Re: [Tagging] Dancing school
On 18/08/2010 01:17, John Smith wrote: On 18 August 2010 08:25, Andreas Labresl...@lab.at wrote: I can't follow your argument here. A dancing school (or is ist called dance school? in which part of the English world?) is an amenity, is it not? The term amenity, if used in the vaguest form, can almost mean anything. And you do want a generic amenity icon? For what? For the category of various schools... of various trainings, clubs (dancing, bridge, sport, music)... ? or of various schools, primary, secondary... ? Even if dance schools share a part of they name with the scholar system, it is obvious that they are not in the same category, at least in France, and could not share the same icon. And the suggestion of adding a 'training' value to the amenities doesn't hurt me. -- FrViPofm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?
On 17 August 2010 22:13, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.netalan_mintz%2b...@earthlink.net wrote: At 2010-08-17 12:08, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I know that there are some bike lanes on the left side, but is there any real benefit to tagging cycleway:right=lane rather than cycleway=lane when you have a bike lane on the right side of a one-way street? Assuming you meant to add in a place where traffic keeps right, I would say no. Quite. It might be useful to make it explicit in order to help routing applications which don't know whether a road is in a country where you drive/cycle on the right or the left side of the road. Regards, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*
2010/8/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: There is a lot of amenity=fast_food places tagged, I wonder how many tag the cuisine properly. In this case the name/brand alone is usually significant for people to deduce the cuisine, I'm guessing a name like Bay City Bike (first result on Google) would kind of give the same information. so make a guess what Robben Wientjes (biggest in Berlin of it's kind) rent? While you might be interested in bike rental places, they aren't the most common type of rental place, and I don't see why we should have such a narrow view/approach to a common type of shop. a common type of shop like renting? Actually they all have the renting part in common, but it is really of no interest. We could also have shop=retail retail:food=yes/no retail:scissors=yes/no retail:bread=yes/no retail:ice_cream=yes retail:games=yes retail:cars=yes retail:foo=yes but we don't do it like this. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Any arguments against cycleway=sharrow? Steve I cannot say more than my previous message. In Europe, this thing is unambiguously tagged bicycle=designated. I proposed to put an additionnal sharrow=yes to make it more precise if you like. If you have a good argument against using well established tags which perfectly fit here, then you have to explain why you don't want to use them. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?
2010/8/17 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: At 2010-08-17 12:08, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I know that there are some bike lanes on the left side, but is there any real benefit to tagging cycleway:right=lane rather than cycleway=lane when you have a bike lane on the right side of a one-way street? Assuming you meant to add in a place where traffic keeps right, I would say no. I would say yes for the reason you give below: The way I understand it, cycleway=lane means bike lanes on both sides of a two-way road, or a bike lane on the right or left side of a one way road where traffic keeps right or left, respectively. If you say on onewaystreets cycleway=lane is the same as cycleway:right=lane, how would you tag a oneway street that has a bike-lane for both directions? And one that has 2 bikelanes, one for each direction (left and right)? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*
On 18 August 2010 19:07, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: There is a lot of amenity=fast_food places tagged, I wonder how many tag the cuisine properly. In this case the name/brand alone is usually significant for people to deduce the cuisine, I'm guessing a name like Bay City Bike (first result on Google) would kind of give the same information. so make a guess what Robben Wientjes (biggest in Berlin of it's kind) rent? Why would I be expected to know who they are when I'm half a world away, I could have named a dozen or so local rental companies you wouldn't know about as well. That said, someone close to the region most likely would, especially if they are the biggest in the region, or booked online before going to that part of the world, so the name alone would be sufficient. a common type of shop like renting? Actually they all have the renting part in common, but it is really of no interest. We could also have shop=retail retail:food=yes/no retail:scissors=yes/no retail:bread=yes/no retail:ice_cream=yes retail:games=yes retail:cars=yes retail:foo=yes You are comparing a subtype of shops (rentals) with all shops, this is hardly a realistic comparison. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Dancing school
2010/8/18 Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com: On 18/08/2010 01:17, John Smith wrote: On 18 August 2010 08:25, Andreas Labresl...@lab.at wrote: I can't follow your argument here. A dancing school (or is ist called dance school? in which part of the English world?) is an amenity, is it not? The term amenity, if used in the vaguest form, can almost mean anything. And you do want a generic amenity icon? For what? For the category of various schools... of various trainings, clubs (dancing, bridge, sport, music)... ? or of various schools, primary, secondary... ? Even if dance schools share a part of they name with the scholar system, it is obvious that they are not in the same category, at least in France, and could not share the same icon. And the suggestion of adding a 'training' value to the amenities doesn't hurt me. teaching would be another good word. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On 8/18/10 1:22 AM, Simon Biber wrote: In light of this, I don't think the arrow part is applicable world-wide. I suggest going with the name used for the Wikipedia article, Shared lane marking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_lane_marking Therefore the tagging could be cycleway=shared_lane i think cycleway=shared or shared_lane is useful, but more general than the sharrow usage. we have stretches of public road where the fact that it's a bike path is shown by posted signs, but there are no markings on the pavement whatsoever. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: i think cycleway=shared or shared_lane is useful, but more general than the sharrow usage. we have stretches of public road where the fact that it's a bike path is shown by posted signs, but there are no markings on the pavement whatsoever. richard It's not a cycleway, as others already said. You are replacing an access tag bicycle=yes/no/designated/etc by a physical descriptor tag cycleway=lane/track/etc. A sharrow is nothing else than a normal lane for cars with a bicycle painted on it. Almost all car lanes are shared with bicycles, it makes no sens to create a cycleway=shared or shared_lane if it is not separated from the normal car traffic : use the access tags for that please. Don't mix-up things that are enough complicated. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
I think that the term shared lane marking is much more understandable than sharrow. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows? From :mailto:simonbi...@yahoo.com.au Date :Wed Aug 18 00:22:59 America/Chicago 2010 In established practise, cycleway=lane means this way is a road which has a bicycle lane not this way is mainly for bicycles. However I see the point that the lane _itself_ is generally mainly for bicycles. We don't have the chevron arrows in Australia but we do have bicycle symbols painted on some streets. This has been used in some areas to indicate a local bike network, for example, the Ashfield Council's Local Street Bike Route Network. http://www.ashfield.nsw.gov.au/page/cycling.html In other areas it has been used to indicate to bicyclists the safest position to ride (avoiding dangers such as parked car doors opening, or cars overtaking without leaving enough space). http://www.yeatesit.biz/transfiles/BrisbaneAndYellowBikesGuide.pdf In light of this, I don't think the arrow part is applicable world-wide. I suggest going with the name used for the Wikipedia article, Shared lane marking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_lane_marking Therefore the tagging could be cycleway=shared_lane ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Simon Biber simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote: In established practise, cycleway=lane means this way is a road which has a bicycle lane not this way is mainly for bicycles. However I see the point that the lane _itself_ is generally mainly for bicycles. Yes, that's what I mean. By the way, cycleway=lane means this way has a lane which is a cycleway. As opposed to highway=cycleway, which means this way is a cycleway. Cycleway in turn means mainly/exclusively for bicycles. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On 18/08/2010 12:55, Pieren wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i think cycleway=shared or shared_lane is useful, but more general than the sharrow usage. we have stretches of public road where the fact that it's a bike path is shown by posted signs, but there are no markings on the pavement whatsoever. richard It's not a cycleway, as others already said Oh dear, more options than answers. Does someone have a website description, such as local authority or cycling organization? Cheers Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Another tagging attribute for park benches?
amenity=bench http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/New_benches_are_a_pain_in_the New tag attributes toll=yes spikes=yes to go with - color= material= backrest=yes/no seats= ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On 18/08/2010 05:33, Alan Millar wrote: Any arguments against cycleway=sharrow? That is, just as you can have cycleway=track (100% dedicated cycleway) and cycleway=no (0% dedicated cycleway), I think you can have all the points in the middle. A sharrow is not a cycleway, but might be 20% a cycleway, so cycleway=sharrow is a good way of tagging it, IMHO. Anyone agree? I agree. The highway tag always designates the primary usage. I absolutely disagree with that statement. The highway tag is used to define the *classification* of a way, not the primary usage, whatever that means. For instance, in the UK you could have highway=trunk. Motorized vehicles, bicycles pedestrians are all allowed to use that way. Even though cars maybe the majority users, they *all* have equal rights to use it. Cheers Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 18/08/2010 05:33, Alan Millar wrote: I agree. The highway tag always designates the primary usage. I absolutely disagree with that statement. The highway tag is used to define the *classification* of a way, not the primary usage, whatever that means. For instance, in the UK you could have highway=trunk. Motorized vehicles, bicycles pedestrians are all allowed to use that way. Even though cars maybe the majority users, they *all* have equal rights to use it. A better example would be a cul-de-sac that provides access to one driveway and the end of a popular bike trail. Even though there will be more bikes than cars using the road, we still tag it highway=residential. (It's also worth noting Alan's unstated assumption that most values of highway imply motor vehicle use; in reality most of the specific values are geared towards importance in a motor vehicle network, but none of them says anything about the primary use.) Perhaps it's best to think of the cycleway tag as a newspeak term for anything cycle-related, whether properly called a cycleway. A street with an unmarked narrow strip becomes a cycleway=lane when signs are posted or symbols are painted. A street becomes a cycleway=sharrow when symbols are painted. It might have been better had we used cycle rather than cycleway as the tag, but we're probably stuck. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Vacant shop tagging...
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 6:48 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think that this is a good idea. An empty shop is still a shop, so shop=no is simply wrong. IMHO, for the scope of OSM (producing maps), a vacant shop, a closed shop, a non-shop, a shop that's actually an apartment are all the same thing. I think you have to draw the line somewhere. (With that, I'm out.) Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Vacant shop tagging...
2010/8/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 6:48 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think that this is a good idea. An empty shop is still a shop, so shop=no is simply wrong. IMHO, for the scope of OSM (producing maps) what kind of maps? You never know what people are going to do, so out of scope is probably not a good argument. , a vacant shop, a closed shop, a non-shop, a shop that's actually an apartment are all the same thing. -1, an appartment and a vacant shop shouldn't get the same tags. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] mapnik tags used
hi, does anyone have a complete list of what osm tags that mapnik currently looks at and renders? thanks, sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] mapnik tags used
I'm glad you asked: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/user:Stevage/tagsupport Not just Mapnik, but Osmarender, Kosmos, and presets for several editors. Steve On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: hi, does anyone have a complete list of what osm tags that mapnik currently looks at and renders? thanks, sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Vacant shop tagging...
On 16/08/2010 11:11, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/8/16 Craig Wallacecraig...@fastmail.fm: On 15/08/2010 22:30, John Smith wrote: I'm not sure this is the best way to do things, what do others think? If its vacant, then its not a shop, so shouldn't be tagged as such. IMHO a shop is a shop because it is officially commercial space (and not residential), it has a separate entrance (usually from the street), it has appropriate windows, etc. Of course there might be exceptions, but I think you get it. I disagree. A shop is by definition a place selling products or services. And if its empty its not doing that. Yes, it might still be commercial space, so within an area of landuse=retail or whatever, but its not a shop. ie use a separate namespace, so tag it something like disused:shop=yes Then it can be easily ignored by applications that just want to show currently existing shops, or rendered differently etc. that's a good idea as well, and very versatile. Yes, plus it would allow tagging other disused things. eg disused:amenity= for things like cafes, pubs, postboxes, phoneboxes etc, which I think would be useful. Or you could tag what sort of disused shop it is (or was). eg disused:shop=supermarket or whatever. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
