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 9:50 PM To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:16:41 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > Two examples of this come to mind. A few months before the digital > changeover I had a meeting with an executive at one of the Columbus TV > stations. Ostensibly, I was there to talk sports programming and > promotion. I asked him: "so what is W***-TV going to do with their > sub-channels?" Answer: "We have no idea so we'll probably just > temporarily fill it with old shows and news feeds for now." Three and > a half years on, "temporarily" is now "permanently" and this is a > locally owned and well-run station. One of my other interests is game shows, and I'm a member of an internet board dedicated to game shows, both new and old. There's a substantial percentage of the membership there that likes the nostalgia TV channels like Me-TV and Antenna TV. I also like having a digital sub-channel that cycles through various weather/radar maps, which I find particularly useful any time there's a thunderstorm and I don't really want to fire up the computer, or a heavy enough snow storm that I worry about the satellite internet getting blocked. -- Ted Schuerzinger fedya at hughes dot net ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
What a fabulous idea, Rich. I'm glad you thought of it! :-) Looking forward to seeing many of you in two months. -- -Rob de Santos -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Richard Cuff Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 10:26 PM To: Scott Royall; Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news We should have this conversation in the Hospitality Room at the Fest. We'll have the beverages...and we can even have some tea for Scott! RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Scott Royall wrote: > For me, just tea, please. :) ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
Ted, it's not that there is anything wrong with services like Me-TV or Antenna TV per se. I occasionally get some amusement out of watching old shows myself. It's simply that after nearly 43 months, the station has yet to come up with **anything** better to put on the sub-channel. Moreover, there probably isn't a major market where those services and similar ones don't dot the sub-channels landscape. Not because they get ratings, they don't (they don't generate enough viewers that Nielsen will even bother rating them). They are there because station programmers can't figure out what to put there that significant numbers will watch. For that matter, my cable provider (TWC) stuffs the cable feeds up in the 990's above the music channels where nobody will find them unless they accidentally go down from the HD channels. With a few exceptions, such as MHz in Washington, DC the HD sub-channels are a wasteland. Ask yourself, if they gave any of us on this thread a channel to program, what could we come up with to put there? I'm betting 9 out of 10, it's not Me-TV. -- -Rob de Santos -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Ted S. Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 9:50 PM To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:16:41 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > Two examples of this come to mind. A few months before the digital > changeover I had a meeting with an executive at one of the Columbus TV > stations. Ostensibly, I was there to talk sports programming and > promotion. I asked him: "so what is W***-TV going to do with their > sub-channels?" Answer: "We have no idea so we'll probably just > temporarily fill it with old shows and news feeds for now." Three and > a half years on, "temporarily" is now "permanently" and this is a > locally owned and well-run station. One of my other interests is game shows, and I'm a member of an internet board dedicated to game shows, both new and old. There's a substantial percentage of the membership there that likes the nostalgia TV channels like Me-TV and Antenna TV. I also like having a digital sub-channel that cycles through various weather/radar maps, which I find particularly useful any time there's a thunderstorm and I don't really want to fire up the computer, or a heavy enough snow storm that I worry about the satellite internet getting blocked. -- Ted Schuerzinger fedya at hughes dot net ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
We should have this conversation in the Hospitality Room at the Fest. We'll have the beverages...and we can even have some tea for Scott! RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Scott Royall wrote: > For me, just tea, please. :) > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
For me, just tea, please. :) -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of John A. Figliozzi Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 21:17 To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news I see you, me, Scott and a few others could have a lot of fun with this topic over a few adult beverages. :) Sent from my iPad > On Jan 9, 2014, at 10:00 PM, "Ted S." wrote: > >> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:28:55 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: >> >> I think you've misunderstood, Ted. The criticism of government >> policy regards allowing (in fact fostering) concentration of control >> over a public resource--not a public vs. private broadcasting >> argument. > > One of the points I was trying to make is that having that 800-pound > gorilla with the government imprimatur is also a form of concentration > of control. > > Not that I particularly care for the state of broadcasting here in the > US. I wouldn't necessarily mind some good spoken-word broadcasting > that wasn't of the call-in variety; after all, I listen to the various > international broadcasters. But one of the impressions I get from > discussions like this -- not just here, but in the game show forum I > mentioned in responding to Rob, as well as the TCM boards -- is that a > lot of the complaining comes down to, "How horrible it is that there's > not more of the format of programming *I* like!" (You should see on > the TCM boards whenever they run more recent movies.) > > I don't have any good answers, though. > >> P.S.: I think it's WEPN that's transitioned to FM from AM in NYC. >> WFAN is on both 660AM which should be reaching into the Catskills >> even in daytime, and FM. > > I must not have made my previous post clear; yeah, I fully know that > it's WEPN that went Spanish-language sports. Just this week WFAN's > station IDs went to mentioning the FM frequency first, which makes me > wonder when they're going to leave AM > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
I see you, me, Scott and a few others could have a lot of fun with this topic over a few adult beverages. :) Sent from my iPad > On Jan 9, 2014, at 10:00 PM, "Ted S." wrote: > >> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:28:55 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: >> >> I think you've misunderstood, Ted. The criticism of government >> policy regards allowing (in fact fostering) concentration of control >> over a public resource--not a public vs. private broadcasting >> argument. > > One of the points I was trying to make is that having that 800-pound > gorilla with the government imprimatur is also a form of concentration > of control. > > Not that I particularly care for the state of broadcasting here in the > US. I wouldn't necessarily mind some good spoken-word broadcasting that > wasn't of the call-in variety; after all, I listen to the various > international broadcasters. But one of the impressions I get from > discussions like this -- not just here, but in the game show forum I > mentioned in responding to Rob, as well as the TCM boards -- is that a > lot of the complaining comes down to, "How horrible it is that there's > not more of the format of programming *I* like!" (You should see on the > TCM boards whenever they run more recent movies.) > > I don't have any good answers, though. > >> P.S.: I think it's WEPN that's transitioned to FM from AM in NYC. >> WFAN is on both 660AM which should be reaching into the Catskills >> even in daytime, and FM. > > I must not have made my previous post clear; yeah, I fully know that > it's WEPN that went Spanish-language sports. Just this week WFAN's > station IDs went to mentioning the FM frequency first, which makes me > wonder when they're going to leave AM > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:16:41 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > Two examples of this come to mind. A few months before the digital > changeover I had a meeting with an executive at one of the Columbus > TV stations. Ostensibly, I was there to talk sports programming and > promotion. I asked him: "so what is W***-TV going to do with their > sub-channels?" Answer: "We have no idea so we'll probably just > temporarily fill it with old shows and news feeds for now." Three and > a half years on, "temporarily" is now "permanently" and this is a > locally owned and well-run station. One of my other interests is game shows, and I'm a member of an internet board dedicated to game shows, both new and old. There's a substantial percentage of the membership there that likes the nostalgia TV channels like Me-TV and Antenna TV. I also like having a digital subchannel that cycles through various weather/radar maps, which I find particularly useful any time there's a thunderstorm and I don't really want to fire up the computer, or a heavy enough snow storm that I worry about the satellite internet getting blocked. -- Ted Schuerzinger fedya at hughes dot net ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:28:55 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > I think you've misunderstood, Ted. The criticism of government > policy regards allowing (in fact fostering) concentration of control > over a public resource--not a public vs. private broadcasting > argument. One of the points I was trying to make is that having that 800-pound gorilla with the government imprimatur is also a form of concentration of control. Not that I particularly care for the state of broadcasting here in the US. I wouldn't necessarily mind some good spoken-word broadcasting that wasn't of the call-in variety; after all, I listen to the various international broadcasters. But one of the impressions I get from discussions like this -- not just here, but in the game show forum I mentioned in responding to Rob, as well as the TCM boards -- is that a lot of the complaining comes down to, "How horrible it is that there's not more of the format of programming *I* like!" (You should see on the TCM boards whenever they run more recent movies.) I don't have any good answers, though. > P.S.: I think it's WEPN that's transitioned to FM from AM in NYC. > WFAN is on both 660AM which should be reaching into the Catskills > even in daytime, and FM. I must not have made my previous post clear; yeah, I fully know that it's WEPN that went Spanish-language sports. Just this week WFAN's station IDs went to mentioning the FM frequency first, which makes me wonder when they're going to leave AM ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
But by what definition is one company owning 700, 800, 900 stations including up to a dozen or more in the same city a "free market"? Sent from my iPad > On Jan 9, 2014, at 9:36 PM, "Scott Royall" wrote: > > Ted, I noticed that "gotcha" also. Really, who should decide such things. > The free market model does suck, until you look closely at the alternatives. > > -Original Message- > From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of > Ted S. > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 19:43 > To: Shortwave programming discussion > Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news > >> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:12:22 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: >> >> You'd >> think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB > > This comes up against Scott Royall's comment, as you're implying that sports > talk is somehow not meaningful. (Ever since the New York ESPN Radio > affiliate went FM only, I haven't been able to pick one up here in the > Catskills. And I wouldn't mind having a competitor to WFAN.) > >> and should be managed to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC >> and the rest of our government > > Are networks not in the public good? Or are they only in the public good > when they've got the government imprimatur like the CBC in Canada or the BBC > in the UK? > > -- > Ted Schuerzinger > fedya at hughes dot net > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > > > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
Ted, I noticed that "gotcha" also. Really, who should decide such things. The free market model does suck, until you look closely at the alternatives. -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Ted S. Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 19:43 To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:12:22 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > You'd > think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB This comes up against Scott Royall's comment, as you're implying that sports talk is somehow not meaningful. (Ever since the New York ESPN Radio affiliate went FM only, I haven't been able to pick one up here in the Catskills. And I wouldn't mind having a competitor to WFAN.) > and should be managed to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC > and the rest of our government Are networks not in the public good? Or are they only in the public good when they've got the government imprimatur like the CBC in Canada or the BBC in the UK? -- Ted Schuerzinger fedya at hughes dot net ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
I think you've misunderstood, Ted. The criticism of government policy regards allowing (in fact fostering) concentration of control over a public resource--not a public vs. private broadcasting argument. So, as to the sports talk situation, in Buffalo at least WGR is already widely heard on its 5kW regional AM frequency. So why simulcast it on an HD2 frequency that has a lesser reach? Absent such concentration of control that HD2 frequency would be more likely to offer something other than a rather useless repeat of something already available. John Figliozzi P.S.: I think it's WEPN that's transitioned to FM from AM in NYC. WFAN is on both 660AM which should be reaching into the Catskills even in daytime, and FM. Sent from my iPad > On Jan 9, 2014, at 8:43 PM, "Ted S." wrote: > >> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:12:22 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: >> >> You'd >> think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB > > This comes up against Scott Royall's comment, as you're implying that > sports talk is somehow not meaningful. (Ever since the New York ESPN > Radio affiliate went FM only, I haven't been able to pick one up here in > the Catskills. And I wouldn't mind having a competitor to WFAN.) > >> and should be managed to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC >> and the rest of our government > > Are networks not in the public good? Or are they only in the public > good when they've got the government imprimatur like the CBC in Canada > or the BBC in the UK? > > -- > Ted Schuerzinger > fedya at hughes dot net > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
For many years, Ibiquity imposed rules on licensees that restricted them from duplicating formats in a given market but the rules were so broad it often restricted entire genres. The good news is they dropped that restriction several years ago. I don't believe the FCC has any rules on it aside from the fact you cannot duplicate your primary broadcast signal on anything other than HD1. This is to insure that the "rollover" to and from digital happens as the signal strength changes. That put aside, I think the problem with the radio HD channels is like the problem with the digital sub-channels for broadcast TV. The industry organizations and the vendors promoted the possibilities of many alternative programming formats and all of the new and exciting opportunities for listeners/viewers. The holes in the argument were many. Here is one: the stations really didn't have a plan on what to program. Tripling or quadrupling your "bandwidth" to send out programming sounds awesome but you need to know what you are going to do that is interesting to the audience. Another is: the stations also hadn't worked out how to pay for it. With the small number of viewers/listeners to those sub-channels, the rate book was out the window. Neither the TV nor the radio stations can charge for advertising on a sub-channel what they charge for their main channel. Largely they remain a financial loser. Two examples of this come to mind. A few months before the digital changeover I had a meeting with an executive at one of the Columbus TV stations. Ostensibly, I was there to talk sports programming and promotion. I asked him: "so what is W***-TV going to do with their sub-channels?" Answer: "We have no idea so we'll probably just temporarily fill it with old shows and news feeds for now." Three and a half years on, "temporarily" is now "permanently" and this is a locally owned and well-run station. The other involves radio and my recent time at a broadcast engineering meeting. (I was covering the meeting for an industry publication.) I was the bystander in a conversation between two station engineers (not programmers!) who were lamenting how their HD sub-channels were being filled with whatever the corporate office was force-feeding them even though there was no market interest. Apparently, the corporate people had decided that a couple of their in-house formats had to be used. Public radio and TV is about the only area where stations have consistently made sensible programming decisions for their digital feeds. However, even there, there is much duplication and few stations that radically alter the programming. Moral of the story: Original programming is hard (really new ideas are few) and often does not generate revenue right away. It's the antithesis of today's Wall Street philosophy. Ironically, when it works, it works spectacularly well. -- -Rob de Santos -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Anderson Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 4:23 PM To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news On Thu, 1/9/14, David Goren wrote: > Is there a prohibition for station > to lease their HD-2 and HD-3 in a manner similar to FM subcarrier > stations? Otherwise, that could be a model. I don't believe there is an FCC regulation that would deny this possibility, which means it is more flexible than second-channel audio. However, a station will have license expenses with iBiquity, the licensed owner of the technology. For sure you'd have issues of annual costs/fees for technology licensing, which I believe is 3 % of the incremental net annual revenue on digital content. Here in Iowa, our statewide public radio network, Iowa Public Radio, has three programming streams. They've started to use the HD-2 channel on some of the transmitters to send a second stream instead of investing in an entirely different frequency. I personally would only use digital AM/FM if I am GIVEN a receiver, as otherwise I wouldn't spend the money. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:12:22 -0500, in shortwave you wrote: > You'd > think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB This comes up against Scott Royall's comment, as you're implying that sports talk is somehow not meaningful. (Ever since the New York ESPN Radio affiliate went FM only, I haven't been able to pick one up here in the Catskills. And I wouldn't mind having a competitor to WFAN.) > and should be managed to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC > and the rest of our government Are networks not in the public good? Or are they only in the public good when they've got the government imprimatur like the CBC in Canada or the BBC in the UK? -- Ted Schuerzinger fedya at hughes dot net ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
On Jan 9, 2014, at 5:12 PM, Richard Cuff wrote: > David, I surmise that stations aren't interested in doing that unless > a gun were held to their heads. > > SCA is different - it doesn't directly compete with the principal > station's programming. There are a couple of HD-2's in NYC that are ethnic and wildly different from the main channel. There's a South Indian format, and a Carribean Gospel one last time I checked. Mostly, though the HD-2 format is a slight variant of the main format. > > Look at the situation up in Buffalo - Entercom is the dominant player, > and parks ESPN on its 50 kW WWKB transmitter at the same time it > operates its own locally-originated sports format on 5 kW WGR. You'd > think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB > would annoy shareholders, but Entercom is loath to sell the 1520 WWKB > frequency as it would introduce a new competitor or strengthen an > existing one. > > As our colleague Mr. Figliozzi would point out, this points out a > significant flaw in our commercial radio licensing model - the fact > that spectrum space is a publicly owned asset, and should be managed > to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC and the rest of our > government > > RC > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 11:17 AM, David Goren wrote: >> Is there a prohibition for stations to lease their HD-2 and HD-3 in a manner >> similar to FM subcarrier stations? Otherwise, that could be a model. > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
David, I surmise that stations aren't interested in doing that unless a gun were held to their heads. SCA is different - it doesn't directly compete with the principal station's programming. Look at the situation up in Buffalo - Entercom is the dominant player, and parks ESPN on its 50 kW WWKB transmitter at the same time it operates its own locally-originated sports format on 5 kW WGR. You'd think the squandered opportunity to put a meaningful format on WWKB would annoy shareholders, but Entercom is loath to sell the 1520 WWKB frequency as it would introduce a new competitor or strengthen an existing one. As our colleague Mr. Figliozzi would point out, this points out a significant flaw in our commercial radio licensing model - the fact that spectrum space is a publicly owned asset, and should be managed to maximize the public good, is lost on the FCC and the rest of our government RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 11:17 AM, David Goren wrote: > Is there a prohibition for stations to lease their HD-2 and HD-3 in a manner > similar to FM subcarrier stations? Otherwise, that could be a model. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
heh - you're right, Scott...that definition would be difficult to impossible, and the prevailing concept would be to simply let market forces have their way, and we can see how well commercial HD radio has done. In this region KYW Philadelphia is simulcast on an HD2 FM channel in addition to its clear channel AM status, though up here in Allentown we're at the fringe of HD2 reception for the station in question. RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Scott Royall wrote: > I'm surprised nobody has already pointed out the perils of defining what > constitutes a placeholder format. Everybody seems to have an agenda these > days, and it would appear all too easy to define any given programming as > unnecessary. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
On Thu, 1/9/14, David Goren wrote: > Is there a prohibition for stations > to lease their HD-2 and HD-3 in a manner similar to FM > subcarrier stations? Otherwise, that could be a model. I don't believe there is an FCC regulation that would deny this possibility, which means it is more flexible than second-channel audio. However, a station will have license expenses with iBiquity, the licensed owner of the technology. For sure you'd have issues of annual costs/fees for technology licensing, which I believe is 3 % of the incremental net annual revenue on digital content. Here in Iowa, our statewide public radio network, Iowa Public Radio, has three programming streams. They've started to use the HD-2 channel on some of the transmitters to send a second stream instead of investing in an entirely different frequency. I personally would only use digital AM/FM if I am GIVEN a receiver, as otherwise I wouldn't spend the money. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
I'm surprised nobody has already pointed out the perils of defining what constitutes a placeholder format. Everybody seems to have an agenda these days, and it would appear all too easy to define any given programming as unnecessary. -Original Message- From: Swprograms [mailto:swprograms-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Richard Cuff Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 09:57 To: Shortwave programming discussion Subject: Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news Reminds me of the term "dark fiber" - from the telecommunications industry. When long-haul fiber optic cable was first laid into the ground, expectations were that its transmission capacity would be sufficient for a reasonable number of years, allowing for a reasonable period of cost amortization. However, the manufacturers of fiber optic components soon discovered ways to squeeze more throughput out of a given circuit, which significantly increased the transmission capacity of a given cable - far beyond demand. As a result, parts of the cable weren't "lit up" with optical transmitters (or receivers), hence the name "dark fiber". Digital audio broadcasting, too, significantly increases the transmission capacity of a given frequency (or given frequency band), but there isn't sufficient demand for stations to invest in any sort of "useful" format for these additional channels, as John suggests.. Perhaps what we need is some sort of "use it or lose it" requirement: If stations do nothing other put these "placeholder" formats on the subchannels, they lose their access to the channels, which are then offered up at auction. Sure, the existing station could bid for the spectrum space and thus close out others, However that would overall increase the cost for the stations to "defend" their turf. Unfortunately I don't see the NAB or other lobbyist organizations willing to support such a rule; their interest is to protect their current members. RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM, John A. Figliozzi wrote: > A personal take on the "drive for digital"... (Catchy, eh?) > > Ibiquity arguably has the best technology solution here because it > alone addresses the blackout problem that occurs when the digital > signal degrades below threshold. However, like its digital brethren > (DAB, DAB+ and DRM, there's really minimal interest and demand for it. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
Is there a prohibition for stations to lease their HD-2 and HD-3 in a manner similar to FM subcarrier stations? Otherwise, that could be a model. On the public radio side, HD is actually a good fit for stations that had bifurcated formats. Transition to single formats in public radio has been a very strong trend over the past twenty years...often to the great dismay of fans of the replaced programming. Now, a public station can have news on the main channel, classical or jazz on HD-2 and BBC or similar on three. I like HD from a listener's (not a dx'ers) standpoint. The ease of flipping through WNYC's three stations on one freq is cool. Plus, the Sony XDR series HD radios are wonderful. They're no longer made, bec. it didn't turn into a viable product for Sony as there is very little awareness of HD among listeners. In my own highly scientific personal poll, I have never encountered a non-radio person who knew what HD was...(outside of my beleaguered family.) On Jan 9, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Richard Cuff wrote: > Reminds me of the term "dark fiber" - from the telecommunications industry. > > When long-haul fiber optic cable was first laid into the ground, > expectations were that its transmission capacity would be sufficient > for a reasonable number of years, allowing for a reasonable period of > cost amortization. However, the manufacturers of fiber optic > components soon discovered ways to squeeze more throughput out of a > given circuit, which significantly increased the transmission capacity > of a given cable - far beyond demand. As a result, parts of the cable > weren't "lit up" with optical transmitters (or receivers), hence the > name "dark fiber". > > Digital audio broadcasting, too, significantly increases the > transmission capacity of a given frequency (or given frequency band), > but there isn't sufficient demand for stations to invest in any sort > of "useful" format for these additional channels, as John suggests.. > > Perhaps what we need is some sort of "use it or lose it" requirement: > If stations do nothing other put these "placeholder" formats on the > subchannels, they lose their access to the channels, which are then > offered up at auction. Sure, the existing station could bid for the > spectrum space and thus close out others, However that would overall > increase the cost for the stations to "defend" their turf. > > Unfortunately I don't see the NAB or other lobbyist organizations > willing to support such a rule; their interest is to protect their > current members. > > RC > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM, John A. Figliozzi > wrote: >> A personal take on the "drive for digital"... (Catchy, eh?) >> >> Ibiquity arguably has the best technology solution here because it alone >> addresses the blackout problem that occurs when the digital signal degrades >> below threshold. However, like its digital brethren (DAB, DAB+ and DRM, >> there's really minimal interest and demand for it. > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
Reminds me of the term "dark fiber" - from the telecommunications industry. When long-haul fiber optic cable was first laid into the ground, expectations were that its transmission capacity would be sufficient for a reasonable number of years, allowing for a reasonable period of cost amortization. However, the manufacturers of fiber optic components soon discovered ways to squeeze more throughput out of a given circuit, which significantly increased the transmission capacity of a given cable - far beyond demand. As a result, parts of the cable weren't "lit up" with optical transmitters (or receivers), hence the name "dark fiber". Digital audio broadcasting, too, significantly increases the transmission capacity of a given frequency (or given frequency band), but there isn't sufficient demand for stations to invest in any sort of "useful" format for these additional channels, as John suggests.. Perhaps what we need is some sort of "use it or lose it" requirement: If stations do nothing other put these "placeholder" formats on the subchannels, they lose their access to the channels, which are then offered up at auction. Sure, the existing station could bid for the spectrum space and thus close out others, However that would overall increase the cost for the stations to "defend" their turf. Unfortunately I don't see the NAB or other lobbyist organizations willing to support such a rule; their interest is to protect their current members. RC On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM, John A. Figliozzi wrote: > A personal take on the "drive for digital"... (Catchy, eh?) > > Ibiquity arguably has the best technology solution here because it alone > addresses the blackout problem that occurs when the digital signal degrades > below threshold. However, like its digital brethren (DAB, DAB+ and DRM, > there's really minimal interest and demand for it. ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
Re: [Swprograms] Digital radio news
A personal take on the "drive for digital"... (Catchy, eh?) Ibiquity arguably has the best technology solution here because it alone addresses the blackout problem that occurs when the digital signal degrades below threshold. However, like its digital brethren (DAB, DAB+ and DRM, there's really minimal interest and demand for it. That's partially due to the fact that every survey I've seen shows that's listeners are perfectly satisfied with analog FM and flummoxed by the additional roadblocks presented by transitioning to digital--including cost, reception issues and--in the case of Ibiquity--availability of portable and home receivers. The other reason is that--with the exception of public radio in the U.S.--the decision-making process about what to program on the additional FM channels offered by the Ibiquity technology (termed IBOC for "in-band, on-channel") in the commercial radio realm is as restrictive as a Politburo policy statement. The commercial sector is so afraid of cannibalizing the primary stations that the formats available for the secondary HD2 and HD3 channels are weak, pale derivatives of what's already arguably too widely programmed. When FM first emerged in the mid to late '60s in the U.S., it benefited from a farsighted FCC policy and a more or less noblesse oblige attitude from station owners (multiple individual, not corporately concentrated as today) preoccupied with their competitive, but profitable AM stations. While they weren't looking, significant experimentation with program format, presentation styles and content occurred. Free form and progressive rock were two highly popular formats that emerged on FM that had never been heard on AM. Nothing approaching that free, energetic attitude is coming out of commercial radio today. So, what's the point, what's the attraction for listeners to go out and buy an (often more expensive) new radio? The improved audio argument doesn't seem to fly on its own. Even in the UK where DAB radios have made a significant dent in the market, any discussion of shutting down or de-emphasizing FM engenders rage. John Figliozzi wwlgonline.com Sent from my iPad > On Jan 9, 2014, at 2:53 AM, "Rob de Santos" wrote: > > A slew of news on digital radio today at radiomagonline.com: > > New Siano chip supports both mobile TV and digital radio (DAB, DRM, DVB, etc) > : http://tinyurl.com/qbv4zpy > Ibiquity claims big growth in sales and listening (umm, divide this by the > 315 million population in the US and it’s not as impressive): > http://tinyurl.com/mttlgfg > Frontier Silicon announces 4th generation radio chip (DRM, DAB, IBOC, etc): > http://tinyurl.com/lup5xhz > > And more... such is CES week. > > -- > -Rob de Santos, K8RKD > Horizons Columnist > CQ Plus Magazine > > ___ > Swprograms mailing list > Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms > > To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to > swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL > shown above. > ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
[Swprograms] Digital radio news
A slew of news on digital radio today at radiomagonline.com: New Siano chip supports both mobile TV and digital radio (DAB, DRM, DVB, etc) : http://tinyurl.com/qbv4zpy Ibiquity claims big growth in sales and listening (umm, divide this by the 315 million population in the US and it's not as impressive): http://tinyurl.com/mttlgfg Frontier Silicon announces 4th generation radio chip (DRM, DAB, IBOC, etc): http://tinyurl.com/lup5xhz And more... such is CES week. -- -Rob de Santos, K8RKD Horizons Columnist CQ Plus Magazine ___ Swprograms mailing list Swprograms@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/swprograms To unsubscribe: Send an E-mail to swprograms-requ...@hard-core-dx.com?subject=unsubscribe, or visit the URL shown above.
