Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
While these two didn't go 1 and 11, the Pons twins(Chan and Corby) are my favorite NCAA brothers. Despite the fact that neither ever qualified for Kinney/Footlocker, they finished 18(Chan) and 29(Corby) in Bloomington in 1999. Chan did this while racing the last 5 miles with only one shoe. If he had kept both shoes on, I can say without doubt or further qualification that he would have finished in the top 10. Robbie Howell
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
From: Robert J Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Robert J Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:50:40 -0500 (EST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: tf list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Resent-From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-To: e. garry hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:38:59 -0800 While these two didn't go 1 and 11, the Pons twins(Chan and Corby) are my favorite NCAA brothers. Despite the fact that neither ever qualified for Kinney/Footlocker, they finished 18(Chan) and 29(Corby) in Bloomington in 1999. Chan did this while racing the last 5 miles with only one shoe. If he had kept both shoes on, I can say without doubt or further qualification that he would have finished in the top 10. Robbie Howell Hey, thanks for the addition: that now makes 7 sets of brothers I know of who have totalled fewer than 50 points in the same NCAA. If anybody finds any others, please let me know. gh
t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:47:57 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: NCAA brothers How about the Floras (Bob John), Ledyard (CT) H.S. and I think both went to Northeastern. I remember one of them having a great race when the NCAA was at Lehigh, I think the year Salazar and Rono duked it out. Jim Gerweck Running Times John finished 41-21-17 his last three years, but Bob never cracked top 50.
RE: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
Did the McChesney's ever have two brothers race at the same NC's? -Buck, the former Duck -Original Message- From: ghill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:07 AM To: track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers From: Robert J Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Robert J Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:50:40 -0500 (EST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: tf list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Resent-From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-To: e. garry hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:38:59 -0800 While these two didn't go 1 and 11, the Pons twins(Chan and Corby) are my favorite NCAA brothers. Despite the fact that neither ever qualified for Kinney/Footlocker, they finished 18(Chan) and 29(Corby) in Bloomington in 1999. Chan did this while racing the last 5 miles with only one shoe. If he had kept both shoes on, I can say without doubt or further qualification that he would have finished in the top 10. Robbie Howell Hey, thanks for the addition: that now makes 7 sets of brothers I know of who have totalled fewer than 50 points in the same NCAA. If anybody finds any others, please let me know. gh
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
From: Jones, Carleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:02:25 -0700 To: 'ghill' [EMAIL PROTECTED], track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Did the McChesney's ever have two brothers race at the same NC's? -Buck, the former Duck Probably--they were one of the combos I was specifically on the lookout for. Surprised to see that Bill's record wasn't up to his track-time qualifications: 28thin '77, 43rd in '79, 44th in '81. None of the bros ever made top 50. gh
t-and-f: Another pair of Bro pairs
(Not to be confused with a Swedish au pair) Wisconsin's Stintzis. Never quite ran in same year, but for best finishes Jim was 20th in '79, Joe 23rd in '82. Arkansas's Reinas: Roland 49 in '83, Reuben 18 in '87. I don't believe they crossed over, although they might have in '86.
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
What about the Donokowski (sp?) brothers at Michigan? ghill wrote: From: Jones, Carleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:02:25 -0700 To: 'ghill' [EMAIL PROTECTED], track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Did the McChesney's ever have two brothers race at the same NC's? -Buck, the former Duck Probably--they were one of the combos I was specifically on the lookout for. Surprised to see that Bill's record wasn't up to his track-time qualifications: 28thin '77, 43rd in '79, 44th in '81. None of the bros ever made top 50. gh -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
what about the Mastalirs? or the Plummers? (yes I know, sisters) At 09:12 AM 11/27/02 -0800, ghill wrote: From: Jones, Carleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:02:25 -0700 To: 'ghill' [EMAIL PROTECTED], track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Did the McChesney's ever have two brothers race at the same NC's? -Buck, the former Duck Probably--they were one of the combos I was specifically on the lookout for. Surprised to see that Bill's record wasn't up to his track-time qualifications: 28thin '77, 43rd in '79, 44th in '81. None of the bros ever made top 50. gh Keith Whitman Head Coach Cross Country/Track Field Muskingum College New Concord, Ohio http://www.muskingum.edu (740) 826-8018-Office (330) 677-4631-Home (740) 826-8300-Fax Galations 2:20
RE: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
Just to follow up on Garry's 1976 NCAA 1500 observations ... I am channeling my boss and cannot take credit for the anecdotes below. I'm told that the 1976 1500 meter final at the NCAAs was the one and only time that they only took 10 to the final (because of the narrow Penn track). Masback was outleaned for the final qualifying spot from his heat by Randall Markey, a Tasmanian who ran for Oregon. His recollection is that all the Americans that ran in the NCAA final (the foreigners were Coghlan, Waigwa, Markey, and more meaning that there were precious few Americans IN the final) ran personal bests and qualified for the Olympic Trials. Yours in turkey, cranberry and all that jazz, Jill Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone/fax: 508-695-0595 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ghill Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:07 PM To: track list Subject: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks A note that combines two disparate threads. Yesterday we were talking about the 3-generation Gibsons in NCs and I was hoping to find a place for middle-member Greg in the Cross, but couldn't, so apparently he was only (only!) a track competitor. In looking for his record I found that he competed three times, never made a final. In '76 he was 11th in his heat, beating Tom Byers. More interesting (to me at least) was looking up at the top end of his heat and seeing that 4th was one Craig Masback, in 3:42.9. This is germane because this was a *non-qualifying* time. Obviously the tracks were indeed much shorter then. That was the year that NCAA switched from 1500 to mile (bad choice, but that's a topic for another rant another time). Here's the stats for all the NCAA 1500s since. The Q is what the slowest qualifier ran to advance to the final (if no prelims, no Q listed). Note that Masback was faster than the slowest qualifier in '76, but he didn't advance because in those days--as god intended--place was more important than time. At any rate, note that his non-Q mark from a quarter-century ago would have made every final since that had a Q, save for one: 1976 (Philadelphia, June 5) (36 contestants, 9 finalists; Q3:43.44) 1977 (Champaign, June 4) (39 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.83) 1978 (Eugene, June 3) (47 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.83) 1979 (Champaign, June 2) (29 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.01) 1980 (Austin, June 7) (30 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.62] 1981 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (27 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.76) 1982 (Provo, June 5) (14 started, 13 finished) 1983 (Houston, June 4) (13 started and finished) 1984 (Eugene, June 2) (37 contestants, 14 finalists; Q3:43.80) (Austin, June 1) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.3) 1986 (Indianapolis, June 7) (10 started and finished) 1987 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (28 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.28) 1988 (Eugene, June 4) (13 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.71) 1989 (Provo, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.15) 1990 (Durham, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.28) 1991 (Eugene, June 1) (17 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.47) 1992 (Austin, June 6) (23 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.32) 1993 (New Orleans, June 5) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.59) 1994 (Boise, June 4) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.70) 1995 (Knoxville, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.52) 1996 (Eugene, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:42.39) 1997 (Bloomington, June 7) (18 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.43) 1998 (Amherst, June 6) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.03) 1999 (Boise, June 6) (10 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.38) 2000 (Durham, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.44) 2001 (Eugene, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.73) 2002 (Baton Rouge, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.19) gh (stats drawn from my someday-to-be-published-but-don't-hold-your-breath book, a statistical history of the NCAA Champs)
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
Keith Whitman wrote: or the Plummers? (yes I know, sisters) How about Monica and Regina Joyce? bob
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Computomarx Reply-To: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:49:34 -0600 To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers What about the Donokowski (sp?) brothers at Michigan? Careers didn't overlap: Bill 23rd in '75 (consistent: 24th in '77, 25th in '76!); Gerard 7th in '82. And while researching that, found the Treacys, who also didn't overlap: John 2nd in '77, Ray 19th in '80. gh
Re: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
From: USATF Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: USATF Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:05:36 -0500 To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks Just to follow up on Garry's 1976 NCAA 1500 observations ... I am channeling my boss and cannot take credit for the anecdotes below. I'm told that the 1976 1500 meter final at the NCAAs was the one and only time that they only took 10 to the final (because of the narrow Penn track). Masback was outleaned for the final qualifying spot from his heat by Randall Markey, a Tasmanian who ran for Oregon. His recollection is that all the Americans that ran in the NCAA final (the foreigners were Coghlan, Waigwa, Markey, and more meaning that there were precious few Americans IN the final) ran personal bests and qualified for the Olympic Trials. Yours in turkey, cranberry and all that jazz, Jill Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications As always, Craig's recollections are pretty good. Here's what the final looked like (only 9 men, not 10; Oregon '64, for some strange reason, was only a 10-man final): 1976 (Philadelphia, June 5) (36 contestants, 9 finalists; Q3:43.44) 1. Eamonn Coghlan' (Villanova)Sr3:37.01 (MR) 2. Wilson Waigwa' (UTEP)Jr3:37.26 3. Matt Centrowitz (Oregon)Jr3:37.29 4. Steve Lacy (Wisconsin)So3:38.52 5. Randall Markey' (Oregon)Jr3:39.98 6. Rick Musgrave (Colorado)Sr3:40.66 7. Jeff Jirele (Illinois)Jr3:40.82 8. Tom Duits (Wn Michigan)So3:41.21 Three heats to qualify 3 each. I: Coghlan (3:43.16), Waigwa (3:43.41) and Lacy (3:43.44); Ed Arriola misses at 3:43.50. II: Duits (3:42.41), Musgrave (3:42.52) and Markey (3:42.54); Masback (3:42.94) is out in 4th. III: Centrowitz (3:40.02), Kane (3:41.48) and Jirele (3:41.80); Ray Flynn (3;43.80) is out in 4th. Back in 8th was one Steve Scott (3:46.2h). gh
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
From: Keith Whitman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:49:48 -0500 To: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED], track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers what about the Mastalirs? Eric 51st in '89, no sign of Mark anywhere in the top 50. or the Plummers? (yes I know, sisters) I didn't do any women's research, not because of any antipathy towards that side of the sport, but because for me it was a fun historical project, startign in '38, but starting at '82 for the women just isn't history for me; that's recent news. Gh
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
How about this year, the O'Neils from Yale, 2nd and 13th!! Dan Doherty Original Message: - From: Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:16:31 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Keith Whitman wrote: or the Plummers? (yes I know, sisters) How about Monica and Regina Joyce? bob mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
Bill was in great shape in '81, I saw him tear up the Stanford golf course at Western Regionals, taking first. But alas, he was suffering from achilles troubles, was clearly in discomfort afterwards, and had the poor showing at NCAAS. Brian Brian McGuire - Original Message - From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:12 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers From: Jones, Carleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:02:25 -0700 To: 'ghill' [EMAIL PROTECTED], track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers Did the McChesney's ever have two brothers race at the same NC's? -Buck, the former Duck Probably--they were one of the combos I was specifically on the lookout for. Surprised to see that Bill's record wasn't up to his track-time qualifications: 28thin '77, 43rd in '79, 44th in '81. None of the bros ever made top 50. gh
t-and-f: Fwd: Malmo and XC
ps--in checking for a Greg finish, I did note that Malmo was 39th as a soph, 17th as a junior, 20th as a senior. Do the results say The runner formerly known as.? ;^) Richard McCann
RE: t-and-f: Fwd: Malmo and XC
1974 was the first year of back-door All-Americas. I was the last runner to make the cut (39th, 25th American) - executing my evil plan perfectly. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:03 PM To: TFMail List Cc: Garry Hill; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Fwd: Malmo and XC ps--in checking for a Greg finish, I did note that Malmo was 39th as a soph, 17th as a junior, 20th as a senior. Do the results say The runner formerly known as.? ;^) Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
How about the Mortimer brothers? And on the distaff side: Nenna and Shola Lynch? Kurt Bray _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
Also from NC State, Mary and Julie Shea. I don't know their best finishes, except that they were good. Ed Prytherch
t-and-f: recommended reading
I've just finished reading one of the better tf biographies - No Finish Line by Marla Runyan. Bookcloseouts.com have it for $3.30. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: recommended reading
That was a good one. I just got through reading Derek Claytons Run to the Top and an article from the November 10, 1958 Sports Illustrated. On the cover: The Amazing Herb Elliott- The torture of success to remain amateur, the man who makes him run (Percy Cerutty) The size of the magazines. The quality of black and white film and the overall writing qualities of these guys were incredibleI have not read the quality work in today's magazine articles that I have read in the last three old SI articles that I won on e-bay about Edelen, Landy and now Elliott...of course the articles about running in these old SSI's seemed to be much more in depth than the skim overs you read today.exept maybe in TF newsgreat articles. - Original Message - From: Ed Marsha Prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TFMail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Nesbit, Joan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: t-and-f: recommended reading I've just finished reading one of the better tf biographies - No Finish Line by Marla Runyan. Bookcloseouts.com have it for $3.30. Ed Prytherch
Re: t-and-f: recommended reading
Jim Ryun was on the radio in Chicago last week promoting his book, something Heroes. Ed Marsha Prytherch wrote: I've just finished reading one of the better tf biographies - No Finish Line by Marla Runyan. Bookcloseouts.com have it for $3.30. Ed Prytherch
t-and-f: IAAF: Sotomayor hinted at doping guilt
Agence France-Presse PARIS (November 27, 2002 1:20 p.m. EST) - High jump world record holder Javier Sotomayor gave a veiled hint that he retired because he had taken banned substances, the Cuban athletics federation told world governing body IAAF, it emerged on Wednesday. About a month ago the Cuban federation sent us a letter to inform us that Sotomayor was retiring and that he was aware that there were banned substances in his body, International Association of Athletics Federations spokesman Nick Davies told AFP. The 35-year-old 1992 Olympic champion, who retired from competition in October last year, failed a doping test twice - in 1999 and 2001. Sotomayor won an Olympic silver medal in 2000 after having a two-year suspension reduced to one for testing positive for cocaine at the 1999 PanAmerican Games. The athlete denied taking the anabolic steroid nandrolone for which he tested positive at a meet in Tenerife, Spain in July 2001. http://www.sportserver.com/track_field/story/648828p-4887572c.html
Re: t-and-f: Re: NCAA brothers
I'm not sure the years they matriculated, but I suspect it was in the AIAW years, before the NCAA took over. Like GH, that is so recent for me that it's not much of a history. Randy On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:09:37 -0500, you wrote: Also from NC State, Mary and Julie Shea. I don't know their best finishes, except that they were good. Ed Prytherch
