Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. ~Maarten ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Cheers, Tom ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n -t ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n TBH, the udev README is the last thing I'm going to check to figure out why I don't have wifi for a couple minutes after boot. Also, the message is missing the point. It's not that it's deprecated and sometimes causes problems -- it's that udev *changed behavior* and breaks your system if you have CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. If udev logged something (for a couple of years), that would be a different story. --Andy ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 11:17:17AM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n ...And this patch is making the kernel default to the correct behavior, instead of the now-broken-by-udev behavior. I'm not sure I see the issue with it? :-) (Add me to the list of people that think udev is broken too, fwiw. But let's at least not leave *both* sides in a broken-by-default state.) ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On 6 Aug 2013 18:32, Bryan Kadzban br...@kadzban.is-a-geek.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 11:17:17AM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n ...And this patch is making the kernel default to the correct behavior, instead of the now-broken-by-udev behavior. I'm not sure I see the issue with it? :-) Oh yeah this patch is totally the right thing to do, I was just arguing that there is nothing to be done on the udev side. (Add me to the list of people that think udev is broken too, fwiw. But let's at least not leave *both* sides in a broken-by-default state.) Well I don't think it is too much to ask that the kernel and udev should be configured in a consistent way. Especially as thing still work even if you get it wrong, albeit with a delay. Cheers, Tom ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On 6 Aug 2013 18:32, Bryan Kadzban br...@kadzban.is-a-geek.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 11:17:17AM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n ...And this patch is making the kernel default to the correct behavior, instead of the now-broken-by-udev behavior. I'm not sure I see the issue with it? :-) Oh yeah this patch is totally the right thing to do, I was just arguing that there is nothing to be done on the udev side. (Add me to the list of people that think udev is broken too, fwiw. But let's at least not leave *both* sides in a broken-by-default state.) Well I don't think it is too much to ask that the kernel and udev should be configured in a consistent way. Especially as thing still work even if you get it wrong, albeit with a delay. Except that the current defaults are inconsistent and there is no explanation anywhere in the logs when this is screwed up. --Andy ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
On 7 Aug 2013 02:26, Andy Lutomirski l...@amacapital.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On 6 Aug 2013 18:32, Bryan Kadzban br...@kadzban.is-a-geek.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 11:17:17AM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Lankhorst m.b.lankho...@gmail.com wrote: Op 05-08-13 18:29, Andy Lutomirski schreef: The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. methinks this patch should be reverted then, Well, all the code is still there, so it can be enabled if anyone wants it. or a stub should be added to udev to always fail firmware loading so timeouts don't occur. I think the only use (if any) of a userspace firmware loader would be for anyone who wants a custom one (i.e., not udev), so we shouldn't just fail the loading from udev unconditionally. How about we just improve the udev documentation a bit, similar to Andy's kernel patch? Sorry, I should first have checked. We already document this in the README: Userspace firmware loading is deprecated, will go away, and sometimes causes problems: CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=n ...And this patch is making the kernel default to the correct behavior, instead of the now-broken-by-udev behavior. I'm not sure I see the issue with it? :-) Oh yeah this patch is totally the right thing to do, I was just arguing that there is nothing to be done on the udev side. (Add me to the list of people that think udev is broken too, fwiw. But let's at least not leave *both* sides in a broken-by-default state.) Well I don't think it is too much to ask that the kernel and udev should be configured in a consistent way. Especially as thing still work even if you get it wrong, albeit with a delay. Except that the current defaults are inconsistent Which your patch fixes. I don't see the problem here... and there is no explanation anywhere in the logs when this is screwed up. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
[systemd-devel] [PATCH] Change CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER to default n and don't select it
The systemd commit below can delay firmware loading by multiple minutes if CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y. Unfortunately no one noticed that the systemd-udev change would break new kernels as well as old kernels. Since the kernel apparently can't count on reasonable userspace support, turn this thing off by default. commit a3bd8447be4ea2ce230eb8ae0e815c04d85fa15a Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no Date: Mon Mar 18 15:12:18 2013 +0100 udev: make firmware loading optional and disable by default Distros that whish to support old kernels should set --with-firmware-dirs=/usr/lib/firmware/updates:/usr/lib/firmware to retain the old behaviour. --- drivers/base/Kconfig | 15 +++ drivers/firmware/Kconfig | 1 - 2 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/drivers/base/Kconfig b/drivers/base/Kconfig index 5daa259..de3903e 100644 --- a/drivers/base/Kconfig +++ b/drivers/base/Kconfig @@ -146,13 +146,20 @@ config EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR config FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER bool Fallback user-helper invocation for firmware loading depends on FW_LOADER - default y + default n help This option enables / disables the invocation of user-helper (e.g. udev) for loading firmware files as a fallback after the - direct file loading in kernel fails. The user-mode helper is - no longer required unless you have a special firmware file that - resides in a non-standard path. + direct file loading in kernel fails. + + Since March 2013, a default udev build does not understand + firmware loading requests. These udev versions will not + even indicate failure; instead they cause long timeouts. + This can dramatically slow down the boot process. + + Say Y only if you have special firmware-loading requirements + and if you have a non-standard helper that will handle these + requests. config DEBUG_DRIVER bool Driver Core verbose debug messages diff --git a/drivers/firmware/Kconfig b/drivers/firmware/Kconfig index 07478728..9387630 100644 --- a/drivers/firmware/Kconfig +++ b/drivers/firmware/Kconfig @@ -64,7 +64,6 @@ config DELL_RBU tristate BIOS update support for DELL systems via sysfs depends on X86 select FW_LOADER - select FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER help Say m if you want to have the option of updating the BIOS for your DELL system. Note you need a Dell OpenManage or Dell Update package (DUP) -- 1.8.3.1 ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
