Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Who was the last male junior beating a WR? I have a name but he didn't have the WJR! I think Moses Kiptanui (21) is the youngest recordholder in 3000m steeple (8.02.08-92). Hans-Erik Pettersson - Original Message - From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:58 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren Stephen Cherono (date of birth 15Oct82) set a world junior record in the 3000 steeple of 7:58.66 at Van Damme meet last Friday. I thought Raymond Yator's 2000 WJR of 8:03 for the Steeple would last a long, long time. But, they found a new faster junior in Kenya. I believe that 3.38secs/3000m (= 0.00113 secs/m) is the smallest difference in percentage terms between the WR and WJR for any running event, for men at least. If that same percentage difference could be achieved for other events, the WJR's would be: 100m: 9.90 400m: 43.63 800m: 1:42.00 1500m: 3:27.68 5k: 12:44.83 However, maybe teenagers can come closer to seniors in an undemanding event like the steeple. It's such a short race and those hurdles take so little out of you when you are just a kid. Maybe you don't need years of training to run 63's over the barriers for 8 min. UGH!
Re: t-and-f:Pre
Hey help me out here. Last week, or maybe 2 weeks ago now, when someone wrote about the education of Pre I was wondering, did Steve Prefontaine gradute with a degree from Oregon? Does anyone know in what subject? Thanks, Dave Ponas
t-and-f: Jumping Gala Res.
from iaaf. org Jumping Gala Salgotarján, Somosk? 26 August 2001 - Somosk?, Hungary - Sunday's Salgótarjáni Ugrógála, Jumping Gala, in Somosko, Hungary was won decisively by Cuba's Javier Sotomayor with a clearance of 2.35 metres, his best performance this year. 2.35 Sotomayor (CUB) 2.25 Boswell (CAN) 2.18 Boateng (CAN) 2.18 Janku (CZE) 2.14 Benko (SVK) Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps Multis Coach Syracuse University Track Field _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Internship Notice- Emory Univ.
A non-list friend asked me to send this to the list. Please direct inquiries to the address below. Thanks, Ben Emory University invites applications for the position of Track and Field Intern. The position is a two year non-renewable appointment starting as soon as possible with the 2001-2002 academic year. The position requires that the candidate must have a minimum of a Bachelors degree, collegiate competitive experience and an appreciation of a highly academic NCAA Division III setting. Responsibilities will primarily consist of assisting with the coaching of the sprints, hurdles and jumping events, development and implementation of the training of these events, recruiting, as well as meet and equipment management. Candidates with multi-event background preferred. The salary is $11,500 with limited benefits. Limited opportunities for graduate study are available. Please send resume with references to: John Curtin, Head Track and Field Coach, Emory University, Woodruff PE Center, Atlanta, GA, 30322.
t-and-f: USATF Release: Team USA wins 4 gold, 2 bronze at WUGs
Contact:Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications http://www.usatf.org 317-261-0500 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Wednesday, August 29, 2001 Team USA wins four gold, two bronze at WUGs BEIJING - A gold rush swept through Team USA Wednesday at the World University Games, with American athletes winning four gold and two bronze medals in track and field. Thirteen final events were contested on the day. The performance of the day came from 3,000m steeplechaser Anthony Famiglietti. As he had talked about doing earlier in the week, Famiglietti took the lead virtually from the gun and ran in pursuit of a personal-best time and gold medal. The 2001 U.S. outdoor runner-up held off several challenges by Christian Belz of Switzerland, but with a lap to go, Jacub Czaja of Poland easily took the lead. On the backstretch, Famiglietti looked as though he would place no higher than second or third. But Czaja stumbled over the final water jump - the same fate he suffered at the European Under-23 championships - apparently giving Famiglietti a burst of speed that overcame the 2-meter Gap Czaja had put on him and vaulting Famiglietti to a win in 8:21.97. Famiglietti's time was just a shade off his personal best of 8:21.00 and the WUGs record of 8:21.26, held by American John Gregorek. Czaja was second in 8:23.00 and Belz was third in 8:24.46. Team USA's Steve Slattery was 10th in the 21-man field in 8:43.38. I was trying to break away with two or three laps to go, said the Mohawk-sporting Famiglietti. With a lap to go, the fact that he (Czaja) was on my shoulder and was so strong altered my confidence. With 300 to go, I was really battling more for second. It took the stimulus of him slipping over the last barrier to snap me back into it. Team USA's 400m runners completed an impressive three days of races, sweeping the men's and women's titles. Demetria Washington held off a challenge from the field in the homestretch to win the women's 400 in 51.22, with Romania's Silvia Ruicu second in 51.82 and American Mikele Barber third in 51.92. I'm happy, Washington said. I came here and PR'd (with a 51.05 in the first round), and I PR'd in Edmonton (at the World Championships earlier this month). I'm glad to be able to come here and compete. The Chinese people have been great. Barber also got out well but was nipped at the finish by Ruicu. I felt pretty relaxed, Barber said. The last 50 meters I was tying up. I'm happy with the bronze, but I would have preferred gold and silver (for the U.S.). Andrew Pierce won the men's 400 by an easy margin as well, finishing in 45.34. Clinton Hill of Australia was second in 45.63, and Team USA's Thomas Gerding was eighth in 47.09. Gerding found out earlier in the day that he had made the final as a result of a disqualification in Tuesday's semifinals. Pierce's run concluded a long and successful season that included winning a gold medal as part of the 4x400m relay at the World Championships in Edmonton. In Beijing, he withstood four qualifying rounds and a competitive season that began last winter. This is the first time I ever had to run four rounds, he said. But I felt really good today. I was relaxed and stayed nice and calm. Also true to form was Miguel Pate in the men's long jump. Coming off a fourth-place finish at the World Championships, Pate did not disappoint in Beijing. His first jump of 8.07m/26-5.75 gave him the gold medal over Stephan Louw of Namibia (8.04m/26-4.5). Kenta Bell finished sixth at 7.87m/25-10. I'm glad I got that first jump in, said Pate, who went from fifth at the NCAA Championships to second at the U.S. Championships to WUGs gold. The (swirling) wind was giving me a lot of trouble on my approach. I'm happy to get the gold. Tora Harris had a strong day on the high jump apron, clearing 2.26m/7-5, just 1 cm off his personal best. Aiexei Krqvtsov of Russia won with a jump of 2.28/7-5.75, beating Henadzi Maroz of Belarus in a jump-off. I came in pretty confident, said Harris, whose mother is Taiwanese and who speaks fluent Chinese. Preliminaries didn't go well at all - my steps were too close to the bar. Just a small adjustment (for the final) was all it took. Close calls marked the 1,500m races. Mary Jayne Harrelson, recovering from a meniscus injury in her right knee suffered last month, moved from seventh to fourth in the last lap of the women's race, running 4:11.68 to just miss a medal. Janelle Deatherage set her second personal best of the Games with her ninth-place time of 4:13.89. Sureyya Ayhan of Turkey won the gold in 4:06.91. In the men's 1,500m, Michael Stember led at the start, then moved from ninth to fourth in the last 200m in a kicker's race. Stember was timed in 3:44.91, a dead heat with fifth-place Sergio Gallardo of Spain. Stember's teammate, Jonathon Riley, was ninth in 3:46.37, and P.A. Esteso of Spain won in 3:43.98. In Wednesday's other finals: ·
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Stephen Cherono (date of birth 15Oct82) set a world junior record in the 3000 steeple of 7:58.66 at Van Damme meet last Friday. Digging a little deeper, I checked the All-Time list for Juniors that I had in my file, printed off for 4/01/2000 and saw this: #1 8:07.69 Paul Kosgei (KEN) '97 #2 8:15.31 Ray Yator (KEN) '99 #3 8:16.76 Kipkurui Misoi (KEN) '97 #4 8:18.71 Julius Chelule (KEN) '97 #5 8:19.12 Stephen Cherono (KEN) '99 Given Cherono's date of birth (15Oct82), that means the Age 16 World Record (if there is such a thing) is 8:19.12. Unless any of the 4 names ahead of him were also 16 when they ran faster, or some other SIXTEEN YEAR OLD has run faster in the last year and a half. MAN THOSE KENYANS ARE GOOD! It is no wonder Cherono could crack 8:00-flat when he was already at 8:19 at just 16 years old. Most North Americans couldn't steeple a 9:40 at 16 years old. Maybe Entine is right ... we have no chance, and should just give up before we fall further behind. We have no chance of ever getting a 16 year old to go 8:19 or even a 19 year old to go 7:58.
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Who's to say that these Kenyans are actually 16-19? There's a reason why Kenyans tend to drop in times when they are in their mid 20s...1. Are actually probably 30 and not 25, 2. After so many years of top level running, whether you start at 16 or 20 you tend to fizzle out. Check road race results, the winning Kenyans are listed as early/mid 20s and only a few stay competitive after 30 whereas many Americans/Europeans stay competitive after 30. Even in marathon races in which you can still be very competitive in your 30s you still many Kenyans listed early/mid 20s. Kenyans start running at an earlier age, reach a top level, then end their careers at an earlier age compared to American/European runners. Cherono is young and has run a very fast time. That doesn't mean that with age he will run much faster. Entine is RIGHT in that overall in a large group the N./ E. Africans will produce faster runners, but he is DEAD WRONG in stating that an American/European will NEVER win a major marathon or gold medal...that statement is just plain ignorant on his part and he only states it to reap the rewards of further book sales. There can and will always be the select few Americans/Europeans that can and will achieve the heights he says is impossible, but as a group the N. / E. Africans are better. Alan http://www.geocities.com/runningart2004 Maybe Entine is right ... we have no chance, and should just give up before we fall further behind. We have no chance of ever getting a 16 year old to go 8:19 or even a 19 year old to go 7:58. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Tom Craig's email address?
I am looking for Tom Craig's (Regina Jacob's coach) email address or web site. Please respond directly to me, not the list. Thanx Richard McCann Coach, Golden Valley Harriers http://www.goldenvalleyharriers.org PA USATF Club No. 38-0135 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (530) 756-0626
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Who's to say that these Kenyans are actually 16-19? Right. I know this. Supposedly Moses Kiptanui is 30 right now ... but he hasn't been near his best in years ... that is because he is NOT 30. Ditto for Kirui and Haile Gebrselassie. The same goes for most of the African who were World Junior Champions in the last decade. They are entered in the WJChamps because they need experience at the elite level ... whereas the athletes from the developed countries enter athletes because they need developmental experience for the elite level. Some people say that they reach their peak faster than those outside East-Africa ... that is crap. Before the domination of distance running by Africa occurred, there were many great Africans who ran for 10-12 years at a high level or at least well into their 30's (Mike Boit, kip Keino, Miruts Yifter, Kedir, Nyambui, Filbert Bayi, Wolde). I have been described as cynical to a fault ... my post on the WJR was supporting that perception ... it was pure sarcasm. NEVER, EVER GIVE UP on anything! -Original Message- From: alan tobin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren Who's to say that these Kenyans are actually 16-19? There's a reason why Kenyans tend to drop in times when they are in their mid 20s...1. Are actually probably 30 and not 25, 2. After so many years of top level running, whether you start at 16 or 20 you tend to fizzle out. Check road race results, the winning Kenyans are listed as early/mid 20s and only a few stay competitive after 30 whereas many Americans/Europeans stay competitive after 30. Even in marathon races in which you can still be very competitive in your 30s you still many Kenyans listed early/mid 20s. Kenyans start running at an earlier age, reach a top level, then end their careers at an earlier age compared to American/European runners. Cherono is young and has run a very fast time. That doesn't mean that with age he will run much faster. Entine is RIGHT in that overall in a large group the N./ E. Africans will produce faster runners, but he is DEAD WRONG in stating that an American/European will NEVER win a major marathon or gold medal...that statement is just plain ignorant on his part and he only states it to reap the rewards of further book sales. There can and will always be the select few Americans/Europeans that can and will achieve the heights he says is impossible, but as a group the N. / E. Africans are better. Alan http://www.geocities.com/runningart2004 Maybe Entine is right ... we have no chance, and should just give up before we fall further behind. We have no chance of ever getting a 16 year old to go 8:19 or even a 19 year old to go 7:58. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Nitra, Slovakia results
from iaaf.org Nitra, Slovakia 8/25 men 100 m: A-race (+2.8): 1. Barbour GBR 10.27, 2. Jensen (USA) 10.48, 3. Brinarsky (SVK) 10.59, 4. Vanderka (SVK) 10.69, 200 m (+1,8): 1. Barbour 20.78, 2. Jensen 20.99 400 m (hand timing): 1. Brew (USA) 44.9 - meeting record, 2. M. Campbell (USA) 45.3, 3. Hanzl (CZE) 47.4, 4. Al-Harbi (KUW) 47.7, B-race: 1. Beder (KUW) 47.2 1500 m: 1. Hanzel (SVK) 3:55.70 PV: 1. Zalud (CZE) 5.10 LJ: 1. Falzana (KUW) 7.62 SP: 1. Biber (HUN) 19.11, 2. Pankuch (SVK) 18.66, 3. Byalov (BLR) 18.53 DT: 1. Mayer (AUT) 57.19 JT: 1. Stasiuk (BLR) 75.19, 2. Belak (HUN) 70.54 HT: 1. Maska (CZE) 75.77, 2. Shako (BLR) 72.53, 3. Pars (HUN) 71.68 women 200 m (hand timing, +1,7): 1. Anderson (GBR) 23.2, 2. Hrdlickova (SVK) 23.6 800 m: 1. Klocova (SVK, 83) 2:05.61, 2. Golovchenko (UKR) 2:05.86, 3. Pompey (GUY) 2:08.63 HJ: 1. Farmakou (CYP) 1.83, 2. Medgyesova (SVK, 83) 1.80 PV: 1. Palasova and Boulova (both CZE) 3.80, 3. Slukova (SVK) 3.60 SP: 1. Ivanenko (BLR) 15.54 DT: 1. Goncharenko (BLR) 57.72, 2. Mocanu (ROM) 52.30 JT: 1. Georgieva (BUL) 55.03, 2. Kakhava (BLR) 53.65, 3. R. Kovacs(HUN) 50.36 HT: 1. Danisova (SVK, 83) 65.22, 2. Vrbenska (CZE) 60.82, 3. Matoshko (BLR) 59,72, 4. Diomina (BLR) 56.57, 5. Nemeth (HUN) 55.74 Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps Multis Coach Syracuse University Track Field _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
In a message dated Wed, 29 Aug 2001 2:44:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The same goes for most of the African who were World Junior Champions in the last decade. They are entered in the WJChamps because they need experience at the elite level ... whereas the athletes from the developed countries enter athletes because they need developmental experience for the elite level. This is all well and good, but makes me wonder how the Kenyans and Ethiops can dominate the Senior ranks without first having good Juniors. What magical process do they undergo after they leave their teen years that turns them into ass-kicking machines? Of course their BD machinery doesn't meet our standards, but to assume the only reason they're good as Juniors is because they aren't really is ludicrous to the max. Ask somebody who has actually been into Nandi territory and ask them what they've seen in terms of talented little kids scooting around the countryside. We're talkin a different breed of cat here, as Dennis Miller would say. gh
Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Maybe Entine is right ... we have no chance, and should just give up before we fall further behind. We have no chance of ever getting a 16 year old to go 8:19 or even a 19 year old to go 7:58. Yep, and no chance of ever getting someone to run 3:53, either. Never say never, just figure out what it's going to take and run like hell. As fans we can speculate on the difficulties, but I sure hope the athletes don't. - Ed Parrot
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
This is all well and good, but makes me wonder how the Kenyans and Ethiops can dominate the Senior ranks without first having good Juniors. What magical process do they undergo after they leave their teen years that turns them into ass-kicking machines? OF COURSE they have good juniors (as in actual guys/girls who have lived less than 20 years), and they are likely better than the rest of the world's juniors, just like they are in senior competition. They have the best 19, 24, and 28 year old runners in the world. They ARE a different breed of cat. It's just that the ones you see winning the junior championships in XC and track are not actually 19. Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up ... there won't be any point in going on with it.
t-and-f: longevity
Alan Tobin wrote: Who's to say that these Kenyans are actually 16-19? There's a reason why Kenyans tend to drop in times when they are in their mid 20s...1. Are actually probably 30 and not 25, 2. After so many years of top level running, whether you start at 16 or 20 you tend to fizzle out. Check road race results, the winning Kenyans are listed as early/mid 20s and only a few stay competitive after 30 whereas many Americans/Europeans stay competitive after 30. i decided to test this theory against the World Rankings. Yo, Alan, time to check facts before you spout off! Years in World Rankings (including this year's probability), all distance events, with *=decrepit Africans who can't run past 30: 9 Zatopek 9 Geb* 9 Keino* 8 Viren 7 Clarke If there's a reason that Euros and Americans hang on much longer (which the run-of-the-mill internationalists do) it's becuase they haven't made enough to retire. The Kenyans do: one becuase they win significant prize money and two becuase what seems like a little money here is buy-a-ranch-and-retire kind of cash over there. gh
Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
Brian wrote: MAN THOSE KENYANS ARE GOOD! It is no wonder Cherono could crack 8:00-flat when he was already at 8:19 at just 16 years old. Most North Americans couldn't steeple a 9:40 at 16 years old. Maybe Entine is right ... we have no chance, and should just give up before we fall further behind. We have no chance of ever getting a 16 year old to go 8:19 or even a 19 year old to go 7:58. But how long do they last in the sport .. They seem to peak very early .. At the top for a brief moment .. And then the next in line takes their place .. My point is this .. We may not get any 16 year olds to go 8:19 .. Nor 19 year olds to go 7:58 .. But that doesn't mean we give up nor that the fight has been lost .. Our goal it would seem would be to get 25 year olds to 8:10 and then 28/29 year olds to 7:58 .. Not that would be more plausible .. And make us competitive .. Everyone has to work to their strengths .. With the Kenyans it seems to be brilliance at an early age .. We may have to stay in the sport longer in order to achieve the same level of success .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Kenyans/Juniors/Standards, etc
From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just that the ones you see winning the junior championships in XC and track are not actually 19. Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up ... there won't be any point in going on with it. Of course they can. No one think anything of it when a US kid runs 10.30 or 11.30 or 22.80. It all depends on the events and what your view of the world is. Our mindset about distance running in the US is all wrong. we get excited and train our athletes for the wrong things -- we EXPECT our sprinters and hurdles to be at or near the very top. It's news when they're not. In the US it's news when a distance runner does well. when we raise our expectations and our standards across the board things will start to change. --Kebba _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
I believe I have mentioned this quote before. It is directly from John Korir (if you don't know who he is... do a search) We have our real age and then the age we tell the white man That and if you ask him what his age is on one day he responds with: Today I feel very good. Today I am 19 If you ask him the next day he may say something like this: My body is getting old, today I am 35 These were not made up. Mike From: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mcewen, Brian T [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:53:01 -0400 This is all well and good, but makes me wonder how the Kenyans and Ethiops can dominate the Senior ranks without first having good Juniors. What magical process do they undergo after they leave their teen years that turns them into ass-kicking machines? OF COURSE they have good juniors (as in actual guys/girls who have lived less than 20 years), and they are likely better than the rest of the world's juniors, just like they are in senior competition. They have the best 19, 24, and 28 year old runners in the world. They ARE a different breed of cat. It's just that the ones you see winning the junior championships in XC and track are not actually 19. Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up ... there won't be any point in going on with it. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
From: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] year olds to go 7:58 .. But that doesn't mean we give up nor that the fight has been lost .. Our goal it would seem would be to get 25 year olds to 8:10 and then 28/29 year olds to 7:58 .. Not that would be more plausible .. And make us competitive .. I understand what you mean, but to me our goal should be to get athletes to 7:58 or faster at any age. who cares if they're 19, 21, 23, or 25? Again, no one balks when 20-23 yr olds run 44-low, 20.1-20.2, 10.10 or faster. the focus should be on getting our athletes to finals of MAJOR meets with a chance to medal. Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps Multis Coach Syracuse University Track Field _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
I agree. I had a teammate that loved to say how Jim Ryan had peaked by his early 20s and ndver got any better, so he wasn't that great. My retort was who cares when his peak was? The guy was a WR holder and the best of his time. If Alan Webb peaks in 2008, breaks an AR along the way and medals at the Olympics and WCs, are we going to look back at his career as a failure because he was on his way down at age 25 or 26? No! Or at least I won't. M From: Kebba Tolbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Kebba Tolbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:11:02 -0400 From: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] year olds to go 7:58 .. But that doesn't mean we give up nor that the fight has been lost .. Our goal it would seem would be to get 25 year olds to 8:10 and then 28/29 year olds to 7:58 .. Not that would be more plausible .. And make us competitive .. I understand what you mean, but to me our goal should be to get athletes to 7:58 or faster at any age. who cares if they're 19, 21, 23, or 25? Again, no one balks when 20-23 yr olds run 44-low, 20.1-20.2, 10.10 or faster. the focus should be on getting our athletes to finals of MAJOR meets with a chance to medal. Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Men's and Women's Jumps Multis Coach Syracuse University Track Field _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: believe it or not
Brian McEwen writes: Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up No, i don't believe it. But then, I don't believe anybody of any age can run 12:39 or 26:22 either! How do you think the rest of the world feels about Obea Moore's 45.14 at age 16? I don't believe that one either! gh
Re: t-and-f: Cherono almost catches Lindgren
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Kebba Tolbert wrote: I understand what you mean, but to me our goal should be to get athletes to 7:58 or faster at any age. who cares if they're 19, 21, 23, or 25? Again, no one balks when 20-23 yr olds run 44-low, 20.1-20.2, 10.10 or faster. the focus should be on getting our athletes to finals of MAJOR meets with a chance to medal. To underscore Kebba's point, wasn't Steve Lewis 19 when he won Olympic Gold in the 400m? If he was really 30, UCLA sure sneaked one past the NCAA. Paul
RE: t-and-f: believe it or not
GH, I was there when Obea ran it! I also followed his career from Age Group TF through his high school years. He ran and my nephew competed in a lot of the same meets, except that my nephew is a few years older than Obea. I also know Obea's mother very well. We sat and talked at many of Obea's meets. She is a high school principal. Obea was an exceptional athlete with very competitive juices that allowed him to mature and excel beyond his years. He was also a very hard worker. He could do workouts that many athletes could not do. His range ran from 100 Meters through 800 Meters. I'm sure he could have run a pretty quick mile if he so desired. Obea's problem was that he got mixed up with the wrong crowd, and they messed up his mind. He also got hurt for the first time and did not know how to deal with a serious injury. He tried to come back too soon and reinjured himself. His confidence has been destroyed. It is really too bad because he probably would have broken the WR in the 400 had he continued to train and develop in college as he had in AG and HS. Gerald -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: believe it or not Brian McEwen writes: Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up No, i don't believe it. But then, I don't believe anybody of any age can run 12:39 or 26:22 either! How do you think the rest of the world feels about Obea Moore's 45.14 at age 16? I don't believe that one either! gh
t-and-f: Kenyan Juniors
Garry wrote: If there's a reason that Euros and Americans hang on much longer (which the run-of-the-mill internationalists do) it's becuase they haven't made enough to retire. The Kenyans do: one becuase they win significant prize money and two becuase what seems like a little money here is buy-a-ranch-and-retire kind of cash over there. That's it in a nutshell. Running is a job, at which, Kenyan youngsters are told, you are predisposed to excell. Train hard and within a year or two you'll have enough to buy the farm, cows etc.. Once they've cashed in, let's say mid-20's, there's no point in going on. No 'love of the sport' or anything like that. While not on the same level, the U.S. road-racing Kenyans DO continue on into their early and mid-thirties. Send the money back home to the wife and kids, visit twice a year and then it's back to 'the great provider' to punch the road-race clock. /Drew
t-and-f: Pre graduate?
Hey help me out here. Last week, or maybe 2 weeks ago now, when someone wrote about the education of Pre I was wondering, did Steve Prefontaine graduate with a degree from Oregon? Does anyone know in what subject? Thanks, Dave Ponas I'm sure that someone will have more reliable information than this but I talked to a sprinter from my hometown named Robert Martin who was a year behind Pre at Oregon and he is pretty sure that he graduated. Regards, Martin
t-and-f: Haile Gebrselassie makes 1/2 marathon debug
Has anyone else heard about this? If it's true, that seems like a slow time for the Ethiopian championships, unless it was a strategic race or there was poor terrain. If true, it'll be interesting to see what he can do at the World 1/2 marathon championships. Here's the link: http://www.letsrun.com/hghalf.html Jeff Hanks Gebrselassie Makes Half-Marathon Debut ©LetsRun.com August 29, 2001 -Update Our Ethiopian sources have given us more confirmation of the story below that Haile Gebrselassie ran a half-marathon in Ethiopia last weekend which was a qualifier for the World Half-Marthon Championships. Additionally they have provided us with the times of the top 3 runners: 1st. Gebrselassie: 1:04:47, 2nd Tesfaye Jifar 1:04:53, 3rd. Tesfaye Tola 1:04:55 August 28, 2001 LetsRun.com has heard through the grapevine (totally credible source who is tight with a woman who is great friends with all of the top Ethiopian runners) that Haile Gebrselassie made his half-marathon debut this past weekend, winning the Ethiopian championships. The source did not know his time but claimed Gebrselassie won and was followed by Tesfaye Jifar and then Tesfaye Tola in third. This source also claims Geb is planning on running the world-half in England in October. We've looked everywhere for confirmation of this rumor but can't find it. So if it ends up being true, remember you heard it here first.
Re: t-and-f: Haile Gebrselassie makes 1/2 marathon debug
In a message dated Wed, 29 Aug 2001 5:44:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hanks, Jeffrey S [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone else heard about this? If it's true, that seems like a slow time for the Ethiopian championships, unless it was a strategic race or there was poor terrain. If it was in Addis Adaba (altitude 7900ft) it becomes a truly AWESOME time. gh
Re: t-and-f: believe it or not
gh wrote: Brian McEwen writes: Tell me that you believe a 16 year old can run 8:19 or 27:43 (as the records would have you believe) and I will shut up. No, i don't believe it. But then, I don't believe anybody of any age can run 12:39 or 26:22 either! How do you think the rest of the world feels about Obea Moore's 45.14 at age 16? I don't believe that one either! gh I'll take that a step farther - anyone who saw Obea Moore at the Olympic Trials in Atlanta would certainly not have believed he was 16, and I don't just mean his performance. He looked far more physically mature than I could ever hope to, no matter how many gray hairs I get. So comments about how old some East Africans look are not necessarily very relevant either. Look at what Brendan Christian did in 2000 as a high school sophomore. That would have put him in the Olympics from most countries, and been knocking on the door of the finals. That - somewhere just above or below 10th place - is the same kind of finish someone with a 8:19 or a 27:43 PR could expect at the world level if they ran well. Are the world junior records legit? Maybe not. Is there any chance the true WJR is not held by a Kenyan or Ethiopian? Probably not. Given how big the gap is between them and the best from real birth certificate countries, and how dominant they are in competitions where it doesn't matter how old they are, I would expect their juniors to be a lot better than everyone else's. david honea
t-and-f: Heart Monitors
I am looking for recommendations on heart monitors. Specifically I am interested in buying a basic bare bones one at low cost. Could someone recommend a specific model and tell me the best place to buy them and the approximate cost? Thanks. Please respond privately. John Molvar __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com
t-and-f: USATF News Notes: August 29, 2001
Contact:Tom Surber Media Information Manager USA Track Field (317) 261-0500 x317 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.usatf.org USATF News Notes Volume 2, Number 77 August 29, 2001 Greene out of Goodwill Games Olympic gold medalist, three-time world champion and world 100m record holder Maurice Greene will not compete in the track and field competition at the 2001 Goodwill Games in Brisbane, Australia. Greene has yet to recover from an injury to his left quadriceps sustained in winning the 100m world title for the third time in a row earlier this month in Edmonton, Canada. When I'm on the track, I don't give excuses, he said. I always give 100 percent, and I don't feel like I'll be able to do that at the Goodwill Games. Greene's agent Emanuel Hudson added, Maurice is not going to let his ego dictate when he's 100 percent healthy and in shape to compete. His doctor did not give him a thumbs up, and we're taking his advice seriously. Maurice is very disappointed in not being able to defend his title, but he will be there for the festivities. Greene won the 100m at the 1998 Goodwill Games in New York with a time of 9.96 seconds. The track and field competition at the 2001 Goodwill Games in Brisbane will take place September 4-7. Hanna wins silver at World 100K Rich Hanna stunned the ultrarunning world on Sunday by winning the silver medal at the 100 Kilometer World Championships in Cleder, France. Hanna ran the challenging course in 6 hours, 43 minutes, 9 seconds, finishing second behind Japan's Yasufumi Mikami, who completed the circuit in 6:33:28. Hanna, 37, from Sacramento, Calif., was trailed by fellow American Howard Nippert of Blacksburg, Va., who finished 13th in 7:01:36. Team USA fell out of medal contention when highly touted Americans Dave Dunham and Tom Johnson dropped out of the race before the halfway point. Hanna made a strong move in the second half of the race, climbing from tenth place to second. Near the end of the race, Hanna had a slim lead over defending world champ Pascal Fetizon of France, but nearly lost his position when he collapsed about ten yards from the finish. However, he was able to drag himself across the finish line ahead of Fetizon, who finished a little more than a half second behind in 6:44:48. Hanna's performance comes after a five-year hiatus brought on by a series of injuries. In the meantime, he co-founded Marathon Publishers, Inc., where he now serves as the executive vice-president. He co-authored and published The Ultimate Guide to Marathons, one of the most popular books on the sport. Hanna began a comeback in the spring of 2000, which included a second-place finish at the USA National 100K Championships last March in Pittsburgh. Other American men's finishers were 2001 U.S. 100K champ Jim Garcia (64th-7:40:24) and Bob Sweeney (79th-7:48:05). Team USA's women's squad was led by Daniele Cherniak of Cohoes, N.Y., who finished 13th in 8:18:18. Jennifer Devine-Pfeiffer of Sacramento was 17th in 8:25:26 and Nikki Kimball of Elizabethtown, N.Y. was 21st in 8:32:38. Despite coming into the event injured, 2001 U.S. 100K champion Anne Riddle of Asheville, N.C. finished 28th in 8:45:59. Southern Illinois hires Price-Smith Nathan Southern Illinois University has hired four-time Olympian and SIU alum Connie Price-Smith as its women's head track coach. The fifth-place finisher in the shot put at the 1996 Olympic Games, Price-Smith is a 12-time U.S. outdoor champ and the 1995 World Indoor Championships silver medalist. A six-time U.S. discus champ, Price-Smith, 39, participated in track and basketball prior to her graduation from Southern Illinois in 1985. SIU also hired 2000 U.S. Olympic Trials heptathlon champion DeDee Nathan, who will work with Price-Smith as an assistant coach. The runner-up at the 1998 Goodwill Games to Jackie Joyner-Kersee, Nathan, 33, finished ninth at the 2000 Olympic Games with 6,150 points. Price-Smith and Nathan's coaching careers will begin after they compete at the Goodwill Games next week in Brisbane. Jones Torrence on display in D.C. Five-time Olympic medalist Marion Jones and 1992 Olympic 200m gold medalist Gwen Torrence are featured in a photographic exhibition currently on display at the Arts and Industries Building of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. The photos, featuring Olympic gymnast Mary Lou Retton among others, are placed into five sections-Get Ready, Start, Action, Finish and Aftermath. The exhibit closes on September 5. # # #
RE: t-and-f: believe it or not
Obviously some, if not many, of the African Juniors of the past 15 years have not been juniors. Moses Kiptanui was definitely not 19 back in '91. There was NO WAY that Addis Abebe was 19 back in '89. Dude had a receding hairline (Okay, so did the Mastalir's in high school, but that's different). But I would not hesititate to believe that Ismael Kirui was 18 in '93 when he won the World Champs 5K for the first time. That guy really looked like a true 18-year-old. Sure, that has him running 28:30 or so at age 16, but if Chapa could run that in high school, Kirui could do it at 16. sideshow
RE: t-and-f: believe it or not
You guys also have to remember that the majority of American's don't start running until their freshman year of high school. I was 15 in October of my freshman year... meaning I had run for a year by the time I was 16. When, lets say a Kenyan runs 13:low at, say 19, he may have been running for 10 years already. That's like one of our guys running 13:low at 25. There are so many factors that go into this. 75% are probably not really juniors. Of the 25% that are left, probably 95% have the equivalent running experience of a 25 year old American. On top of all this, don't forget that running at such a young age while you are still growing may affect the body in a more beneficial way than starting at 14 or 15. M From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: believe it or not Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:01:53 EDT Obviously some, if not many, of the African Juniors of the past 15 years have not been juniors. Moses Kiptanui was definitely not 19 back in '91. There was NO WAY that Addis Abebe was 19 back in '89. Dude had a receding hairline (Okay, so did the Mastalir's in high school, but that's different). But I would not hesititate to believe that Ismael Kirui was 18 in '93 when he won the World Champs 5K for the first time. That guy really looked like a true 18-year-old. Sure, that has him running 28:30 or so at age 16, but if Chapa could run that in high school, Kirui could do it at 16. sideshow _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
t-and-f: Believe it or not
Something that struck me with awe when I first noticed it in one of Quercetani's historical volumes is that Bill Miller, later to place first in the 1932 Olympics, vaulted 13-2 5/8 (4.02) at age 15 (15!) (born in November 1912, meet in April 1928), 13th in the world for that year. Bill Allen
Re: t-and-f: Kenyans/Juniors/Standards, etc
Kebba wrote: Of course they can. No one think anything of it when a US kid runs 10.30 or 11.30 or 22.80. It all depends on the events and what your view of the world is. Our mindset about distance running in the US is all wrong. we get excited and train our athletes for the wrong things -- we EXPECT our sprinters and hurdles to be at or near the very top. It's news when they're not. In the US it's news when a distance runner does well. when we raise our expectations and our standards across the board things will start to change. I agree with you regarding the mindset and it being wrong .. But can someone tell me why the mindset is there ?? This is the country that produced Juniors like Lindgren and Prefontaine, Ryun and Liquori .. Its not like we haven't seen it done here .. And lets not review the running boom .. Or parental attitudes .. Lackadaisicalness of youth .. Or any of those things .. When did the people in the SPORT stop believing ??? The one's doing the coaching and training and nurturing of the athletes .. Why suddenly Ritzenheim and Webb and Hall ?? These kids believe they can compete .. And obviously so do their coaches .. Our Juniors can compete at something above 800 meters .. We expect high schoolers to run 46.00 or better .. 1:48.00, 20.75 .. But go ga ga if they run 4:10 .. Kind of like the Dark Ages when we thought women shouldn't compete at all or couldn't run anything longer than 800 meters .. My what a difference in mindset can do !! Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Haile Gebrselassie makes 1/2 marathon debug
In a message dated 8/29/01 5:56:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If it was in Addis Adaba (altitude 7900ft) it becomes a truly AWESOME time. Wait - didn't we just conclude that altitude's effect on distance times is only pyschological? ;-) (Geb must have a hell of a psyche). Jim Gerweck Running Times
