re: t-and-f: Now Blood
Ed Having been at the NYS Meet (and filing the Dyestat report), this situation is not the fault of the officiating. At some point the athletes & coaches need to wake the F up. The Sunken Meadow course was known to be the State Meet for over a year. Everyone had a chance to run it during the season. It is the same course that has been run for at least 2 decades, but more likely 4. The course was well marshalled and marked. There was a rumor that there was an incident of sabotage of course marking, but it is just that, a rumor. The Section's Coaches Association produced a video of the course that was online on the local site and Armorytrack.com for over a month. The program had a turn-by-turn description of the course and there are maps posted at the Park. Nicole Blood is the one who should have known the course and her coach should have made sure of it. The farce is that the pre-race favorite did not know the course cold. There is no excuse for it at all, but it is so much easier to blame the officials, than to suck it up, learn something and move on. MJR
Re: t-and-f: Now Blood
We have a lister here whose son was one the DQs. I think they finally got over the Great American fiasco after the son won a Texas state title yesterday. Way to go (the other) Sully! P.S. Move back to Illinois. Ed Grant wrote: > Netters: > > Now Nicole Blood of Saratoga has joined NJ's Lindsay Van Alastine > and the top five or so runners in the Great American boys' race as a victim > of mid-direstion (or lack of direction) in a major CC race this season. And > heaven knows how many others/. > > I do not know the exact circumstances of this latest farce, but I > cannot but believe that it is directly caused by the insane attention to > non-essentials by officials and those who govern them, instead of attention > to the main job of any track official or meet director: to do everything > possible to see that every boy and girl receives a fair chance to compete. > > It is painfully obvious by now that the attitude of those who direct > officials in this country is consumed by such things as: are the boys or > girls wearing prohibited jewely; are all memers of the team wearing exactly > the same uniform (and God forbid that they should wear unmatching > undershirts, are they painting tattoos somewhere on their body, do they > perhaps have jewelry concealed (this is now penalized not only by > disqualification from the event itself, but by a two-meet suspension---equal > to the punishment given a football player for slugging another player.) > > It is the job of every meet director to see that courses are > properly marshalled, by people who know where to direct runners at crucial > points. In NJ last year, a girl lost a county title because the "controlling > authority" in that county refused 1) to hire policemen so that the course > woulc match the one she had run on three days earlier at the state > sectionals and 2) to hire an official who would be placed at the point of > divergence in the two courses. > > Just when is this kind of nonsense going to stop? Do we have to have > the entire rulebook thrown in the ashcan (where it properly belongs) and get > back to the days when we thought of the kids first, not rules which > sometimes change with every new whim of the committee in charge. > > Ed Grant
t-and-f: Addendum 1
Netters: Bob Kiessling forwards to me the word that the frosh I mentioned last night as not finishing her race, Carolyn Calhoun of Ewing, was actually 3rd in the race and fell victim to the "no earrings" rule (which makes sense only is the rings are the kind with big loops, not the ones I usually see, so small, it is easy for the wearer to forget she has them on. No report on how fast she ran but it could have been 19:35, which was the time assigned to the girl moved up to 3rd' if not, it was even faster than that. Ed Grant
t-and-f: Addendum
Netters: Thanks to Walt Murphy, I now know something of the circumstances of the Nicole Blood disaster. An arrow instead of an official? Well, it's a lot cheaper I suppose. Can't expect much of a state that once puit its late November meet of champs in the north country and wound up with hundreds of athletes getting frostbite, to the extent that the last event of the day had to be cancelled (by local police authorities who said they couldn't handle any more cases) On another note, while going into John Dye's site to check on the South Carolina meet 9to see how my granddaughter's school did) I noticed that the meet there is "integrated" not like neighbor North Carolina which refuses to allow Cardinal Gibbons to run. The irony is that the cleric for which the South Carolina school is named, Bishop England, was the major figure in southern Roman Catholicism in this country prior to Gibbons (who was a Marylander). Ed Grant
t-and-f: Now Blood
Netters: Now Nicole Blood of Saratoga has joined NJ's Lindsay Van Alastine and the top five or so runners in the Great American boys' race as a victim of mid-direstion (or lack of direction) in a major CC race this season. And heaven knows how many others/. I do not know the exact circumstances of this latest farce, but I cannot but believe that it is directly caused by the insane attention to non-essentials by officials and those who govern them, instead of attention to the main job of any track official or meet director: to do everything possible to see that every boy and girl receives a fair chance to compete. It is painfully obvious by now that the attitude of those who direct officials in this country is consumed by such things as: are the boys or girls wearing prohibited jewely; are all memers of the team wearing exactly the same uniform (and God forbid that they should wear unmatching undershirts, are they painting tattoos somewhere on their body, do they perhaps have jewelry concealed (this is now penalized not only by disqualification from the event itself, but by a two-meet suspension---equal to the punishment given a football player for slugging another player.) It is the job of every meet director to see that courses are properly marshalled, by people who know where to direct runners at crucial points. In NJ last year, a girl lost a county title because the "controlling authority" in that county refused 1) to hire policemen so that the course woulc match the one she had run on three days earlier at the state sectionals and 2) to hire an official who would be placed at the point of divergence in the two courses. Just when is this kind of nonsense going to stop? Do we have to have the entire rulebook thrown in the ashcan (where it properly belongs) and get back to the days when we thought of the kids first, not rules which sometimes change with every new whim of the committee in charge. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
I too think there was a prep sub 1:50 in him. He is a talent. ND has him on the track roster on the web site, but his name is not highlighted. His football page bio gave all his track past. Dave Cameron wrote: > I saw Setta in H.S.; firmly convinced he could have broken 1:50 for > 800 if he concentrated on running. Combining this with his jumping > ability... > > Anyway... is Setta still involved in track? It would be quite a > shame if he isn't and only plays football. > > --- Mike Prizy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick Setta, 5-11/177, Notre Dame kicker might still make for a good > > candidate for your running > > pentathlon. I always thought Setta could have potentially been a > > great decathlete, but I'm not sure > > if he ever did the PV. But the way he has been kicking this year, > > he might as well try it. > > > > Just read through his stats and look at some of the people he ran > > against in high school. > > > > In high school, he would run XC meets Saturday morning and would > > then be driven to where his school > > was playing that day's football game. What could he have done if he > > concentrated on running? > > > > http://und.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/setta_nicholas00.html > > > > (Part of his football bio at ND) > > > > ...hit the crossbar on 72-yard field goal attempt . . . kicked > > Illinois state record 59-yard field > > goal as sophomore in '96 vs. Bloom . . . averaged 46.7 yards per > > punt as junior, with 27 of 64 > > kickoffs going for touchbacks . . . > > > > ...won four letters in both cross country and track and field . . . > > finished sixth in Illinois state > > track and field meet in high jump as junior and also ranked as top > > hurdler . . . four-time team > > captain and MVP in both cross country and track . . . had bests of > > 1:53.4 (???) in 800 meters, 3:59 > > in 1500 meters, and 6-10 in high jump . . . finished 11th in > > Illinois state cross country meet in > > '98, fifth in '97 and helped Lockport to Illinois state cross > > country crowns in '96 and '97 . . .. . > > > > > > > > http://www.ihsa.org/activity/trb/1998-99/2result2.htm#Event12 > > > > 800-Meter Run - Ill. H.S. state final 1999 > > > > Final Heat > > > > 1 Nicholas Setta (Sr.), Lockport (Twp.) 1:52.24 > > 2 Jon Dreher (Sr.), Winnetka (New Trier) 1:52.65 > > 3 Rob Hulick (Jr.), Hinsdale (Central) 1:53.01 > > 4 Eric Duda (Sr.), Carol Stream (Glenbard North) 1:53.73 > > 5 Mike Lewis (Jr.), Cahokia 1:53.78 > > > > > > Ill. H.S. XC State meet 1997 (3M) > > > > 1. Lockport (Twp.) - Setta's team > >12 14 19 26 63 (125)(135) = 134 > > 2. Elmhurst (York) - Sage's team > > 2 23 28 32 50 (66)(183) = 135 > > 3. Wheeling - Torres brothers' team > > 16 31 57 70 (142)(149) = 165 > > > > (Record is Craig Virgin - 13:50) > > 11 Jorge Torres Jr Wheeling > > 14:15 > > 22 Donald SageSo Elmhurst (York) > > 14:22 > > 3 Adam Wallace Sr Deerfield > > 14:30 > > 4 Mark Pilja Sr Naperville (North) > > 14:32 > > 53 Juan OrtegaJr Berwyn-Cicero (Morton) > > 14:34 > > 64 Jonathan Berning Sr Chicago (Marist) > > 14:35 > > 75 Nathan Purcell Jr Salem > > 14:36 > > 86 Ed Torres Jr Wheeling > > 14:39 > > 97 Arturo Cabarl Sr Bensenville (Fenton) > > 14:43 > > 108 Onecimo GuerecaSr Chicago (Kennedy) > > 14:49 > > 11 Robert Breit Sr Skokie (Niles North) > > 14:49 > > 129 Jason Van Swol Sr New Lenox (Lincoln-Way) > > 14:50 > > 13 10 Chris Siemers Jr Bensenville (Fenton) > > 14:51 > > 14 11 Mike Seman Sr Hinsdale (Central) > > 14:51 > > 15 12 Greg Targosz Jr Lockport (Twp.) > > 14:52 > > 16 13 Andy Janssen Jr Naperville (Central) > > 14:52 > > 17 Joe ZeibertSr Lombard (Glenbard East) > > 14:54 > > 18 Jeremy Borling Sr Orland Park (Sandburg) > > 14:55 > > 19 14 Nick Setta Jr Lockport (Twp.) > > 14:55 > > > > Ill. H.S. XC State meet 1998 (3M) > > > > 11 Jorge Torres Sr Wheeling > > 14:00 > > 22 Donald SageJr Elmhurst (York) > > 14:16 > > 33 Edwardo Torres Sr Wheeling > > 14:24 > > 4 Chris Siemers Sr Bensenville (Fenton) > > 14:35 > > 54 Andy Janssen Sr Naperville (Central) > > 14:38 > > 65 Ryan Teising Jr Naperville (Central) > > 14:41 > > 76 Mike Cropper Sr Hoffman Estates (Conant) > > 14:41 > > 8 Brad Bennett Sr Hoffman Estates (H.S.) > > 14:42 > > 97 Nathan Purcell Sr Salem > > 14:44 > > 10 Juan OrtegaSr Berwyn-Cicero (Morton) > > 14:49 > > 118 Nicholas Setta Sr Lockport (Twp.) > > 14:52 > > > > "Bloomquist, Bret" wrote: > > >
Re: t-and-f: Long jump with a flip
So do you think we should add a long jump flip competition to our Greater Boston Invitational on Jan 19, 2003 at the Harvard indoor track? What would happen if we did so? Tom Derderian, GBTC - Original Message - From: "P N Heidenstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: t-and-f: Long jump with a flip > > Some more, for those interested in a little US/NZ history. > > When John Delamere jumped 25' 6"3/4 at the 1974 Pacific > Conference meet he tied with Randy Williams, the reigning > Olympic champ. He did not just wow the crowd; the officials > at the pit suddenly became speechless. John's best legal > jump otherwise (he cleared a windy 25' 9"1/2 in 1973) is > 7.53m, so you COULD say that the vault style improved > his distance by 10"1/4. > > John likes to be known these days as Tuariki John Delamere > because of his Maori ancestry. He joined the ITA circus in > 1975 and was amateured in 1982 after the change in the > IAAF's attitude to professionalism. Later he became a > Cabinet Minister, becoming only the second NZ track and > field champion to reach that rank. > > The first happened to be also a Maori and a LJ champion, > Te Rangi Hiroa alias Sir Peter Buck. Older scholars may > recall him as Professor of Anthropology at Yale. > > The only reason so far advanced for why the IAAF banned > the Flip was its supposed danger. But they allowed the HJ > Flop, which sometimes develops into a somersault, albeit > a reverse one, with similar or greater dangers. Moreover > the Flop had an enormous impact on HJ standards, surely > far greater than the O'Brien or Oldfield SP styles had, or the > Flip might have. Has anyone done a study to find more > clearly what effect the Flip might indeed have had? > > == > On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 > Garry Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip > > A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen > is pictured in the pages of T&FN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 > Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely > blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like > 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to > his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing > "safety issues." I think they were premature in so doing. > > I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. > > gh > > Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 > From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:57:36 -0500 (CDT) > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip > > > > Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: > > > >> I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical > >> improvement before it was banned. > > > > That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and > > when, and how far? > > > A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen > is pictured in the pages of T&FN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 > Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely > blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like > 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to > his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing > "safety issues." I think they were premature in so doing. > > I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. > > gh > >
t-and-f: Enough Already!!
Dear Listers, Here's the scenario: Two HS XS runners are dueling it out for a county championship. One runner makes a wrong move and runs "slightly" (@30 to 40 yards with 800m to go) off course. She eventually gets outrun (by a substantial distance) by the runner who stays on course and loses. Who's the winner? THE PERSON WHO CROSSED THE FINISH LINE FIRST IS THE WINNER, NEW JERSEY!! For the rest of that season and this entire 2002 season, the local papers, writers, and prognosticators have made the kid who won feel like a LOSER. At this point, I'm tired of it. Why should a child (a frosh) have to pick up a paper or hear people speak of her as a loser? The losing athlete herself is continually quoted in the paper and takes no responsibility for her loss. What about the irresponsible coach and athlete on the losing side not going over the course before the race to make sure she knew where the course ended for this particular race? Fate has it that the frosh winner from last year has been injured and could not adequately defend her titles and she's mature enough not to make any excuses about it. The individual who lost last year is "undefeated" (no real comp to this point, eg. sub- 20:00 runners) and is having a successful year. In my eyes, whether her fault or not, she's not a winner. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
I saw Setta in H.S.; firmly convinced he could have broken 1:50 for 800 if he concentrated on running. Combining this with his jumping ability... Anyway... is Setta still involved in track? It would be quite a shame if he isn't and only plays football. --- Mike Prizy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Nick Setta, 5-11/177, Notre Dame kicker might still make for a good > candidate for your running > pentathlon. I always thought Setta could have potentially been a > great decathlete, but I'm not sure > if he ever did the PV. But the way he has been kicking this year, > he might as well try it. > > Just read through his stats and look at some of the people he ran > against in high school. > > In high school, he would run XC meets Saturday morning and would > then be driven to where his school > was playing that day's football game. What could he have done if he > concentrated on running? > > http://und.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/setta_nicholas00.html > > (Part of his football bio at ND) > > ...hit the crossbar on 72-yard field goal attempt . . . kicked > Illinois state record 59-yard field > goal as sophomore in '96 vs. Bloom . . . averaged 46.7 yards per > punt as junior, with 27 of 64 > kickoffs going for touchbacks . . . > > ...won four letters in both cross country and track and field . . . > finished sixth in Illinois state > track and field meet in high jump as junior and also ranked as top > hurdler . . . four-time team > captain and MVP in both cross country and track . . . had bests of > 1:53.4 (???) in 800 meters, 3:59 > in 1500 meters, and 6-10 in high jump . . . finished 11th in > Illinois state cross country meet in > '98, fifth in '97 and helped Lockport to Illinois state cross > country crowns in '96 and '97 . . .. . > > > > http://www.ihsa.org/activity/trb/1998-99/2result2.htm#Event12 > > 800-Meter Run - Ill. H.S. state final 1999 > > Final Heat > > 1 Nicholas Setta (Sr.), Lockport (Twp.) 1:52.24 > 2 Jon Dreher (Sr.), Winnetka (New Trier) 1:52.65 > 3 Rob Hulick (Jr.), Hinsdale (Central) 1:53.01 > 4 Eric Duda (Sr.), Carol Stream (Glenbard North) 1:53.73 > 5 Mike Lewis (Jr.), Cahokia 1:53.78 > > > Ill. H.S. XC State meet 1997 (3M) > > 1. Lockport (Twp.) - Setta's team >12 14 19 26 63 (125)(135) = 134 > 2. Elmhurst (York) - Sage's team > 2 23 28 32 50 (66)(183) = 135 > 3. Wheeling - Torres brothers' team > 16 31 57 70 (142)(149) = 165 > > (Record is Craig Virgin - 13:50) > 11 Jorge Torres Jr Wheeling > 14:15 > 22 Donald SageSo Elmhurst (York) > 14:22 > 3 Adam Wallace Sr Deerfield > 14:30 > 4 Mark Pilja Sr Naperville (North) > 14:32 > 53 Juan OrtegaJr Berwyn-Cicero (Morton) > 14:34 > 64 Jonathan Berning Sr Chicago (Marist) > 14:35 > 75 Nathan Purcell Jr Salem > 14:36 > 86 Ed Torres Jr Wheeling > 14:39 > 97 Arturo Cabarl Sr Bensenville (Fenton) > 14:43 > 108 Onecimo GuerecaSr Chicago (Kennedy) > 14:49 > 11 Robert Breit Sr Skokie (Niles North) > 14:49 > 129 Jason Van Swol Sr New Lenox (Lincoln-Way) > 14:50 > 13 10 Chris Siemers Jr Bensenville (Fenton) > 14:51 > 14 11 Mike Seman Sr Hinsdale (Central) > 14:51 > 15 12 Greg Targosz Jr Lockport (Twp.) > 14:52 > 16 13 Andy Janssen Jr Naperville (Central) > 14:52 > 17 Joe ZeibertSr Lombard (Glenbard East) > 14:54 > 18 Jeremy Borling Sr Orland Park (Sandburg) > 14:55 > 19 14 Nick Setta Jr Lockport (Twp.) > 14:55 > > Ill. H.S. XC State meet 1998 (3M) > > 11 Jorge Torres Sr Wheeling > 14:00 > 22 Donald SageJr Elmhurst (York) > 14:16 > 33 Edwardo Torres Sr Wheeling > 14:24 > 4 Chris Siemers Sr Bensenville (Fenton) > 14:35 > 54 Andy Janssen Sr Naperville (Central) > 14:38 > 65 Ryan Teising Jr Naperville (Central) > 14:41 > 76 Mike Cropper Sr Hoffman Estates (Conant) > 14:41 > 8 Brad Bennett Sr Hoffman Estates (H.S.) > 14:42 > 97 Nathan Purcell Sr Salem > 14:44 > 10 Juan OrtegaSr Berwyn-Cicero (Morton) > 14:49 > 118 Nicholas Setta Sr Lockport (Twp.) > 14:52 > > "Bloomquist, Bret" wrote: > > > I'd like to see a running pentathlon: 100, 400, 800, 1,
t-and-f: Long jump with a flip
Some more, for those interested in a little US/NZ history. When John Delamere jumped 25' 6"3/4 at the 1974 Pacific Conference meet he tied with Randy Williams, the reigning Olympic champ. He did not just wow the crowd; the officials at the pit suddenly became speechless. John's best legal jump otherwise (he cleared a windy 25' 9"1/2 in 1973) is 7.53m, so you COULD say that the vault style improved his distance by 10"1/4. John likes to be known these days as Tuariki John Delamere because of his Maori ancestry. He joined the ITA circus in 1975 and was amateured in 1982 after the change in the IAAF's attitude to professionalism. Later he became a Cabinet Minister, becoming only the second NZ track and field champion to reach that rank. The first happened to be also a Maori and a LJ champion, Te Rangi Hiroa alias Sir Peter Buck. Older scholars may recall him as Professor of Anthropology at Yale. The only reason so far advanced for why the IAAF banned the Flip was its supposed danger. But they allowed the HJ Flop, which sometimes develops into a somersault, albeit a reverse one, with similar or greater dangers. Moreover the Flop had an enormous impact on HJ standards, surely far greater than the O'Brien or Oldfield SP styles had, or the Flip might have. Has anyone done a study to find more clearly what effect the Flip might indeed have had? == On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 Garry Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of T&FN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing "safety issues." I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:57:36 -0500 (CDT) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip > > Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: > >> I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical >> improvement before it was banned. > > That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and > when, and how far? > A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of T&FN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing "safety issues." I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh
