Re: [Tagging] Exclusive access rights
Ok, so what you guys are saying is that http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Restrictions is wrong on the description of motor_vehicles. Fine to me, but I would appreciate an improvement of that page then. How can that be achieved? 2012/10/31 Philip Barnes > ** > On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 18:56 +0100, Johan C wrote: > > I don't think I understand both responses (Georg/Martin). Why should a hgv > and a psv use 'a kind of' motor_vehicle? According to the map features > motor_vehicle is used for: 'Access permission for motor cars and > motorcycles.' > > A bus or a truck is not one of these two types. If I put > 'motor_vehicle=no' on any highway, then psv and hgv are still allowed to > drive on that highway. Am I misreading the map features? > > > In terms of road signs, the stunt motorcycle sign ( no motor vehicles ) > includes buses and hgvs. That is the way I would certainly see it and the > wiki seems to agree. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_619.svg > > If buses are allowed, then there will be a plate below saying "except > buses". > > It is rare to prohibit hgvs as such, the way this is achieved is by weight > or length. The most common is to prohibit vehicles over 7.5t, the historic > breakpoint between a vehicle that could be driven on a car license and one > requiring a hgv licence. At some point that weight was reduced, not sure > what to or when. I can still drive a 7.5t truck due to when I passed my > test. > > Phil > > > > > 2012/10/31 Martin Vonwald > > 2012/10/31 OSM : > > > I am sorry to disagree, but if hgv and psv use a kind of > motor_vehicle, they > > are still not allowed on the rightmost lane then ... according to the > > tagging. > > > > Georg > > > I have to agree with Georg... of course unless the lanes are > exclusively for horse-drawn cabs or carriages ;-) > > Martin > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing > listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Exclusive access rights
On Wed, 2012-10-31 at 18:56 +0100, Johan C wrote: > I don't think I understand both responses (Georg/Martin). Why should a > hgv and a psv use 'a kind of' motor_vehicle? According to the map > features motor_vehicle is used for: 'Access permission for motor cars > and motorcycles.' > > A bus or a truck is not one of these two types. If I put > 'motor_vehicle=no' on any highway, then psv and hgv are still allowed > to drive on that highway. Am I misreading the map features? In terms of road signs, the stunt motorcycle sign ( no motor vehicles ) includes buses and hgvs. That is the way I would certainly see it and the wiki seems to agree. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_619.svg If buses are allowed, then there will be a plate below saying "except buses". It is rare to prohibit hgvs as such, the way this is achieved is by weight or length. The most common is to prohibit vehicles over 7.5t, the historic breakpoint between a vehicle that could be driven on a car license and one requiring a hgv licence. At some point that weight was reduced, not sure what to or when. I can still drive a 7.5t truck due to when I passed my test. Phil > > > 2012/10/31 Martin Vonwald > > 2012/10/31 OSM : > > > I am sorry to disagree, but if hgv and psv use a kind of > motor_vehicle, they > > are still not allowed on the rightmost lane then ... > according to the > > tagging. > > > > Georg > > > > I have to agree with Georg... of course unless the lanes are > exclusively for horse-drawn cabs or carriages ;-) > > Martin > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Exclusive access rights
Hi, The problem is the hierarchy of the access tags (see Land-based transportation in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Access): the tag vehicle=no implies motor_vehicle=no and e.g. bicycle=no, the tag motor_vehicle=no implies e.g. psv=no and goods=no, and goods=no implies hgv=no. At least that's the way I understand it. And yes, this is neither perfect nor always intuitive. What about a cycle rickshaw? It's definitively a psv but most definitively not a motor_vehicle. Of course there is this great sentence in the access article: "This hierarchy is different in each country." That's not making anything easier. I'll guess I have another look at the access 1.5 proposal which tries to clean up a little: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_restrictions_1.5 Martin Am 31.10.2012 um 18:56 schrieb Johan C : > I don't think I understand both responses (Georg/Martin). Why should a hgv > and a psv use 'a kind of' motor_vehicle? According to the map features > motor_vehicle is used for: 'Access permission for motor cars and > motorcycles.' > A bus or a truck is not one of these two types. If I put 'motor_vehicle=no' > on any highway, then psv and hgv are still allowed to drive on that highway. > Am I misreading the map features? > > 2012/10/31 Martin Vonwald > 2012/10/31 OSM : > > I am sorry to disagree, but if hgv and psv use a kind of motor_vehicle, they > > are still not allowed on the rightmost lane then ... according to the > > tagging. > > > > Georg > > I have to agree with Georg... of course unless the lanes are > exclusively for horse-drawn cabs or carriages ;-) > > Martin > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Exclusive access rights
I don't think I understand both responses (Georg/Martin). Why should a hgv and a psv use 'a kind of' motor_vehicle? According to the map features motor_vehicle is used for: 'Access permission for motor cars and motorcycles.' A bus or a truck is not one of these two types. If I put 'motor_vehicle=no' on any highway, then psv and hgv are still allowed to drive on that highway. Am I misreading the map features? 2012/10/31 Martin Vonwald > 2012/10/31 OSM : > > I am sorry to disagree, but if hgv and psv use a kind of motor_vehicle, > they > > are still not allowed on the rightmost lane then ... according to the > > tagging. > > > > Georg > > I have to agree with Georg... of course unless the lanes are > exclusively for horse-drawn cabs or carriages ;-) > > Martin > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag ref on motorway_link
> 2012/10/30 Colin Smale : >> There is also the >> "destination" tag set which covers the ref "as signposted", allowing the >> ref=* to reflect the actual administrative ID. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination > > If you mean by "destination tag set" the key destination:ref I'll > agree. But please don't put refs into destination. In the case of "ref" that's indeed exactly what I meant. Personally I also allow "destination" to override "name" in mkgmap so the routing instructions reflect the big signs in preference to the small signs. That's why I was speaking slightly more generically. Colin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Photo needed: Bus/PSV lane with time restriction
I already got an photo from Thomas, but I'll guess we could use some more for examples of conditional restrictions. Thanks in advance, Martin 2012/10/31 Philip Barnes : > Have not got one, but will be able to take some on Friday. > > > Phil > > -- > > > > Sent from my Nokia N9 > > > > > On 31/10/2012 9:50 Martin Vonwald wrote: > > Hi! > > For the wiki I'm looking for a signpost that dedicates a lane to > PSVs/buses at some specific time, i.e. a lane can be used by general > traffic except from xx:xx to yy:yy where it is dedicated to PSV only. > Searching through commons didn't yield any result. > > Does anyone has such a photo or can make one? > > regards, > Martin > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Photo needed: Bus/PSV lane with time restriction
Have not got one, but will be able to take some on Friday. Phil -- Sent from my Nokia N9 On 31/10/2012 9:50 Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! For the wiki I'm looking for a signpost that dedicates a lane to PSVs/buses at some specific time, i.e. a lane can be used by general traffic except from xx:xx to yy:yy where it is dedicated to PSV only. Searching through commons didn't yield any result. Does anyone has such a photo or can make one? regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Photo needed: Bus/PSV lane with time restriction
Hi! For the wiki I'm looking for a signpost that dedicates a lane to PSVs/buses at some specific time, i.e. a lane can be used by general traffic except from xx:xx to yy:yy where it is dedicated to PSV only. Searching through commons didn't yield any result. Does anyone has such a photo or can make one? regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag ref on motorway_link
2012/10/30 Colin Smale : > There is also the > "destination" tag set which covers the ref "as signposted", allowing the > ref=* to reflect the actual administrative ID. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination If you mean by "destination tag set" the key destination:ref I'll agree. But please don't put refs into destination. Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Exclusive access rights
2012/10/31 OSM : > I am sorry to disagree, but if hgv and psv use a kind of motor_vehicle, they > are still not allowed on the rightmost lane then ... according to the > tagging. > > Georg I have to agree with Georg... of course unless the lanes are exclusively for horse-drawn cabs or carriages ;-) Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
