Re: t-and-f: Officials are stripping kids of some of the most fond memories of their HS years
At 09:36 PM 6/7/01 -0400, malmo wrote: Woe is me...it's society's fault...society made what I am...society made me miss my event... One day your All American high schooler will be facing the stupid rules of his employer. Being on-time is Rule #1. Check into work only five minutes late...well, you know the rest. Do it for the children ;) malmo If you design a tall building so rigidly that it won't sway in a strong wind... In the publishing business, deadlines are everything. But flexibility on the day is absolutely essential to maintaining quality, morale, and sanity. For me, employers with stupid rules invariably have become ex-employers. I ran a XC race in high school in the type of driving rain that only North Carolina can get in the autumn. Probably a hurricane or something. Never got the chance to run the course beforehand. Spotters on the course bailed out (sensibly). By halfway there were only two of us way out front making our best guesses about which trail to take in the woods at intersections. Finally we popped out of the woods to run down 10 feet of stone steps covered in mud and water, splashed through a field with water above our ankles, finally finishing on the track. Good, solid euro XC. Never got the mud stains out of my uniform. Problem was, my buddy and I popped out of the woods at the wrong place. The powers that be figured we cut 50 yards or so off the course and at first DQd us. But then, considering the fact that we were a good 150-200 yards ahead of the rest of the field, they reinstated us. I'm biased, of course; but I thought those officials exercised good judgment. Steve -- Steve Grathwohl Duke Mathematical Journal * International Mathematics Research Notices [EMAIL PROTECTED] * +001 919-687-3634 * fax: +001 919-688-5595 http://www.dukemathjournal.org
t-and-f: Lare reporting
Netters: Just to clarify the posts about the late eporting at the NJ AG meet Two outstanding athletes were involved: Dwight Ruff of Camden in the HH and Tawana Watkins of Paterson Kennedy in the 200M. Each had won an earlier event, Ruff the IH and Watkins the 400. First, about the system of check-ins. It is possible to check in athletes for events before the meet begins. The clerk's table had a layoujt which enabled coaches to place cards in the event selected; this system was inaugurated this year specifically to avoid problems like those envountered by Ruff and Watkins. Three calls are made for each event. One problem is that often the third call is followed immediately by an announcement that the event is closed. In NJ, where I usually officiate and most often as the announcer, we have a policy of announcing First and Final Call and this works very well. Occasionally, if the athletes seem slow in reporting, I get a request to make a very final call. Getting the athletes to the post on time is, of course, the coach's responsibility. In Watkins' case, I was told she was sitting with some athletes from a rival team (she was the only Paterson kennedy athlete in the meet) hollding her card in her hand and simply didn't get over to check in until the event was closed. Since she had qualified in only two events and since there is no team score anyaway in this meet, I cannot see why her cards were not entered before the meet. There is no penalty for scratching from an event and, anyway, the 200 was the last one she was to run. Even if Ruff had been entered early and then scratched from the HHs, he would still have been able to run the relay. Ed Grant
t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school
List members: A few days ago, there was talk about the best improvements since high school in the mile. One name that was not mentioned was Dick Buerkle. I went on a run with him this morning and he mentioned that his high school best was 4:28, his senior yerar. His Senior year was his first year of competitive running. I believe his official best ever ended up being 3:54 indoors. Just curious to know if the person that was compiling that list had Dick Buerkle anywhere on it? Tim Willis (770) 939-7669
Re: t-and-f: HS PV endangered
Some people will be glad to eliminate the vault for any reason. The pits are allready expensive and having enough poles for everyone to jump on (within the wieght rules) also costs too much but I think the event will survive in most states. Right now the pole vault has to be one of the most popular events in USA track and field. This year over a 1000 coaches and vaulters came to Reno for the summit. There on beach vaults and street vaults all over the country. Stacy Dragila has gotten more news coverage than most track athletes. The vault is a fun and exciting event that will endure all rule changes. John
t-and-f: Czech Federation marketing revisited...
Hi all, For those of you who responded to my post last weekend about a rather sexy photo used by the Czech Federation, an update... In an email this morning, a rep from the federation explained the marketing campaign thusly... The photo of a nude (tastefully done, I assure you!)Jitka Burianova (400 runner) is part of a new image the federation hopes will attract young people to TF, associating sport with healthy and beautiful bodies. A male athlete, sprinter Radek Zachoval, is also part of the campaign... http://www.olt.cz/atletika/atletika800/welcome.htm Cheers! -| Bob Ramsak| TRACK PROFILE News Service| *Images, Features and Coverage of Track Field, Road Racing and Olympic Sport| Cleveland, Ohio USA| [EMAIL PROTECTED]| http://www.trackprofile.com| Sign up for your FREE subscription to the weekly TRACK PROFILE READERand OHIO Track Running Report at http://www.trackprofile.com/newsletter.html---
t-and-f: Arrogant officials and decisions...
While there are certainly arrogant officials, let us not forget that the pool of officials is becoming older. With all due respect to those veterans officials, there are certainly some of them who should retire. However, to get competent officials for high school or college meets is getting harder and harder each year. Finding qualified officials who know both college and high school rules is not easy, then to ask them to stay out in all kinds of weather all day for a bag lunch, a hat, and perhaps a small stipend is not my idea of a good time. Granted that there is a power struggle between the high school federation and USATF, some officials see themselves as only working if they can be in charge or in a high position, the fact that there are too many sets of rules in effect in the various states, and that the average age of those willing to volunteer is getting older, the key questions is what is to be done. Certainly, officials should be there for the student-athlete and not to pad their own resume or stroke their egos. However, noting that, solutions must be found, developed, and implemented before the changes that some many of those posted can be made. What is going to need to take place for this situation to improve is not going to be easy or even possible for some. 1. A standardization of rules in this country, with the differences found in the particulars of the age divisions, not in the base rules of competition. 2. Appropriate training for officials, not just meeting to look at old films or discuss how things used to be. 3. A cooperative agreement with USATF and the National High School Federation and a compelling of the member state associations to follow the standard rules. 4. Appropriate and adequate compensation for officials. While we all would like to have them work for free, it's not going to happen too much now. I am sure that many of the members of the list could find other things to add to this list. However, just discussing the matter is not going to make this situation change. Until it does, the sport is going to have to deal with officials on ego trips, officials not knowing the appropriate rules, officials refusing to work meets unless they can be in charge or in a highly visible position (or not doing the dirty work), and officials getting selected for meets based on who they know, not what they are willing and qualified to do. Any takers on helping to try to solve this dilemma? Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA
Re: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school
At 07:36 AM 6/8/01 -0700, Tim Willis wrote: List members: A few days ago, there was talk about the best improvements since high school in the mile. One name that was not mentioned was Dick Buerkle. I went on a run with him this morning and he mentioned that his high school best was 4:28, his senior yerar. His Senior year was his first year of competitive running. I believe his official best ever ended up being 3:54 indoors. Just curious to know if the person that was compiling that list had Dick Buerkle anywhere on it? Tim Willis (770) 939-7669 I don't have The Four-Minute Mile with me, but if Roger Bannister broke 5 minutes in high school (before he got to Oxford) then it wasn't by much. Steve -- Steve Grathwohl * [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values, but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it. -- Bertrand Russell
t-and-f: Officials redux
Netters: It isn't just what happens the day of the meet that is sometimes affected by poor officiating. As a statistician, I have had to wipe out three marks from NJ performamnce list for the following reasons: Case 1: A 400 time was nullified when I was informed, a couple of weeks later, that they had put the runners on the three-turn stagger in a two-turn race and this lad had the outside lane. We had this happen a couple of years ago and, in that case, the boy ran so fast that even his converted time is still in the top 50. Case 2: U learned from two sources this week that a 17-5 long jump which has been the list for a couple of weeks was actually 12-5! The official wrote it down wrong and, even though the girls' other jumps were all in the 12-13 foot range and even though she herself said it was 12-5, the official refused to change it and the coaches resfused to admit trhe mistake even in the face of what their athlete said Case 3: Another case of a 7 and a 2 hgetting mixed up. One of our better girl HJers (with a PR of 5-4) was credited with 5-7 in an early meet this year and, a month later, I was told, authoritatively, of the error. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Officials redux
In a message dated 6/8/01 2:40:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Case 2: U learned from two sources this week that a 17-5 long jump which has been the list for a couple of weeks was actually 12-5! The official wrote it down wrong and, even though the girls' other jumps were all in the 12-13 foot range and even though she herself said it was 12-5, the official refused to change it and the coaches resfused to admit trhe mistake even in the face of what their athlete said At the North Carolina state meet a few yrs ago a team was credited with a time that established a new state record, 42 something. Everyone knew an error had been made but all refused to chnage the time to the correct one and the coach insusted his boys had run that fast even though their prior best was nowhere near the time they were credited for. That mark still stands.
Re: t-and-f: Unrelated to track... Sorry
Hey everyone... I got this brain teaser today and can't figure it out. I figured you all are such a knowledgable group, maybe you can help me. I won't send another message unrelated to track... I promise. what letter comes next. P N B R D ? Thanks, Mike _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: American junior record
Justin Gatlin 's 10.08 for the 100 meters at the NCAA's last weekend equalled the American junior record by Andre Cason in 1988. However, apparently Stanley Floyd ran a (wind-legal?) 10.07 in 1980 when he was junior eligible. Anyone know why that performance is not considered the AJR? Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
Re: t-and-f: JUCO results
An omen? 6 Allan Kipchoge, South Plains College, Levelland, TX 32:45.44 Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: New Junior WR in the Javelin
I thought that some of my Nordic colleagues might hav reported. But anyway - On Thursday night - Nordic Challenge, a match between Norway - Sweden - Finland, began in Fana outside of Bergen, Norway. This was the first leg of three in a match between the three countries (one leg in Uppsala, Sweden on June 12, followed by one in Kuortane, Finland). The big result in the first part was a superb Junior World Record in the Javelin by Norway's 19 year old Andreas Thorkildsen. He threw 83.37 (275' 2) in pouring rain and cold temperature of around 50°F. This gave him a clear win from world class throwers as Nowegian Pål Arne Fagernes, and Finnish duo Harri Haatainen and Teemu Paasanen. Mats Åkerlind Gävle, Sweden
t-and-f: Athens Grand Prix
Maybe the best ever in Greece is expected to be the Athens Grand Prix, to be held on coming Monday. According to the final entries of "Tsiklitiria 2001", announced today by the organising Club "PANHELLINIOS" and its President Mr. Minos Kyriakou, twenty four Sydney's medalists and four world record holders are going to compete in the Olympic Stadium of Athens. From: http://www.athletix.net 11 June 2001 Athens, Greece START LISTS MEN 100 metres Maurice Greene (USA), Ato Bolton (TRI), Charris Papadias (GRE), Bernard Williams (USA), Tim Montgomery (USA), Matthew Quinn (RSA), Abdul Zakari (GHA), Dennis Michell (USA), Georgios Theodoridis (GRE), Aristotelis Gavelas (GRE), Llewellyn Bredwood (JAM) 200 metres Constantinos Kenteris (GRE), Francis Obikwlu (NGR), Floyd Heard (USA), Andre Silva (MAU), Stefan Buckland (MAT), Ricardo Williams (JAM), Patrick Van Balkom (BEL), Patrick Stevens (BEL) 1.500 metres Ali Said Sief (ALG), Noah Ngeny (KEN), Rui Silva (POR), Reyes Estevez (ESP), Panayotis Stroubakos (GRE), Pavlos Farougias (GRE), Kevin Sullivan (CAN), Vyacheslav Sabunin (RUS), Driss Maazouzi (BEL), Laban Rotich (KEN), John Kibowen (KEN), John Mayock (GBR), Peter Philip (SUI), Savros Karres (GRE) 5.000 m. Benjamin Limo (KEN), Sammy Kipketer (KEN), Daniel Komen (KEN), Evans Rutto (KEN), Assefa Mezegebu (KEN), Daniel Gahara (KEN), Tom Nyariki (KEN), Hailu Mekkonen (ETH), Brahim Jabbour (MAR), Abdelrahim Gurmi (MAR), Sergey Lebend (UKR), Antonios Papantonis (GRE), Marco Kembet (ETH), Lambros Zaragas (GRE) 110 m. hurdles Anier Garcia (CUB), Colin Jackson (GBR), Chris Phillips (USA), Zivko Videnov (BUL), Elmar Lichtenegger (AUT), Yunier Hernandez (CUB), Dan Phillibert (FRA), Dimitrios Pietris (GRE) 3.000 m. steeple Jonathan Kandie (KEN), Brahim Boulami (MAR), Laid Bessou (ALG), Abraham Cerono (KEN), Eliseo Martin (KEN), John Kosgei (KEN), Antonio Himenez (ESP), Jose Luis Blanco (ESP), Eliud Bargeduni (KEN), Khamis Abdellah Seifeddine (QAT), Josefat Kapkori (KEN) High Jump Javier Sotomayor (CUB), Sergey Klyugin (RUS), Abderrahmane Hamad (ALG), Lambros Papakostas (GRE), Sergey Dymchenko (UKR), Jaroslav Rybakov (UKR), Marc Boswell (CAN), Andrey Sokolovskiy (UKR), Kwagu Boateng (CAN), Vyacheslav Voronin (RUS), Dimitrios Kokotis (GRE), Dimitrios Syrakos (GRE), Georgios Mitrakos (GRE) Long Jump Ivan Pedroso (CUB), James Beckford (JAM), Constantinos Koukodimos (GRE), Roman Shchurenko (RUS), Luis Melis (CUB), Stergios Noussios (GRE), Vitaliy Skurlatov (RUS), Yuned Moudrik (MAR), Hussein Taher Al Sabee (KSA), Kevin Dilworth (USA), Alexander Lucasevich (UKR), Mohamed Hassine Mersal Hatem (EGY), Stergios Nousios (GRE) Javelin Throw Constantinos Gatsioudis (GRE), Aki Parviainen (FIN), Harri Haatainen (FIN), Sergey Makarov (RUS), Steven Backley (GBR), Boris Henry (GER), Dimitrios Polymerou (GRE), Emeterio Gonzales (CUB), Raymond Hecht (GER), Sergey Voynov (UZB), Mike Hill (GBR), Dimitrios Polymerou (GRE), Isbel Luases (CUB) WOMEN 100 metres Katerina Thanou (GRE), Christine Arron (FRA), Zhanna Pintusevich (UKR), Debbie Ferguson (BAH), Marie Leonie (CAM), Torri Edwards (USA), Kellie White (USA), Petya Pendareva (BUL), Marina Kislova (RUS), Lyubov Perepelova (UZB), Eufrosyni Patsou (GRE), Georgia Kokloni (GRE), Magda Pantaleon (GRE), Athanassia Perra (GRE). 400 metres Kim Baten (USA), Dion Hemings (JAM), Catharine Murfy (GBR), Heidi Seyerling (RSA), Michelle Collins (USA), Olabisi Afolabi (NGR), Olesya Zykina (RUS), Sandie Richards (JAM), Chryssoula Goudenoudi (GRE). 800 m. Irina Mistyukevich (RUS), Brigitta Langerholc (SLO), Natalya Dukhnova (BLR), Helena Fuchsova (RUS), Julia Kalatajud (CUB), Sandra Stals (BEL), Svetlana Cherkasova (RUS), Luciana de Paola Mendes (BRA), Jolanda Ceplak (SLO), Faith Macharia (KEN), Fabian Dos Santos (BRA), Helena Afanasieva (RUS), Agnes Samaria (NAM), Angeliki Raftaki (GRE), Carolina Skourti (GRE), Pagona Nika (GRE), Maria Protopapa (GRE), Maria Papadopoulou (GRE) 400 m. hurdles. Sandra Glover (GBR), Dion Hemmings (JAM), Daimi Pernia (CUB), Ionela Tirlea (ROM), Natalya Torshina (KZK), Kim Batten (USA), Heike Meissner (GER), Surita Febbraio (RSA), Debbie Parris (JAM), Eleni Kalogerou (GRE), Christina Chatzi (GRE) Pole Vault Sveltana Feofanova (RUS), Elena Isinbajeva (RUS), Pavla Hamackova (CZE), Anzhela Balakhonova (UKR), Daniela Bartova (CZE), Tatiana Grigorieva.(AUS), Elena Belyakova (RUS), Nicol Humbert (GER), Vala Flossadotir (ISL), Georgia Tsiligiri (GRE), Thalia Iakovidou (GRE), Dimitra Emmanuel (GRE), Doris Auer (AUT), Tanya Koleva (BUL), Errica Prezerakou (GRE) Triple Jump Tereza Marinova (BUL), Tatjana Lebedeva (RUS), Elena Govorova (UKR), Christina Nikolau (ROM), Anja Valant (SLO), Elena Lebedenko (RUS), Anastassia Ilyna (RUS), Olga Yershova (RUS), Magdaline Martinez (CUB), Baya Rahouli (ALG), Oksana Rogova (RUS), Chryssopigi Devetzi (GRE), Yannoula Kafetzi (GRE) Discus Throw Elina Svereva (RUS), Franka Dietzsch (GER), Nicoletta Grasu (ROM), Stella Tsikouna (GRE),
Re: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school
Bannister ran 4:53 as a freshman at Oxford. He probably didn't have an opportunity to run track in high school. Ed - Original Message - From: Steve Grathwohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school At 07:36 AM 6/8/01 -0700, Tim Willis wrote: List members: A few days ago, there was talk about the best improvements since high school in the mile. One name that was not mentioned was Dick Buerkle. I went on a run with him this morning and he mentioned that his high school best was 4:28, his senior yerar. His Senior year was his first year of competitive running. I believe his official best ever ended up being 3:54 indoors. Just curious to know if the person that was compiling that list had Dick Buerkle anywhere on it? Tim Willis (770) 939-7669 I don't have The Four-Minute Mile with me, but if Roger Bannister broke 5 minutes in high school (before he got to Oxford) then it wasn't by much. Steve -- Steve Grathwohl * [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values, but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it. -- Bertrand Russell
t-and-f: Radcliffe starts on streets of New York
The Electronic Telegraph Saturday 9 June 2001 Tom Knight MARION JONES competes in Saturday's US Open meeting in Palo Alto, California, her first race since her separation from husband C J Hunter was announced. Jones, the triple Olympic gold medallist, faces world champion Inger Miller over 200 metres. Britain's Paula Radcliffe has chosen the streets of New York to open her season today, in a 10km race against Portugal's Fernanda Ribeiro, the 1996 Olympic 10,000m champion. It will be their 21st race against each other, with Ribeiro leading 12-8. Radcliffe, who finally won the world cross-country title, at her ninth attempt, this year, is full of confidence for the track season. She said: The cross-country was a really big thing for me. It's something that's there now and I've achieved it. Because it's there, I'm more relaxed. I'm coming into this race hungry because I haven't raced now for six to seven weeks. I think me and Ribeiro are very close. I tend to be pretty much consistent around a certain mark. I might be a little bit down, a little bit up. But Fernanda can be way down or she can be right there. It's difficult predicting what kind of shape she's going to be in, but I always respect her. Russia's Ludmila Petrova, the 2000 New York City Marathon winner, said ominously: I will run behind Radcliffe and will keep behind her. The course record for the New York Mini Marathon, Grete Waitz's 31 min, has lasted since 1980. In Radcliffe's absence, the rest of Britain's 10,000m runners attempt to achieve World Championship qualifying times in Watford. Eamonn Condon www.RunnersGoal.com
t-and-f: Chambers fastest
The Electronic Telegraph Saturday 9 June 2001 Tom Knight DWAIN CHAMBERS ran the fastest 100 metres by a European this year to blow away the opposition in last night's Grand Prix Two meeting in Seville. On the same track where he won a World Championship bronze medal, Chambers recorded 10.01sec. There was a blow for fellow Briton Jason Gardener however, who pulled up when leading at the halfway point. But Chambers was left to look back on a performance that left top Nigerian Deji Aliu and American Brian Lewis for dead. In the 400m, Daniel Caines finished sixth - his time of 45.58sec only 0.21sec outside his personal best - but Greg Haughton was the clear winner in 44.58sec. Chris Rawlinson ran his quickest time of the year - 48.91sec - in the 400m hurdles to finish second behind American Eric Thomas. Olympic heptathlon champion Denise Lewis finished second in the 100m hurdles and third in the long jump. The Birchfield Harrier was well ahead until knocking over the sixth hurdle then colliding with the next, which enabled Spain's Raquel Fraguas to win in 13.33sec. Catherine Murphy set a personal best 51.84sec in the 400m, finishing fourth as Michelle Collins won in 50.66sec. Eamonn Condon www.RunnersGoal.com
RE: t-and-f: best mile improvements since high school
Don't forget, Burkle set the indoor WR. in the mile. One name that was not mentioned was Dick Buerkle. I went on a run with him this morning and he mentioned that his high school best was 4:28, his senior yerar. His Senior year was his first year of competitive running. I believe his official best ever ended up being 3:54 indoors. Just curious to know if the person that was compiling that list had Dick Buerkle anywhere on it? Tim Willis (770) 939-7669 I don't have The Four-Minute Mile with me, but if Roger Bannister broke 5 minutes in high school (before he got to Oxford) then it wasn't by much. Steve -- Steve Grathwohl * [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values, but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it. -- Bertrand Russell
t-and-f: mile improvement since high school
Below is my full list of mile improvements since high school. After studying it a bit, the fact that somebody has improved 30 seconds (and broken 4 minutes) usually means that they weren't training enough for the mile, or that they were running the wrong event. It is more interesting to look at the sub 4:10 milers and to see how much they improved. Since they must have worked pretty hard to get to that level. Of course the Webb factor makes the list more interesting. Here is my full list http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/slowmilers.htm High School Improvement List Improvements from High School times to pr's HS all time PR Secs improve Roger Bannister 4:52.0 3:59.652.4 Scott Strand4:504:00+ 50** Liam O'Neil 4:504:02??48 John M. Landy 4:43.8 3:58.045.8 Dick Beurkle4:363:55 41 Brian Culley4:514:19 32 Tom Byers 4:213:50 31 Finn Pincus 4:534:22+ 31 Paul McMullen 4:21.5+ 3:51.7+ 29.8 Dave Wottle 4:22?? 3:53 29 Mark Beeman 4:274:00 27 Jamey Harris4:19+ 3:54.90 24 Tom Carleo 4:23+ 4:00+(3:41.9) 23+ Steve Scott 4:10+ 3:47 23 Paul Talbot 4:384:16 22 John Jordan 4:244:02 22 Mark Coogan 4:203:58 22 John Schiefer 4:203:59+ 21 Steve Holman4:10+ 3:49+ 21 Bill Burke 4:143:53+(3:35) 21 Buck Jones 4:173:57 20 Brian Gallagher 4:18+ 3:59 19 Darren Shearer 4:183:59 19 Marc doc Davis4:133:54 19 Joe Falcon 4:083:49 19 Phil Lussier4:16? 3:58+ 18 Paul Cummings 4;10.7 3:56.414.3 John Gregorek 4:053:51 14 Bob Kennedy 4:063:56 10 Marty Liquori 3:59.8 3:52.2 7.6 Matt Centrowitz 4:01.27+3:54.9 6.4 Jim Ryun3:553:51 4 Time Danielson 3:59.4 3:59.4 0 Gerry Lindgren 4:01.5 4:01.5 0 Rich Kimball4:02.4 4:02.4?0 Alan Webb 3:53.43 ?? This is an interesting list, its not necessarily better to be on the top or the bottom.(well the very bottom is rather disappointing, but most high school athletes don't improve) I'm really only interested in people who have broken 4:00 minutes or the metric equivalent 3:41.45 or TF's 3:42.2 here are two great lists sub 4 milers and sub 4 milers chronologically If you are on those lists please submit me your HS pr and I will add you to this list. Thanks Patrick E. Hoffman back to XC,Track and Running Analysis Patrick E. Hoffman, Sc.D Anvil Informatics http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffmanAnalysis and Visualization of Information X-Country, Running Analysis600 Suffolk St. Lowell, MA 01854 Best Web track calculator [EMAIL PROTECTED] All time HS lists X-Radviz and other MDMV Visualizations
Re: t-and-f: mile improvement since high school
Does Frank Shorter belong on this list. How fast did he run in hs? and what is his PR? just curious. Steve
