Re: [Tagging] Substation proposal approved - and a suggestion for a post-vote change

2013-10-13 Thread Ole Nielsen / osm
 2013/10/12 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 2013/10/12 Ole Nielsen / osm on-...@xs4all.nl

 I propose to change the meaning of substation=distribution to be used
 only on substations at the last level of voltage transforming, thus the
 small street-level transformer kiosks etc supplied with medium voltage
 (typically 10-30 kV) and delivering low voltage power to households and
 small businesses.

 definitely +1

 IMHO the IEC are right with defining everything below 100kV as
 distribution, I wouldn't use this given term with a different meaning.

 I don't agree.

 Imagine you find several 90 kV and 63 kV lines in such a substation
 connected with busbars.
 Then, the operator can use this stuff to make power transit between lines
 of a given power level and use transformers to transit between both 90 kV
 and 63 kV.

 That's transmission and not distribution obviously and it's below 100 kV.

 Furthermore, we can't qualify of distribution voltage levels which
 accept
 industrial client feeding : CERN is connected to French 400 kV (and I hope
 everyone will agree 400 kV isn't distribution).

I surely wouldn't associate CERN with distribution. They may have their
own internal industrial distribution network but substation=industrial
is more appropriate for such internal facilities.

The idea behind transmission and distribution is to provide data
consumers a hint about the role of the substation without having to look
for the voltage tag (which may be missing or having multiple ;-separated
values). The 100 kV specified threshold is only a guideline and if the
mapper think that a 70 kV substation is mainly for transmission then it
may be indicated as such. Another example: 132/10 kV substations are not
uncommon in Denmark and they seem most appropriately to be considered
distribution stations.

Of course we are here talking about the final substations *for households
and small businesses* only being connected at the low voltage level, not
those feeding larger industrial customers at a higher voltage level.

I'm open to suggestions for alternatives to distribution. Martin
suggested local_distribution which is a bit long but otherwise a
possibility. Some other ideas: local or minor?. I am just looking for
a way to clearly distinguish those low voltage substations from other
substations.

BTW, transformer=distribution is currently defined as meaning a
transformer supplying low voltage!

Ole



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Re: [Tagging] Substation proposal approved - and a suggestion for a post-vote change

2013-10-13 Thread François Lacombe
2013/10/13 Ole Nielsen / osm on-...@xs4all.nl

 I surely wouldn't associate CERN with distribution. They may have their
 own internal industrial distribution network but substation=industrial
 is more appropriate for such internal facilities.


+1 substation=industrial


 The idea behind transmission and distribution is to provide data
 consumers a hint about the role of the substation without having to look
 for the voltage tag (which may be missing or having multiple ;-separated
 values). The 100 kV specified threshold is only a guideline and if the
 mapper think that a 70 kV substation is mainly for transmission then it
 may be indicated as such. Another example: 132/10 kV substations are not
 uncommon in Denmark and they seem most appropriately to be considered
 distribution stations.


The question is to know which is the target of that kind of hint and will
everyone will understand it as such ?

You're assuming 132 kV/10 kV substation are for distribution because you
find 10 kV inside but operator can use it a way OSM won't know.

That's why I'm tagging substation=transmission each time voltage goes above
30 kV inside the substation. IMHO


 I'm open to suggestions for alternatives to distribution. Martin
 suggested local_distribution which is a bit long but otherwise a
 possibility. Some other ideas: local or minor?. I am just looking for
 a way to clearly distinguish those low voltage substations from other
 substations.




 BTW, transformer=distribution is currently defined as meaning a
 transformer supplying low voltage!


I'm ok with that.



*François Lacombe*

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com
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