RE: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
Just to follow up on Garry's 1976 NCAA 1500 observations ... I am channeling my boss and cannot take credit for the anecdotes below. I'm told that the 1976 1500 meter final at the NCAAs was the one and only time that they only took 10 to the final (because of the narrow Penn track). Masback was outleaned for the final qualifying spot from his heat by Randall Markey, a Tasmanian who ran for Oregon. His recollection is that all the Americans that ran in the NCAA final (the foreigners were Coghlan, Waigwa, Markey, and more meaning that there were precious few Americans IN the final) ran personal bests and qualified for the Olympic Trials. Yours in turkey, cranberry and all that jazz, Jill Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone/fax: 508-695-0595 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of ghill Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:07 PM To: track list Subject: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks A note that combines two disparate threads. Yesterday we were talking about the 3-generation Gibsons in NCs and I was hoping to find a place for middle-member Greg in the Cross, but couldn't, so apparently he was only (only!) a track competitor. In looking for his record I found that he competed three times, never made a final. In '76 he was 11th in his heat, beating Tom Byers. More interesting (to me at least) was looking up at the top end of his heat and seeing that 4th was one Craig Masback, in 3:42.9. This is germane because this was a *non-qualifying* time. Obviously the tracks were indeed much shorter then. That was the year that NCAA switched from 1500 to mile (bad choice, but that's a topic for another rant another time). Here's the stats for all the NCAA 1500s since. The Q is what the slowest qualifier ran to advance to the final (if no prelims, no Q listed). Note that Masback was faster than the slowest qualifier in '76, but he didn't advance because in those days--as god intended--place was more important than time. At any rate, note that his non-Q mark from a quarter-century ago would have made every final since that had a Q, save for one: 1976 (Philadelphia, June 5) (36 contestants, 9 finalists; Q3:43.44) 1977 (Champaign, June 4) (39 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.83) 1978 (Eugene, June 3) (47 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.83) 1979 (Champaign, June 2) (29 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.01) 1980 (Austin, June 7) (30 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.62] 1981 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (27 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.76) 1982 (Provo, June 5) (14 started, 13 finished) 1983 (Houston, June 4) (13 started and finished) 1984 (Eugene, June 2) (37 contestants, 14 finalists; Q3:43.80) (Austin, June 1) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.3) 1986 (Indianapolis, June 7) (10 started and finished) 1987 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (28 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.28) 1988 (Eugene, June 4) (13 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.71) 1989 (Provo, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.15) 1990 (Durham, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.28) 1991 (Eugene, June 1) (17 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.47) 1992 (Austin, June 6) (23 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.32) 1993 (New Orleans, June 5) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.59) 1994 (Boise, June 4) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.70) 1995 (Knoxville, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.52) 1996 (Eugene, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:42.39) 1997 (Bloomington, June 7) (18 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.43) 1998 (Amherst, June 6) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.03) 1999 (Boise, June 6) (10 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.38) 2000 (Durham, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.44) 2001 (Eugene, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.73) 2002 (Baton Rouge, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.19) gh (stats drawn from my someday-to-be-published-but-don't-hold-your-breath book, a statistical history of the NCAA Champs)
Re: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
From: USATF Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: USATF Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:05:36 -0500 To: track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks Just to follow up on Garry's 1976 NCAA 1500 observations ... I am channeling my boss and cannot take credit for the anecdotes below. I'm told that the 1976 1500 meter final at the NCAAs was the one and only time that they only took 10 to the final (because of the narrow Penn track). Masback was outleaned for the final qualifying spot from his heat by Randall Markey, a Tasmanian who ran for Oregon. His recollection is that all the Americans that ran in the NCAA final (the foreigners were Coghlan, Waigwa, Markey, and more meaning that there were precious few Americans IN the final) ran personal bests and qualified for the Olympic Trials. Yours in turkey, cranberry and all that jazz, Jill Jill M. Geer USATF Director of Communications As always, Craig's recollections are pretty good. Here's what the final looked like (only 9 men, not 10; Oregon '64, for some strange reason, was only a 10-man final): 1976 (Philadelphia, June 5) (36 contestants, 9 finalists; Q3:43.44) 1. Eamonn Coghlan' (Villanova)Sr3:37.01 (MR) 2. Wilson Waigwa' (UTEP)Jr3:37.26 3. Matt Centrowitz (Oregon)Jr3:37.29 4. Steve Lacy (Wisconsin)So3:38.52 5. Randall Markey' (Oregon)Jr3:39.98 6. Rick Musgrave (Colorado)Sr3:40.66 7. Jeff Jirele (Illinois)Jr3:40.82 8. Tom Duits (Wn Michigan)So3:41.21 Three heats to qualify 3 each. I: Coghlan (3:43.16), Waigwa (3:43.41) and Lacy (3:43.44); Ed Arriola misses at 3:43.50. II: Duits (3:42.41), Musgrave (3:42.52) and Markey (3:42.54); Masback (3:42.94) is out in 4th. III: Centrowitz (3:40.02), Kane (3:41.48) and Jirele (3:41.80); Ray Flynn (3;43.80) is out in 4th. Back in 8th was one Steve Scott (3:46.2h). gh
t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
A note that combines two disparate threads. Yesterday we were talking about the 3-generation Gibsons in NCs and I was hoping to find a place for middle-member Greg in the Cross, but couldn't, so apparently he was only (only!) a track competitor. In looking for his record I found that he competed three times, never made a final. In '76 he was 11th in his heat, beating Tom Byers. More interesting (to me at least) was looking up at the top end of his heat and seeing that 4th was one Craig Masback, in 3:42.9. This is germane because this was a *non-qualifying* time. Obviously the tracks were indeed much shorter then. That was the year that NCAA switched from 1500 to mile (bad choice, but that's a topic for another rant another time). Here's the stats for all the NCAA 1500s since. The Q is what the slowest qualifier ran to advance to the final (if no prelims, no Q listed). Note that Masback was faster than the slowest qualifier in '76, but he didn't advance because in those days--as god intended--place was more important than time. At any rate, note that his non-Q mark from a quarter-century ago would have made every final since that had a Q, save for one: 1976 (Philadelphia, June 5) (36 contestants, 9 finalists; Q3:43.44) 1977 (Champaign, June 4) (39 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.83) 1978 (Eugene, June 3) (47 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.83) 1979 (Champaign, June 2) (29 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.01) 1980 (Austin, June 7) (30 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.62] 1981 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (27 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.76) 1982 (Provo, June 5) (14 started, 13 finished) 1983 (Houston, June 4) (13 started and finished) 1984 (Eugene, June 2) (37 contestants, 14 finalists; Q3:43.80) (Austin, June 1) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.3) 1986 (Indianapolis, June 7) (10 started and finished) 1987 (Baton Rouge, June 6) (28 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.28) 1988 (Eugene, June 4) (13 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.71) 1989 (Provo, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.15) 1990 (Durham, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:46.28) 1991 (Eugene, June 1) (17 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.47) 1992 (Austin, June 6) (23 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.32) 1993 (New Orleans, June 5) (22 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.59) 1994 (Boise, June 4) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:48.70) 1995 (Knoxville, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.52) 1996 (Eugene, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:42.39) 1997 (Bloomington, June 7) (18 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.43) 1998 (Amherst, June 6) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:43.03) 1999 (Boise, June 6) (10 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:49.38) 2000 (Durham, June 3) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.44) 2001 (Eugene, June 2) (19 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:44.73) 2002 (Baton Rouge, June 1) (20 contestants, 12 finalists; Q3:45.19) gh (stats drawn from my someday-to-be-published-but-don't-hold-your-breath book, a statistical history of the NCAA Champs)
Re: t-and-f: Of Gibson and short tracks
More interesting (to me at least) was looking up at the top end of his heat and seeing that 4th was one Craig Masback, in 3:42.9. This is germane because this was a *non-qualifying* time. Obviously the tracks were indeed much shorter then. That was the year that NCAA switched from 1500 to mile (bad choice, but that's a topic for another rant another time). Wow! If that was indeed the year 'that NCAA switched from the 1500m to the mile, then I'm astonished that 3:42.9 wasn't fast enough to qualify, since that would have been a huge world record for the mile. And I knew that Craig was a talented athlete, but I had no idea Kurt Bray (who knows what you meant but couldn't resist) _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
