Re: t-and-f: Need help....

[toby -]

don't have my great trials book with me...but did jeff bannister make the 
team that year?


From: "R.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "R.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Kurt Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Need help
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:37:22 -0700

Jeff Bennett finished fourth.
Bruce Jenner finished tenth.
Don't remember who the other team member was.

RT



On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 04:49:16 GMT, you wrote:

 >Here's a question I need help answering:  Who were the (presumably 3)
 >athletes who competed on the US team in the decathlon in the '72 OG in
 >Munich?
 >
 >Thanks in advance.
 >
 >Kurt Bray
 >_
 >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
 >
 >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
 >http://profiles.msn.com.
 >


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t-and-f: The truth Please...

[CPoTaf]

When will it stop!  That is not what happen.  The USA coaches told 
Greene, Drummond and Johnson to concentrate on the 100 meters and not to 
worry about the 4x100m relay until after the 100m finals.  We weren't 
supposed to be at the "Relay Practice."  
As for the allegation of pressure on the coaches, there is none.  The USA 
ran 2 relays in Berlin, one team had 4 men from the same team and happen to 
run the fastest time in the world.  If there is any pressure, it is coming 
from the time not the team.  Don't start with this controversial political BS 
this Olympic games.  The U.S. is going to put the best four men out there 
based on who works best together and has the best handoffs through the 
exchange zones.  If the four men who establishes that fact are from the same 
team, then GOD BLESS AMERICA!  The objective is to bring the GOLD back to the 
USA, not to make a politcal statement or to "put pressure" on anybody.  This 
isn't the 80's and one monkey don't stop the show!   Next, I guess you'll be 
holding up sign like in Atlanta that says "Where's Carl!"  Thanks for your 
support!

The Prince

Re: t-and-f: Need help....

[R.T.]

Jeff Bennett finished fourth.
Bruce Jenner finished tenth.
Don't remember who the other team member was.

RT



On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 04:49:16 GMT, you wrote:

>Here's a question I need help answering:  Who were the (presumably 3) 
>athletes who competed on the US team in the decathlon in the '72 OG in 
>Munich?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Kurt Bray
>_
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
>http://profiles.msn.com.
>

Re: t-and-f: Need help....

[Dan Kaplan]

From:

http://www.decathlonusa.org/history.html

"At the 1972 Munich Games Toomey watched from the ABC TV platform as a
Soviet, the lanky Nikolay Avilov, replaced him as both Olympic champion
and world record holder. Another Soviet, soldier Leonid Litvenyenko, and
Ryszard Katus of Poland, won the remaining medals. The top American,
diminutive Jeff Bennett, lost the bronze medal to Katus (who later
defected to the United States) by a mere ten points. Bennett, who attended
tiny Oklahoma Christian College, stood but 5 feet 8 inches and weighed in
at only 152 pounds. But he was a fierce competitor and had the heart of a
giant. His battle for the final medal in Munich was the closest in Olympic
decathlon annals. An unnoticed but respectable tenth in Munich was a
little known American named Bruce Jenner."

So, Jeff Bennett and Bruce Jenner were there, and there may or may not
have been a third.

Dan

--- Kurt Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's a question I need help answering:  Who were the (presumably 3) 
> athletes who competed on the US team in the decathlon in the '72 OG in 
> Munich?


=
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  @o   Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 <|\/ <^-  ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
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Re: t-and-f: This is what i am talking about

[Ajohn79]

In a message dated 9/18/00 10:24:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Check this out.  Kudos to Maurice Greene and others who stay in the 
 village!  This is sport this is sportsmanship.  This man said what needed to 
 be said>>


I could've sworn that Maurice Greene said that Bolden, Drummond, Miller and 
the rest of the HSI people rented 2 houses for the games. They also hired a 
cook and maid. 

Re: t-and-f: Greene at centre of relay row

[Dan Kaplan]

--- "Paul V. Tucknott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> forwarded:
> Last year, the Americans fielded a quartet of Drummond, Tim Montgomery,
> Brian Lewis and Greene to win the world title in 37.59sec, the fifth
> fastest time ever.
> 
> But last month in Berlin, in unfavourable conditions, the scratch HSI
> quartet clocked 37.65, comfortably beating the "official" United States
> squad.

Uh, with Greene and Drummond running on the unofficial squad, what made
the other quartet, sans its two fastest members, the official squad?

I like how Hudson is their agent when it comes to getting them into meets
and sponsorship arrangements, but he's their lawyer when it comes to
walking out of practice in protest.  That's unbiased journalism.

Dan

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  @o   Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 <|\/ <^-  ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
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t-and-f: Need help....

[Kurt Bray]

Here's a question I need help answering:  Who were the (presumably 3) 
athletes who competed on the US team in the decathlon in the '72 OG in 
Munich?

Thanks in advance.

Kurt Bray
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Re: t-and-f: Virus infected Aussie breaks world record

[Kurt Bray]

>On Sunday, gold medal winner Tom Dolan broke his own
>6-year-old world record in the 400-meter individual medley

Virus-infected maybe, but Dolan is no Aussie.  He is an American.

Kurt Bray
(Not an Aussie either)
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t-and-f: This is what i am talking about

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

Check this out.  Kudos to Maurice Greene and others who stay in the  village!  This is sport this is sportsmanship.  This man said what needed to  be said


http://www.timesolympics.co.uk/communities/athletics/athleticsreport29.html

Sunday, September 17 
Greene wins gold for being one of the Village people
From Oliver Holt in Sydney
Maurice Greene, the world's fastest man, had come to a grinding halt. Asking the 100 metres  world record holder to stand in a queue is a bit like asking Ian Thorpe to tread water but Greene  was doing it willingly and with a smile. His friends and rivals from the United States sprint team  were with him, milling around in the communications centre in the Olympic Village, waiting to buy  phonecards to call home. 

Read on!


Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: Clausen Local Confidence/Everett Outdoes E.T.

[Dan Kaplan]

> < and check out the picture of Mark Everett, too.>>

They're Oakleys; not available to the public.  Whew, everyone can let out
their collective breaths!

http://www.oakley.com/cda/3.0/0,1676,49-TB,00.html

Looks like some sort of gas mask.  I showed the picture to a runner type
and was shocked to receive a "those are cool" response...

Dan

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t-and-f: bahamas looking for gold

[Andre Sammartino]

Bahamas plot relay replay

http://www.olympics.smh.com.au/athletics/2000/09/19/FFXVK6U59DC.html

When Pauline Davis-Thompson saw Cathy Freeman at the training track
yesterday, the pair engaged in a brief conversation.

Davis-Thompson was a silver medallist in the 400metres at the 1995 world
championships in Gothenburg, one of two to pass a spent Freeman in the
dying metres to take the minor medals behind Marie-Jose Perec.
Davis-Thompson did not continue in the 400m, preferring to drop back to the
shorter sprints.

She has some claims to individual honours here, but Davis-Thompson is also
the mainstay in the 4x100 metres relay team for the Bahamas. They're
determined to win, too. ''We're going to beat the Americans,'' she told
Freeman.
 
(more at link)

-
You've got 'til 7pm Tuesday to enter the Bayside/Brooks Olympics tipping comp 
http://surf.to/bayside

Re: (fwd) t-and-f: Clausen Local Confidence/Everett Outdoes E.T.

[Andre Sammartino]

At least if he races in them there'll be something to giggle at other than
his clumsy running style 

><
>and check out the picture of Mark Everett, too.>>

Hurry up if you want to enter the Bayside/Brooks Olympics tipping comp 
http://surf.to/bayside

t-and-f: Clausen Local Confidence/Everett Outdoes E.T.

[CHRIS KUYKENDALL]

1) Not to apply any hometown pressure or anything like that...

http://www.wisinfo.com/journal/sports/091500-6.html

2) And then there was Jim Bendat who wrote...

<>

Comment:  There's a running store in the Dallas-Fort Worth area that 
sells some nice track-fan caps manufactured by a company called 
Mental Headgear.  But I've NEVER EVER EVER seen ANYTHING 
like this


Chris Kuykendall
Austin, Texas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

t-and-f: Greene at centre of relay row

[Paul V. Tucknott]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/olympics2000/athletics-track/newsid_93/930134.stm
 
Maurice Greene has walked out on the US team's 
first relay practice, fuellling speculation of a row within the quartet. 
Greene, the world champion and world record-holder for 100m, took no part in 
the baton-changing session. 
He left the Olympic Park track more than an hour before the practice was 
complete along with Jon Drummond and their lawyer Emmanuel Hudson. 
The relay row is believed to involve Hudson's management company, HSI, 
exerting pressure to ensure the inclusion of Curtis Johnson and Brian Williams 
in the 4x100m line-up. 
Last year, the Americans fielded a quartet of Drummond, Tim Montgomery, Brian 
Lewis and Greene to win the world title in 37.59sec, the fifth fastest time 
ever.  
But last month in Berlin, in unfavourable conditions, the scratch HSI quartet 
clocked 37.65, comfortably beating the "official" United States squad. 
After Greene's departure for the athletes' village, his coach John Smith was 
seen having a long discussion on the infield of the training track with Johnny 
Moon, the US team's assistant coach responsible for the men's sprint relay. 
Moon was conciliatory in his approach, saying: "Major practice does not start 
until Monday, after the individual 100m is out of the way." 
But he firmly denied that he was being put under any pressure over the team 
selection. 
"I will pick the team - I will have my choice, and someone else will have any 
choice. If you asked my mother who would be in the team, she would have a 
different view. 
"It gets ugly every four years whenever there's someone who isn't selected. 
"But we are men, we can shake hands when we disagree." 
'Drive for Five' 
Meanwhile, Marion Jones could be given the crucial third leg in the 4x400m 
relay - her fifth and final event in the "Drive for Five" gold medals in Sydney. 

Jones worked on baton changes with her sprint relay team mates Monday, and 
won a glowing report from coach La Verne Sweat. 
"She looked real good today," Sweat said. 
"We have some issues with some people," Sweat said. "We'll probably work with 
them on baton changes after the individual 400m. 
"Marion will maybe run the third leg in the final, but I'm still not sure 
yet." 

t-and-f: Macey boosted by Dvorak injury

[Paul V. Tucknott]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/olympics2000/athletics-field/newsid_93/930015.stm
 
Decathlete Dean Macey's hopes of winning Britain's 
first gold in the event since the heady days of Daley Thompson have been boosted 
by an injury scare to his biggest rival and title favourite Tomas Dvorak. 
World record points holder Dvorak from the Czech Republic beat Macey into 
second place in last summer's World Athletics Championships in Seville. 
But he needs treatment to a muscle injury on his right thigh after struggling 
to complete a high hurdles race on Queensland's Gold Coast in his final outing 
before the Games. 
Dvorak laboured in finishing the 110m hurdle event in 14.19 seconds, a slow 
time for an athlete aiming to become the first man to break the 9,000 point 
barrier.  
Macey was present at the meeting but not competing, and after being told of 
Dvorak's injury was cautious in writing the Czech off or of talking up his own 
chances. 
"I didn't even know he was injured," said the 22-year-old from Canvey Island. 

Macey, who is looking to revive Britain's fortunes in the event Daley 
Thompson dominated in winning successive Olympic golds in Moscow in 1980 and Los 
Angeles four years later, added: "I wouldn't rule him out but if it opens the 
door then that little crack has been made." 
Macey also refused to accept that injury to Dvorak would leave him with a 
clear path. 
"There are a number of other good guys out there and if Tomas is not fully 
fit you never know what might happen," said Macey who hasn't competed in a full 
decathlon since shocking the world by taking the silver in Seville last year. 

RE: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Christopher Goss]

Kurt said:

 "PS:  I haven't seen any comment, but I assume all US viewers have seen
that
  great Nike ad featuring Suzy Hamilton running from a chain saw murderer.
  Look for it if you haven't - It's hilarious."


Well, if you missed it, you probably missed it.  Nike announced today that
NBC has pulled the ad from the lineup.

More at http://news.excite.com/news/ap/000918/17/sports-nike-chainsaw-ad.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[CORA KOCH]

An interesting question is if the USA television ratings are perceived to
decline because of the tape delays, will NBC in 2004 show the weekend events
live in the afternoon ( USA afternoon = Europe evening)  or still tape to
show everything in prime time. The last comparable situation was the 1992
Olympics but I had triplecast. Does anybody know what they did in 1992?

Ed Koch


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games


>Conway writes:
>
>>And the worst thing is NBC
>>seems to hold everything even longer trying to build drama or something ..
>>I
>>mean the big swimming finals didn't come on til somewhere close to 11pm
>>Saturday night .. When the evening telecast had started at 7pm !!!
>
>I'm noticing a trend so far: NBC shows swimming finals in which Americans
do
>not win the gold at around 8:00 PM, but if a US swimmer wins (or at least
>contends mightily) it is not shown until about 10:30 or 11:00 PM.  We will
>probably see this same pattern for the track broadcasts, meaning that, even
>if we avoid reading results on the net, we can perhaps predict whether say
>Marion Jones wins gold number 1 or 2, etc. based on how long they delay it
>in the telecast.
>
>Kurt Bray
>
>PS:  I haven't seen any comment, but I assume all US viewers have seen that
>great Nike ad featuring Suzy Hamilton running from a chain saw murderer.
>Look for it if you haven't - It's hilarious.
>
>_
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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t-and-f: Virus infected Aussie breaks world record

[A.J. Craddock]

Well, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Tony Craddock


Source: AP

On Sunday, gold medal winner Tom Dolan broke his own 
6-year-old world record in the 400-meter individual medley as 
the Americans seized the spotlight from Aussie teen sensation 
Ian Thorpe to capture two golds, three silvers and a bronze.

It was Dolan's second consecutive Olympic win in the event. 
Teammate Erik Vendt took a silver behind him the second 
one-two U.S. finish of the day. Brooke Bennett and Diana Munz 
took gold and silver in the 400 freestyle.

Dolan, an asthmatic bothered for the last month by a viral 
infection, exchanged high-fives with Vendt before climbing 
aboard the lane marker and exhorting the crowd to echo his 
triumphant screams.

It was a tough swim, said Dolan, 25. I was feeling it 
coming home, but I knew if I got out ahead no one could beat 
me.
___

Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Kurt Bray]

Conway writes:

>And the worst thing is NBC
>seems to hold everything even longer trying to build drama or something .. 
>I
>mean the big swimming finals didn't come on til somewhere close to 11pm
>Saturday night .. When the evening telecast had started at 7pm !!!

I'm noticing a trend so far: NBC shows swimming finals in which Americans do 
not win the gold at around 8:00 PM, but if a US swimmer wins (or at least 
contends mightily) it is not shown until about 10:30 or 11:00 PM.  We will 
probably see this same pattern for the track broadcasts, meaning that, even 
if we avoid reading results on the net, we can perhaps predict whether say 
Marion Jones wins gold number 1 or 2, etc. based on how long they delay it 
in the telecast.

Kurt Bray

PS:  I haven't seen any comment, but I assume all US viewers have seen that 
great Nike ad featuring Suzy Hamilton running from a chain saw murderer.  
Look for it if you haven't - It's hilarious.

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RE: t-and-f: NBC

[malmo]

Don't forget the Food Lion story and the
Audi-brakes-that-work-like-gas-pedal story - both false.

malmo!TM
Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Molvar
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:16 PM
> To: Send t-and-f
> Subject: t-and-f: NBC
>
>
>  A Canadian lamented the frequent complaints
> by US watchers of the monopoly NBC coverage of
> the games.  Two months ago on this list I
> predicted this would happen.  We wish we could
> just watch the action and enjoy it, but NBC's
> "story creating", prepackaged taped delayed,
> theme obsessed coverage prevents that.  The
> coverage is so bad, so phoney and contrived that
> one can't help but comment.  We wish we could
> just watch the action.
>
> Paul stated:
>
> "Don't trust NBC to be at all truthful or
> accurate about their coverage."
>
> That is an understatement.  I don't trust the
> truthfulness, accuracy or context of anything
> reported on by NBC or any Network on anything, be
> it the Olympics, politics or whatever.  They are
> biased and agenda ridden to an extreme.  Just a
> few years ago NBC staged a fraudulent auto
> accident in which they secretly hid explosives
> next to the gas tank of a GMC pick-up truck which
> they remotely detonated during a staged auto
> accident to "prove" their agenda that these gas
> tanks were excessively dangerous.  Fortunately
> they were caught and they admitted it AFTER they
> were caught.  Don't trust these bastards (laugh)!
>
> __
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> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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>

Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Ed & Dana Parrot]

> Cory Beard wrote:
>
> > >NBC's two-day average rating for prime-time telecasts
> > > from Australia is a 14.5. That's 6
> > >percent lower than Seoul's 15.4, and a drop of
> > > 30 percent
> > > from Atlanta's 20.5.


An article on Yahoo indicated that advertisers were promised a minimum
average rating of 16.1 for the entire Olympics, with Chaitrman Dick Ebersol
"predicting" a 17.5 to 18.5.  Depending on the terms of their contract, this
could cost them some serious bucks (although a few nights of riveting track
competition could save them, if they actually show action instead of a
feature on a one-legged midget who is running the marathon).

A related article talked about how their coverage has been panned as being
too contrived.  I don't think we'll ever see the kind of coverage we want,
but perhaps they have gone too far this time and things will be somewhat
better in future years.

- Ed Parrot

t-and-f: Canadian wins first Sydney distance running event

[Michael Rohl]

Netters

Tom wrote:

> My old running pal, Plumb, refreshes my curiosity: what is Simon Whitfield's
> track/running background...would he be, was he, a 2:20 marathoner with that
> ability?  Anyone know?

SOrry I don't know the answer but maybe I can provide this bit of 
insight.

My experience with triathlon was this - I ran open 34:21 10k on the 
road.   At the 1990 U.S. triathalon Championship I ran a split of 
35:20.  I was consistently about 1 minute slower then what I was 
able to do on the course fresh.  I, personally was very consistent 
between the three events however a good runner who is a better 
cyclist has the advantage.   At the time my cumulative time of 2:07 
for the Olympic distance placed me 110 of over 1000 overall.  It is an 
interesting sport and there are some things I believe could be 
learned from the sport.  Triathletes are much more likely to 
experiment and use supplements then distance runners.  I still use 
the intensive cross training techniques I learned then to 
supplements my training.  My feeling about triathletes is that they 
are unquie in their aptitude to be able to do three events well just as 
i have an aptitude to be able to walk better then I can run, as some 
have an aptitude for discus over shot and so on.
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[ed prytherch]

According to reports that I have read, the IOC will publish the names of all
athletes who test positive to the EPO blood test, after the games are over.
It is likely that some athletes are skipping the games because they don't
want their names published.
Ed Prytherch

-Original Message-
From: Bryan Beel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 1:21 PM
Subject: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs


>
>2) Drugs.  I can see where the "rash" of withdrawals from the Games makes
>some people think more athletes are on drugs (ie. Jacobs, Hissou, etc etc)
>but it seems like there's one logical inconsistency in all the
>mud-slinging.  Unless I'm really missing something, it seems that NONE of
>the mentioned athletes would TEST POSITIVE unless they were total morons.
>Nandrolone: who in their right mind would use this with all the current
>testing?  No one.  HGH: can't test for it.  EPO: can't test positive
>unless you've used the "juice" in the last three days.  Isn't that what
>everyone was howling about with the crappy new IOC test, that no one would
>test positive because the urine test had such low power? So why would
>Jacobs withdraw unless she really was sick?  She's sure as hell not going
>to test positive for EPO unless she's got some astoundingly bad trainers.
>Same goes for everyone else.  And it seems, if they used EPO this well to
>get here, they probably are smart enough to stop using it at least 3 days
>before they come to Sydney, don't you think?
>

t-and-f: thanks

[Michael Rohl]

Netters,

Thanks for the help on finding a DC in Sydney for Michelle.  She 
now has several choices.

I would like to say though there may be differences of opinion on 
this list when some one needs help it is good to know this is place to 
go.  In three years I have been on i have never seen a request for 
information or help go unanswered.
Good Training,
  Michael Rohl

Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Conway]

Cory Beard wrote:

> >NBC's two-day average rating for prime-time telecasts
> > from Australia is a 14.5. That's 6
> >percent lower than Seoul's 15.4, and a drop of
> > 30 percent
> > from Atlanta's 20.5.
>
> Isn't Seoul just about as many hours difference from the U.S. than Sidney?
> Wasn't everything shown by tape delay then as well?
>

I had wondered about that too .. I remember the telecast being slightly
delayed, but no where near as long as now .. And the worst thing is NBC
seems to hold everything even longer trying to build drama or something .. I
mean the big swimming finals didn't come on til somewhere close to 11pm
Saturday night .. When the evening telecast had started at 7pm !!! At this
rate the men's 100 final will be run 2am Saturday morning our time but we
won't get to see the race until almost midnight Saturday night .. The
athletes in Sydney will have gone through the day, got a nights sleep, and
be competing in the next days events .. It will be like Melbourne all over -
waiting for news to get across the ocean so we can find out what happened ..
Except we'll be able to get up in the morning, log on to the net, get
complete results, and then have to wait all day AND night to actually see
the race .. Isn;t modern technology wonderful ?!?!?!?

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[Conway]

> 1) RT commented on CBC in L.A. Area.  The bar that the LA Times talked
> about was the Station in Arcadia.  I'll be going there when track gets
> going, but in the interest of my marriage I have stuck with NBC for now.
> As for the woman's point of view (since they supposedly are the target of
> all this "fuzzy" stuff on NBC): my wife HATES the up-close-and-personal
> spots that NBC uses, and an informal poll at work shows at least 80% of
> the women here hate it, too.
>

My mother came to visit this weekend and watching the Olympics was one of
the things that we had planned to do .. Every time one of those segments
came on she kept asking "why do they have to keep showing these things, why
can't we watch them perform and find out about whoever wins ??" ..

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: NBC

[John Molvar]

 A Canadian lamented the frequent complaints
by US watchers of the monopoly NBC coverage of
the games.  Two months ago on this list I
predicted this would happen.  We wish we could
just watch the action and enjoy it, but NBC's
"story creating", prepackaged taped delayed,
theme obsessed coverage prevents that.  The
coverage is so bad, so phoney and contrived that
one can't help but comment.  We wish we could
just watch the action.

Paul stated:

"Don't trust NBC to be at all truthful or
accurate about their coverage."  

That is an understatement.  I don't trust the
truthfulness, accuracy or context of anything
reported on by NBC or any Network on anything, be
it the Olympics, politics or whatever.  They are
biased and agenda ridden to an extreme.  Just a
few years ago NBC staged a fraudulent auto
accident in which they secretly hid explosives
next to the gas tank of a GMC pick-up truck which
they remotely detonated during a staged auto
accident to "prove" their agenda that these gas
tanks were excessively dangerous.  Fortunately
they were caught and they admitted it AFTER they
were caught.  Don't trust these bastards (laugh)!

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

Re: t-and-f: Canadian wins first Sydney distance running event

[Tom Derderian]

My old running pal, Plumb, refreshes my curiosity: what is Simon Whitfield's
track/running background...would he be, was he, a 2:20 marathoner with that
ability?  Anyone know?
Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club
--
>From: tom plumb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: t-and-f: Canadian wins first Sydney distance running event
>Date: Mon, Sep 18, 2000, 4:41 PM
>

>I watched with interest yesterday as Canadian triathlete Simon 
>Whitfield won the men's first ever Olympics triathlon in Sydney by 
>overtaking his competitors in the 10K cross-country running race 
>following a swim and bike ride.
>
>According to the T.V. commentators, he covered the 10K in a little 
>over 31 minutes. I think this is a commendable run and deserving of 
>recognition on our list, coming as it did after his prior exertions.
>
>Tom Plumb
>
>Sacramento

t-and-f: Canadian wins first Sydney distance running event

[tom plumb]

I watched with interest yesterday as Canadian triathlete Simon 
Whitfield won the men's first ever Olympics triathlon in Sydney by 
overtaking his competitors in the 10K cross-country running race 
following a swim and bike ride.

According to the T.V. commentators, he covered the 10K in a little 
over 31 minutes. I think this is a commendable run and deserving of 
recognition on our list, coming as it did after his prior exertions.

Tom Plumb

Sacramento

t-and-f: LIST CHANGE

[R.T.]

Listers,

We are probably going to have a hundred or so people join us
in the next couple of days.
Why?
The 'Select' (moderated) version of the list is pulling
the plug tomorrow night.
You might recall that several years ago the Select list was
set up to provide a filter. People expressed a desire to return
to the original charter (elite t&f/XC/roadrace subjects) but
couldn't make the list get off the mundane NCAA Div.III/HS stuff,
so moderators were set up to filter and forward the messages
to a 'Select' subscribership, messages which 'met the elite test'.
A lot of the subscribers to this service have been outside the
United States, have an interest in top-level athletics, but not
in being inundated with topics on worldwide lower levels (youth, HS, lower-
level college, and 'Masters').
The host of this service is going away, so this service is
now ending, at midnight tomorrow night.  A related change was
the 'archive' moving to a new host a couple of weeks ago.
The moderators of 'Select' discussed the options and decided
not to pursue a new host for Select, but let subscribers
change their subscription over to the 'main' t-and-f@uoregon list.

Therefore, I encourage the following:
1. Welcome the new guests and encourage them to participate in
discussions and not just lurk.  (but lurkers are welcome too).
2. Keep the discussions at a level that will not discuss them
and frighten them off, or cause them to write off the list as
'hopeless'.
3. Keep our overseas friends in mind whenever we write list
notes- ask yourself is this something that somebody in Finland
or South Africa is going to care about?

RT

Re: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Mitchell S. Clair, Esq]

I know that much of the seoul olympics was shown live in the middle of the
night. I was fortunate enough to have a child born in early august 1988. She
clearly was a track loving infant. She was kind enough to wake us every
night at about 2:00 a.m. to be fed during the olympics. This was perfect
timing as We saw almost every track and field final live. And some people
can't wait for their kids to sleep through the night; can you imagine that?
-Original Message-
From: Beard, Cory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Track Listserve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 3:08 PM
Subject: RE: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games


>>NBC's two-day average rating for prime-time telecasts
>> from Australia is a 14.5. That's 6
>>percent lower than Seoul's 15.4, and a drop of
>> 30 percent
>> from Atlanta's 20.5.
>
>Isn't Seoul just about as many hours difference from the U.S. than Sidney?
>Wasn't everything shown by tape delay then as well?
>
>Cory Beard

Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[R.T.]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:48:08 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>1) RT commented on CBC in L.A. Area.  The bar that the LA Times talked
>about was the Station in Arcadia.  I'll be going there when track gets
>going, but in the interest of my marriage I have stuck with NBC for now.
>As for the woman's point of view (since they supposedly are the target of
>all this "fuzzy" stuff on NBC): my wife HATES the up-close-and-personal
>spots that NBC uses, and an informal poll at work shows at least 80% of
>the women here hate it, too.

I took an informal poll this morning during a conversation at work too-
among five women, 100% hated the up-close-and-personal fluff.
They're obviously not part of any NBC focus group!

What surprised me- while they talked about the women's gymnastics
coverage last night-
I commented that the rotations that were being shown were the Australia-
United States-China teams, and it was obvious to me that these were
the 'crash-and-burn' teams, or 'second tier' because there were
occasional comments by the announcers that the first tier teams-
Russia, Romania and so on, would be coming up later.
I commented that I got bored with all the crashing-and-burning, and
would have paid better attention if the coverage had shown the top tier
athletes who are able to 'stick' more of there landings instead of landing
on their face.
But the women seemed to like the human interest that goes with
the dislocated shoulders and fractured ankles and so on.
Certainly a different point of view than me- I like to see the best
of the athletes at their very best producing their best performances-
but that didn't interest the women I was talking to so much as
determination, perseverance, and so forth.  So they were just as much
or more interested in the Australia/U.S./China wobbly attempts at doing
the best they can, as compared to the robotic/close-to-perfection Russia
and Romania performances.

But they definately want to hear the injury stuff only as it directly
relates to what is going on during the competition, and not as part
of 'what the gal had to overcome 10 years ago (fluff/soap opera stuff)'.

RT

t-and-f: Re: Stange coverage (Gymnastics...Take from CBC).

[Harry Welten]

Title: Re: Stange coverage (Gymnastics...Take from CBC).





In response to Ed Grant's issue on the Vault:


   CBC was showing the womens vaulting on Saturday night (Sunday in Sydney). 
   The Chinese who were leading by a big margin self destructed on the vault, 
   with 2 of the girls experiencing bad falls. One of the girls appeared with
   a large ice pack on her knee. The second girl sustained an ankle injury when
   she did not complete her twisting rotation.


   One of the US girls had a Knee first landing and visions of Kerry Strug
   reappeared. The US team appears to be weaker than in previous
   olympics, and will most likely not medal in the team competition.


   The Australians and the Americans were competing at the same time. Romania
   and Russia competed in a later segment.


   One of the premier Japanese men had a bad knee first landing on Saturday. 


   For what it is worth. CBC showed many details of the US, the Romanians
   the Russians and the Ukraine on all apparatus. The Russians and Romanians
   appeared to be the 2 strongest teams.




Ed Grant wrote:


Netters:
    I don't know how many of you watched last night's NBC coverage =
but, if you did, did you have the same thought I did---that there was =
something missing in the gymnastic coverage.


    The most dangerous women's gymnastic event is the vault. It has =
killed at least one international star, crippled several =
others---incoudingnrhChinese girl at the most recent Goodwill Games--and =
wreaked heaven knows what damage on aspiring gymnasts.


    All this is because the springboard was introduced some years =
ago to make a rather dull event into something more exciting.


    Well, the other night (I guess it was Saturday, but we didn't =
get to see it until Sunday, something odd occurred. An Australian girl =
daved herself from possible death and almost certain crippling injury =
when she got her hands down just in time after hitting the "horse" on =
the way down. Her head was inches from the floor when the hands hit.=20


    On her next vault, she did not use the  springboard---no comment =
from the NBC "experts." Then, when the US team got to that event, none =
of the vaulters shown on TV used a springboard. On top of this, coverage =
of the event---which has been a center of Olympic coverage since =
1972--seemed to be cut short; there was a huirried up bit at the end of =
the 4 1/2 hout telecast which told us that the US had qualified, but did =
not even give a list of the scores. There was something odd about the =
whole thing; it certainly wasn't complete reportage.
 Willy Beaman Wrote 


  >400m
  >Cathy - the defining moment of the Olympic Games.  Aboriginal flag makes the loop.    
  >The music plays, and the most endearing image of any Olympic Games is burned into  
  >our minds. 


One of the more defining recent moments was the victory lap of Derarta Tulu and
Elana Meyer after the 10K in Barcelona. This was during the turbulent changing
times in South Africa. The South Africa issue had more impact on the world stage
than the aborinigal plights in Australia. (Don't get me wrong, I am not
diminishing their issues in any ways, but they are more local. We have similar
issues here in Canada, but it is usually not world news.)


...Harry Welten,
   e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   ESN 395-4943 / 613-765-4943.

t-and-f: Cross Country Live

[Dr Kamal Jabbour]

While everyone else marvels at NBC's Olympic coverage, we have been busy
wiring the woods and setting up microwave antennas for our first live
video webcast of a cross country meet. So join us beginning at 9am EST on
Saturday Sept 23 at http://TrackMeets.com for six hours of live cross
country from the Upstate New York Cross Country Series and Auburn High
School Invitational.

DR KAMAL JABBOUR - Engineer, Educator, Runner, WriterO o
2-222 Center for Science and Technology /|\/  <|\
Syracuse University, Syracuse NY 13244-4100  | |
Phone 315-443-3000, Fax 315-443-2583  __/ \  \/ \
http://running.syr.edu/jabbour.html\ \

RE: t-and-f: Ratings don't compare well with past Games

[Beard, Cory]

>NBC's two-day average rating for prime-time telecasts
> from Australia is a 14.5. That's 6
>percent lower than Seoul's 15.4, and a drop of 
> 30 percent
> from Atlanta's 20.5.

Isn't Seoul just about as many hours difference from the U.S. than Sidney?
Wasn't everything shown by tape delay then as well?  

Cory Beard

t-and-f: U.S. distance deline: op-ed in Balto Sun

[Jay Ulfelder]

An op-ed piece in yesterday's Baltimore Sun by former Johns Hopkins x-c coach Michael 
Hill laments the decline in U.S. distance running and attributes it to a shift in 
Americans' approach toward the sport (we got soft on ourselves, he argues). Nothing 
startling to this crowd, but it is interesting to see this kind of commentary on the 
editorial page of a major daily newspaper. Not that it will make a lick of difference, 
of course; Hill would probably get drawn and quartered on the spot (or maybe just sat 
upon till he suffocated) if he said the same thing at the start line of the Marine 
Corps Marathon.

I've pasted an excpert below; the article can be found at: 

http://www.sunspot.net/content/opinion/story?section=opinion&pagename=story&storyid=1150470202884

- Jay

Excerpt: "If you look at the sheer numbers of people running marathons in the United 
States, the base of the pyramid appears even bigger now than 20 years ago. But the 
numbers are deceiving. While more people are running marathons, fewer are trying to 
run as fast as they can. The growth has been at the slow end of the scale, those who 
finish the race in four hours or more. There might be some great runners among those 
people, but we will never know because few of them try to do more than finish, to 
chalk up a marathon as one of their life's goals accomplished. 

Twenty-five years ago, satisfaction came not just from finishing -- that was always 
goal No. 1 -- but from running faster than you had the last time. That was what drove 
everyone I ran with back then. 

Now that seems to be the goal of only a diminishing few. A marathon is something you 
do to feel good about yourself, not to see how bad you can make yourself feel, banging 
your body against that wall at 20 miles and pushing as hard as you can for those last 
10 kilometers."


--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is brought to you by 
the Stanford Alumni Association and Critical Path.

t-and-f: FinishLynx / NCAA Division I Women's XC National Poll #1

[JJRosen]

The first regular season poll will be posted at www.FinishLynx.com in the 
next hour.

Through the XCNow! program, your web site can display the top 25 ranked 
schools, and have the rankings updated automatically whenever changes are 
made. The process is simple, there are no complex scripts or wizardry 
involved. All you need is a plain website and the ability to edit the HTML 
files that go along with it.

Check out the technology!!!

Jesse Rosen,
National Poll Coordinator

Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[P.F.Talbot]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Bryan Beel wrote:
> Unless I'm really missing something, it seems that NONE of
> the mentioned athletes would TEST POSITIVE unless they were total morons.

> EPO: can't test positive
> unless you've used the "juice" in the last three days.  Isn't that what
> everyone was howling about with the crappy new IOC test, that no one would
> test positive because the urine test had such low power? So why would
> Jacobs withdraw unless she really was sick?  She's sure as hell not going
> to test positive for EPO unless she's got some astoundingly bad trainers.

Remember though, while you need to be positive in both tests to be
disqualified from the games, if you fail the blood test, that positive is
reported to your federation.  For some this might be very important,
especially if your federation has to do something like ratify a record.

Given this, you can see how people are suspicious.  Unfortunately for some
athletes, the conjuncture of events casts a cloud of suspicion.  Perhaps
they should openly deal with it and offer to take a blood test so as to
remove all doubt and shut up the cynics.

Paul

***
Paul Talbot
Department of Geography/
Institute of Behavioral Science
University of Colorado, Boulder
Boulder CO 80309-0260
(303) 492-3248
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Easy solution

[Runtenkm]

 

Interestingly I recently noticed a listing of potential events for coverage on each 
night and both the 10k and 5k for m & w were listed but the steeple was omitted which 
contrasts with what we've seen in recent Olympics (only the steeple with a lap or two, 
maybe, of the others).

Steve S.

Re: t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[Dave Carey]

 My wife has essentially no interest in sports.  However, every
once in a while I can get her to sit and watch the Olympics for a
short period.  She asks lots of questions since she is not familiar
with what is going on.  When the up-close-and-personal comes on,
she says, "Oh, no, not this again," and leaves the room.

   Dave Carey

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Bryan Beel wrote:

> 1) RT commented on CBC in L.A. Area.  The bar that the LA Times talked
> about was the Station in Arcadia.  I'll be going there when track gets
> going, but in the interest of my marriage I have stuck with NBC for now.
> As for the woman's point of view (since they supposedly are the target of
> all this "fuzzy" stuff on NBC): my wife HATES the up-close-and-personal
> spots that NBC uses, and an informal poll at work shows at least 80% of
> the women here hate it, too.
> 

t-and-f: 1) CBC 2) drugs

[Bryan Beel]

1) RT commented on CBC in L.A. Area.  The bar that the LA Times talked
about was the Station in Arcadia.  I'll be going there when track gets
going, but in the interest of my marriage I have stuck with NBC for now.
As for the woman's point of view (since they supposedly are the target of
all this "fuzzy" stuff on NBC): my wife HATES the up-close-and-personal
spots that NBC uses, and an informal poll at work shows at least 80% of
the women here hate it, too.

2) Drugs.  I can see where the "rash" of withdrawals from the Games makes
some people think more athletes are on drugs (ie. Jacobs, Hissou, etc etc)
but it seems like there's one logical inconsistency in all the
mud-slinging.  Unless I'm really missing something, it seems that NONE of
the mentioned athletes would TEST POSITIVE unless they were total morons.
Nandrolone: who in their right mind would use this with all the current
testing?  No one.  HGH: can't test for it.  EPO: can't test positive
unless you've used the "juice" in the last three days.  Isn't that what
everyone was howling about with the crappy new IOC test, that no one would
test positive because the urine test had such low power? So why would
Jacobs withdraw unless she really was sick?  She's sure as hell not going
to test positive for EPO unless she's got some astoundingly bad trainers.
Same goes for everyone else.  And it seems, if they used EPO this well to
get here, they probably are smart enough to stop using it at least 3 days
before they come to Sydney, don't you think?

Bryan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

t-and-f: TV coverage

[northam]

How to make your blood run cold in one easy paragraph.
The BBC has a new director of sport, Peter Salmon, who is at present 
observing the Olympics. And the Guardian's media page says: "He's 
interested in NBC's approach to winning huge audiences, which links 
sporting achievements to the human interest stories behind them."
Another triumph of style over substance. But then the Guardian's Maggie 
Brown also writes: "He also points to Channel 4's cricket triumph."
Channel 4's cricket triumph works, in part, because they use graphics, 
analysis, and technical innovation, but also because they have a mission 
to explain the intricacies of a very complicated game to their audience.
Would that the BBC would explain the intricacies of track and field with 
the same enthusiasm.
But you can't IMHO opinion have both, the human interest approach a la 
NBC does not work with the serious approach. Look out for howls of 
anguish from this side of the Atlantic in future.
Randall Northam

t-and-f: Easy solution

[Genevieve Fox]

Folks,

The whining is again covering up the obvious and
easy solution to the poor television coverage. Let 
me help:

Problem:  Up-close-and-personal at the expense of competition

Solution: Athletes can refuse to open up their personal lives.
 "I've had an easy life, riding an air-conditioned bus 20 miles to
  a cush private school in the suburbs. Mom and Dad have
 been married 25 happy years, are healthy, no siblings in 
 jail. I'm just happy to be here in Sidney, and if it doesn't
 interfere with any parties, I will probably show up to the
 starting line. I'll run if I feel ok. If not, I'll just
 return to the athletes village and hang with my friends."

 Potential problems: 1) Egos.
 2) Contract requirements.

Problem: Distance events not shown.

Solution: Americans win medals. 

So if you don't see the 5k/10k shown on the anticipated
night, no Americans won medals, or even contended.
(Steeple is a possible exception since it provides
nice visuals. An American could help that cause by
doing a face plant in the water pit. I nominate Cosey: 
run with the leaders as long as possible, then take the
dive. "Oh, what could have been from the young unknown."
And please do it with more class and dignity than
the D.I.C.K. did in Atlanta.)

One possible outcome from solution 1 is that NBC must
find non-Americans for up-close-and-personals, which will
probably require the use of distance runners to fill
the quota, which means distance runners must be included,
which means they must show their races (well, maybe), 
which means we get to see 5k/10k. 

Easy solutions to easy problems. No charge.

Richard

t-and-f: THE ATHLETICS SITE

[Michalis Nikitaridis]

After an enough long period of absence THE ATHLETICS SITE returns with all
the previously known material on line (results, news, statistics etc) as
well as our new SYDNEY 2K special session.

The session includes the results of all previous Olympic Games, details
about the Greek Team, brief reports from other sports and much more. During
the Games we'll publish full results of all athletics events as well as news
and comments for everything happens in Sydney.

The site is hosted by two different providers. So, you can use the URLs
http://www.athletix.gr  either http://www.eexi.gr/athletix/ to access it.


Michalis Nikitaridis - Panayotis Christopoulos

Re: t-and-f: Strange coverage / This is not track & field!

[Marc Desjardins]

I thought this was a track and field forum, not a TV critics 
forum :-)
 
It would be fun people stop complaining about everything and 
comment more achievements, tactics, technic and performances.  I am amaze on how much people on this list complain about TV coverage as 
they have no knowledge on how to produce a TV show. Track and field on TV in not 
for a couple of track fanatics like most of us. This is the reality and it will 
not change.
 
Here in Canada, as usual, we will be well served by CBC and 
SRC (french CBC). We will see most of the track events (even some 
preliminaries), the most interesting field events (with highlights of the 
prelims). We will not see the complete 10 000m. and 5000m but we will see 
almost all the action. I am very happy with that as it will be more track then 
ever. As a track fan, if I want to see everything (at the Olympics or any other 
meet), the only way is to be on site!
 
__Marc Desjardins[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

  - Message d'origine - 
  De 
  : Ed Grant 
  À : track net 
  Envoyé : 18 septembre, 2000 
  13:19
  Objet : t-and-f: Strange coverage
  
  Netters:
      I 
  don't know how many of you watched last night's NBC coverage but, if you did, 
  did you have the same thought I did---that there was something missing in the 
  gymnastic coverage.
   
      The 
  most dangerous women's gymnastic event is the vault. It has killed at least 
  one international star, crippled several others---incoudingnrhChinese girl at 
  the most recent Goodwill Games--and wreaked heaven knows what damage on 
  aspiring gymnasts.
   
      All 
  this is because the springboard was introduced some years ago to make a rather 
  dull event into something more exciting.
   
      
  Well, the other night (I guess it was Saturday, but we didn't get to see it 
  until Sunday, something odd occurred. An Australian girl daved herself from 
  possible death and almost certain crippling injury when she got her hands down 
  just in time after hitting the "horse" on the way down. Her head was inches 
  from the floor when the hands hit. 
   
      On 
  her next vault, she did not use the  springboard---no comment from the 
  NBC "experts." Then, when the US team got to that event, none of the vaulters 
  shown on TV used a springboard. On top of this, coverage of the event---which 
  has been a center of Olympic coverage since 1972--seemed to be cut short; 
  there was a huirried up bit at the end of the 4 1/2 hout telecast which told 
  us that the US had qualified, but did not even give a list of the scores. 
  There was something odd about the whole thing; it certainly wasn't complete 
  reportage.
      
  Ed Grant. 

Re: t-and-f: Jacobs/toughness

[Alan Shank]

Kristopher Rolin wrote:

> The time that she ran in the 5000m was a large improvement from her
> previous american record. She was on a entirley different level then the
> other competitors in the US

So what? That just means the US has no world-class 5000 runners. On this year's
world list, she's somewhere between 5th and 10th, I believe. The improvement in her
5000 time, contrasted to her lack of improvement in her 1500 time (I believe her PR
dates from quite a few years back, about 4:00.36 or so), could just be due to her
concentrating on the event this year. She had run very few 5000s previously.

> and ran one of the fastest times in the
> world. Some other women from CHINA that ran a little faster were all
> kicked out of the Olympics for drug use.

Well, Geta Wami has the best time this year, at 14:30.88, which is a LOT faster,
and she hasn't been "kicked out" of the Olympics. A couple of years ago, some
Chinese women ran 14:28-14:35 or so; they are not competing in the Olympics.

> She has made some very large
> leeps in the past few years

This is simply WRONG. She was a 4:00 runner many years ago. She had some kind of a
chronic problem, anemia perhaps, that they found out about and treated; as a
result, she was able to run at her best level much more consistently.

> and it is not to unlikely that she may have
> used drugs.

I don't know whether she used drugs or not, but her performances this year,
compared to prior years or quite a few years ago, do not constitute evidence of
drug use.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

t-and-f: Jamaican Runners Back Off Boycott Threat

[Jim Bendat]

from today's Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.olympics.smh.com.au/athletics/2000/09/18/FFX2YXJ69DC.html

and check out the picture of Mark Everett, too.

Jim Bendat


_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

Re: t-and-f: Strange coverage

[P.F.Talbot]

But you have to admit this was a lot better than the last Olympic coverage
of gymnastics when NBC fictionalized the event and just plain made up
stuff that never actually happened.  Like Struggs' "winning" vault.

Don't trust NBC to be at all truthful or acurate about their coverage.  

Paul

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Ed Grant wrote:

> Netters:
> I don't know how many of you watched last night's NBC coverage but, if you 
>did, did you have the same thought I did---that there was something missing in the 
>gymnastic coverage.
> 
> The most dangerous women's gymnastic event is the vault. It has killed at 
>least one international star, crippled several others---incoudingnrhChinese girl at 
>the most recent Goodwill Games--and wreaked heaven knows what damage on aspiring 
>gymnasts.
> 
> All this is because the springboard was introduced some years ago to make a 
>rather dull event into something more exciting.
> 
> Well, the other night (I guess it was Saturday, but we didn't get to see it 
>until Sunday, something odd occurred. An Australian girl daved herself from possible 
>death and almost certain crippling injury when she got her hands down just in time 
>after hitting the "horse" on the way down. Her head was inches from the floor when 
>the hands hit. 
> 
> On her next vault, she did not use the  springboard---no comment from the 
>NBC "experts." Then, when the US team got to that event, none of the vaulters shown 
>on TV used a springboard. On top of this, coverage of the event---which has been a 
>center of Olympic coverage since 1972--seemed to be cut short; there was a huirried 
>up bit at the end of the 4 1/2 hout telecast which told us that the US had qualified, 
>but did not even give a list of the scores. There was something odd about the whole 
>thing; it certainly wasn't complete reportage.
> Ed Grant. 
> 

***
Paul Talbot
Department of Geography/
Institute of Behavioral Science
University of Colorado, Boulder
Boulder CO 80309-0260
(303) 492-3248
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Olympic Moratorium

[Conway]

Walt Murphy wrote:

>   In the spirit of the ancient Olympic practice of suspending all
hostilities
>  during the period of the Games, I am calling on all the cynics, the
> mind-readers, and the conspiracy theorists on this list to put a halt to
> their negative postings until the Games are over.
>   I can't deny that you may have justification for SOME of your posts, but
is
> it really asking too much to let us "dreamers" enjoy these next two weeks
in
> "fantasyland" without being brought down by more negative threads and
> unfounded personal attacks on this list?
>

Agreed .. Will be enough to have to endure the telecast as provided by NBC
without having to wade through the negativity that we sometimes shuffle
through the list .. I would think that we could find much to revel in over
the next couple of weeks without having to dwell on the negative .. We know
what the problems are .. We've discussed them enough .. Lets enjoy the
positives .. At least for a couple of weeks ..

Conway Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Olympic teams (US and others)

[CHRIS KUYKENDALL]

Wilmar wrote:

<>

Erik replied:

>

Yes.  I just looked at it.  They have C.J. Hunter removed and replaced 
by John Godina in the men's shot.  They have Shayne Culpepper now 
in the women's 1500.  So the only apparent correction to the NBC list 
is to delete Regina Jacobs.

On South American and African teams, one can go to the official 
Olympic website:

http://www.olympics.com/eng/

Click on Every Athlete in the blue strip across the top.  Then, on the 
next page in the three horizontal bars in the red over on the right, leave 
the bar for the athlete name blank and pick a nation in the second bar 
and Athletics in the third bar.  This will produce an approximate team, 
except for the matter that this website lists alternates, four athletes in 
the same event, etc.  Of course, one has to do a lot more clicking to 
find out what EVENT(S) each athlete is in.  An additional problem is 
that if a nation has too large a team to get on the computer screen, 
the results only go partway through the alphabet.  But otherwise, it's 
pretty good for Chile, Rwanda, etc.


Chris Kuykendall
Austin, Texas USA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

t-and-f: Strange coverage

[Ed Grant]

Netters:
    I 
don't know how many of you watched last night's NBC coverage but, if you did, 
did you have the same thought I did---that there was something missing in the 
gymnastic coverage.
 
    The 
most dangerous women's gymnastic event is the vault. It has killed at least one 
international star, crippled several others---incoudingnrhChinese girl at the 
most recent Goodwill Games--and wreaked heaven knows what damage on aspiring 
gymnasts.
 
    All 
this is because the springboard was introduced some years ago to make a rather 
dull event into something more exciting.
 
    Well, 
the other night (I guess it was Saturday, but we didn't get to see it until 
Sunday, something odd occurred. An Australian girl daved herself from possible 
death and almost certain crippling injury when she got her hands down just in 
time after hitting the "horse" on the way down. Her head was inches 
from the floor when the hands hit. 
 
    On 
her next vault, she did not use the  springboard---no comment from the NBC 
"experts." Then, when the US team got to that event, none of the 
vaulters shown on TV used a springboard. On top of this, coverage of the 
event---which has been a center of Olympic coverage since 1972--seemed to be cut 
short; there was a huirried up bit at the end of the 4 1/2 hout telecast which 
told us that the US had qualified, but did not even give a list of the scores. 
There was something odd about the whole thing; it certainly wasn't complete 
reportage.
    
Ed Grant. 

t-and-f: Penn State Spiked Shoe Invite XC

[William Bahnfleth]

For those who are interested in early season collegiate XC, which can be 
viewed in live in parks and golf courses around the country without 
up-close and personal features, here are highlights of the Penn State 
Spiked Shoe meet, held Saturday, September 16.  Several rain squalls blew 
through during the meet, including one with small hail that tripped 
lightning alarms on the PSU golf course.  Weather mainly affected the HS 
races, which were held after the two college events.

Bill Bahnfleth

Complete results at http://www.psu.edu/sports/crossc/2000spikedshoe/

WOMEN--6,000 Meter Run

Michigan prevails against a game effort by WVa.  Penn State puts together a 
tight grouping, but too far back to challenge.

WOMEN'S TEAM SCORES (25 teams)

1 Michigan   52(178   16   20   25   27)
2 West Virginia  86(69   12   18   41   56   63)
3 James Madison 112(4   15   24   26   43   46   53)
4 Bucknell  115   (14   17   19   30   35   54   81)
5 St Joseph's   165(3   23   28   47   64   65  142)
6 Penn State167   (22   31   32   38   44   45   66)

INDIVIDUALS

RANK COMP# ATHLETE NAME  SCHOOL  AVG MILE   TIME SCORE
--- 

1   837 Jazwinski, 
Katie  Michigan5:36   20:52.69 1
2   616 Shedden, SonjaCentral 
Florida 5:42   21:16.24 2
3  1058 Kane, Christine   St 
Joseph's 5:43   21:19.66 3
4  1220 Smith, Michelle   James 
Madison   5:44   21:24.16 4
5   823 Everlyne, 
Lagat   Malone  5:46   21:31.43 5
6  1139 Stallwood, RebeccaWest 
Virginia   5:47   21:35.55 6
7   843 Radkewich, 
Katy   Michigan5:48   21:37.78 7
8   835 Froud, 
Julie  Michigan5:48   21:39.72 8
9  1138 Sexsmith, Merissa West 
Virginia   5:48   21:40.60 9
   10   955 Culley, 
Julie Rutgers 5:49   21:41.4010
   11   819 Almond, 
Missy Malone  5:50   21:47.1811
   12  1137 Metcalf, MeganWest 
Virginia   5:51   21:50.1312
   13   630 Como, 
Sarah   Duquesne5:53   21:57.3013
   14   592 Marshall, 
Becki   Bucknell5:54   22:00.2014
   15   719 Banks, Keisha James 
Madison   5:54   22:01.8215
   16   841 Martineau, 
Jane   Michigan5:55   22:04.6116
   17   586 Dennis, 
Theresa   Bucknell5:55   22:07.2317
   18  1135 Lockhart, Karin   West 
Virginia   5:56   22:07.5818
   19   581 Beisser, 
Andrea   Bucknell5:56   22:08.8619
   20   836 Gallo, 
Lindsi Michigan5:56   22:10.5820
   21   768 Seefeldt, 
Megan   Kutztown5:57   22:12.6621
   22   893 Davis, Erin   Penn 
State  5:58   22:14.9522
   23  1062 Quezada, GabbySt 
Joseph's 5:58   22:16.9623
   24   721 Burkett, SarahJames 
Madison   5:59   22:20.0224
   25   845 Spink, 
Jeanne Michigan5:59   22:20.5625

MEN--5.2 Mile Run

A very competitive individual and team race.  Lead pack still looked like 
the peloton in a cycle race at four miles.

MEN'S TEAM SCORES   (23 teams)

1 William & Mary 47(489   12   14   15   21)
2 James Madison  78(236   27   40   44   47)
3 Penn State 82(7   10   16   19   30   32   35)
4 St Francis (Pa)   104(5   17   18   26   38   86  102)
5 St Joseph's   109(1   11   23   33   41   49   58)

INDIVIDUALS

RANK COMP# ATHLETE NAME  SCHOOL  AVG MILE   TIME SCORE
--- 

1  1046 Savage, Karl  St 
Joseph's 4:54   25:30.40 1
2   702 Fox, Mike James 
Madison   4:54   25:32.63 2
3   709 Post, EricJames 
Madison   4:56   25:41.31 3
4  1167 Graham, Sean  William & 
Mary  4:56   25:43.86 4
5  1015 Sell, Brian   St Francis 
(Pa) 4:57   25:45.68 5
6   710 Reutinger, Brian  James 
Madison   4:59   25:57.45 6
7   883 McGinness, Chris  Penn 
State  4:59   25:58.92 7
8  1173 Moran, ED William & 
Mary  5:00   26:00.93 8
9  1164 Fields, Dean  William & 
Mary  5:00   26:01.75 9
   10   872 Carney, Jim   Penn 
State  5:00   26:02.5210
   11  1039 Lanci, JoeSt 
Joseph's 5:00   26:04.1111
   12  1160 Bonnette, EricWilliam &

RE: t-and-f: Murphy Tests Positive

[malmo]

"Oh, Walt. I tell ya, you get no respect. But, at least you're not
Rodney Dangerfield. Someone put Crazy Glue in his Preparation-H!"

malmo!TM
Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics


>
> It must have been that last Tooheys New I had last night. Someone
> must have
> spiked it with Nandrolone!
>
> Walt (I'm innocent) Murphy
>

t-and-f: Sydney Olympics Service

[Mirko Jalava]

Hello!

Tilastopaja Oy Sydney Olympics site offers following:

All results in one file.
Daily results in one file.
Huge database of athlete details.

Please go to http://www.tilastopaja.net and take a look at the service.

Right now it's filled with Seville World Champs results to give you a hint
what the service will look like during the games.

I decided to make this service available because the Official Sydney site
doesn't seem to offer even daily results in one file or provide any
statistical information about the athletes.

AND OF COURSE THIS SERVICE IS FREE OF CHARGE!

Kind regards,

Mirko Jalava
Tilastopaja Oy

t-and-f: The Today Show/Marion Jones

[WMurphy25]

Can't believe I'm watching Monday's Today show live at 10:30 pm in Sydney. 
Marion Jones is scheduled to appear shortly.

Walt Murphy

t-and-f: Philadelphia Distance Run Top 10 Results

[FranciCash]

PHILADELPHIA - Held Sunday, Sept 17, 2000  of the Jefferson Hospital 
Philadelphia Distance Run half-marathon: 

Men 
1. Khalid Khannouchi, Ossining, N.Y., 1 hour, 1 minute, 17 seconds. 
2. William Kiptum, Kenya, 1:01:25. 
3. Mbarak Hussein, Kenya, 1:01:27. 
4. Timothy Cherigat, Kenya, 1:01:39. 
5. Abel Ondeyo, Kenya, 1:02:03. 
6. Joseph Kibor, Kenya, 1:02:08. 
7. Amos Gitagama, Kenya, 1:02:45. 
8. Said Guermali, Morocco, 1:03:28. 
9. Patrick Kiptum, Kenya, 1:03:58. 
10. James Kariuki, Kenya, 1:04:15. 

Women 
1. Catherine Ndereba, Kenya, 1:10:01. 
2. Gladys Asiba, Kenya, 1:10:05. 
3. Alice Chelanyat, Kenya, 1:10:16. 
4. Margaret Atodonyang, 1:11:59. 
5. Irina Suvorova, Russia, 1:12:11. 
6. Yuko Arimari, 1:12:52. 
7. Christine Junkerman, 1:13:23. 
8. Kelly Keeler, Bloomington, Minn., 1:14:09. 
9. Janelle Olson, 1:14:42. 
10. Tatyana Pozdnyakova, 1:14:49.

Re: t-and-f: Murphy Tests Positive

[WMurphy25]

It must have been that last Tooheys New I had last night. Someone must have 
spiked it with Nandrolone!

Walt (I'm innocent) Murphy

Re: t-and-f: Olympic teams (US and others)

[Erik van Leeuwen]

Try http://www.nbcolympics.com/qualify/tf/qualify_tf_set.html

and apply the latest changes (Hunter, Jacobs)

Erik

- Original Message - 
From: Wilmar K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Track and Field Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:48 AM
Subject: t-and-f: Olympic teams (US and others)


> Hello,
> Apologies for asking a fairly silly question through the whole list, but
> I am looking for olympic selections. The US team for one and most
> urgent, but does anybody know where to find all (or as many as possible)
> teams? I've got most European selections, but am missing quite a few
> African and South-American selections.
> Thanks,
> 
> 
>