t-and-f: url that has exact regional qualifying proposal

2002-05-09 Thread Jack Pfeifer

Actually, I believe a great deal of it has been determined:

The four regional meets would be held the final weekend of May. In 
2003 there are five weekends in May, so it would be the latest 
possible dates, May 30-31. The NCAA would be 2 weeks later, or in 
2003 June 11-14.
In future years, May's schedule would become compressed, pushing 
conference meets that have traditionally been the third weekend of 
May onto the second weekend. (The main impact here is likely to come 
in the East, where many schools have traditionally had two 
conference meets -- their own, plus the IC4A/ECAC. That meet is now 
under pressure to move to a new place on the calendar.)
The first 5 finishers in each region would qualify automatically for 
the NCAA meet. In addition, some additional number -- 6 to 8 -- would 
also be advanced to the national meet. These people would be 
selected, based upon their performance during the season. They would 
represent exemptions, because of extenuating circumstances such as 
illness, a false start, a family illness that week. It's not clear 
what would qualify as a legitimate excuse, and how it would be 
authenticated. It's not clear how the honest-effort rule would work. 
For example, what happens if a high-ranking athlete pulls up during a 
race and doesn't finish? I believe, the way the rules are currently 
written, that person would probably be advanced.
Athletes are required to participate in the Regionals. It's not clear 
if simply participation is necessary. That is, can a good sprinter 
run just a heat of the 100 and then sit out the rest of the meet? 
(similar to Maurice Greene's approach to recent Nationals)
If an athlete who is high on the year's performance list is not 
having a good day, it will probably in their interest not to complete 
their competition at Regionals. For example, if you have two fouls in 
the LJ, it would be better to pass the third mark, or foul badly, and 
come up limping. In the HJ, again, if you have 2 misses at a low 
height, it would be wise to pass and complain of an upset stomach.
On the other hand, if the list leader has a bad day and finishes 7th 
in an event, will that person be passed on to the nationals anyway? 
How will these situations be handled?
Presumably there would still be a declaration process as well, so 
this could become very confusing a week after the regional meets. For 
example, a school could have qualifiers in a number of distance 
events, doubled and tripled, and then select the one event they 
prefer a week later. This could then knock out people who had been 
top-5 finishers. How are those slots filled? By people who finished 
6th, 7th, 8th? What about the list of extra qualifiers? How are they 
prioritized in such a system?
Qualification to regionals: All conference champions (which 
conferences?) plus all athletes who meet performances equal to the 
100th-best marks from the previous college season. It's not clear if 
these lists will include wind-aided or altitude-assisted marks, or 
indoor marks. I believe such lists have already been produced for the 
2001 season, to give chances a look at how this will work next season.
It is likely that some teams will adjust their entries for conference 
meets based in part on who has already qualified for Regionals from 
their teams. If one of your runners is already on the Q list in the 
800, then why run her in that event? If she can win the conference 
1,500, regardless of her time, she can gain an additional qualifying 
position. It also might help a teammate get a shot in the 800.
Distances -- It seems likely that all of the Regional 1500s, 5ks and 
steeples will be slow, tactical affairs, because place -- and 
preserving your best for 2 weeks later -- is primary. The exception 
might be someone who feels they're second-tier. The rest of the field 
might let him go anyway, preferring to angle for spots 2 through 5.
Relays -- How will they work? If a good team has one runner ill, can 
the squad sit out the Regional and get passed in? Again, they would 
be better off doing that than running and finishing 7th, correct? If 
a good team drops the baton in the 4x1, can that team be passed in as 
one of the at-large teams?
JP



Geoff Thurner asks:

although i doubt if anything's exactly definite, is there a url address for
a description of the d1 regional qualifying plan that's supposedly been
ratified

i want to get all the exact, official details - not rumors

if you mean details of how the meet is going to be run, the precise 
geographical splits, etc., etc., the answer as TFN understands it 
is no, simply becuase all this is scheduled to be worked out when 
the coaches meet in Baton Rouge for nationals. For now, all that has 
been approved is the concept, and the greater number of athletes for 
nationals.

gh




Re: t-and-f: url that has exact regional qualifying proposal

2002-05-09 Thread John Sun


--- Jack Pfeifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Actually, I believe a great deal of it has been
 determined:
 
 The four regional meets would be held the final
 weekend of May. In 
 2003 there are five weekends in May, so it would be
 the latest 
 possible dates, May 30-31. The NCAA would be 2 weeks
 later, or in 
 2003 June 11-14.
 In future years, May's schedule would become
 compressed, pushing 
 conference meets that have traditionally been the
 third weekend of 
 May onto the second weekend. (The main impact here
 is likely to come 
 in the East, where many schools have traditionally
 had two 
 conference meets -- their own, plus the IC4A/ECAC.
 That meet is now 
 under pressure to move to a new place on the
 calendar.)

Wouldn't it make sense to incorporate the IC4A/ECAC
meet into the new East Regional? Don't they do this
already in XC with the district meet or am I mistaken?

John

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Re: t-and-f: url that has exact regional qualifying proposal

2002-05-09 Thread WMurphy25


In a message dated 5/9/02 4:10:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Don't they do this
already in XC with the district meet or am I mistaken? 

That used to be the case, but hasn't been for a few years.

Walt Murphy



Re: t-and-f: url that has exact regional qualifying proposal

2002-05-09 Thread GHTFNedit

In a message dated Thu, 9 May 2002  1:21:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jack Pfeifer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


The first 5 finishers in each region would qualify automatically for 
the NCAA meet. In addition, some additional number -- 6 to 8 -- would 
also be advanced to the national meet. These people would be 
selected, based upon their performance during the season. They would 
represent exemptions, because of extenuating circumstances such as 
illness, a false start, a family illness that week. It's not clear 
what would qualify as a legitimate excuse, and how it would be 
authenticated. It's not clear how the honest-effort rule would work.

Not sure if you meant it this way, but the way this is written, you make it sound as 
if only hard luck cases get in in addition to the 5 Regional people. I know for a 
fact that Conference winners (individual and relay) are included in the at large 
group. 

What I don't know for a fact, but have been led to believe all along, is that the 
extra people are to come from the yearly performers list, thus ensuring that nobody 
who is truly deserving gets left out. There is one wrinkle to that, however--the 
yearly list as of before the Regionals or after? Imagine being the fastest 100 guy in 
the country, but you false-started out of Conference, so you don't have an exemption. 
Your hammie is hurting, so at Regionals you decide to take it easy and don't finish in 
the top 5. If the list is as of before Regionals you're OK. If it's as of after 
Regionals and there was a Regional at Colorado Springs and 10 guys broke 10-flat, 
you're screwed! Obvioiusly, this needs clarification.

But despite this problem, and other nagging honest effort questions that Jack raised 
in his post, I'm absolutely convinced this is the way to go. Akin to what Winston 
Churchill once said about democracy: It's a terrible form of government, but it's 
better than all the rest (or something like that). Regionals is fraught w/ problems, 
but it's infinitely better than the ludicrous chasing of P's and A's we've been 
saddled with the last decade.

gh



t-and-f: a major mis-statement!

2002-05-09 Thread GHTFNedit

mea culpa!

don't know what I was thinking, but in talking of the Regionals I said Conference 
winners automatically went to Nationals under the new scheme. Actually, the C winners 
automatically go to Regionals. Obviously, there are more C winners than there are 
spots in the wild-card setup for Nationals.

gh