Re: [systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
On Thu, 22.11.12 13:45, Colin Guthrie (gm...@colin.guthr.ie) wrote: > >> When I see > >> systemctl status ... > >> systemd-journalctl > > This is now just called "journalctl" since systemd v45 > > There is also "loginctl" (which used to be called "systemd-loginctl". > > >> systemd-analyze ... > > This is quite a specialist tool, not really used on a day-to-day basis > by admins. > > >> systemd-cgls > > As is this. > > >> it looks like a messy version of what git does (git ls, git add, git > >> clone, etc). > >> Git started that way too, and eventually brought sanity to the > >> git-world with the top-level cli-ui as we have today. > >> > >> I suggest systemd ought do the same, preferably sooner rather than > >> later (it is still early days for many distros, eg such as Debian > >> which I am on). > > I don't think this really applies here. The day-to-day commands are > really systemctl, journalctl and loginctl (although the last one is > likely not often used). > > The other commands are really not often used which is very unlike git > when I regularly use the different commands. > > So I don't think this kind of wrapper command is really needed IMO. Yes, I agree with Colin here. We currently have the following policy: a) If the user never really calls it directly, it belongs in /usr/lib/systemd/ and is prefixed with "systemd-", so that it appears nicely in "ps" if it is running. b) If it is a more exotic command but sometimes invoked by the user, and required in early boot, it is prefixed with "systemd-", and stored in $rootbindir. c) If it is a more exotic command but sometimes invoked by the user, and only need during runtime or late boot, it is prefixed with "systemd-", and stored in $bindir. d) If it a frequently used command, it is not prefixed with "systemd-" and stored in $rootbindir. These commands are usually suffixed with "ctl" or "adm". So, in summary, we have three different places to store binaries in and try to have a simpler naming scheme for the most frequently used commands. This all is kinda incompatible with the "git" scheme of having a single frontend command you invoke. (Well, or at least not obviously compatible...) I am not convinced that following the git scheme in this regard makes sense... (We get a lot of inspiration from git otherwise, such as autopaging, or the date syntax for --until= and --from= in journalctl, but we should only pick things where we are convinced that they make sense for us, and not blindly copy the whole scheme...) Lennart -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
On 11/23/2012 02:27 AM, Henrik Grindal Bakken wrote: > Colin Guthrie writes: > >> I don't think this really applies here. The day-to-day commands are >> really systemctl, journalctl and loginctl (although the last one is >> likely not often used). > > I think it's a bit annoying that systemctl is > a) so long, and > b) tab-completes poorly > > 'sc'? > > I think this is easy to personalize, and doesn't need to be done upstream at this point. I have sd = systemctl --system ud = systemctl --user log = journalctl loginctl hasn't bothered me yet. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
Colin Guthrie writes: > I don't think this really applies here. The day-to-day commands are > really systemctl, journalctl and loginctl (although the last one is > likely not often used). I think it's a bit annoying that systemctl is a) so long, and b) tab-completes poorly 'sc'? -- Henrik Grindal Bakken PGP ID: 8D436E52 Fingerprint: 131D 9590 F0CF 47EF 7963 02AF 9236 D25A 8D43 6E52 ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> I don't think this really applies here. The day-to-day commands are
> really systemctl, journalctl and loginctl (although the last one is
> likely not often used).
>
> The other commands are really not often used which is very unlike git
> when I regularly use the different commands.
It's actually very much *like* Git, which has both day-to-day commands
(the "porcelain") as well as advanced admin and low-level manipulation
commands ("plumbing") under the same 'wrapper'. How often do you use
"git symbolic-ref"?
Although I don't have a strong opinion on "journalctl" vs "syd
journal" and the like... consistency is good, but users already know
the existing commands.
Maybe `syd` should first be written as a plain 'sh' script that wraps
the existing commands, just to see which one users prefer.
--
Mantas Mikulėnas
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Re: [systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
'Twas brillig, and Zenaan Harkness at 22/11/12 13:30 did gyre and gimble: > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Tollef Fog Heen > Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:12:16 +0100 > Subject: Re: WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface > To: Zenaan Harkness > > ]] Zenaan Harkness > > Hi, > >> Not sure where to send this. I emailed what might be LP. >> Pls use as appropriate. >> >> When I see >> systemctl status ... >> systemd-journalctl This is now just called "journalctl" since systemd v45 There is also "loginctl" (which used to be called "systemd-loginctl". >> systemd-analyze ... This is quite a specialist tool, not really used on a day-to-day basis by admins. >> systemd-cgls As is this. >> it looks like a messy version of what git does (git ls, git add, git >> clone, etc). >> Git started that way too, and eventually brought sanity to the >> git-world with the top-level cli-ui as we have today. >> >> I suggest systemd ought do the same, preferably sooner rather than >> later (it is still early days for many distros, eg such as Debian >> which I am on). I don't think this really applies here. The day-to-day commands are really systemctl, journalctl and loginctl (although the last one is likely not often used). The other commands are really not often used which is very unlike git when I regularly use the different commands. So I don't think this kind of wrapper command is really needed IMO. Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/ ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
[systemd-devel] WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface
-- Forwarded message -- From: Tollef Fog Heen Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:12:16 +0100 Subject: Re: WISHLIST: systemd git-like CLI/ui/command interface To: Zenaan Harkness ]] Zenaan Harkness Hi, > Not sure where to send this. I emailed what might be LP. > Pls use as appropriate. > > When I see > systemctl status ... > systemd-journalctl > systemd-analyze ... > systemd-cgls > > it looks like a messy version of what git does (git ls, git add, git > clone, etc). > Git started that way too, and eventually brought sanity to the > git-world with the top-level cli-ui as we have today. > > I suggest systemd ought do the same, preferably sooner rather than > later (it is still early days for many distros, eg such as Debian > which I am on). If you want this, please take it upstream, to the systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org mailing list. It's not something I'll implement in the Debian package. Cheers, -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are ... So, I propose, just like git has a clean front-end, the following cli/ui as a similarly clean front end for systemd: syd status ... syd jctl ... # jctl might be a "git alias" of syd journalctl... syd cgls syd halt|reboot|restart|start|stop syd cgtop syd nspawn ... and so on and so on ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
